Gran Turismo 7 Physics

[wheelhp]

Arguably the top five threads in the gt 7 forum right now are about how bad the game is for some reason or another, look at their IG page and its even worse, and the comments about physics are many there too.

Im hoping PD comes forward with some sort of public acknowledgement of the apparent flaws. Just turning the game on its apparent its broken when youre met with music rally and a really nonexhaustive list of the many problems the dev seem to have snapped up and are glancing over. Id rather they come forward day one and say hey guys, just pd stuff going on here, game is unfinished so you dont get to play more than a restricted part til we have done beta testing. Because really, can you even compare this gt in its current state to the standard that gt5/6 held when it came out. Its a freaking beta of gtsport 2.0

I'd definetly agree that PD have missed the mark with the launch of GT7, which makes the high score reviews out there a bit baffling. I reckon with updates they'll sort through the many issues as they did with past GT titles, but it will take a while.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

I'd definetly agree that PD have missed the mark with the launch of GT7, which makes the high score reviews out there a bit baffling. I reckon with updates they'll sort through the many issues as they did with past GT titles, but it will take a while.

Most people seem to only realize the major flaws after hours of playing. The menu books help distract you from them until they run out. Chances are most reviewers never got that far before writing their review and scoring it.

 

[Firestone]

Arguably the top five threads in the gt 7 forum right now are about how bad the game is for some reason or another, look at their IG page and its even worse, and the comments about physics are many there too.

Im hoping PD comes forward with some sort of public acknowledgement of the apparent flaws. Just turning the game on its apparent its broken when youre met with music rally and a really nonexhaustive list of the many problems the dev seem to have snapped up and are glancing over. Id rather they come forward day one and say hey guys, just pd stuff going on here, game is unfinished so you dont get to play more than a restricted part til we have done beta testing. Because really, can you even compare this gt in its current state to the standard that gt5/6 held when it came out. Its a freaking beta of gtsport 2.0

90% of the people complaining got caught off guard with the physics expecting something simpler, or are people jumping from other platforms who don't play the game feeling uncomfortable that they took a step in a more sim like direction, which also threatens the success of their own game. Don't want to be disrespectful, but most people complaining probably never took their car to the limit at autocross nor has had any track time. They fixed the oversteer issue. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the physics model. It's 80-90% there. I say this as someone who has track time and extensive time autoxing.

 

[Firestone]

where? when he did a full lock and full throttle donut? all I'm seeing is understeer and power slides no snap oversteer to see.


you didn't set the time stamp on the video. Automatic 86 came with open LSD as standard here in Australia, it'll be pretty hard to slide that car unless you flick it or pull the hand brake.

The time stamp is at 2:02.

You can see he goes into a snap. Little to no throttle. He mentioned that the factory came with the Torsen, but he may have misunderstood. Here in the states, auto comes with the Torsen. He has an aftermarket diff installed. Most of the control from the cars come with the stability management modulating brake and throttle opening to stabilize the car.

 

[driftnick13]

90% of the people complaining got caught off guard with the physics expecting something simpler, or are people jumping from other platforms who don't play the game feeling uncomfortable that they took a step in a more sim like direction, which also threatens the success of their own game.

Don't want to be disrespectful, but most people complaining probably never took their car to the limit at autocross nor has had any track time. They fixed the oversteer issue. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the physics model. It's 80-90% there. I say this as someone who has track time and extensive time autoxing.

Try drifting in GT7 and then come back and say its 80-90 there.

You can see he goes into a snap. Little to no throttle. He mentioned that the factory came with the Torsen, but he may have misunderstood. Here in the states, auto comes with the Torsen. He has an aftermarket diff installed. Most of the control from the cars come with the stability management modulating brake and throttle opening to stabilize the car.

Where can you see his throttle input? also I don't think anybody other then you would consider that snapping into a slide.

