Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Johnnypenso]

Assuming the road in the game is some type of grippier ashphalt and that PD modeled it that way as well is a bit of a stretch don't you think? There is no proof of either claim let alone both of them together.

 

[McLaren]

This is pretty much everywhere in the UK. and as that company is Australian, I'm sure it is everywhere there, too.

There is no other reason for roads that look like this.

Being sure is not proof. It's a company that provides a product & doesn't prove Japan uses it on its highways.

 

[mister dog]

Being sure is not proof. It's a company that provides a product & doesn't prove Japan uses it on its highways.

Nor that it will prevent a Bugatti from understeering into a barrier at 200 k's an hour.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Did anyone bother to watch the F 458 Challenge video at Daytona 24h I posted several page before in response to that Bugatti gif ? 5th gear left hander, similar speed, similar behavior. I don't think we can't judge if the Bugattti understeer, and by how much just by looking 2s gif. Is this just looking for faults or making it look bad ? Anyone got a clue of what tires fitted on the Bugatti ?

 

[nasanu]

Being sure is not proof. It's a company that provides a product & doesn't prove Japan uses it on its highways.

What are you looking for proof of? I can tell you first hand that the red stuff in tokyo is grippy. But what does this have to do with GTS? Noway are PD modeling the tracks to to meter by meter grip levels and the car motion in the video can be explained without it.

 

[nowcontrol]

Assuming the road in the game is some type of grippier ashphalt and that PD modeled it that way as well is a bit of a stretch don't you think? There is no proof of either claim let alone both of them together.

Why not?? Tokyo would have it laid down for safety reasons and Kaz would know about that i'm sure, so again, why not??

 

[McLaren]

What are you looking for proof of? I can tell you first hand that the red stuff in tokyo is grippy. But what does this have to do with GTS? Noway are PD modeling the tracks to to meter by meter grip levels and the car motion in the video can be explained without it.

According to nowcontrol, PD did.

 

[nowcontrol]

According to nowcontrol, PD did.

I never said they did, I was just proposing an opinion that maybe they could have, which would explain why the Bugatti does not under-steer into the barriers if all assists are OFF of course.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The Bugatti also seems to reduce speed there while turning, looking at the rev meter and the road seems to have elevation which should helped turning in.

 

[Imari]

Your suggestion is incorrect. I'm making assumptions...

Well, you sure told me.

 

[nowcontrol]

More from Aus....

 

[McLaren]

I never said they did, I was just proposing an opinion that maybe they could have, which would explain why the Bugatti does not under-steer into the barriers if all assists are OFF of course.

You said nothing of assists before, but ok. Even if that is what is going on, it doesn't change mister dog's point either about slowing a car going 200kph from understeering into a wall.

Otherwise the cars in your picture above might as well brake at the very last second if that material works that well against a race car.

 

[7HO]

What the 10 second thing? Who cars. We don't actually know what happened, being a kids race some kind of boost might have been applied. Either way that would disqualify the no assists requirement.

And you don't code to explain a 10 second difference either. I was 3.5 seconds a lap faster than some GTP members in the leagues I used to race in, they were experienced racers dedicated enough to be on here. Could I be 10 seconds a lap faster than a kid on track nobody knows with cars we have not driven in a race where the adults are likely holding back for the kids? Sure.



While I dont know the specific section of road PD copied, I know the red stuff on the road on my way to work (in shinjuku tokyo) is as grippy as a world GTP won't let me say. Its like sandpaper. BUT... Nobody really believes PD is modeling different track grip levels at different points of the track. That video is something else, my bet is assists.

We do know though or do you think that PD put a kid who is over 10 seconds faster per lap in the race? This kid caught up to 3 people who were all racing neck and neck. If he hadn't crashed he would have won by something like 20-30 seconds if we are to believe there wasn't any boost involved.

So that would indicate boost or rubberbanding, for online racing? Keep in mind this is what they are showing off. That is physics or the lack of realistic physics. So when we talk about 10 second per lap you need to realise that even a massive increase in power alone wouldn't make up this type of gain, it would also take altering other physics.

Here is what we know, the pre race options including assists have been shown to us in youtube videos and boost or catch up wasn't a assist so any implementation is actually programmed into the game and again this was a demonstration of online play for an esports title. It seems like you want to intentionally ignore the issue here as it really doesn't get worse than this, boost in online esports. Remember this is a 7 to 77 title and I fall in the middle. How is boost determined and applied? Simply put any form of boost is unacceptable and any game that has boost does not have and can't claim to have realistic physics. We really don't need to go beyond that, it is clear to those who are unbiased that this game is currently unrealistic and PD have put on a poor showing.

