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The SRT cars do look out of place... aerodynamically. They look like a mix between a tuned road car and a speed racer. They don't really resemble a Le Mans Prototype, instead it should be its own class, assuming we have multi class racing.
Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion
- Thread starter Formidable
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How is adding a VGT to the Group 1 class any different to a GT3 series balancing and waiving something like a Renault RS01 which is staunchly not a GT3 car?
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- HamiltonMP427
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- SpacedustDaddy
At least the Renault is similar to the McLaren and an R8. Mid-ship and close enough to a GT.
The SRT is more radical than what the GT1 Saleen was. It just does not fit. For me, it kills the illusion of racing with "proper" race cars from that category.
Hey, I won't be racing that Gr. if I can help it. But, if there is multi-class racing, it'll take away from my immersion.
The SRT is more radical than what the GT1 Saleen was. It just does not fit. For me, it kills the illusion of racing with "proper" race cars from that category.
Hey, I won't be racing that Gr. if I can help it. But, if there is multi-class racing, it'll take away from my immersion.
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- cocoflowa
Gamescom will take place between 17th and 21st August. We'll probably have news infos within 1 months
Sony maybe won't be there. http://www.videogamer.com/news/sony_undecided_about_gamescom_2016_press_conference.html
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- HamiltonMP427
Well one the car you compared is real, and everything they did to it to fight in GT3 made it slower than it's original counter part, thus unlike other cars they went backwards. With VGT I don't see how you can do that other than shifting performance downward in form of power and perhaps aero.
However, a car like the SRT is far too wide, the power system is...let's just say insane. It has no real world relation and though this game is just virtual in nature it's hard to make sense of how it's fair unless they do a completely new car in line with FIA specs.
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- Tassie_tiger
A couple of examples.
The VW VGT is 608PP in GT6 and is a Gr.3 car.
The Peugeot VGT is 699PP in GT6, and is also in Gr.3.
The Alpine VGT is 599PP in GT6, but it's in Gr.1.
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- HamiltonMP427
That doesn't mean anything considering as I said they could have completely rebuilt these cars just for the grade they were placed in. At least the context I'm using is stuff officially from PD at this time.
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- Tassie_tiger
Well I'm confused.
Yes, they have been BoP'd to suit the group they've been assigned.
Or in other words "in GT Sport they are different to their GT6 counterparts".
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- HamiltonMP427
You're using the fact they're GR.3 to make a claim they must be bop'd due to pp in GT6. Totally neglecting the fact that GT6 PP and the rating GTS use could be absolutely different due to the nature of the cars and the categories they need to fill, which has nothing to do with BOP. Nor does it address the 2600 hp and 400mph SRT being grouped with a 800hp + Audi that is lucky to see 225 on the longest portions of Le Sarthe.
Nor does it address the posibility of completely rebuilt cars to help actually have similar balance.
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- Tassie_tiger
We must be on two different tracks because you are losing me.
Let me put it this way.
If we had a race in GT6 and I used the 710PP Mazda VGT and you used the 599PP Alpine VGT, would you call it a fair race?
Both of those cars are Gr. 1 in GT Sport and should/do have similar performance ability.
So something has clearly changed.
Tidgney
Premium
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I had this talk back at the copper box regarding classes, all you really need is a few basic models (Front Engine, Mid Engine, Rear Engine) or perhaps a few more with lots of weight vs lighter cars and their performances adjusted so that they have strengths and weaknesses and then just put any shell on top of them. So that different cars perform better/worse at different tracks! Depends where you go with rules (4wd, rwd etc.).
The more versions you have the more complex the balancing becomes but as an e-sport game it has to have a lot of balance otherwise it won't work. You could go super basic and have 1 model in each class but I do believe you need variety, you just don't need super individual models (To match their real life counter parts) for each car otherwise I imagine the balancing becomes an absolute nightmare. As longs it resembles the real life counter part I imagine it's fine.
I must admit some VGT cars do look a little out of place, however I imagine they are in and some may have only been built to be apart of the manufacturers cup, which then makes a little more sense why they would be in the same group as LMP1 cars. I did think the race at Brands in the cup made the race look unique, and was very entertaining! Weirdly it made the LMP1 cars look really dated!
The more versions you have the more complex the balancing becomes but as an e-sport game it has to have a lot of balance otherwise it won't work. You could go super basic and have 1 model in each class but I do believe you need variety, you just don't need super individual models (To match their real life counter parts) for each car otherwise I imagine the balancing becomes an absolute nightmare. As longs it resembles the real life counter part I imagine it's fine.
