Gran Turismo Sophy Demonstration Reveals a Potential Return of B-Spec

[Voodoovaj]

I would. And many other players. As long As there is a mid-race save function.

Likely not, which is why the very long races were removed. The save function was during pitstops. The payoff would have to be enormous to sacrifice so much play time to those few races.

Take a 24 hour race. If you did it in daily one hour sessions, it would take you 24 days. So, lets assume you don't play everyday, it would take a month of single player time.

In B-spec however (at least for GT5), you would train up your drivers, then set them free on a 24 hour race. 1 day and it's done.

1 day versus 1 month is a big difference. I would give up 1 day. Very few would give up 1 month.

It's unbelievable that endurance races are not in GT7. Once a certainty in a GT game but now non-existant apart from the races in the missions tab.

Umm...That's simply and incorrect statement. In the early days, the "endurance" races were 30 minutes to 1 hour long. That offering expanded to real time, and then it was reduced back to 30 minute to 1 hour races. They are still there and there's quite a few of them. The 700pp race at Lemans? The 800pp race at Spa? The 600pp 30 minutes at Tokyo that people are constantly grinding?

Heck, in Sport Mode, we just finished a LeMans 30min endurance two weeks ago and a Spa 50+ minute endurance race last week.

Granted only 1 hour races but the fact you can only earn credits once is just the worst decision regarding replayability.

On this point, I agree 100000%. If they want to offer cars for 20mil credits in the legends dealership, that's fine, but they should ALSO be offered as prize for grinding the longer races. That's the only reason I did the real time endurance races in the past.

People still complained

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/nissan-r390-gt1-lm-97-race-car.286436/

But, I remember trying to get the black and red Clarion R390 but I never did. I only ever got the blue one and of course the road car.

There's a car that I wish would come back to the series

 

[jonoholland29]

Likely not, which is why the very long races were removed. The save function was during pitstops. The payoff would have to be enormous to sacrifice so much play time to those few races.

Take a 24 hour race. If you did it in daily one hour sessions, it would take you 24 days. So, lets assume you don't play everyday, it would take a month of single player time.

In B-spec however (at least for GT5), you would train up your drivers, then set them free on a 24 hour race. 1 day and it's done.

1 day versus 1 month is a big difference. I would give up 1 day. Very few would give up 1 month.

I mean I’ve done the 24h several ways.

• On my own in 2h ish stints with 2 x BSpecers in realtime.
• With a mate and 1 Bspec driver in realtime.
• With a mate in realtime (This was LM starting at 15:00 too so it syncs with the outside world)
• 2hish a day on my own saving and playing the next day - this was for the Nurburgring 24h one

 

[Voodoovaj]

I mean I’ve done the 24h several ways.

• On my own in 2h ish stints with 2 x BSpecers in realtime.
• With a mate and 1 Bspec driver in realtime.
• With a mate in realtime (This was LM starting at 15:00 too so it syncs with the outside world)
• 2hish a day on my own saving and playing the next day - this was for the Nurburgring 24h one

You doing it, and it being popular enough to keep it as a feature, are two completely different points. Do you think Sony pulled these races out of the game due to their extreme popularity, or because of their extreme LACK of popularity?

 

[NTGSruler]

Likely not, which is why the very long races were removed. The save function was during pitstops. The payoff would have to be enormous to sacrifice so much play time to those few races.

Take a 24 hour race. If you did it in daily one hour sessions, it would take you 24 days. So, lets assume you don't play everyday, it would take a month of single player time.

In B-spec however (at least for GT5), you would train up your drivers, then set them free on a 24 hour race. 1 day and it's done.

1 day versus 1 month is a big difference. I would give up 1 day. Very few would give up 1 month.

Well, this is a personal choice. I did the 24hour races with the option to save. If you want to you can do it in 24 days i guess. So saying this is the reason why longer endurance races are not in GT7 is not correct.

