Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[Lord Protector]

In my opinion GT has alwas had very good physics for a console game ( the best for a long time till Assetto Corsa came on ps4) but now they need to go further with all these full sims coming to console

Problem is, GT has always been like this. The fact that the “full” sims are coming to consoles doesn’t mean much, at least not to PD, they have their vision of GT and they never cared about the competitors. They do things their way and they take no prisoners along the road

but yeah, GTS physics is a joke even against PC2, let alone ACC, iR, RRE, etc.

 

[snc]

Problem is, GT has always been like this. The fact that the “full” sims are coming to consoles doesn’t mean much, at least not to PD, they have their vision of GT and they never cared about the competitors. They do things their way and they take no prisoners along the road

but yeah, GTS physics is a joke even against PC2, let alone ACC, iR, RRE, etc.

ps2 and good physics? never seen other racing game with such a bizzare handling for some cars/setups

 

[Lord Protector]

ps2 and good physics? never seen other racing game with such a bizzare handling for some cars/setups

Never said it has good physics but definitely more advanced compared to GTS.

 

[snc]

Never said it has good physics but definitely more advanced compared to GTS.

More advanced ? - yes, better ? no

 

[Corsa]

Haven’t played GT Sport in a long time but last time I did the Fanatec felt very numb.

I would consider a PS5 for the next GT if they enhanced the road feel, added better FOV adjustability and toned down that dreaded tire squealing.

 

[Sage Ages]

Imagine expecting GT to be a full on sim.

 

[CarlosEVH]

Real rally physics, for god sake, they stuck with the same ****** driving on ice feeling since GT3

 

[Beezer215]

Imagine watching every other company surpass Gran Turismo in driving experience and game play and then being smug when someone else points it out and doesn't fall in line with the same GT bandwagon that still defends PD's half-assed attempts.

 

[Flashfire926]

I don't want the physics to be aiming for "100% realistic" as that would restrict the accessibility for people who play with a controller. That's what pc sims are for. It can certainly be improved further though.

 

[Suzumiya]

Here's what I want GT7 to improve on. Just because it isn't a "true sim" doesn't mean it has to drive badly or have huge things missing.

- Driving on the limit, tires have no nice sliding zone to tell you whether or not you're just over the limit, and it slows you down immediately.

- Aero model could use a huuuuge overhaul.

- Proper spring rates. Natural frequency is ???. More dampening settings.

- No more canned body roll.

 

[snc]

proper damage physics and visual for it (this ping pong physics in gt sport...)

 

[Beezer215]

- Proper spring rates. Natural frequency is ???. More dampening settings.

- No more canned body roll.

Natural frequency is what's used in the real world for racing. Going to spring rates would be a step backwards.
The natural frequency allows you to use comparable spring rates front and back without having to do calculations or just guess work.
Example: In a Front Engined car, the front springs are heavier to compensate for the engine but with that engines weight, they still need to be comparable to the rear springs which don't have this weight, therefore we match the front and rears natural frequency of spring rate.

 

[Suzumiya]

Natural frequency is what's used in the real world for racing. Going to spring rates would be a step backwards.
The natural frequency allows you to use comparable spring rates front and back without having to do calculations or just guess work.
Example: In a Front Engined car, the front springs are heavier to compensate for the engine but with that engines weight, they still need to be comparable to the rear springs which don't have this weight, therefore we match the front and rears natural frequency of spring rate.

Springs literally have their spring rate labelled on them. They have that one advantage but spring rates are still used way more often.

 

[Beezer215]

Well as long as it's literal.

 

[Sage Ages]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't work or try to improve the physics at all, but there seems to be an amount of people out there who are expecting the game to be something that it's not.


Can't say the "Real Driving Simulator" label is doing any favors either.

 

[Beezer215]

I'm not saying that they shouldn't work or try to improve the physics at all, but there seems to be an amount of people out there who are expecting the game to be something that it's not. Can't say the "Real Driving Simulator" label is doing any favors either.