Keep in mind I've been talking up this game and speaking about how good it could be. After seeing that there is no way I would consider buying this as it has been demonstrated.

They just spent thousands, their brain will tell them its better whether its better or not. You can give people the cheapest steak or wine and provided they are also made to think it's expensive they will tell you they both taste amazing. DD wheels might be amazing but the testimony of people who have invested a lot of their own money is not worth much.

You might be like this, I'm not and I have watched those same people switch from the more expensive option to the cheaper option and declare the cheaper option is better. But the fact you believe this is true for most people speaks more to your credibility than the credibility of others. Clearly you are easily influenced and think most people are the same. I am not and tend to give people who demonstrate critical and free thinking the benefit of doubt.

Well, you sure told me.

Based on marketing material vs sources not related to marketing material. Yes I did.

 

[gtracedriver1]

But it does show the actual trajectory then even if the points at which it intervals would be displayed wrongly?
The way that Bugatti carries too much speed into the corner and understeers straight on he should have hit the wall. But instead we see a quick mid corner twitch of the steering wheel and he gets it back on line without any trouble.

Usually their car is so heavy and refuse to turn. TBH it is refreshing to see a Bugatti as responsiveness as this. Here is the video which is much better than gif.

 

[7HO]

LOL and would you look at that, no assists. It is also amazing that the strange behaviour is present on every coloured surface in that video.

 

[Earth]

That Bugatti look like its using the 'standard' physics from GT5P

 

[nowcontrol]

LOL and would you look at that, no assists. It is also amazing that the strange behaviour is present on every coloured surface in that video.

Don't be silly...

There is clearly much less under-steering and tyre screeching on the safety surface.

 

[nasanu]

LOL and would you look at that, no assists. It is also amazing that the strange behaviour is present on every coloured surface in that video.

Yeah actually if you go to 3:05 you hear the tyre squeal stop as soon as the car hits the red track. So I was wrong, PD are actually modeling the grip levels of that road surface. The physics are actually better than I thought.

 

[gtracedriver1]

That Bugatti look like its using the 'standard' physics from GT5P

Didn't very car in GT5P understeer. Bugatti seems to be awesome but if I remember SRT VGT are closest thing to RB car

 

[7HO]

LOL @nowcontrol

@Earth I was thinking similar and it reminded me of my initial reaction to when I read comments of Kaz talking about GT Sport and refering to the early GT titles in regards to how easy they are to drive and then talk about physics. When I read that I was worried.

It is funny how different people can have totally different responses to a game, one guy says the physics are great another says the opposite. Then those of us who can only comment on what we have seen are told we can't judge it because we haven't driven it. So following up with earlier comments I made here is some evidence that backs up what some of us are thinking we can see in the videos.

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/8-...-gran-turismo-sport-after-a-hands-on-preview/

"Handling is a bit soft and floaty, but it is fun
When it comes to physics, one of the hardest things to replicate is the feeling of the car being attached to the tarmac with the tyres digging into the black stuff as you turn. This is where GT really falls down, as the cars feel a lot like they’re floatingacross the tarmac. It’s fairly difficult to gauge how hard you’re braking or whether you’re really leaning on the limits of grip in a corner.

That said, the physics engine does make for fun racing. It might not feel totally realistic, but the learning curve is fairly quick - I hadn’t played GT for the best part of a decade, and it only took me a race or two to get the hang of things and up the AI difficulty to its highest setting. The Nordschleife was great fun, obviously, but the floaty feel was amplified as the car wasn’t unsettled by bumps as it would be in real life.

My main in-race gripe is that my favourite camera, the one attached to the front bumper, doesn’t feel like it’s attached to the furthest point forward. In Project Cars and Forza, I can hold the car close to the rear of an opponent without hitting them, but I kept finding myself ramming other cars when I thought I had space to play with. A small problem, but infuriating when it kills your momentum.

The audio still needs work
The audio in Gran Turismo has been the butt of many jokes. It’s always been seriously lacking, but apparently it’s been worked on for this game. Well, they need to work a bit harder. The cars sound artificial, and nothing like their real-life counterparts.

When you’re really in the zone you don’t notice, but once you do it takes you out of the moment. I also found myself having to rely on the tachometer when it came to shifting, as the engine sounds didn’t give much indication that you might be rocketing towards the red line.

Personally, it’s not enough to put me off the game, but it does frustrate me. Surely the team is aware its audio is mocked, so all efforts should be made to poach engineers from other games to ensure it’s perfect this time around. If Polyphonyhas pulled out all the stops to make the audio perfect, then there’s really no hope."

Now who to believe?

