Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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From the Gran Turismo Website:

3 liveries can be selected for the 'McLaren Ultimate Vision Gran Turismo', from ‘Performance’, ‘Ulterior’ and ‘Noir’. We hope you will experience the sensory overload of incredible sound and awe-inspiring acceleration in ‘Gran Turismo Sport’, due to release soon.
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Does it mean the livery editor will only be available to certain cars?
 
Lord Kacperov
There were, however, 50 people credited as car modelers in the GT6 End movie, according to an older post by @Johnnypenso, I think.
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Yes, and that was back when the number routinely used for PD staffing was 110. It's almost double that now. It's an obvious reason why people in general are taking issue with the low car count in this game.
 
Johnnypenso
Yes, and that was back when the number routinely used for PD staffing was 110. It's almost double that now. It's an obvious reason why people in general are taking issue with the low car count in this game.
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Weren't there 140 people working for PDI around the time GT6 released? I think there were 110 people at PDI before GT5 released.
 
Lord Kacperov
Weren't there 140 people working for PDI around the time GT6 released? I think there were 110 people at PDI before GT5 released.
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I'm not sure exact figures at exact times are available. I recall 110-130 in the GT5/6 era. Either way, the staffing is dramatically increased and the car count seems low for the size of the company in the eyes of a lot of people.
 
Johnnypenso
Yes, and that was back when the number routinely used for PD staffing was 110. It's almost double that now. It's an obvious reason why people in general are taking issue with the low car count in this game.
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I think the more pertinent point is: why are you so troubled by the car count that you feel the need to 'take issue' with it?

I'm OK with the number, I think it's about right, considering the very high quality. I thought 1000 was too much in previous games. Am I wrong?

Also, 'people in general'...? 'In the eyes of a lot of people'...? Lol. If you have an opinion on this, just have the balls to say "I'm unhappy with it" - no need for this make-believe horde of people backing up your point.
 
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jm79
I think the more pertinent point is: why are you so troubled by the car count that you feel the need to 'take issue' with it?

I'm OK with the number, I think it's about right, considering the very high quality. I thought 1000 was too much in previous games. Am I wrong?

Also, 'people in general'...? 'In the eyes of a lot of people'...? Lol. If you have an opinion on this, just have the balls to say "I'm unhappy with it" - no need for this make-believe horde of people backing up your point.
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The more pertinent point is why do you have to play the man and not the ball? The conversation started with this:
MidFieldMaven
I think people forget GT1 and GT3 had under 200 cars. I doubt this is the end of 500+ car GT's.
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It's quite clear from these forums that there are more than a few members unimpressed with the car count and I'm offering up my take as to why that might be. Try disputing the points made instead of turning to the man and making thinly veiled insults.
 
Johnnypenso
The more pertinent point is why do you have to play the man and not the ball? The conversation started with this:It's quite clear from these forums that there are more than a few members unimpressed with the car count and I'm offering up my take as to why that might be. Try disputing the points made instead of turning to the man and making thinly veiled insults.
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I shall, therefore, play the ball, good sir.

I think that it is generally accepted, and is quite clear among these forums, and among the throng of my opinion acolytes, who shall remain nameless, that basically, what I say about car count is right. But then I'm essentially just totally impartial, like your good self.

150 is a perfect number, many will agree, and totally acceptable as the output for a team of roughly 200 people, not all of whom, quite obviously, are car modellers.

Better, old mucker?
 
jm79
I think the more pertinent point is: why are you so troubled by the car count that you feel the need to 'take issue' with it?

I'm OK with the number, I think it's about right, considering the very high quality. I thought 1000 was too much in previous games. Am I wrong?

Also, 'people in general'...? 'In the eyes of a lot of people'...? Lol. If you have an opinion on this, just have the balls to say "I'm unhappy with it" - no need for this make-believe horde of people backing up your point.
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I'm okay with the number too, but a lot of people aren't. And it's not surprising.

To know what I'm talking about, we need to do some math:

One car modeler takes around 6 months to make one car. There were 50 car modelers credited in the GT6 End Movie. That means every car modeler will make about two cars every year, and this game was in development for about 4 years (2013/2014-2017). This means that every year, around 100 cars are completed in terms of modeling by the 50 car modelers. This means that around 400 cars would be modeled in that time period. But we will only have 150 cars at launch. Pretty strange, no?

Well, perhaps not. Remember that the car sounds also have to be made as good as possible, and with GT Sport the sounds have dramatically improved. And the cars also need to have a unique and authentic feel to their handling, and apparently this has improved with GT Sport (more specifically the first one, the second one maybe not because of the in-game BoP).

Conclusion? I have no clue.
 
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Lord Kacperov
I'm okay with the number too, but a lot of people aren't. And it's not surprising.