 

[graesand]

90% of the people complaining got caught off guard with the physics expecting something simpler, or are people jumping from other platforms who don't play the game feeling uncomfortable that they took a step in a more sim like direction, which also threatens the success of their own game. Don't want to be disrespectful, but most people complaining probably never took their car to the limit at autocross nor has had any track time. They fixed the oversteer issue. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the physics model. It's 80-90% there. I say this as someone who has track time and extensive time autoxing.

I like to play RBR NGP6, Ac, Acc, Ams 1-2, dirt2.0. When i had the chan e i even played iracing but my wallet couldnt let me. Emphasizing the word play here, as i see them all as games. None of them claim to be the real driving simulator, a bold claim...

Go ahead and tell me those are more arcade so we can be done with this already. Then please go ahead and list some racedrivers who use GT as an offseason training tool.
I know for sure some use rbr, iracing and maybe some of the others as a training...

Yes the phys in gt7 is better but its not any good by any stretch of the imagination, especially FR cars let go without much warning. Whatever im done. Tomato tomato.

 

[extreme car]

The time stamp is at 2:02.

You can see he goes into a snap. Little to no throttle. He mentioned that the factory came with the Torsen, but he may have misunderstood. Here in the states, auto comes with the Torsen. He has an aftermarket diff installed. Most of the control from the cars come with the stability management modulating brake and throttle opening to stabilize the car.

nope, that's not a snap, that's called powerslide. he mashed the throttle hard and corrected with a bit of opposite lock nothing close to snap oversteer.



here's a snap oversteer. high speed corner and light throttle application and you're done.

 

[Imari]

Because really, can you even compare this gt in its current state to the standard that gt5/6 held when it came out. Its a freaking beta of gtsport 2.0

I dunno, it seems better than GT5 and 6 at release. GT5 1.01 was a trainwreck. GT6 at release was not flash considering that GT5 Spec II was also available for a fraction of the price. GT7 has issues, but I'm not sure it's worse than the previous two.

Gran Turismo games haven't been good release day purchases for about 15 years, although we all wish that would change. Realistically, if you wait a year or two for the patches and fixes and additional content you get a significantly better game for a significantly lower price.

This is obviously true for pretty much all games, but the gap in quality between release and end-of-life versions for Gran Turismo seems well above what is normal. End-of-life Gran Turismo is generally amazing.

Most people seem to only realize the major flaws after hours of playing. The menu books help distract you from them until they run out. Chances are most reviewers never got that far before writing their review and scoring it.

To be fair, there's only so many hours reviewers can reasonably play before writing a review. Reviewing really long games on release day is near impossible if you're only given a week's headstart, because even if this is you're job you're only going to get to play 40-ish hours and you'll have to capture content and write in that time too.

Reviewers did their best with what they had. Sony and Polyphony made sure that they couldn't see the microtransactions, which are the major flaw.

You can see he goes into a snap.

Lol, mild countersteer is a snap? I think there are some differences in terminology going on here if you think that's what counts as a snap.

here's a snap oversteer. high speed corner and light throttle application and you're done.

The funny thing is that you can see how ready the instructor was for it from the moment the driver downshifted late. He had his hand there ready to lock the steering wheel over and let them spin safely off.

 

[wheelhp]

90% of the people complaining got caught off guard with the physics expecting something simpler, or are people jumping from other platforms who don't play the game feeling uncomfortable that they took a step in a more sim like direction, which also threatens the success of their own game.

Disagree.

Don't want to be disrespectful, but most people complaining probably never took their car to the limit at autocross nor has had any track time.

Hypothetically, it could be true that many users of GTplanet do not have track days with their car, but let people complain even if you're right and that were true. There's no need to defend whatever you're defending. The only way the game is going to get fixed is if people complain about the aspects that are worth complaining about.

They fixed the oversteer issue. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the physics model. It's 80-90% there. I say this as someone who has track time and extensive time autoxing.

I don't think they fixed it, if they did why is it not in the patch notes?