Umm...That's simply and incorrect statement. In the early days, the "endurance" races were 30 minutes to 1 hour long. That offering expanded to real time, and then it was reduced back to 30 minute to 1 hour races. They are still there and there's quite a few of them. The 700pp race at Lemans? The 800pp race at Spa? The 600pp 30 minutes at Tokyo that people are constantly grinding?

Heck, in Sport Mode, we just finished a LeMans 30min endurance two weeks ago and a Spa 50+ minute endurance race last week.

Well for me personally i don't count those races as "Endurance" races. Maybe you could count Spa as one. And yes, i missed Spa as a daily race in Sport mode. But i can't remember if we ever had such "long" races in Sport mode.

On this point, I agree 100000%. If they want to offer cars for 20mil credits in the legends dealership, that's fine, but they should ALSO be offered as prize for grinding the longer races. That's the only reason I did the real time endurance races in the past.

People still complained

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/nissan-r390-gt1-lm-97-race-car.286436/

But, I remember trying to get the black and red Clarion R390 but I never did. I only ever got the blue one and of course the road car.

There's a car that I wish would come back to the series

I would loved it if you could earn credits with the 1 hour races like with the races in Circuit mode. Why we can't do that is just mind boggling and a anti-player/gameplay decision.

You doing it, and it being popular enough to keep it as a feature, are two completely different points. Do you think Sony pulled these races out of the game due to their extreme popularity, or because of their extreme LACK of popularity?

It doesn't matter if only one person that plays GT7 does those races or everybody. The fact is that for the moment there are no endurance races in (apart from the missions) in the game. At least they were there in previous GT games and you had the option to do them if they were 9/12/24 hours or whatever and you had the choice if you wanted to invest your time in them.

 

[Mafio]

Save points during an endurance race would defeat the purpose, would it not? I mean you're not really testing the endurance of much. Its not like the cars breakdown in GT. Its almost silly to have them in a video game at all. One has to remember, if you're "hardcore" into anything, you are the minority.

 

[jrbabbitt]

Play the 24 hour races with the Le Mans specifications, no more than 4 driving hours per stint in 6 hours which then you go to B-spec and let BOB drive and then go for another 4 hour stint when you can.
It's how I did in GT4 back in the days....

 

[Voodoovaj]

Well, this is a personal choice. I did the 24hour races with the option to save. If you want to you can do it in 24 days i guess. So saying this is the reason why longer endurance races are not in GT7 is not correct.

Just think about your statement. If I am incorrect, then the truth would be that Sony removed an enormously popular race type (real time endurance) for the purpose of...? What? To upset the audience? Because there's no logistical reason for it. it doesn't take more space or anything like that. it takes more testing time, but if it's popular, more testing time is justified.

Or, or, maybe, I'm correct, and it simply wasn't popular enough. A handful of people completing it doesn't make it worthwhile.

Which reason do you think makes more sense?

Well for me personally i don't count those races as "Endurance" races. Maybe you could count Spa as one. And yes, i missed Spa as a daily race in Sport mode. But i can't remember if we ever had such "long" races in Sport mode.

Well, you personally, can not count them, but the game has labelled these races "endurance" many times. In GT Sport, these races would have been in the endurance league.

It doesn't matter if only one person that plays GT7 does those races or everybody.

Actually it does matter. See, as mentioned above, everything has to get tested. That's a labor cost. If only a handful of people play these events, there's a cost to Sony that can't be justified.

If it were super popular, then it can be justified.

That's business.

The fact is that for the moment there are no endurance races in (apart from the missions) in the game. At least they were there in previous GT games and you had the option to do them if they were 9/12/24 hours or whatever and you had the choice if you wanted to invest your time in them.

So, the missions are an endurance race...because???? They are 30 minute to 1 hour races. Tokyo 600pp is roughly 30 minutes. 800pp at Spa is roughly an hour. So, you think one is an endurance race, but the other, which takes the same amount of time, is not?

