Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Cocomoto]

I do have one question:

Where did you guys took out that the racing game are dead?
Yeah, games are having less sales per title but, there's A LOT more racing games out there, serious games, iRacing, RFactor, Pcars, Forza, RacingRoon, AC, GT... etc.

And about PD and Evoluition Studios, PD really have only have 110 people working on it? I remenber to saw somewhere that they took more people, but i can't remenber where, when or how much!!
If they took some people of Evolution Studios it would be great, but now is too late, Codemaster allready contracted then.

 

[Imari]

This is where personal taste will influence greatly what are expandable features. You may disregard dynamic time and or weather has being essential for a modern racing game, others will consider it mandatory and will happily embrace a locked 30fps as an acceptable sacrifice.

It's clearly not essential, but that some might consider it so in a Gran Turismo game is partially on Polyphony too for establishing it as such in GT5 and 6.

In the end the game will, no matter the platform, end up being a compromise...

As all games and programs are.

The trick is to make the compromises either minimally visible to the user, or at least comprehensible to them. That's the skill of game design: make something that is fun with the tools that you have available to you.

...and by the looks of it PD has a rather narrow margin for delivering a satisfying next game to it's wide audience.

I don't think so. They've painted themselves into a few tough corners with previous technology that they'll now be expected to continue, and by their timing being pretty poor in comparison to the competition.

Still, it doesn't take much to satisfy people with regards to Gran Turismo. It gets away with a lot simply by virtue of being Gran Turismo. All it really has to do is not be obviously obnoxious and a lot of people will love it.

GT5 and 6 had the problem of being games that had parts that were amazing balanced out by parts that were awful. The user experience varied wildly depending on which parts of the game the user was most into.

I think GTS doesn't necessarily need the amazing parts to be successful, it just needs to not have the parts that are awful. If every part of GTS is simply decent, I think that gets them a long, long way. I don't think that should be particularly difficult for a studio of Polyphony's age and pedigree, and any additional awesomeness beyond that would be icing on the cake.

 

[SimTourist]

I don't know if it's been mentioned but I skimmed through the past half-dozen pages and didn't see it.

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/rumor-ps4-exclusive-gran-turismo-sport-might-released-2017-now/

So, clearly this isn't anything concrete by any means, and the article's title starts with labeling it "rumor", but talk seems to be pointing at 2017. That lines up with my long-standing prediction of GT Sport dropping in late 2017. I then still predict a minimum of two more years after that for GT7, so right about PS5 launch window.

Grain of salt and all, but I stand behind 2017 as the earliest that we'll see a full release of Sport.

I wouldn't be too surprised, if history taught us anything is that PD can't meet deadlines and it's an absolutely mind boggling situation right now. GTS is supposed to be a smaller title, I don't see PD making a proper GT7 for PS4, there's simply no time left, new gen consoles are sure to hit 2019-2020 at the latest and PD is far too slow. A better choice for them would be making GTS a game as a service, release what you have, add new cars/tracks/feature as they're done, they clearly can no longer support full title development.

 

[doblocruiser]

Next to that PD will be up against new games from Codemasters, Slightly Mad, Kunos and maybe other developers that make the jump to PS4. I am trying to stay positive but the lack of news and other IP's gaining momentum doesn't do GT any favours.

 

[Elitekilla29]

I miss the days when PD was strictly focus on their GT game and not all this other stuff like GT Academy, Vision GT, and etc. It's like 80% of the time they focus on stuff like that besides their game. We want news about the game not this other stuff.

 

[Turnaround]

...A better choice for them would be making GTS a game as a service, release what you have, add new cars/tracks/feature as they're done, they clearly can no longer support full title development.

Wait, isn't this kinda what GTHD was suppose to be?

I miss the days when PD was strictly focus on their GT game and not all this other stuff like GT Academy, Vision GT, and etc. It's like 80% of the time they focus on stuff like that besides their game. We want news about the game not this other stuff.

It does seem like Polyphony would rather focus on stuff that ties into/takes place in the real automotive world. This would've been fine if it didn't mean such a drastic drop in quality for the mainline GT titles. This is why I'm thinking they should probably hand development of the large mainline games to another development team that not only can focus on them (doesn't get sidetracked by other projects/can better engage customers post release), but would enjoy doing so (GT5 and 6 didn't feel like they had as much enthusiasm behind them like GT1-4).

