Gran Turismo Sport Cross Over To A Real Simulator To Satisfy The Wheel Market

[Pigems]

I have been following this thread, staying pretty quiet trying to glean some good ideas but the donkey in me wants to come out now.

At what point (money value) is the shift between gaming and simulator racer? If I spend €250 for a G29 wheel and pedal set is that enough or are we talking more along the lines of €1000? Is having a rig mandatory or will a small stand and a couch acceptable?

Sorry for the SPAM.

I don’t think it’s hardware related, the game itself it was makes it a sim or not.

 

[Groundfish]

read it as, the handling/physics engine is its own thing, the game has built in assists that cannot be turned off ( unless PD re released the game without them perhaps - which i could never see happening )

This is the distinction I was trying to make. Are they added or is it the engine itself. That’s all.
If they are added it would be simple for them to turn off. If it’s just the engine, not so much. I’ve not questioned the presence of excessive forgiveness that’s been obvious a long time.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

For Christ’s sake people I literally asked a question!
Is it the physics engine being forgiving or is it a background assist that could be turned off?
Anyone know for certain?
Is GTS the best simulator in the world that has assists added to keep things easy? Or is it the engine itself is lacking?
What’s with people today for crying out loud?

I thought that was a rhetorical question.
Anyway, it can't be turned off.
And I am sure it will be similar in GT7, PD or Sony won't risk accessibility to the game.
Making it more sim and less accessible will cut down the player base and no one wants that

 

[Johnnn]

This is the distinction I was trying to make. Are they added or is it the engine itself. That’s all.
If they are added it would be simple for them to turn off. If it’s just the engine, not so much. I’ve not questioned the presence of excessive forgiveness that’s been obvious a long time.

Usually you have normal physics engine and then some layers above it. It should be very easy to make options to disable everything. That's what I want from next GT but it's there for a long time so most of the people could be very angry Even ACC added similar helper like GT has for pad users. But you can disable it there. GT is not ACC...

 

[FPV MIC]

The "source" is the fastest method to take a hairpin in the X2019 (or several race cars for that matter) is to rip the handbrake and watch as the sheer force of god stabilises the car before the apex without countersteering.



Give that method a try in any simulator that doesn't have input layer assists and see how that ends up working out for you

Unfortunately that style of driving is nothing new to the GT series. Some of the top aliens were using that same handbrake method back in the GT 6 Time Trials.

 

[mohitraina91]

As a relatively newbie to GTSport, some great discussion here on the GTSport engine, learning quite a bit, as I'm sure others here would

Also great info here regarding DS4 vs. wheel, looks like people like me can improve without investing in a wheel

 

[Junkman55]

Marketing being the keyword here.


You play games as well, like it or not racing sims are a genre within the video games industry.

You seem very nervous about your friends thinking you play video games, which makes nailing your 'sim' credentials to GTS all the odder, given that it's about as 'light' a sim as you can get. I mean even on the Playstation you could get far more 'willy waving' about this if you wanted to, and that seems to be your aim here. You don't want to be seen to be playing games and don't want to be mixed in with those who use a gamepad, which makes both your choice of title and platform all the odder as a hill to die on.

Myself, I play racing games, stretching from as full-blown a sim as you can get for the home market right to way down to the arcade level of (the utterly brilliant) Circuit Superstars, and I don't really care what control method those I'm racing against are using. As longs as the racing is fair and those taking part are enjoying it.


In all fairness, it is a sim, just at the 'lighter' end of the scale. Nothing wrong with that at all, it just makes @Junkman55 stance come across as an odd hill to pick for someone who seems to want to be seen as the sim racing elite.

I don’t think you can tell if I play like gamers on DS4 or I race with a simulator that has all the controls of most real race cars. My driving accomplishments has nerve been about impressing gamers it been only trying to out drive the other drivers that have qualifying times like mind. I only have to impress 10 to 20 drivers trying to pass one or winning a race . Their choice of controller makes them a gamer or simulator driver. There is a difference in controller I would think their must be a difference in driver ability.

One race for simulator Drivers may be in the future for PD and GTS , this may bring the fairness standard in to online racing and fix the system of penalties with only one controller for testing.

 

[Scaff]

I don’t think you can tell if I play like gamers on DS4 or I race with a simulator that has all the controls of most real race cars. My driving accomplishments has nerve been about impressing gamers it been only trying to out drive the other drivers that have qualifying times like mind. I only have to impress 10 to 20 drivers trying to pass one or winning a race . Their choice of controller makes them a gamer or simulator driver. There is a difference in controller I would think their must be a difference in driver ability.

One race for simulator Drivers may be in the future for PD and GTS , this may bring the fairness standard in to online racing and fix the system of penalties with only one controller for testing.

Well, I'm going to be honest, that makes no sense at all.