 

[Firestone]

nope, that's not a snap, that's called powerslide. he mashed the throttle hard and corrected with a bit of opposite lock nothing close to snap oversteer.



here's a snap oversteer. high speed corner and light throttle application and you're done.

I owned that for 8 years. I know what a full throttle on the car sounds likes. He was nowhere near full. He was applying no more than 25% throttle. The car snapped. That was not a power slide. He caught the snap. If he were to apply any more throttle, he would have spun. He was driving the car gently through the course. He knows better than to mash the throttle after activating the pedal dance.

 

[Scaff]

They updated the physics model and the road cars are more progressive. There were a lot of factors that could possibly lead to the older model. Most road cars have stability management, so most people don't even know when you enter a slide, your car is actually braking your wheels to maintain stability. I was just at an autox session with my car and felt the car pulse the brakes to prevent me from spinning out. Cars will also dial back throttle without you knowing it. It may very well be they originally had the physics model as to simulate cars with no assists. This is a good example from the FRS when you activate the "pedal dance" to turn off all the stability management

To note, this car has as only 135ft-lb (183Nm) of torque to the wheels and notice how easy it snaps and easy to light his tires up.
To note, race cars can snap hard if they go beyond their slip angle. It happens all the time.

That addresses none of the points from my post, and please quit trying to teach me to suck eggs.

I've literally taught vehicle dynamics within the motor industry.

 

[Firestone]

Disagree.

Hypothetically, it could be true that many users of GTplanet do not have track days with their car, but let people complain even if you're right and that were true. There's no need to defend whatever you're defending. The only way the game is going to get fixed is if people complain about the aspects that are worth complaining about.


I don't think they fixed it, if they did why is it not in the patch notes?

If users complain too much, it will lead them to dumb down the physics. I don't want them to do that. I want this game to recreate reality as much as possible as anyone because I want to use it as a training tool for track days. I can say with 80-90% confidence that they got my car right on point with the handling. I go to the track then get back on the game and verify the characteristics. It's literally the same corner carry speeds, same braking point, same exit point. My reference is Streets of Willow. I have stock suspension on my car. Body roll is the same in the game. The steering input and feel is on point and how the car shifts with weight and how it translate through the steering. I have a lot of seat time irl and the game.

The oversteer is fixed. Go to the 370Z license test. Before the car snapped. There is a lot more induced understeer now. More slip angle and progressive slide. Its a lot easier to catch. It feels better

That addresses none of the points from my post, and please quit trying to teach me to suck eggs.

I've literally taught vehicle dynamics within the motor industry.

Have you played the game the last 2 days? I'm telling you the opinion you hold of the game is outdated. Also, is what I'm saying wrong?

 

[Scaff]

Yeah, that is my point (I graduated a ME 10 years ago, it's still fresh in my mind. This is sophomore level dynamics). 183nm is insignificant compared to what's out there. Without electronic aids, it's not farfetched for a low power car to snap into oversteer which a lot of people thing is foreign with production cars. 2nd gear, which people are experiencing is still near 300nm of torque!

No, just no.

First snap oversteer is normally a result of dynamics, not power oversteer, for it to be power oversteer you need a lot of torque (more than we are seeing here), and second, you need an LSD.

As without one (and a lot of the cars causing issues don't have one stock) you're spinning that torque away.

Have you played the game the last 2 days? I'm telling you the opinion you hold of the game is outdated. Also, is what I'm saying wrong?

Yes, feel free to check my PSN, and yes some of what you're claiming is flawed.
I'm also staggered to see you claim GT7 is 80 to 90% accurate when it was nailed down in this thread yesterday that the understeer FFB is utter wrong.

A question, when you autocross (in general, not just you specifically) do you ever use the handbrake in a rear wheel drive car?