 

[GTchicken]

No it wouldn't be nice, GT7 is a racing sim which is not a place for tributing popular series especially if they consist of old american sedans... Otherwise they should make an open wheel iron throne as a car. Those cars would be useless, some people might drive them once and forget about them although now that I think about it slaptrain and 20 other copycat's could make a drift build out of this cars so I guess it's ok then

Gran Turismo wouldn't be Gran Turismo if it was strictly race cars. It is nice to have diversity of cars and to be able to race then in exclusive races such as, pick up trucks, lightweight cars and FWD cars. Also, don't you think it would be fun to race the Fleetwood Bounder against the Pontiac Aztec on the Grand Canyon dirt track?

 

[Samus]

Either way this is the GT Sport topic, not a GT7 one. They definitely won't be including anything like that in GT Sport.

 

[Tornado]

GTHD was a little different (and much stupider). In that case, Sony wanted to release a strip mined GT4 for low cost/free, and then sell you back GT4 cars and tracks for the same price that other games ultimately released new PS3 content for. When that idea (obviously) blew up in there face, they cancelled it outright; and turned GT:HD Premium into GT5: Prologue.


SimTourist seems to be describing something more like releasing a GT Sport as soon as possible but using a subscription model to add new content to it.

No it wouldn't be nice, GT7 is a racing sim which is not a place for tributing popular series

Those cars would be useless, some people might drive them once and forget about them

 

[Soundtrack]

It's clearly not essential...

We need a poll! More seriously, if Driveclub feedback is to be believed, higher frame-rates are not a necessity to make a racing game fun and enjoyable either (Some just recently suggested Sony were fools not to capitalize on Evolution Studios know-how). So having a locked 60fps prerequisite may end up being a poor game design decision to start with (full grid standing start turn one hick-ups dictating general gameplay and or AI behavior,...). The trouble could be PD’s mothership vested interest in the spec in this case.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Next to that PD will be up against new games from Codemasters, Slightly Mad, Kunos and maybe other developers that make the jump to PS4. I am trying to stay positive but the lack of news and other IP's gaining momentum doesn't do GT any favours.

Noticed on Twitter, GT follows Assetto Corsa and Project CARS so they are aware of the competition at least.

Also noticed they follow Yas Marina Circuit, wonder if they've modelled the track and if it will be in time for GT Academy.

 

[SimTourist]

SimTourist seems to be describing something more like releasing a GT Sport as soon as possible but using a subscription model to add new content to it.

Doesn't have to be a subscription, just a base game and paid DLC cars/tracks released afterwards. Pretty much like every other game now.

 

[Samus]

Doesn't have to be a subscription, just a base game and paid DLC cars/tracks released afterwards. Pretty much like every other game now.

They would have to update it with better events than the lame seasonals though, if they want to keep the single player people interested over a long period of time.

 

[cutmeamango]

Doesn't have to be a subscription, just a base game and paid DLC cars/tracks released afterwards. Pretty much like every other game now.

That has been their plan for long, and is something that had already been said in that whole Prologue or not question.

When the game becomes more of an online connected experience, that distinction blurs. This will be much more than a Prologue type experience.

That is, we are at a point where content can just be continually added if there are not great core changes to require a new game.
They made a whole internal update system for GT6 (that went largely unused due how Sony deployed large updates and PD's semi-abandonment). Spec2 on GT5 was already their first attempt at it.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Next to that PD will be up against new games from Codemasters, Slightly Mad, Kunos and maybe other developers that make the jump to PS4. I am trying to stay positive but the lack of news and other IP's gaining momentum doesn't do GT any favours.

Even adding Turn 10 and whoever makes forza horizon and still it won't matter. None of these make games that sell well.

 

[queleuleu]

Even adding Turn 10 and whoever makes forza horizon and still it won't matter. None of these make games that sell well.

People won't forget ps3 era. Their last "complete" game was gt5 prologue.

 

[sems4arsenal]

People won't forget ps3 era. Their last "complete" game was gt5 prologue.

We'll see about that but I doubt they'll matter

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I do have one question:

Where did you guys took out that the racing game are dead?
Yeah, games are having less sales per title but, there's A LOT more racing games out there, serious games, iRacing, RFactor, Pcars, Forza, RacingRoon, AC, GT... etc.