Play the 24 hour races with the Le Mans specifications, no more than 4 driving hours per stint in 6 hours which then you go to B-spec and let BOB drive and then go for another 4 hour stint when you can.
It's how I did in GT4 back in the days....

Bingo...and that worked. Great use of the technology IMHO. I'd love for that to make a comeback. But, I doubt it will be in GT7. I suspect a GT8 is closer than we think.

GT1 - New tech
GT2 - build on the tech and expand the game
GT3 - New tech
GT4 - build on the tech and expand the game
GT5 - New tech
GT6 - build on the tech and expand the game
GTSport - New tech
GT7 - build on the tech and expand the game

I get the feeling that 2026 will bring GT8 and it won't have a PS4 counterpart.

 

[o000o]

Real Time Controls like GT6 have would be nice right? Seems to be good addition for B-Spec

Take a 24 hour race. If you did it in daily one hour sessions, it would take you 24 days. So, lets assume you don't play everyday, it would take a month of single player time.

In B-spec however (at least for GT5), you would train up your drivers, then set them free on a 24 hour race. 1 day and it's done.

You'd need to still complete the A-Spec 24h race yourself in GT5. GT4 doesn't need that due to A-Spec and B-Spec being interchangeable, and thus driver swaps are possible in GT4.

Save points during an endurance race would defeat the purpose, would it not? I mean you're not really testing the endurance of much. Its not like the cars breakdown in GT. Its almost silly to have them in a video game at all. One has to remember, if you're "hardcore" into anything, you are the minority.

I never did the even 4h endurance races on GT4 out of fear that my console would break down. If Championship can be suspended, Endurance races should be to.

 

[Johnny Caisse]

I would love endurance to be in GT7... that is if the penalty system in those races wouldn't be too severe 'cause I'm an inconsistent driver.

Sometimes I can pull off very good performances, sometimes I miss corners more often. Yesterday I was grinding Hypercar Parade at Trial Mountain just for fun and some credits and I had a 1.51.xxx lap time on lap 2 then lap 5 was far slower, 1.57.xxx.

I just hope they let the player adjust the realism level in GT8 instead of it varying by race event.

 

[NTGSruler]

Just think about your statement. If I am incorrect, then the truth would be that Sony removed an enormously popular race type (real time endurance) for the purpose of...? What? To upset the audience? Because there's no logistical reason for it. it doesn't take more space or anything like that. it takes more testing time, but if it's popular, more testing time is justified.

Or, or, maybe, I'm correct, and it simply wasn't popular enough. A handful of people completing it doesn't make it worthwhile.

Which reason do you think makes more sense?

I don't think Sony has something to do with it first of all. The decision lays purely with PD. They didn't "remove" endurance because Kaz himself said endurance races would eventually come to the game. Whenever that will be. I think PD purposely held back on endurance races to keep the balance in the game regarding earning credits. It also makes sense why you can only earn credits once with the 1 hour races in missions and all other races are normal.

Maybe it takes more testing or maybe not, i don't know, i'm not a developer.

Also does it make sense PD are testing a B-Spec mode to only to be able to use it in 3-5 lap races? I don't think so.

Well, you personally, can not count them, but the game has labelled these races "endurance" many times. In GT Sport, these races would have been in the endurance league.


Actually it does matter. See, as mentioned above, everything has to get tested. That's a labor cost. If only a handful of people play these events, there's a cost to Sony that can't be justified.

If it were super popular, then it can be justified.

That's business.

The "business" model that PD chose is the addition of MTX and adding real life prices for certain cars that takes you X amount of grinding to be able to buy them. Or... You can buy extra credits. And the second part of the model is regularly updates to the main game. What is the cost for PD to test out endurance races before bringing them to the main game? We already getting regular updates for free with new content which is also a cost for them.

