Gran Turismo Sport Cross Over To A Real Simulator To Satisfy The Wheel Market

[Scaff]

Here is a another slogan I found from thrustmaster , “T-GT, the ultimate Thrustmaster racing simulator for Gran Turismo Sport and for future Gran Turismo games” . Sony , PD, and Thrustmaster are marketing a Racing Simulator experience.

Marketing being the keyword here.

When I tell my friends what I do for fun, I say I have a Racing Simulator in my den. If you tell your friends you have a PlayStation and play games I am ok with that.

You play games as well, like it or not racing sims are a genre within the video games industry.

You seem very nervous about your friends thinking you play video games, which makes nailing your 'sim' credentials to GTS all the odder, given that it's about as 'light' a sim as you can get. I mean even on the Playstation you could get far more 'willy waving' about this if you wanted to, and that seems to be your aim here. You don't want to be seen to be playing games and don't want to be mixed in with those who use a gamepad, which makes both your choice of title and platform all the odder as a hill to die on.

Myself, I play racing games, stretching from as full-blown a sim as you can get for the home market right to way down to the arcade level of (the utterly brilliant) Circuit Superstars, and I don't really care what control method those I'm racing against are using. As longs as the racing is fair and those taking part are enjoying it.

I tell my friends that I drive pretend/digital cars, GT is definitely not a simulator.

In all fairness, it is a sim, just at the 'lighter' end of the scale. Nothing wrong with that at all, it just makes @Junkman55 stance come across as an odd hill to pick for someone who seems to want to be seen as the sim racing elite.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Simcade I believe

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Simcade

That's a bit of a dirty word

 

[Zorz]

That's a bit of a dirty word

Arcadulator?

 

[AfraidRacer]

Arcadulator?

Now that sounds completely wrong.

GTS is a Racing Sim I guess, maybe not the most realistic, but it does simulate racing fairly well.

Oh yeah, congratulations to @Junkman55 for being such an expert troll, I applaud your skills Sir.

 

[Scaff]

Now that sounds completely wrong.

GTS is a Racing Sim I guess, maybe not the most realistic, but it does simulate racing fairly well.

Oh yeah, congratulations to @Junkman55 for being such an expert troll, I applaud your skills Sir.

It does a better job of simulating Motorsport than it does of simulated driving. Other titles still manage to be better Motorsport simulators, such as ACC.

 

[Junkman55]

Online Car racing with a DS4 could be considered gaming in Esports. The wheel setup takes online racing to a higher level in Esports it becomes a simulator. IRacing sells there online service as Simulator Racing not a game for gamers. Console racing like GTS is selling their software for two markets the online racing that fall into Esports and the AI racing for Gamers.

I would like to think that my experience of 15 years of competition Kart racing , Drag racing my Corvette on NHRA track. l could tell the different between a gaming and online sim racing. The Gamer is happy calling online sim racing using DS4 controller just a game no problem. Let the drivers who spends $500 or the drivers spending $2500 call online racing what ever he or she wants. The crossover to online racing is happening time will tell where it’s going.

 

[Johnnn]

Comparing a wheel and pad is not fair in GT because the pad is highly assisted.

 

[PJTierney]

Comparing a wheel and pad is not fair in GT because the pad is highly assisted.

Pads in every racing game are highly assisted.

Speed-sensitive steering is an industry standard at this point, very few games run without it.

 

[Spinerkopin]

Online Car racing with a DS4 could be considered gaming in Esports. The wheel setup takes online racing to a higher level in Esports it becomes a simulator. IRacing sells there online service as Simulator Racing not a game for gamers. Console racing like GTS is selling their software for two markets the online racing that fall into Esports and the AI racing for Gamers.

I would like to think that my experience of 15 years of competition Kart racing , Drag racing my Corvette on NHRA track. l could tell the different between a gaming and online sim racing. The Gamer is happy calling online sim racing using DS4 controller just a game no problem. Let the drivers who spends $500 or the drivers spending $2500 call online racing what ever he or she wants. The crossover to online racing is happing time will tell where it’s going.

All of this exeprience and still ranked D .

Troll confirmed. No point of waisting time here...

 

[Darla Starch]

No point of waisting time here...

On the other hand, this is thoroughly entertaining to read. What do?

 

[Spinerkopin]

On the other hand, this is thoroughly entertaining to read. What do?

Hmmm... I agree that could be funny to read his justifications

 

[Johnnn]

Pads in every racing game are highly assisted.