Yeah actually if you go to 3:05 you hear the tyre squeal stop as soon as the car hits the red track. So I was wrong, PD are actually modeling the grip levels of that road surface. The physics are actually better than I thought.

You are still wrong, the physics are weird on every surface in that video, not just on the red surface. But it is evidence to your bias and refusal to accept the evidence when it is presented and as I have presented here there are those who have actually tested the game also and their opinions are much more like what the rest of us are seeing in these videos.

 

[nasanu]

We do know though or do you think that PD put a kid who is over 10 seconds faster per lap in the race? This kid caught up to 3 people who were all racing neck and neck. If he hadn't crashed he would have won by something like 20-30 seconds if we are to believe there wasn't any boost involved.

So that would indicate boost or rubberbanding, for online racing? Keep in mind this is what they are showing off. That is physics or the lack of realistic physics. So when we talk about 10 second per lap you need to realise that even a massive increase in power alone wouldn't make up this type of gain, it would also take altering other physics.

Here is what we know, the pre race options including assists have been shown to us in youtube videos and boost or catch up wasn't a assist so any implementation is actually programmed into the game and again this was a demonstration of online play for an esports title. It seems like you want to intentionally ignore the issue here as it really doesn't get worse than this, boost in online esports. Remember this is a 7 to 77 title and I fall in the middle. How is boost determined and applied? Simply put any form of boost is unacceptable and any game that has boost does not have and can't claim to have realistic physics. We really don't need to go beyond that, it is clear to those who are unbiased that this game is currently unrealistic and PD have put on a poor showing.

Keep in mind I've been talking up this game and speaking about how good it could be. After seeing that there is no way I would consider buying this as it has been demonstrated.



You might be like this, I'm not and I have watched those same people switch from the more expensive option to the cheaper option and declare the cheaper option is better. But the fact you believe this is true for most people speaks more to your credibility than the credibility of others. Clearly you are easily influenced and think most people are the same. I am not and tend to give people who demonstrate critical and free thinking the benefit of doubt.


Based on marketing material vs sources not related to marketing material. Yes I did.

Not even sure what you are ranting about anymore. What does age groups have to do with physics? First its marketing, now its driver age... You just seem to want to find any angle to hate on the game. Boost = unrealistic physics even if it's not turned on (nor even confirmed)? Not going to bother with your lack of reasoned argument anymore.

 

[7HO]

Not even sure what you are ranting about anymore. What does age groups have to do with physics? First its marketing, now its driver age... You just seem to want to find any angle to hate on the game. Boost = unrealistic physics even if it's not turned on (nor even confirmed)? Not going to both with your lack of reasoned argument anymore.

No you brought marketing into it not me in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...r-box-concludes.337545/page-531#post-11406457 I'm not sure I even mentioned the word.

Then you brought age into it in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...r-box-concludes.337545/page-532#post-11406546 and my posts are simply reponses to your posts.

But of course you will cut and run now because the evidence has now been provided to you multiple times and don't want to address it because you can't.

As I said we can see the physics are out in the videos.

We can see an unrealistic catch up.

We can see weird behaviour and we met your requirements of actual gameplay with no assists.

Further I have provided a first hand account that not only contradicts what you are claiming but verifies our fears from what we are seeing in the videos.

But your best argument Is that you don't understand what topics you introduced in your posts have to do with the argument, so I am wrong because you disagree with yourself? Perfect logic.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The word float often used by reviewer on different racing games, rarely they describe in more detail what makes them wrote float/floating. I think I read long ago Pcars being floaty, Forza and God knows how many other racing games got the float treatment, I doubt the term float is a good/fair description, not when the one uses it often do not make more explanation than just that, it floats, drives like a boat, no feel etc ( useless IMO )

The only reviewer I could trust is myself or anyone I knew close enough who have enough experience in the subject and not bias, like @Mike_grpA

 

[7HO]

The word float often used by reviewer on different racing games, rarely they describe in more detail what makes them wrote float/floating. I think I read long ago Pcars being floaty, Forza and God knows how many other racing games got the float treatment, I doubt the term float is a good/fair description, not when the one uses it often do not make more explanation than just that, it floats, drives like a boat, no feel etc ( useless IMO )

The only reviewer I could trust is myself or anyone I knew close enough who have enough experience in the subject and not bias, like @Mike_grpA

Float usually refers to a level of feeling of disconnect with the road surface and this reviewer verifies that is what he means in the first paragraph I quoted. He goes on to say the floaty feeling is amplified by how the car doesn't respond realistically to bumps.

