Gran Turismo Gentlemans Cup (GTGC) | FINISHED! (for now...) Thanks to everyone who joined in!Finished 

  • Thread starter flip55
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Just gotta keep in mind that with different cars come different strengths and weaknesses, It's ridiculously tough to find an even steven balance between all cars, on all tracks. Ultimately there will ba a car that can out perform the rest of the field, this month it was the RX-8, and a couple months ago it was the Corvette. (Even though a lousy 6 cylinder beat it :sly:) Don't get discouraged while trying to find that perfect BOP, because realistically there isn't one. Viva la GTGC!!
 
flip55
So practice will be on for tonight, we'll have to discuss some things there.
For that purpose, I will also have an additional practice session open tomorrow night as well. Same time, same place.
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Same bat time. Same bat channel? lol
 
Okay, do I'm sending this via smartphone because my internet appears to be having problems right now. I may be delayed tonight. If others are on, you may begin a room without me.
 
flip55
Okay, do I'm sending this via smartphone because my internet appears to be having problems right now. I may be delayed tonight. If others are on, you may begin a room without me.
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I'm jumping on in 5 minutes, I'll have a room running.
 
So predictably, when I need to get on, I have massive problems. Thank you Miata for running things tonight. Hopefully all will be resolved tomorrow night. Anyone with data/lap times can send them my way.

Never mind, it miraculously came back! Getting on now.
 
flip55
So predictably, when I need to get on, I have massive problems. Thank you Miata for running things tonight. Hopefully all will be resolved tomorrow night. Anyone with data/lap times can send them my way.

Never mind, it miraculously came back! Getting on now.
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The only problem is we have a lot MIA tonight to talk matters over. :-(
 
Ok guys, I kinda posted this up online tonight but it is hard to explain on GT6 chat.


The basic theory on this is a weight penalty/performance boost to accompany an Alien/Slower guy deficit reduction.


The main theory of this is something I have been thinking about since the GTTCC but never fully thought this out until now. We lose a lot of racers because of no competition people can give or people can not give. We like endurance racing and anything shorter then an hour we feel 1 mistake ruins our chances of a good finish or battle which happens well too often in our races. Although recently with the addition of weight penalty it has closed quite a gap we needed closing, but we are not quite there yet.


My theory behind this will not automatically make everything even for each of us, but those of us that are racing constantly in Flip's series will see a huge gap reduced leading to better racing along with better racecraft and better improvements each of us makes in our racing.


The 40/60/80kg penalty works great for the front runners however the only problem we run into is the back of the field still does not see an advantage for them to move more into the pack. Call this a reverse engineering here and have a so called "40/60/80kg" reduction for these guys. Now obviously this is too huge of a gap for weight where we can not BOP the cars on the grid. It is just not possible.


So let us stretch the penalty and advantage weights out a few places like 5th - 1st place and run it at smaller increments say 5 kg between places. Have a starting weight deficit say like 20kg for 5th place, then increment up 5 kg from base weight to 1st place. Thus 4th 25 kg 3rd 30 kg 2nd 35 kg 1st 40kg from starting weight of race. Likewise it works backwards for the final 5 places but without the 20kg bump. So 5 kg for 5th to last and so on. There will be a ceiling on both ends of the spectrum to hit which at that point if the front is still out pacing and the rear is still too far behind we incrementally adjust power based upon the gap. 5 hp sounds like a good round number but that is subject to change.

I do not think it will come to the hp increments but if we all raise our weights on the cars to 1200kg for the Hondas, Mazda, and Toyionbaru (Toyochevy as Flip puts it); 1300kg for the BMW and 1205kg for the VW we have a starting blueprint to start a field leveling process which I can not promise will make this series even overnight. However over the course of a couple of months we will see real intense racing from each and everyone of us which ultimately is the goal. Nothing will be better then having our field running within 2 seconds of each other throughout the sprint races and hopefully within 20 second on our endurance races minus any incidents.

I feel this would be our best solution for the future along with now having a lot of bookmarked races throughout all series giving new drivers test beds on where they should start in the field. Apricot Hill in the Roadster TC would be a testament if they could hit a 1'21.xxx with the original GTTCC stats or how fast at Spa could someone rub with the Nissan 350z/370z forgot which one.

This would give us a chance to induct new drivers in a hypothesis of what we need to do to help them come to an even stable of drivers.

The thing is this system will carry over from series to series. The truth about this past series is that the Mazda was picked quickly because out of the box it was the quickest turning car. It is no reason why the BMW could have won the series or with a good tire management setup the Civic easily could have won the series. The Toyionbaru I don't know what will help that car, I just can't seem to ever find a tuning chi with those cars.

In the end I think this will really change the structure and equality among us all racing in this series.

What I see from this ultimately is a BOP for drivers versus a need to be extremely meticulously BOPing the cars as much.still will need a baseline for cars but it will be quite a bit easier
 
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This is the simplified version of what Miata wrote up above there.