It was examined a few months ago in the wake of the Polyphony/Sony sales numbers (care of @Famine):

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gt6-sales-discussion.292590/page-59#post-10948352

iRacing and rFactor are drops in the bucket, alongside R3 (and are PC-only anyway). Really, the only series that sell reasonably well on consoles are GT, FM, and NFS, with the latter making up the numbers due to being a multi-plat. PCARS sold a lot out the gate, but we haven't seen any hard sales figures since the original 1 million last year.

The divide between arcade and simulation style games has widened, and some people might point towards that being a reason for the genre-wide decline. Sim-like games are becoming increasingly unapproachable for console players without investing a lot of money in expensive peripherals: PCARS was borderline unplayable on a pad at launch, for example. GT and Forza have also doubled-down on the multi-hundred car lineups, which – if I had to hazard a guess – makes other games look like relatively poor value when making strictly numbers-based comparisons.

Other than Grand Theft Auto, I can't think of many popular driving-based games with non-licensed cars, either. Rocket League is apparently selling very well, but that's hardly a racing game.

I've said it a few times before: with GT Sport taking so long to arrive on this generation, I think a service-style approach could work really well, if PD nails the basics. I realize it's probably not as lucrative to the bean-counters, though. Racing games are a prime choice for the model IMO: there's no story or anything like that in terms of creative, so every addition can be built on top of a solid foundation. New cars and tracks are straight-forward enough, but even improved customization options can show up as they're finished.

Just don't charge people for one-use paint chips again, PD.

 

[jm79]

People won't forget ps3 era. Their last "complete" game was gt5 prologue.

Which also happens to be my personal favourite of recent times

 

[Laffinassasin]

Which also happens to be my personal favourite of recent times

Agreed. I still have my copy of GT5 and my DFGT. *sniff*

On topic. Anyone worried GT Sport will miss this year? I'm thinking if we hear nothing by mid May then it could miss this year (reasoning= GT6 announced 15th May 2013, released December 13').

Edit: LOL at the smilie because of the way I formatted prologue! It really does blow me a raspberry every time I look at it on the shelf...

 

[jm79]

Agreed. I still have my copy of GT5 and my DFGT. *sniff*

On topic. Anyone worried GT Sport will miss this year? I'm thinking if we hear nothing by mid May then it could miss this year (reasoning= GT6 announced 15th May 2013, released December 13').

Edit: LOL at the smilie because of the way I formatted prologue! It really does blow me a raspberry every time I look at it on the shelf...

Haha, that's brilliant

And yeah, I'm increasingly worried about GT:S
End of April no-show, not this year.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

The divide between arcade and simulation style games has widened, and some people might point towards that being a reason for the genre-wide decline. Sim-like games are becoming increasingly unapproachable for console players without investing a lot of money in expensive peripherals: PCARS was borderline unplayable on a pad at launch, for example. GT and Forza have also doubled-down on the multi-hundred car lineups, which – if I had to hazard a guess – makes other games look like relatively poor value when making strictly numbers-based comparisons.

Agreed. Neither of my teenage sons want to even get anywhere near Gran Turismo and in fact, combined they only have a few friends that play games like it. It's way to much for them to process, especially since they don't have a love affair with automobiles like I do. To them, racing in a fixed place is boring.

I fully believe PDI needs to continue their march towards attracting the Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto buyers in order to survive and thrive. Make the game as easy to play as GTA if someone want's it to be. I am not saying that they need to completely sidestep the sim-market, but they sure can't rely on the niche purchasers who get upset if accurate "this" or realistic "that" are missing. To the majority of buyers, does it really matter?

 

[omgsean1]

Even adding Turn 10 and whoever makes forza horizon and still it won't matter. None of these make games that sell well.

Playground did make Forza Horizon series with Turn 10's assist I think.

 

[queleuleu]

Gran Turismo 5/6 are known as boring games. I don't see a lot of gt videos on youtube with kids screaming behind a mic like. Fun is one of the main keys to be a big seller. Gt 1-2-3 were fun. For instance I love the handling and replays in gt6 but it's not a fun game, even more if you're a teen or have no story with the old GTs.
What make GT so special is also its weak point for new players like its soundtrack. For sure with Sony support, GT could have a soundtrack a la Fifa (pop rock).

 

[JKgo]

What make GT so special is also its weak point for new players like its soundtrack. For sure with Sony support, GT could have a soundtrack a la Fifa (pop rock).