I agree with that. I've had to come to terms with this. I thought Gran Turismo would continue on leading the way but in reality it kept doing what it's going to do and there's other titles that grabbed the reigns in the forefront of more realism. I then set out to build my PC and hone in my rig and away we go.
I really do hope they can bring it back with GT7 but a have this feeling with all the banter from an aging Kaz that he has this "been there, done that' attitude and that's disconcerting.

 

[Lord Protector]

Natural frequency is what's used in the real world for racing. Going to spring rates would be a step backwards.
The natural frequency allows you to use comparable spring rates front and back without having to do calculations or just guess work.
Example: In a Front Engined car, the front springs are heavier to compensate for the engine but with that engines weight, they still need to be comparable to the rear springs which don't have this weight, therefore we match the front and rears natural frequency of spring rate.

True but they should at least give us an option to switch to regulat units (lbft, nM, etc.) cause while hz makes it easier to compare the rates in a sense of weight distribution, you can’t read the actual spring rate, can you?

 

[Beezer215]

True but they should at least give us an option to switch to regulat units (lbft, nM, etc.) cause while hz makes it easier to compare the rates in a sense of weight distribution, you can’t read the actual spring rate, can you?

Right. You can't.
Which the more options the better I say. Even if it's just to tickle the fancy of knowing. More options, not one or the other or in the case of GTS, what they "allow" us to do.

 

[ArR29]

Real rally physics, for god sake, they stuck with the same ****** driving on ice feeling since GT3

Imo, they should skip rally racing altogether. Dirt physics isn't really their strongest suit.

 

[Titzon Toast]

Hopefully the ffb can be tweaked for the next game. It feels very wooden to me in GTS.

 

[Earth]

I see no reason why the game cannot feature physics as realistic as any simulator out there and still be mainstream.

For starters, GT Sport does not feature easy to drive physics at all, and it is mainstream. The physics may not be as realistic as some PC sims, but that does not mean pushing a Lamborghini Huracan GT3 is easy, at all. The only real difference I've noticed between GT Sport and lets say rFactor 2 physics is the threat of locking up the tires under braking in rFactor 2 which isnt really simulated in GT Sport. Otherwise the two games feel very similar to me.

Second, many PC sims are too difficult. Indycar champ Josef Newgarden recently talked about how the tires in iRacing are far less forgiving then tires in real life. Being difficult does not mean being realistic. Some people say if they dont feel on the edge of crashing every turn then the game is too easy. This isnt true.

Third, assists such as stability control and traction control can be turned on to make the driving experience easier. Theres no reason to dumb down the physics if assists can dumb them down for you.

Fourth, the 'simcade' part of GT is not primarily from the driving physics. Instead, the game's extremely forgiving collision physics and damage modeling are far more 'arcadey' then the driving model. If it werent for those things, I feel GT Sport would be very worthy of being called a sim-lite, and not sim-cade.

 

[zzz_pt]

Imagine watching every other company surpass Gran Turismo in driving experience and game play and then being smug when someone else points it out and doesn't fall in line with the same GT bandwagon that still defends PD's half-assed attempts.

GT is the best on a controller though. And that's important for sony/PD. Accessibility. That's why it sells several times more than "sims".

I would love a physics model closer to AC or rF2 but only of they still manage to make it fun on a controller.

AC is my fav sim and it's impossible with a controller. You don't have fun at all.

 

[Greek Driver]

Second, many PC sims are too difficult. Indycar champ Josef Newgarden recently talked about how the tires in iRacing are far less forgiving then tires in real life. Being difficult does not mean being realistic. Some people say if they dont feel on the edge of crashing every turn then the game is too easy. This isnt true.

Kazunori said a few things about this in 2017:

 

[Beezer215]

GT is the best on a controller though. And that's important for sony/PD. Accessibility. That's why it sells several times more than "sims".

I would love a physics model closer to AC or rF2 but only of they still manage to make it fun on a controller.

AC is my fav sim and it's impossible with a controller. You don't have fun at all.

You are right about that.
However, I work with people who use controllers when creating mods and they are doing just fine with them. They have found settings that work and make it enjoyable at least. Maybe come over to the AC forum and ask for some settings. I think someone can help you out.