To know what I'm talking about, we need to do some math:

One car modeler takes around 6 months to make one car. There were 50 car modelers credited in the GT6 End Movie. That means every car modeler will make about two cars every year, and this game was in development for about 4 years (2013/2014-2017). This means that every year, around 100 cars are completed in terms of modeling by the 50 car modelers. This means that around 400 cars would be modeled in that time period. But we will only have 150 cars at launch. Pretty strange, no?

Well, perhaps not. Remember that the car sounds also have to be made as good as possible, and with GT Sport the sounds have dramatically improved. And the cars also need to have a unique and authentic feel to it, and apparently this has improved with GT Sport (more specifically the first one, the second one maybe not because of the in-game BoP).

Conclusion? I have no clue.
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Aye, good points, people always forget about sound, and it takes a while sometimes. And we don't know their workflow. They've certainly changed their priorities and I reckon that's a good thing. Just me thinks that, by the way, not me and an imaginary horde :)
 
Lord Kacperov
I'm okay with the number too, but a lot of people aren't. And it's not surprising.

To know what I'm talking about, we need to do some math:

One car modeler takes around 6 months to make one car. There were 50 car modelers credited in the GT6 End Movie. That means every car modeler will make about two cars every year, and this game was in development for about 4 years (2013/2014-2017). This means that every year, around 100 cars are completed in terms of modeling by the 50 car modelers. This means that around 400 cars would be modeled in that time period. But we will only have 150 cars at launch. Pretty strange, no?

Well, perhaps not. Remember that the car sounds also have to be made as good as possible, and with GT Sport the sounds have dramatically improved. And the cars also need to have a unique and authentic feel to it, and apparently this has improved with GT Sport (more specifically the first one, the second one maybe not because of the in-game BoP).

Conclusion? I have no clue.
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Don't forget quite a chunk of that time is they have to model the interior now accurately right down to the number of interior stitches on the leather chairs and dashboard (which they never used to have to do in previous gen) They also have VR detail now and then they start work on the physics/gearing/audio/Photomode/Replays/Scapes etc the list is probably endless! Other games have managed far more cars so I am guessing a lot of it is in the finer minute (mm) detail, lighting, reflections, shadows and accuracy of the car model. Way over my head too! The good news is Kaz has said the plan is up to 500 Cars coming via DLC. So even if we get 200-250 more that is still quite a few a month! Lets hope they keep up with the pressure and my guess is 50 more cars in the first 6 months :crazy:
 
jm79
I shall, therefore, play the ball, good sir.

I think that it is generally accepted, and is quite clear among these forums, and among the throng of my opinion acolytes, who shall remain nameless, that basically, what I say about car count is right. But then I'm essentially just totally impartial, like your good self.

150 is a perfect number, many will agree, and totally acceptable as the output for a team of roughly 200 people, not all of whom, quite obviously, are car modellers.

Better, old mucker?
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I'm not sure it's possible for you to engage in a discussion without the slights and thinly veiled insults. You seem incapable of accepting that one can have a broad discussion on a subject apart from their personal feelings in the matter.
Proof positive:
jm79
Aye, good points, people always forget about sound, and it takes a while sometimes. And we don't know their workflow. They've certainly changed their priorities and I reckon that's a good thing. Just me thinks that, by the way, not me and an imaginary horde :)
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Lord Kacperov
I'm okay with the number too, but a lot of people aren't. And it's not surprising.

To know what I'm talking about, we need to do some math:

One car modeler takes around 6 months to make one car. There were 50 car modelers credited in the GT6 End Movie. That means every car modeler will make about two cars every year, and this game was in development for about 4 years (2013/2014-2017). This means that every year, around 100 cars are completed in terms of modeling by the 50 car modelers. This means that around 400 cars would be modeled in that time period. But we will only have 150 cars at launch. Pretty strange, no?

Well, perhaps not. Remember that the car sounds also have to be made as good as possible, and with GT Sport the sounds have dramatically improved. And the cars also need to have a unique and authentic feel to it, and apparently this has improved with GT Sport (more specifically the first one, the second one maybe not because of the in-game BoP).

Conclusion? I have no clue.
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Yes, exactly. The numbers don't seem to add up which is why I think many people on this forum have expressed consternation over the car count. Perhaps there are other factors at play. Maybe it doesn't take 6 months to model a car now, maybe it's 18 months. Maybe they are holding back dozens and dozens of completed cars at launch to be released as DLC. Maybe the increase in staff didn't include any more car modelers.

torque99
Don't forget quite a chunk of that time is they have to model the interior now accurately right down to the number of interior stitches on the leather chairs and dashboard (which they never used to have to do in previous gen) They also have VR detail now and then they start work on the physics/gearing/audio/Photomode/Replays/Scapes etc the list is probably endless! Other games have managed far more cars so I am guessing a lot of it is in the finer minute (mm) detail, lighting, reflections, shadows and accuracy of the car model. Way over my head too! The good news is Kaz has said the plan is up to 500 Cars coming via DLC. So even if we get 200-250 more that is still quite a few a month! Lets hope they keep up with the pressure and my guess is 50 more cars in the first 6 months :crazy:
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The 500 DLC promise only serves to muddy the waters. If you can only get 150 cars ready in 3 years, how on earth can you get another 500 ready in a couple of years after the game launches? If all that is true about the fine modeling and that leads to 150 cars, how does it all of a sudden lead to 3x that amount after launch? As I said, the numbers don't seem to add up.
 