 

[extreme car]

I owned that for 8 years. I know what a full throttle on the car sounds likes. He was nowhere near full. He was applying no more than 25% throttle. The car snapped. That was not a power slide. He caught the snap. If he were to apply any more throttle, he would have spun. He was driving the car gently through the course. He knows better than to mash the throttle after activating the pedal dance.

Thanks, I also have eyes and ears, I can see the RPM gauge and engine screaming at corner exit, that's not 25% throttle. since you do have a BRZ/GT86 in real life why don't you go to your auto X record steering, brake and throttle and I'll try and emulate what you do in GT7 to see if it matches to what you've been saying this whole thread.

 

[RaceFace85]

I still laugh at this:

What happened you may wonder? I put racing hards on a fully tuned FF car and braked hard going down that little hill into the first turn on the Nordscheliefe.

Isn't there a trophy for the longest stoppie?

 

[extreme car]

@Scaff does the automatic GT86 come with torsen LSD as standard in UK?

 

[Scaff]

You can see he goes into a snap.

That is categorically not a snap, it mild oversteer and progressive at that.

A easy, slow and minor catch.

@Scaff does the automatic GT86 come with torsen LSD as standard in UK?

It does.

 

[Firestone]

No, just no.

First snap oversteer is normally a result of dynamics, not power oversteer, for it to be power oversteer you need a lot of torque (more than we are seeing here), and second, you need an LSD.

As without one (and a lot of the cars causing issues don't have one stock) you're spinning that torque away.


Yes, feel free to check my PSN, and yes some of what you're claiming is flawed.
I'm also staggered to see you claim GT7 is 80 to 90% accurate when it was nailed down in this thread yesterday that the understeer FFB is utter wrong.

A question, when you autocross (in general, not just you specifically) do you ever use the handbrake in a rear wheel drive car?

Sorry, got the terminology wrong. What everyone is complaining about in the game is power oversteer, not snap.
It really doesn't take a lot of torque to induce an oversteer


As far as autox, I have an awd. No, I don't use a hand brake.
However, when I owned the FRS, it was not difficult to get is sideways.

I'll stick by my claim of 80-90% confidence with the game.

 

[Imari]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the physics model. It's 80-90% there.

You know these two sentences don't go together, right? You can't have absolutely nothing wrong with something and also have it be only 90% there.

What's the other 10% that isn't quite there? More absolutely nothing wrong?

Isn't there a trophy for the longest stoppie?

It turned out we had Tourist Trophy 2 with us all along.

 

[Firestone]

Thanks, I also have eyes and ears, I can see the RPM gauge and engine screaming at corner exit, that's not 25% throttle. since you do have a BRZ/GT86 in real life why don't you go to your auto X record steering, brake and throttle and I'll try and emulate what you do in GT7 to see if it matches to what you've been saying this whole thread.

He's not applying alot of throttle. He is maintaining speed around corner at high rpm. He would have rotated harder if he applied the throttle.
I don't own the FRS anymore. Sold it.

You know these two sentences don't go together, right? You can't have absolutely nothing wrong with something and also have it be only 90% there.

What's the other 10% that isn't quite there? More absolutely nothing wrong?

It turned out we had Tourist Trophy 2 with us all along.

You know what I mean. The claims in the thread are saying that it totally inaccurate, which is completely wrong.
The other 10% is cold tire physics, which I'm totally not 100% sold on. Cars are a bit slippery, but there are specific attributes to car that I think is not addressed properly. For example, I own an EvoX and the AYC (torque vectoring system) will send into oversteer conditions when the tires are cold. It happens in the game when you play sports mode, but it's not as extreme as what I experience irl. However, tires get up to temp after one lap, so I don't have to worry about that the remaining of the track session. The 80-90% is good enough for the majority of the drive. There is nothing wrong there. And whatever detail that is inaccurate, I can't feel it.

 

[extreme car]

That is categorically not a snap, it mild oversteer and progressive at that.

A easy, slow and minor catch.


It does.

damn we got shafted yet again in Australia.