Speed-sensitive steering is an industry standard at this point, very few games run without it.

But GT could look like a sim.

It's not an assist, it's rather filter. Assists are active helpers from the game. Like counter-steering assist, car stabilization or steering assist (grip checking). You can't compare it with wheel users. You can in Assetto corsa as I remember correctly.

 

[Pigems]

Online Car racing with a DS4 could be considered gaming in Esports. The wheel setup takes online racing to a higher level in Esports it becomes a simulator. IRacing sells there online service as Simulator Racing not a game for gamers. Console racing like GTS is selling their software for two markets the online racing that fall into Esports and the AI racing for Gamers.

I would like to think that my experience of 15 years of competition Kart racing , Drag racing my Corvette on NHRA track. l could tell the different between a gaming and online sim racing. The Gamer is happy calling online sim racing using DS4 controller just a game no problem. Let the drivers who spends $500 or the drivers spending $2500 call online racing what ever he or she wants. The crossover to online racing is happening time will tell where it’s going.

You can call it whatever you want if it makes you feel better, but that doesn’t make it a simulator. Do you also tell your friends about the D rating?

 

[O604]

Definitions change. This is was a driving simulator at one point. Kind of looks like the World Tour.

 

[mclarenLB]

I wasn't actually going to contribute anything serious here because this thread is an absolute meme

But I would like to point out to those that aren't aware - GT Sport features a heavy amount of invisible countersteer/stability assistance, regardless of input method, regardless of assist settings.

This has more recently started to be discovered and leveraged by top players by dabbing the handbrake for rotation on hairpins to take a tenth off of certain laptimes.

Its not a simulator, at no point are you driving unassisted in this game even if it tells you that you are.

 

[Scaff]

Online Car racing with a DS4 could be considered gaming in Esports. The wheel setup takes online racing to a higher level in Esports it becomes a simulator.

Does the input method changethe physics?

Nope, so it remains a game within the simulator genre.

IRacing sells there online service as Simulator Racing not a game for gamers. Console racing like GTS is selling their software for two markets the online racing that fall into Esports and the AI racing for Gamers.

iRacings' EULA disagrees with you:

"The EasyAntiCheat Data will be used by EasyAntiCheat solely for the Purpose, including but not limited to identifying and banning players who are cheating in computer games, analyzing cheating behavior and cheating codes as well as sharing information about cheats with affiliates of EasyAntiCheat"
https://www.iracing.com/terms-use-eula/

I would like to think that my experience of 15 years of competition Kart racing , Drag racing my Corvette on NHRA track. l could tell the different between a gaming and online sim racing.

Good for you, but here's the rub, your experience is not unique and given that I would hope you would have been more aware of the limitations GTS has as a simulator.

The Gamer is happy calling online sim racing using DS4 controller just a game no problem. Let the drivers who spends $500 or the drivers spending $2500 call online racing what ever he or she wants. The crossover to online racing is happening time will tell where it’s going.

No one but you is attempting to insist what people call it.

 

[Johnnn]

I wasn't actually going to contribute anything serious here because this thread is an absolute meme

But I would like to point out to those that aren't aware - GT Sport features a heavy amount of invisible countersteer/stability assistance, regardless of input method, regardless of assist settings.

This has more recently started to be discovered and leveraged by top players by dabbing the handbrake for rotation on hairpins to take a tenth off of certain laptimes.

Its not a simulator, at no point are you driving unassisted in this game even if it tells you that you are.

Really? Do you have any source? If a wheel is assisted then it makes sense to compare with a pad But I don't think it's that much assisted. I haven't used a wheel with GTS so it's from other people only.

 

[mclarenLB]

Really? Do you have any source? If a wheel is assisted then it makes sense to compare with a pad But I don't think it's that much assisted. I haven't used a wheel with GTS so it's from other people only.

The "source" is the fastest method to take a hairpin in the X2019 (or several race cars for that matter) is to rip the handbrake and watch as the sheer force of god stabilises the car before the apex without countersteering.



Give that method a try in any simulator that doesn't have input layer assists and see how that ends up working out for you

 

[Groundfish]

I dunno if I’d call it assisted as much as forgiving. Is it an assist on top of the physics or the engine itself? It’s there though 100 percent.

To me they are all games anyways at the end of the day, all the physics systems have their issues. All tire models have their issues. I think a large case can be made that AC is better than ACC in some ways. Gts is better than AC in some ways. PC2 is better than all in some ways...
At the end of the day on console I choose GTS and it’s pretty fun. Beyond that Dr2. Nothing else gets playtime on my end. To me it all depends what you like best, the whole this games sim that ones not is just ridiculous and a semantics tool.