Driving like a boat usually refers to something different, cars that wobble around and are unresponsive are usually described as driving like a boat. No feel is exactly what it describes. If these terms are being used correctly as by this reviewer it is easy to understand what the term refers to. Of course if you are reading a review by a kid who has no experience with these things and he uses the incorrect terms then it can be confusing.

As examples. When I first joined iRacing the Star Mazda was well known to feel floaty because it felt so disconnected it actually felt like you were floating on air. The Toyota Corolla I once drove with stuffed shocks drove like a boat.

 

[nowcontrol]

I think what the term floaty means is that they don't actually feel like they are pulling their weight on the tarmac and are either made of some super alien alloys that weigh two toenail clippings per cubic inch and possibly also have their tyres inflated with helium.

To me for the games I have played, GT is the least floaty mcboatface of them all.

also what ^he^ said.

 

[FPV MIC]

You are still wrong, the physics are weird on every surface in that video, not just on the red surface. But it is evidence to your bias and refusal to accept the evidence when it is presented and as I have presented here there are those who have actually tested the game also and their opinions are much more like what the rest of us are seeing in these videos.

Don't you mean what you are seeing?

Further I have provided a first hand account that not only contradicts what you are claiming but verifies our fears from what we are seeing in the videos.

Also your fears, not mine. I do not judge the physics of a game by a car with high aero and race tyres on a relatively flat track in a replay.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Float usually refers to a level of feeling of disconnect with the road surface and this reviewer verifies that is what he means in the first paragraph I quoted. He goes on to say the floaty feeling is amplified by how the car doesn't respond realistically to bumps.

Driving like a boat usually refers to something different, cars that wobble around and are unresponsive are usually described as driving like a boat. No feel is exactly what it describes. If these terms are being used correctly as by this reviewer it is easy to understand what the term refers to. Of course if you are reading a review by a kid who has no experience with these things and he uses the incorrect terms then it can be confusing.

A real car can have all those things, need to go into details, which car, which part of the track with bumps ( is it relevant to the car driven/setup with stiff or soft spring/damper etc ), what causes it ( FFB/wheel issue or actual physics ) etc.

I think what the term floaty means is that they don't actually feel like they are pulling their weight on the tarmac and are either made of some super alien alloys that weigh two toenail clippings per cubic inch and possibly also have their tyres inflated with helium.

To me for the games I have played, GT is the least floaty mcboatface of them all.

also what ^he^ said.

Ever driven a real car with drive by wire tech, electronic damper/suspension, variable assisted steering etc, they can be very dead in feel ( heavy sedan with soft suspension for comfort like a big boat ), do the floaty feel in game similar to real car feel ?

This is why I don't like reviewer using the term float or boat in sweeping generalization, it is misleading most of the time.

 

[Imari]

Based on marketing material vs sources not related to marketing material. Yes I did.

Yes, you told me that you're not basing it on information from the manufacturer, you're just making your assumptions up whole cloth. That sure is an improvement.

My main in-race gripe is that my favourite camera, the one attached to the front bumper, doesn’t feel like it’s attached to the furthest point forward.

It's actually not. It's located in the centre of the car, and the car model is invisible. It catches a lot of people out because it's really unintuitive.

Someone did a bunch of math with geometry and camera angles to prove it in GT6 once, but I forget where.

 

[azeeza]

No you brought marketing into it not me in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...r-box-concludes.337545/page-531#post-11406457 I'm not sure I even mentioned the word.

Then you brought age into it in this post https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...r-box-concludes.337545/page-532#post-11406546 and my posts are simply reponses to your posts.

But of course you will cut and run now because the evidence has now been provided to you multiple times and don't want to address it because you can't.

As I said we can see the physics are out in the videos.

We can see an unrealistic catch up.

We can see weird behaviour and we met your requirements of actual gameplay with no assists.

Further I have provided a first hand account that not only contradicts what you are claiming but verifies our fears from what we are seeing in the videos.

But your best argument Is that you don't understand what topics you introduced in your posts have to do with the argument, so I am wrong because you disagree with yourself? Perfect logic.

You forget a point about the Bugatti Video, you judge the physic from the cockpit view, and we all know that the wheel is not reproduced at 1:1, that s why you ll find some weird behavior as watcher. And from what i saw, the driver is a beginner, so it s evident he s not smooth on the turn driving, and turned so much in these sections
It s not rocket science

 

[nowcontrol]

It's actually not. It's located in the centre of the car, and the car model is invisible. It catches a lot of people out because it's really unintuitive.

This is why I stick with chase-cam mostly, I know where my side panels is at when I can see them.

Ever driven a real car

I don't drive. I did once drive an Escort XR3i Cabriolet on private grounds when I was 14-15 but I doubt that counts for much.