Sorry, got the terminology wrong. What everyone is complaining about in the game is power oversteer, not snap.
It really doesn't take a lot of torque to induce an oversteer


As far as autox, I have an awd. No, I don't use a hand brake.
However, when I owned the FRS, it was not difficult to get is sideways.

I'll stick by my claim of 80-90% confidence with the game.

nope I'm complaining both power over steer and snap over steer in FR car in GT7 is unrealistic, due to the on off tyre grip. the GR86 I drove a couple of pages ago snaps oversteer on exit of high speed turn while I carefully apply throttle which happened almost like in the exige video on monza. then when you purposefully power oversteer the car, it's hard to find the grip limit of the car so you have to seesaw the steering and pray the car doesn't spin.

 

[Grandi]

nope, that's not a snap, that's called powerslide. he mashed the throttle hard and corrected with a bit of opposite lock nothing close to snap oversteer.



here's a snap oversteer. high speed corner and light throttle application and you're done.

To me this just looks like an "optimistic" entry and lift-off, and a bit of throttle should actually stabilise such behavior. In such situations, I don't see a major issue in GT7. The inability to (properly) powerslide is another thing, which I'm hoping can be fixed with something (relatively) ad-hoc, not knowing what is actually contained in the tyre model. Then again, it took iRacing 10 years so... fingers crossed.

 

[Scaff]

Dd

Im not sure we are getting this.
Let me think out loud for a sec.

As far as i know, the gearbox translates torque and angular velocity from the engines output shaft via a system of gears to the rear wheels.

The gear ratio for first gear (which the person in the video used?!) In a gt86 is 1:3.63

The torque sent to the rear axle is then
183nm * 3.63= about 700nm

Then if im not further mistaken, the actual wheel diameter and rubber thickness plays some role in what actual torque is sent to the ground and ofcourse it also has an effect on acceleration. The actual force sent to the contact patch should be fairly easy to calculate by knowing diameter. Then the compound probably has a coefficient of friction thats temperature dependent, which im not at liberty to even think of at this hour, but im sure thats fairly easy to grasp too.

Lets guess the diameter is 18 inches, we take the radius and convert to metric, because only people who measure things with their thumbs use imperial.

9 inch * 2.25 = ~20cm = 0.2m

The definition of torque is

M=F*R

So

F=M/R

Then the force at the contact patch if only applied to one wheel is

F=700/0.2=3500N

3500N is in this shoddy calculation the equivavalent for all purposes to ca 350kg.

Thats the force excerted in first gear if its to only one wheel, perpendicular to the axis, or tangential to the wheel, as you whish, but certainly paralell to the ground.

I bet you already figured if the diff is locked then it would be 350/2 per wheel. Thats still 175kg force tearing that poor tire in the direction the rotation wants.

Afaik gt86 isnt known for their beefy tires, but for their excellent character at and beyond the limit. Im lead to believe its largely down to using tire width and diameter suitable to the power and a predictable chassis setup, coupled to low CG body.

Its 4 am and i could just be dreaming I got learnt at school, lets hope i dont have to delete this in shame in a couple of hours when i smell coffe again.

Very close

You need to factor in both the driven gear (1st in this case), the final drive, and the wheel itself. which for a GT86 would be as follows:

Assuming Peak Torque. 205Nm * 3.63 (1st) * 3.43 (Final) = 2,552 and then divide that by 2 for the single wheel, which would be 1,276 Nm

You then multiply that by the wheel radius (which means you have to work that out as well), which for a GT86 is 0.312m so 1,276 Nm * 0.312m = 398 Nm

However, that's not the end of it, as you also then need to know the vertical load at each corner to see how much grip it has to overcome.

A GT86 weighs 1,258kgs and has a static weight distribution of 53:47, and if we assume a tyre/surface mU value of 1.0 and that you getting to 50:50 distribution under acceleration (because I really can't be doing that math that early), it's 624kgs at the rear, between two tyres, that's 312kgs of load to overcome on each corner.