....

But you can play your own music off PS3's HDD in GT6.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Agreed. Neither of my teenage sons want to even get anywhere near Gran Turismo and in fact, combined they only have a few friends that play games like it. It's way to much for them to process, especially since they don't have a love affair with automobiles like I do. To them, racing in a fixed place is boring.

I fully believe PDI needs to continue their march towards attracting the Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto buyers in order to survive and thrive. Make the game as easy to play as GTA if someone want's it to be. I am not saying that they need to completely sidestep the sim-market, but they sure can't rely on the niche purchasers who get upset if accurate "this" or realistic "that" are missing. To the majority of buyers, does it really matter?

Racing in a "fixed place" generated 75 million units out the door for PD/Sony.

 

[GordonS]

Agreed. Neither of my teenage sons want to even get anywhere near Gran Turismo and in fact, combined they only have a few friends that play games like it. It's way to much for them to process, especially since they don't have a love affair with automobiles like I do. To them, racing in a fixed place is boring.

I fully believe PDI needs to continue their march towards attracting the Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto buyers in order to survive and thrive. Make the game as easy to play as GTA if someone want's it to be. I am not saying that they need to completely sidestep the sim-market, but they sure can't rely on the niche purchasers who get upset if accurate "this" or realistic "that" are missing. To the majority of buyers, does it really matter?

Well, there is no way to fully attract players of other genres but there will always be driving aides for example 'Skid Recovery Force' which will do the trick, to please the casual drivers.
Of course, now that P. D. has connected with FIA, there is no way going back to full arcade.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Not really. There's one other developer that has met the target on similar but weaker hardware. They did so by not including some of the more graphically taxing features such as variable weather and lighting. That's proper planning and building to hit performance targets instead of feature lists.

If it can be done on X1 then it can absolutely be done on PS4. The question is whether Polyphony is willing to sacrifice enough of their bells and whistles for it.

Dynamic time of day, weather is now no longer bells and whistles. On PS3 it was a big deal especially the weather because no other racing game had it and those which did were running at 30fps. On PS4 I would say these are must have for a sim. Pcars and F1 already have it and I guess dirt rally as well.

I don't know if it's been mentioned but I skimmed through the past half-dozen pages and didn't see it.

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/rumor-ps4-exclusive-gran-turismo-sport-might-released-2017-now/

So, clearly this isn't anything concrete by any means, and the article's title starts with labeling it "rumor", but talk seems to be pointing at 2017. That lines up with my long-standing prediction of GT Sport dropping in late 2017. I then still predict a minimum of two more years after that for GT7, so right about PS5 launch window.

Grain of salt and all, but I stand behind 2017 as the earliest that we'll see a full release of Sport.

GT6 was announced and released with in 6months of time. Many games have beta and then the game is released in few months. Basically beta is just like demo saying this is not final build and the retail version will be much better. This is to give an impression on the player that if beta was decent then game will be great. I can easily see the date being announced in E3 for sometime this year.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I miss the days when PD was strictly focus on their GT game and not all this other stuff like GT Academy, Vision GT, and etc. It's like 80% of the time they focus on stuff like that besides their game. We want news about the game not this other stuff.

Preach it man. I totally agree with this. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Dynamic time of day, weather is now no longer bells and whistles. On PS3 it was a big deal especially the weather because no other racing game had it and those which did were running at 30fps. On PS4 I would say these are must have for a sim. Pcars and F1 already have it and I guess dirt rally as well.

It is "bells and whistles" if you want your game to run at a locked 60fps in this fast approaching VR era. There's no weather in AC and I've never missed it and while it is mentioned here and there on the very active AC forums, it's most definitely a tiny, tiny minority of players that seem really concerned about it. It's more of a bonus feature to me and, it seems, to many others, rather than a core element.

GT6 was announced and released with in 6 months of time. Many games have beta and then the game is released in few months. Basically beta is just like demo saying this is not final build and the retail version will be much better. This is to give an impression on the player that if beta was decent then game will be great. I can easily see the date being announced in E3 for sometime this year.

A true beta is a game still in development that actively solicits feedback from the beta playing fanbase. That's a far different thing from a demo which is more of a near finalized but smaller version of the release candidate and does not solicit or plan to use player feedback for development purposes in the way a beta does.