 

[zzz_pt]

You are right about that.
However, I work with people who use controllers when creating mods and they are doing just fine with them. They have found settings that work and make it enjoyable at least. Maybe come over to the AC forum and ask for some settings. I think someone can help you out.

I use a wheel, but when I bought AC I still had only a controller cuz I was living in another country. I believe it's possible yes, maybe on PC? On the PS4 I don't know, but I believe you. I remember being atrocious and even when I managed to race, I was so much slower than normal.

 

[Tall Paul]

I remember when GT was first released using a controller was difficult. So I bought a logictec wheel and it was much better. As controllers advanced with more buttons it became much easier to use.

I run a controller now as I am a casual player. My biggest complaint is that there isn't a steering gear box ratio adjustment. Yes I know there is a sensitivity adjustment but that doesn't have the same effect. Having both options makes for better playability as the way I feel lower sensitivity just means you're at max input with the stick, and the steering isn't at full lock. Higher sensitivity puts steering at full lock with minimal input. Both situations aren't fun to drive. Maybe I just haven't found a happy medium.

That being said the other issues that have been brought up also need addressed. Getting penalized for being pitted is horrible.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Kazunori said a few things about this in 2017:

Honestly there is some truth in what Kazunori is trying to say, being a real racer himself and or driver in real life I can sort of understand why he would say its an easy thing to do or think that way. Ofcourse if it was the first time your driving a car, your not used to the feeling and it will be difficult. Once you practice enough and get the feel of the car you will get comfortable driving and or get the feel of it (easy).

Surely he would say he believes that they have achieved the realistic feel of driving with GT Sport because, GT Sport is a game that is easy to pick and drive. Since the days of GT5 to GT6 there have been some improvements and I also believe that they are in the correct path with GT Sport.

However on his comment that if its too difficult that means there is something wrong with the physics or process of development is what I partly disagree with. Sure if the game constantly spins you on the slightest turning than I can agree, but if you are driving too fast and coming into a corner while pushing it a little too much I am sure there are consequences to follow (spin out or worst case scenario: crashing).
To simplify what I mean For Example: Put a normal man in a road car and let him drive it to its limits, switch him over in a GT3 car and you will notice that despite the GT3 car being a more circuit based car with more grip he will surely spin out more often. Compare that same person with an experienced racer and than make your own conclusion. Thats kinda where I think the thought of driving should be easy is coming from because he is a driver himself and he knows what he is doing.

Gran Turismo does an amazing work in making every car you drive fairly easy, as a result simplifying some physical aspects of the cars behavior (be more forgiving) while still making it feel realistic. But other games that has a more complex physics simulation tend to as closely as possible recreate the same behavior from the respective car in play. As a result people with no racing or driving experience may find it harder to drive when compared to Gran Turismo's simplified physics.

I dont have alot of knowledge on the subject of physics but I can clearly tell that when comparing tuning capabilities of "hardcore simulations games" to GT, GT does come across as more forgiving with a much simplified physics simulation due to the lack of some physical aspects such as tire pressure adjustment.
All in all I just hope they can improve on physics for GT7 and include more tuning capabilities for the physics simulation.

 

[Azerach]

I dont have alot of knowledge on the subject of physics but I can clearly tell that when comparing tuning capabilities of "hardcore simulations games" to GT, GT does come across as more forgiving with a much simplified physics simulation due to the lack of some physical aspects such as tire pressure adjustment.

But that's why games like iRacing have fallen into the rabbit hole of harder=better or more features=better. Because games are simulating some aspects they want those aspects to be really really noticeable, like tyre temps skyrocketing after a small moment causing slippery behaviour.

It's a similar thing to video game graphics having features that are then shown to such degree that it's impossible to not notice the effect. Like with recent ray tracing demos there are suddenly puddles everywhere that reflect light at every angle like it's a mirror.

 

[slackboy72]

OP needs to explain what they need to improve rather than just say "step up the physics".

 

[xtro01]

I agree with you also OP this is one of the main item in my wishlist. Feeling road bumps also. Ideally it would be on par with hardcore sims for wheel drivers with a whole layer of assists to make it fun on a controller. I just hope the core physics are more in-depth to have the possibility of having the same driving experience as a rfactor or assetto corsa