So, the missions are an endurance race...because???? They are 30 minute to 1 hour races. Tokyo 600pp is roughly 30 minutes. 800pp at Spa is roughly an hour. So, you think one is an endurance race, but the other, which takes the same amount of time, is not?

GT7 is running in front of me now and if you go to missions-The human Comedy, those races are literally labeled as: One hour endurance series. So no, Le Mans, Tokyo, Sardegna are not endurance type races in my book. We can argue what the length of endurance races should be, just to call them endurance. The fact is that PD named those races specifically "Endurance" series. So to maybe come to an agreement between us: personally i would love it if PD added more of those races with maybe longer durations, if it makes sense or not

Bingo...and that worked. Great use of the technology IMHO. I'd love for that to make a comeback. But, I doubt it will be in GT7. I suspect a GT8 is closer than we think.

GT1 - New tech
GT2 - build on the tech and expand the game
GT3 - New tech
GT4 - build on the tech and expand the game
GT5 - New tech
GT6 - build on the tech and expand the game
GTSport - New tech
GT7 - build on the tech and expand the game

I get the feeling that 2026 will bring GT8 and it won't have a PS4 counterpart.

2026 would be cool! And no, not a PS4 version i think. But maybe a bit later a PS6 version, because PS6 is now expected around 2027/2028.

 

[georgetigra]

Take my money ♥️♥️

 

[Voodoovaj]

I don't think Sony has something to do with it first of all. The decision lays purely with PD.

PD is a development team within Sony Japan. PD = Sony

Maybe it takes more testing or maybe not, i don't know, i'm not a developer.

I've been in the game industry for 30 years (albeit, the last ten years have been all struggles, disappointments, cancelled plans, and no releases. 2024 was supposed to be a very different year, but I had even more disappointment. I have one last lifeline and, if it doesn't work, I'm out permanently).

Btw, my very first game. Blood Omen: The Legacy of Kain, is available on PS Plus right now!! Which means that I now have at least 1 game available on every iteration of PlayStation (FYI I don't make any money from that )

Also does it make sense PD are testing a B-Spec mode to only to be able to use it in 3-5 lap races? I don't think so.

Did you ever see B-Spec before? In GT5 (and 6 I believe) the entire single player could be played in B-spec. Everything from 2 laps to 24 hours. B-spec in GT5 included training your drivers, and the short races were used to get them started.

The "business" model that PD chose is the addition of MTX and adding real life prices for certain cars that takes you X amount of grinding to be able to buy them. Or... You can buy extra credits. And the second part of the model is regularly updates to the main game. What is the cost for PD to test out endurance races before bringing them to the main game? We already getting regular updates for free with new content which is also a cost for them.

GT is there to sell consoles. More consoles means more money for Sony. (I don't understand why people get upset at me for saying this. It is what it is) That's why they just released "My First" GT. It's also why they play the GT attract mode in electronics stores. You can see GT on the screens at Costco quite often.

MTX is additional income for Sony to help offset the cost of GT.

GT7 is running in front of me now and if you go to missions-The human Comedy, those races are literally labeled as: One hour endurance series. So no, Le Mans, Tokyo, Sardegna are not endurance type races in my book. We can argue what the length of endurance races should be, just to call them endurance. The fact is that PD named those races specifically "Endurance" series. So to maybe come to an agreement between us: personally i would love it if PD added more of those races with maybe longer durations, if it makes sense or not

Agreed. If PD calls it endurance, then it's endurance, and by this definition, 1 hour races are endurance races, which is what I said from the start.

2026 would be cool! And no, not a PS4 version i think. But maybe a bit later a PS6 version, because PS6 is now expected around 2027/2028.

They'll get the last few people to stop using their PS4 and move to PS5. That's what they did with GT Sport. GT Sport moved everyone. GT 8 will move everyone over just before a PS6 launch, and who knows what that might be. Given the streaming service, PS6 might be something very different to what we've seen up to now.

 

[Famine]

PD = Sony

Absolutely not.