What exactly are you attempting to say here?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

One race for simulator Drivers may be in the future for PD and GTS , this may bring the fairness standard in to online racing and fix the system of penalties with only one controller for testing.

That's an interesting idea. Hypothetically we follow your suggestion and ban one controller input which would obviously be the toy steering wheels since they're the minority (kick 'em over to iRacing or Trackmania) would you still allow people to use the Dualshock motion control or is that a different controller input? Would I still be allowed to accelerate with R2? Would @Adam Barber still be allowed to accelerate with the X button?

I look forward to your reply...

 

[daan]

The controller doesn't decide whether a player is a gamer or a "simulator driver." That's down to the game, but essentially all games are simulations anyway because you aren't actually doing that thing. You're not shooting someone in the head, you're playing COD. You're not actually driving, you're playing GT/I Racing/ACC/Pole Position/Outrun/etc. You haven't actually taken an arrow in the knee, you're playing Skyrim. You're not actually running down corridors eating pills and being chased by ghosts, you're playing Pacman.

Whether the game is realistic or not, you are still playing it.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

I am separating out my comments . . .

(snip snip) My driving accomplishments has nerve been about impressing gamers it been only trying to out drive the other drivers that have qualifying times like mind. I only have to impress 10 to 20 drivers trying to pass one or winning a race . (snip snip)

As so it should be, this is not a racing game/simulator that one can gain notoriety or fame by impressing the masses (especially because of the 100K racers currently active you might only race the 3-5 of same drivers every online race). In my opinion it should be for you and only you. That is what I base my racing on.

(snip snip) Their choice of controller makes them a gamer or simulator driver. There is a difference in controller I would think their must be a difference in driver ability. (snip snip)

Sure, there are difference between controller drivers vs wheel drivers. There are also differences between controller drivers vs controller drivers, wheel drivers vs wheel drivers, old drivers vs young drivers . . . I could go on.

(snip snip) One race for simulator Drivers may be in the future for PD and GTS , this may bring the fairness standard in to online racing and fix the system of penalties with only one controller for testing.

Separating driver by method of vehicle control? I am not sure how this would bring a sense of fairness into the racing. To date (through all your previous posts) you have not really provided adequate facts to support your position. Please provide them so I can understand your position better. What is your stance on separating out the different wheel types in races? Should direct drive rigs be racing non-direct drive rigs? Should G29 rigs be racing Fanatec rigs? I sure there is a difference in quality.

I believe the penalty system is not related to whether a racer is using a controller or wheel. Could you explain this as well?

 

[RacingGrandpa]

The only reason I can think of as to why @Junkman55 wants the control modes separated is because he feels the controllers has an unfair advantage over him.
But that's not the case. As one move higher and higher in the ranks of GTS there is an increasingly number of wheel users but there is never a point where there are no controller users.
And at DR D the overwhelming majority of drivers are controller users.
So if the inputs where separated it might be less resistance in his own DR but he would be mixed up with a increasingly higher skill level.
I don't think that's what he wants....

 

[killerjimbag]

Online Car racing with a DS4 could be considered gaming in Esports. The wheel setup takes online racing to a higher level in Esports it becomes a simulator. IRacing sells there online service as Simulator Racing not a game for gamers. Console racing like GTS is selling their software for two markets the online racing that fall into Esports and the AI racing for Gamers.

I would like to think that my experience of 15 years of competition Kart racing , Drag racing my Corvette on NHRA track. l could tell the different between a gaming and online sim racing. The Gamer is happy calling online sim racing using DS4 controller just a game no problem. Let the drivers who spends $500 or the drivers spending $2500 call online racing what ever he or she wants. The crossover to online racing is happening time will tell where it’s going.

What,are you smoking? Driving on a drag strip has absolutely nothing to do with "Sim Racing"
If that was a fact,my 40 years if doing it would put me on par with Lewis 🤬 Hamilton. Get over your wheel makes you a Sim Racer crap. Move on and think about something else.

 

[Darla Starch]

Get over your wheel makes you a Sim Racer crap. Move on and think about something else.

The correct term is simulator racing.

 

[Jump_Ace]

I feel the same way about Pacman. While other use a joystick. I prefer to use my mouth, like Pacman would, because he has no hands. Using hands totally diminishes the realism. I wouldn't call it cheating but deep down I know I'm a much better Pacman.

You must be awesome. I find players on any controller challenging.

[/thread]


Jerome

 

[Junkman55]

Am I guessing, but am I the only one getting spot advertising from companies selling simulator hardware like wheel setup and sim cockpits, while writhing this post. If you are getting there advertisements maybe you should take a look and see who they are selling to. My guess it’s Simulator Drivers , Online Racing Drivers and Gamers who are looking for a racing experience the DS4 controller can not do.