 

[Johnnn]

The "source" is the fastest method to take a hairpin in the X2019 (or several race cars for that matter) is to rip the handbrake and watch as the sheer force of god stabilises the car before the apex without countersteering.



Give that method a try in any simulator that doesn't have input layer assists and see how that ends up working out for you

Thanks. I trust you but it's very surprising after I read so many people like GT for its realism. It's highly assisted on a pad like nosimcade should be but wheel is new to me. I will research it more.

 

[Jwptexas]

All of this exeprience and still ranked D .

Troll confirmed. No point of waisting time here...

It's a shame this entire time this thread has been alive he hasn't managed to crawl his way out of that driver rating hole he's in even with an elite setup and years worth of real driving experience.

Honestly at driver rating D he's probably stuck playing with kids mostly and exclusively DS4 owners so it's probably frustrating knowing you're on a Wheel and not getting the expected results.

 

[mclarenLB]

I dunno if I’d call it assisted as much as forgiving. Is it an assist on top of the physics or the engine itself? It’s there though 100 percent.

That "forgiveness" you mention comes from input layer assists which are designed in such a way to be invisible to the average player.

Car handling is separate, the assist layer adds fractional inputs on your behalf to make the player perceive that they're driving unassisted, but in reality when driving on a pad or wheel in Gran Turismo, your steering/forces on the car are altered very subtly in various ways to make the game more accessible.

Its subtle, and its only the very very top world tour players which are now picking up on certain consistencies in these assists and are using them to their advantage to implement methods into their driving which are otherwise impossible.

 

[Jwptexas]

That "forgiveness" you mention comes from input layer assists which are designed in such a way to be invisible to the average player.

Car handling is separate, the assist layer adds fractional inputs on your behalf to make the player perceive that they're driving unassisted, but in reality when driving on a pad or wheel in Gran Turismo, your steering/forces on the car are altered very subtly in various ways to make the game more accessible.

Its subtle, and its only the very very top world tour players which are now picking up on certain consistencies in these assists and are using them to their advantage to implement methods into their driving which are otherwise impossible.

So that forgiveness is what's eating my tires?

 

[Pigems]

I dunno if I’d call it assisted as much as forgiving. Is it an assist on top of the physics or the engine itself? It’s there though 100 percent.

To me they are all games anyways at the end of the day, all the physics systems have their issues. All tire models have their issues. I think a large case can be made that AC is better than ACC in some ways. Gts is better than AC in some ways. PC2 is better than all in some ways...
At the end of the day on console I choose GTS and it’s pretty fun. Beyond that Dr2. Nothing else gets playtime on my end. To me it all depends what you like best, the whole this games sim that ones not is just ridiculous and a semantics tool.

@mclarenLB Is a world tour level driver, with world tour level information. If he says it is, I’m inclined to believe him. What do us plebs know that he doesn’t? 👍

 

[mclarenLB]

@mclarenLB Is a world tour level driver, with world tour level information. If he says it is, I’m inclined to believe him. What do us plebs know that he doesn’t? 👍

Yet I'm absolutely not competent enough to execute the methods I described

 

[Groundfish]

For Christ’s sake people I literally asked a question!
Is it the physics engine being forgiving or is it a background assist that could be turned off?
Anyone know for certain?
Is GTS the best simulator in the world that has assists added to keep things easy? Or is it the engine itself is lacking?
What’s with people today for crying out loud?

 

[Philtaylor17]

Why the anger?

I read it as, the handling/physics engine is its own thing, the game has built in assists that cannot be turned off ( unless PD re released the game without them perhaps - which i could never see happening )

GT is not the most sim oriented title, I don't think many people expect it to be. Doesn't need to reduce enjoyment.

Interesting information though, I wonder if it will be the same in 7...

 

[Johnnn]

But I think on a wheel it's different level. On a pad you know immediately something bad is there. On a wheel it would be unplayable with same assists.

edit:
Oh, it doesn't make much sense. But it would be very visible

 

[Timm Sheehan]

I have been following this thread, staying pretty quiet trying to glean some good ideas but the donkey in me wants to come out now.

At what point (money value) is the shift between gaming and simulator racer? If I spend €250 for a G29 wheel and pedal set is that enough or are we talking more along the lines of €1000? Is having a rig mandatory or will a small stand and a couch acceptable?

Sorry for the SPAM.