 

[NTGSruler]

I've been in the game industry for 30 years (albeit, the last ten years have been all struggles, disappointments, cancelled plans, and no releases. 2024 was supposed to be a very different year, but I had even more disappointment. I have one last lifeline and, if it doesn't work, I'm out permanently).

Btw, my very first game. Blood Omen: The Legacy of Kain, is available on PS Plus right now!! Which means that I now have at least 1 game available on every iteration of PlayStation (FYI I don't make any money from that )

Wauw nice to hear about this! Now personally i'm not into those games, but i know people who were waiting to buy this game!

They'll get the last few people to stop using their PS4 and move to PS5. That's what they did with GT Sport. GT Sport moved everyone. GT 8 will move everyone over just before a PS6 launch, and who knows what that might be. Given the streaming service, PS6 might be something very different to what we've seen up to now.

I guess we will find out in the future! Can't wait to hear and see more about GT8. But first let's hope we get some good updates in the near future for GT7!

 

[i386]

Maybe pd will release it for the third anniversary...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Absolutely not.

Absolutely, yes

They're a first party developer.

If they ever get sold to someone like Tencent or one of the other big publishers, then they would be a second party developer. If they become 100% independent, then they would be a third party developer.

As a first party developer, Sony calls the shots. Sony signs the pay cheques. If another GT is made or not made, it won't be an internal decision. It's a Sony decision.

 

[Famine]

Absolutely, yes

No. You cannot use "PD" and "Sony" interchangeably as if they are the same entity, as you did:

If I am incorrect, then the truth would be that Sony removed an enormously popular race type (real time endurance) for the purpose of...?

If this is a decision that has been made for Gran Turismo, it is 100% not a decision which at any point crossed any desk of anyone at Sony. It wouldn't even have crossed any desk of anyone at PlayStation Studios - which is the actual overarching entity that manages the first-party studios - nor Sony Interactive Entertainment, which is the actual division responsible for gaming and headquartered in the USA, never mind getting elevated to the point of whole-ass Sony.

It's a chronic misunderstanding of the functional relationships between these entities. This sort of minutia is studio-level, not publisher's proxy-, publisher-, or multinational electronics and entertainment conglomerate-level.

PD would have made this decision and the buck would stop with the department head or Kazunori Yamauchi, as the company's founder/CEO. He might have had to explain it to his overseers at PlayStation Studios, but they will not have made that call.

 

[Giz WCR-666]

So do we still refer to this as Sophy, or do we bring back Bob, or do we evolve it to Bobphy?

its pronouns are ‘they/them’ not “this” 😂

 

[05XR8]

I'll name mine Brophy.

 

[Jordan]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Gran Turismo Sophy Learns Tire Management and Fuel Consumption, Surprising the Sony AI Team​

A new, experimental version of the Gran Turismo Sophy AI system was just revealed at the GT World Series finals in Amsterdam, and we had the chance to sit down with the Sony AI research team to learn more about what’s new and how it works...

 

[crooky369]

That's all well and good. But in my opinion they should concentrate on fixing the main game AI first.

Fix the rubber banding on custom races, the pre race gaps between cars when choosing rolling status is bugged if you try to change it from the default and reverts to 5 metres, the erratic pitstop behaviour with changing weather etc.

 

[Jordan]

That's all well and good. But in my opinion they should concentrate on fixing the main game AI first.

Fix the rubber banding on custom races, the pre race gaps between cars when choosing rolling status is bugged if you try to change it from the default and reverts to 5 metres, the erratic pitstop behaviour with changing weather etc.

Agreed, but those are Polyphony Digital's choices.

The Sony AI team isn't involved with how Sophy is actually integrated into the game.

 

[i386]

But in my opinion they should concentrate on fixing the main game AI first.

Sony AI is different organization than pd and has (probably) no influence on the normal ai

 

[danthespaceman]

Basically every answer they gave was... "we've discussed it"