Johnnypenso
I'm not sure it's possible for you to engage in a discussion without the slights and thinly veiled insults. You seem incapable of accepting that one can have a broad discussion on a subject apart from their personal feelings in the matter.
Proof positive.
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I merely pointed out that it's totally fine to express an opinion without manufacturing imaginary hordes of people who agree with you.

So, on the contrary, you seem to be taking all this rather personally - try playing the ball, rather than the man, what?

Now, let's get back to the actual discussion eh, me old mucker?

I'm expecting a metric-tonne of DLC, and very soon. It is totally vital for maintaining engagement, particularly for a vaunted e-sports platform, to have a lot of it. Though, I, as well as you, and your make-believe agreers, have no real idea. So let's see, shall we? Not long now!
 
jm79
I merely pointed out that it's totally fine to express an opinion without manufacturing imaginary hordes of people who agree with you.

So, on the contrary, you seem to be taking all this rather personally - try playing the ball, rather than the man, what?

Now, let's get back to the actual discussion eh, me old mucker?

I'm expecting a metric-tonne of DLC, and very soon. It is totally vital for maintaining engagement, particularly for a vaunted e-sports platform, to have a lot of it. Though, I, as well as you, and your make-believe agreers, have no real idea. So let's see, shall we? Not long now!
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As I said, you're incapable of having a discussion without the thinly veiled insults.
 
Lord Kacperov
There were, however, 50 people credited as car modelers in the GT6 End movie, according to an older post by @Johnnypenso, I think.
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Here

sems4arsenal
Yep. All the Gr.Bs (aside from the Audi), a lot of the Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars. The vision GTs, the Toyota road cars.
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So you agree with me that most of them are not real world cars.

Do you know why they include those categories in their designations / names? Because Gr.B, Gr.3, Gr.4 are all invented categories. PD includes interpretations of what those cars could be if they were Rally, GT3, GT4 or LMP cars. Other games may have less of them, but they're real and not invented.

That's why the Audis, BMWs, Lotus or McLarens don't have a "Gr." at the end of their model designations. Same for the 458 GT3, Vantage GT3, Huracan GT3 or AMG GT3. Basically, all* the cars that have a Gr.B, Gr.3, Gr.4, Gr.1 (etc) as part of their designations are not cars that exist in the real world. They're based upon real cars, for the most part, mixed with made up setups (and body parts in a lot of cases) in order to be included in a certain category - Rally, GT3, GT4, LMP1, etc - and inflate the overall number of cars in the game. Yes, because a lot of the Gr.3 and Gr.4 cars are basically the same car, just with different made up setups and made up liveries and body parts.

There are plenty of official GT3 cars that we don't see in the game. Same for other categories, especially LMP cars - in GTS most of Gr.1 are vision GT cars.

Toyota road cars? The only exclusive is the 2016 Toyota 86 GRNM. The standard 86 GT is not exclusive to GTS and the SF-R is not a road car but a concept car. Real, but not a road car.

The only real cars in GTS are those who have not a "Gr." in their designations.

In ~145 cars, 49 are Gr. cars (not real world cars but interpretations of what a real world car could be based on a real world car or a vision GT car) and 24 are Vision GT cars. That's half of the total number of cars. So, the other half are the real world cars. The ones that actually exist. And the vast majority of them are not exclusive to GTS.

So, when you say:

Come to think of it -- GTSport has lots of exclusive content. Wonder if that is deliberate. A lot of the tracks and cars aren't in any game. If they get the JGTCs as well then add to that.
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You're refering almost excluvely to content that is made up, even if it looks like it isn't. The Gr. cars look like they're real but they aren't. And I think most other games wouldn't have a problem to make up cars and categories. That's easier and cheaper than model, test, record and drive real cars. Is it better? Might be for some people. I certainly don't find it something that puts GTS above other games, quite the contrary. If there's any company who has the means to put real cars in a game is PD, as they did in the past.

Same for the tracks. Of course fictional tracks are not in any other game. But that's something anyone could say about any other game. You could say "all the cars and track are exclusive to this game" about Rigde Racer. That in itself is insignificant to the quality of the game. What most people want, given GT's history, is not exclusivity for the sake of exclusivity but that combined with realism. We had exclusive real cars and tracks in the past. Now, with GTS, we have more fictional exclusive cars and tracks. Other games have more real exclusives (like Forza when we talk about cars or pC2 when we talk about tracks).

* the Honda NSX Gr.3 is an exception because it's basically a duplicate of the Acura NSX GT3.

 

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