At 398 Nm, they are generating at peak torque, in first gear, enough force to overwhelm the tyre, from static they will smoke the tyre as it overcomes rolling resistance, however, the GT86 is also a peaky little bugger and that peak torque is generated right at the top of the rev range and only literally as you are above to change up.

Also worth noting is that while the loading will remain the same as you change gear, the wheel torque will reduce.

2nd: 240 NM

So from 2nd gear onwards, it can only generate enough force to overwhelm the tyre if it's partially unloaded, and that will reduce for each and every gear.

90% of the people complaining got caught off guard with the physics expecting something simpler, or are people jumping from other platforms who don't play the game feeling uncomfortable that they took a step in a more sim like direction, which also threatens the success of their own game.

I'm coming from AMS, AMS2, RF2, AC. ACC, and 25 years in the motor industry, why am I getting caught off guard?

Sorry, got the terminology wrong. What everyone is complaining about in the game is power oversteer, not snap.
It really doesn't take a lot of torque to induce an oversteer

I've just done the maths, on a GT86, above 2nd or 3rd, it requires more than it can generate to cause anything but lazy slides when the driven wheels are at least partially unloaded. This should be no surprise as that's how Toyota designed it!

Which is exactly what we are seeing in that video, the car is being unsettled and then using 1st or 2nd to overwhelm them. It's not comparable to cars loosing it suddenly in higher gears with settled dynamics.

As far as autox, I have an awd. No, I don't use a hand brake.
However, when I owned the FRS, it was not difficult to get is sideways.

I can only conclude it wasn't a particularly tight autocross course or it was slow enough to use 1st, or second if the cars already unsettled.

I mean you do realise this is why the Scandinavian Flick was invented?

Autocross, not slight intended, I've done it myself, is low-speed motorsport. It's not comparable to the force in the videos you have been using and getting wrong, particularly those at the ring.

I'll stick by my claim of 80-90% confidence with the game.

Despite the fact it clearly and demonstrably gets one of the fundamental pieces of driver feedback wrong?

He's not applying alot of throttle. He is maintaining speed around corner at high rpm. He would have rotated harder if he applied the throttle.
I don't own the FRS anymore. Sold it.

RPM determines torque, not throttle position!

If he's at high RPM he's at high torque, and given the torque curve on an 86, once you get past peak torque all you have left is read-line.

 

[Grandi]

RPM determines torque, not throttle position!

To dispel any confusion, of course torque is a function of both throttle position and RPM. At higher RPM, lower throttle position would usually translate to (relatively) less torque as the losses increase more. The GT86 does not have a mechanical throttle linkage so the mapping between can be whatever. An adjustable throttle mapper would actually be a pretty cool tuning part in GT games, even though many cars have it as standard.

 

[MadmuppGT]

I'm still waiting for the "Physics are perfect" to respond to my picture that shows stability control keeping my cars under control while going straight with zero steering input.

They just keep saying takes practice and use the assists. But there's an obvious problem as it should need to keep the stability kicking in constantly just to keep the car driving straight on a straight road with no steering input.

Without these settings the car instantly spins the moment you begin to turn or brake.

So why is my copy of GT7 giving this screwy gameplay.
Thats with controller and G29 wheel. It's less a chore with the slower safe cars, but the moment you drive anything RWD or with an ounce of power it's unplayable.

Once again I ask why? And has anyone else had this?

 

[Scaff]

To dispel any confusion, of course torque is a function of both throttle position and RPM. At higher RPM, lower throttle position would usually translate to (relatively) less torque as the losses increase more. The GT86 does not have a mechanical throttle linkage so the mapping between can be whatever. An adjustable throttle mapper would actually be a pretty cool tuning part in GT games, even though many cars have it as standard.