We set the cars at a weight with the ballast where weight can both be added and removed from them.
Drivers who finish in the top half like 4 or 5 get weight added like normal, drives who finish lower than that point get weight removed.

I like this quite a bit, Miata. But I think it would've been best if I have started the regs with this in mind. It's a lot to change in less than 48 hours. As well as figuring out a new system for ballast.
If your finishing places in the month are, let's say, 3rd, 7th, 2nd, and 4th, that would mean that your ballast might look like +10, -20, +20, -5, or something like that.

What I was going to do was just add 60kg to the Mazdas across the board (which incidentally is what happened to Citroen in our real world counterpart last weekend), and take something less than 10 hp from the Civic. It doesn't solve everything, but I think that would help. Those were the two largest things that came up. But again, I wouldn't mind hearing from you guys on this.

I'll be on again tonight for more practice and all sorts of stuff, normal time.
 
I like the idea of having a weight unpenalty for backmarkers, however in order for any of it to really work, the cars need to be within half second of each other overall on vast majority of tracks. The main problem with it is that we only run the cars for two months or whatever, so spending the time to get parity between seven or so cars is time consuming, as flip has painstakingly found out. We have all realized that the mazda is a quick car and handles like a dream, so maybe a quick fix would be to add 50kg to it stock to slow it down by the half-second or so it needs to be more even. Also, a limit of 2-3 for each car would be best so we can get some of the other cars in the field. Even though I was only able to race the first two races, it was kind of a buzz kill to see mazdas everywhere and only 4 or so people in other cars. With just the statistics of the spread of car selection of the field, we can almost readjust BOP. Mazdas should get nerfed, and bmw needs a boost. I didn't test any cars other than the subionotas, so I can't really say how all the other cars are, but I can do some quick running in them and see tonight possibly if I have some time.

But to me, getting the cars close is most important. Losing to a far superior car, kind of sucks even though I like putting myself in that position.
 
I kinda wanted to get this in before this discussion but @Ares85 and myself have decided to chase sponsorship from BMW. I believe we are still able to change come Thursday to the BMW, this has nothing to do with the added weight to the Mazda that was just stated, this has been in the work between the two of us since the second race this past season.

If there is any opposition to this we will continue to run with the Mazda.
 
i'm good with anyone changing manufacture. originally I was going to choose bmw but cant pass up repping Honda. there are a lot of good ideas and to find the right solutions for the series will still be difficult. i ran a gt series where the top three had more than the 80kg winner getting 200kg but the cars were taken to a minimum weight for that to work. not sure if these cars have enough hp to overcome those large amounts. however it works out is fine with me. closing the field would make it more interesting.
 
miata13B
I kinda wanted to get this in before this discussion but @Ares85 and myself have decided to chase sponsorship from BMW. I believe we are still able to change come Thursday to the BMW, this has nothing to do with the added weight to the Mazda that was just stated, this has been in the work between the two of us since the second race this past season.

If there is any opposition to this we will continue to run with the Mazda.
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If you guys want to, that is fine.

Also: Practice room is now up!
 
So here are the changes for tonight's race with the specs:

Mazda RX - 8 (for those left) -- +60kg above spec - 1210 kg
Honda Civic -- 95% on the power limiter (and naturally, I forget what the power figure actually is. I'll have that for you before the race)

I would also like to confirm entry changes for the following drivers:

@WanganGhost & @Rob Ledwell -- Scion FR - S -- Confirmed!
@miata13B & @Ares85 -- BMW
@Kgffy -- keeping Mazda (?)


Also, just two very quick announcements.

The finale at Bathurst will have to be pushed back a week to June 4th. I will be in another part of the country on the planned date. (came up sort of last minute)

And for the month of June... I need a brake from hosting. So I have no formal events planned for next month, unless I come up with an odd one to do (or if you guys have any ideas for anything, that'd be cool too!) But I'll be back at it in the summer with the Season 2 of the Global Sports Car Championship, which still being worked out. So June will go to making sure that's all good.
 
I won't be here for June either. Il be in Lemans for the 24 hours. Who knows? R-Sport might be a real team next year.
 
WanganGhost
I won't be here for June either. Il be in Lemans for the 24 hours. Who knows? R-Sport might be a real team next year.
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You lucky son of a... :sly:
Get back to us if you can get some GTE Am rides lined up :D

miata13B
I can Host Thursday night Events during June. How about a good 'ole spec race?
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Well, as you will remember, the GSCC did have a spec class last year. I want to do the same this year, so we can maybe work out a car by then. But more importantly, I would like to try your ballast idea for that class. I think we can do some experiments in June for preparation.
 
I might not be able to make this race, Ive been having some Internet trouble all day. I'll attempt to figure it out but if I can't I'll have to skip. Have fun lads!
 

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