 

[FPV MIC]

Am I guessing, but am I the only one getting spot advertising from companies selling simulator hardware like wheel setup and sim cockpits, while writhing this post. If you are getting there advertisements maybe you should take a look and see who they are selling to. My guess it’s Simulator Drivers , Online Racing Drivers and Gamers who are looking for a racing experience the DS4 controller can not do.

This is my rig...

... but due to Rheumatoid Arthritis and a wrist that's twice it's normal size I'm using that white thing on the corner of my rig and guess what? My racing experience hasn't changed or been diminished in the slightest. All that's changed is the input method to that white box.

 

[O604]

If anything using a PS5 is cheating. Shame on you for cheating.

If this guilt trip is working, please send me your PS5.

 

[FPV MIC]

If anything using a PS5 is cheating. Shame on you for cheating.

If this guilt trip is working, please send me your PS5.

 

[Junkman55]

This is my rig...

View attachment 997606

... but due to Rheumatoid Arthritis and a wrist that's twice it's normal size I'm using that white thing on the corner of my rig and guess what? My racing experience hasn't changed or been diminished in the slightest. All that's changed is the input method to that white box.

Nice setup you have the T-GT wheel is what I am using I think it made GTS better for us. I am using a Sparco R383 option wheel to help with my hands from cramping up , you might want to ask your doctor if that is a option for you.

 

[killerjimbag]

Am I guessing, but am I the only one getting spot advertising from companies selling simulator hardware like wheel setup and sim cockpits, while writhing this post. If you are getting there advertisements maybe you should take a look and see who they are selling to. My guess it’s Simulator Drivers , Online Racing Drivers and Gamers who are looking for a racing experience the DS4 controller can not do.

Uhm no. It's called advertising and clearly it worked as you bought whatever ad that appeared on your browser. So my friend that has no legs is supposed to do what? Stop your nonsense.

 

[AfraidRacer]

@Junkman55 if you would like to have a wheel-only competition, go to the World Tour. No controllers allowed there.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

If anything using a PS5 is cheating. Shame on you for cheating.

If this guilt trip is working, please send me your PS5.

They do get the unfair advantage of leaving the pits earlier for qualifying...

 

[fastone371]

What,are you smoking? Driving on a drag strip has absolutely nothing to do with "Sim Racing"
If that was a fact,my 40 years if doing it would put me on par with Lewis 🤬 Hamilton. Get over your wheel makes you a Sim Racer crap. Move on and think about something else.

I suppose that depends on how fast of a car you are driving. Most other racers look down on drag racers driving ability but it is not so easy to keep from wadding up a $150K car when it turns sideways at over 150mph. There are a lot of people who have the money to buy a fast car but have limited racing experience. I know one who put his 2500HP car in the wall on his shake down pass and rides a wheel chair now.

 

[killerjimbag]

I suppose that depends on how fast of a car you are driving. Most other racers look down on drag racers driving ability but it is not so easy to keep from wadding up a $150K car when it turns sideways at over 150mph. There are a lot of people who have the money to buy a fast car but have limited racing experience. I know one who put his 2500HP car in the wall on his shake down pass and rides a wheel chair now.

I'm assuming if he "Sim" races he's using a controller now.

 

[Groundfish]

I think what’s great about GTS is that however you choose or are able to play it, all can compete in a fair contest of skill.
That’s a good game/sim.

 

[BlimeyCable]

I think what’s great about GTS is that however you choose or are able to play it, all can compete in a fair contest of skill.
That’s a good
I agree

 

[FPV MIC]

They do get the unfair advantage of leaving the pits earlier for qualifying...

I'm not sure if you're serious or not but if you are then that would also apply to people with PS4 pro's vs base PS4 and probably for people with better ping as well.

Edit: So for me, coming from a base PS4 to PS5 and living in a country with potato internet I'd say it all evens out

 

[Yard_Sale]

t a fanatec/playseat challenge combo 6 months ago for my birthday. I was B/S before I got it. Guess what??.....I’m still B/S

but admittedly I am way more consistent than I used to be, and I’m having way more fun than I was already having. I don’t care what if GT was the most Sim-liscious title out there. It’s arguably the most fun. It’s sim enough for me.

I do think it would be cool if PD every few weeks replaced daily race A with a cool GR.4-2 combo. Make it FIA style with maybe not qualifying for each race...but you had to set a new qually each day. Damage on, tire wear and fuel usage turned up enough where there was some strategy involved.

LOCK IN cockpit view for realism.

I think that would satisfy the guys who wanted the most realistic experience. Controller or Wheel welcome.

DO it PD!!!!

 

[RacingGrandpa]

LOCK IN cockpit view for realism.

I think that would satisfy the guys who wanted the most realistic experience. Controller or Wheel welcome.

You had me up to this point.
Why the lock in? To me it wouldn't make a difference what view the other drivers have.