Given we're talking about power-oversteer here I am, I admit, simplifying things. Opening of the throttle and therefore positive torque are assumed, releasing the throttle will result in negative torque, but you would also see a resultant drop in RPM, and he's not doing so in the video in question. Steady throttle position, steady RPM, steady torque.

 

[JDMKING13]

I'm still waiting for the "Physics are perfect" to respond to my picture that shows stability control keeping my cars under control while going straight with zero steering input.

They just keep saying takes practice and use the assists. But there's an obvious problem as it should need to keep the stability kicking in constantly just to keep the car driving straight on a straight road with no steering input.

Without these settings the car instantly spins the moment you begin to turn or brake.

So why is my copy of GT7 giving this screwy gameplay.
Thats with controller and G29 wheel. It's less a chore with the slower safe cars, but the moment you drive anything RWD or with an ounce of power it's unplayable.

Once again I ask why? And has anyone else had this?

In GTS it’s the same way man…. Anytime you just move the steering wheel slightly the ASM comes on in GTS… did you not play GTS?? And again the RWD cars are easy to drive sorry that your having trouble…

 

[Scaff]

Had to double check as I wasn't sure this was accurate

He mentioned that the factory came with the Torsen, but he may have misunderstood.

No, he's 100% correct, UK spec cars come with Torsen Diff's as standard.

Here in the states, auto comes with the Torsen.

He's not in the States, Donnington Park (which I will be driving past later today) is in the UK.

 

[PorscheFan911]

After years and years of only reading the Gtplanet Forum I finally join here because of the Oversteering issues , bugs , whatever you want to call it.

I personally find the RWD cars very twitchy and in that Respect don't reflect real driving dynamics properly.

To my background, I've been playing Sims since 2007 with Rfactor and various others.
I also track my own car very frequently on the Nordschleife.

Now on the subject of the physics - drinving on the Nordschleife in GT7 - elevation and compressions are on point , breaking is on point , going through the banked corners and getting unsettled is also quite good but acceleration out of corners is way to soapi. In game when it's dry it feels like IRL after rain hast passed for 1-2 hours - when it's not wet nor really Dry.

This just isn't right in my mind. This has nothing do to with the fact that I have to adjust to the new physics , nor realism. In a damp context I'd say theve nailed it. As for the dry track , nope , needs definitely adjustment.

They shall please keep the Oversteering and the snapping as it's realistic but not with no to little throttle input.

Just my 2ct.

Great to be here in the Forum at last.

Looking forward to discussions !

Have a great day or night !

 

[Firestone]

I'm coming from AMS, AMS2, RF2, AC. ACC, and 25 years in the motor industry, why am I getting caught off guard?

I've just done the maths, on a GT86, above 2nd or 3rd, it requires more than it can generate to cause anything but lazy slides when the driven wheels are at least partially unloaded. This should be no surprise as that's how Toyota designed it!

Which is exactly what we are seeing in that video, the car is being unsettled and then using 1st or 2nd to overwhelm them. It's not comparable to cars loosing it suddenly in higher gears with settled dynamics.

I just loaded up AC and you cant do this in AC with the GT86. Too much understeer with the eco tires. The way GT approaches the car is more natural. He's not using hand brakes. The slide is being delivered straight from the power of the car. AC the car doesn't turn when you mash the throttle in AC.

Despite the fact it clearly and demonstrably gets one of the fundamental pieces of driver feedback wrong?

Which is? I'm sharing my experience. I drive a EvoX irl. I've had a lot of time in the car. I know how the feedback in the game is. I trained on a track in the game and translated it real world with the same suspension setup (stock) and similar tires. I don't know what other experience can outweigh that.

RPM determines torque, not throttle position!

I know this. That was my whole point in the reply. He wasn't transmitting torque, but he broke traction and snapped right. People were complaining about that in GT Sport. This demonstrates it actually happens. Try this is AC, it doesn't work at all. GT has had the better physics models for production cars. A lot of aspects feel similar between the cars, but there are things GT does better.