I must admit some VGT cars do look a little out of place, however I imagine they are in and some may have only been built to be apart of the manufacturers cup, which then makes a little more sense why they would be in the same group as LMP1 cars. I did think the race at Brands in the cup made the race look unique, and was very entertaining! Weirdly it made the LMP1 cars look really dated!
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- HamiltonMP427
No one here is saying something hasn't changed, quite the opposite. What I'm saying which you seemed to miss is that they could have realistically made newer visions of the VGT just for GTS. OR rebuilt the the performance ratings, thus whatever reason the rated them the way they did in GT6 is totally different in GTS. But GT6 being used as the benchmark is moot due to the operation of this game as we keep learning so far. This is a dedicated racer in the purist form it seems.
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- Tassie_tiger
So yes they have been BoP'd, but no your not going to say that.
I give up.
All I tried to do was offer an example when you questioned the fact that "in GT Sport they are different to their GT6 counterparts".
Clearly I shouldn't have bothered.
This is the last thing I have to say on the matter.
"The race cars featured in Gran Turismo Sport are classified into categories based on real-world motorsports and tweaked to provide equal conditions during competition."
"In addition to new upcoming cars, current Vision Gran Turismo vehicles—from companies such as Bugatti, Peugeot and Volkswagen—will be tuned so they can compete in the races in Gran Turismo Sport."
http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gtsport/original_cars/
Yeh, some good points there.
Don't forget though that the Manufacturers Cup was Gr. 3.
So that doesn't explain the Alpine being elevated to Gr. 1 either.
Another surprise was seeing the Peugeot on that grid.
But I guess they only had 16 manufacturers to choose and they opted for the ones they did.
I give up.
All I tried to do was offer an example when you questioned the fact that "in GT Sport they are different to their GT6 counterparts".
Clearly I shouldn't have bothered.
This is the last thing I have to say on the matter.
"The race cars featured in Gran Turismo Sport are classified into categories based on real-world motorsports and tweaked to provide equal conditions during competition."
"In addition to new upcoming cars, current Vision Gran Turismo vehicles—from companies such as Bugatti, Peugeot and Volkswagen—will be tuned so they can compete in the races in Gran Turismo Sport."
http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gtsport/original_cars/
Yeh, some good points there.
Don't forget though that the Manufacturers Cup was Gr. 3.
So that doesn't explain the Alpine being elevated to Gr. 1 either.
Another surprise was seeing the Peugeot on that grid.
But I guess they only had 16 manufacturers to choose and they opted for the ones they did.
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- HamiltonMP427
So because you one didn't get my point to begin with, and two don't see how we actually agree about their being some sort of balance, just instead differ on how it's achieved. You're going to use this sad woe is me moment to just stop a discussion. Alright then, welcome to a forum on the internet, where people will argue and not always see with you eye to eye...
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- Tassie_tiger
"In addition to new upcoming cars, current Vision Gran Turismo vehicles—from companies such as Bugatti, Peugeot and Volkswagen—will be tuned so they can compete in the races in Gran Turismo Sport."
http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gtsport/original_cars/
Satisfied?
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- dacc10
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- That_sneaky_azN
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- theufc33
They were planning to, but Nismo couldn't get the KERS/ERS (they're pretty much the same thing) working properly for the rear wheels, so they had to ditch that for Le Mans, and they stuck to a FWD drivetrain. At least, that's as far as my understanding goes. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Here's a good article talking about how it works with the creator: http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a24903/nissan-gt-r-lm-nismo-tech-deep-dive-with-ben-bowlby/
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Thats why i said full AWD, the all 4 wheels motored by combustion engine one. Not an SH-AWD variant where the KERS drivetrain motor only power up the car for a short time and not for entire race.
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I've just noticed that the Bugatti Vision Gran Turismo weighs 980kg. I know it's for balancing purposes, but holy moly, that's gonna handle like a fly.
Also, yeah, the R.S.01 being the Normal class is quite odd. It seems to be heavier than the car should be, so maybe that's why it's in the Normal class? Either that, or it's just a visual glitch that'll be fixed by release.
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- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I find this chart rather helpful. A few things to take from it:
It looks as though the classes will be organised based on PP. The VW VGT has 607 PP while the Toyota TS030 has 629 - which tells me that the cutoff PP for Group 3 is 610 and the Group 1 vehicles have a minimum PP of 620. The Alpine VGT Group 1 weirdly has 668 PP with 558 HP and the cars look as though they have been balanced somewhat. It's going to be interesting to see how this effects the online racing competition.
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- Quattro Saltire
The Bugatti also looks woefully underpowered because it had to be balanced for Gr.1. With that much aero on it, theres no way it will do 250mph at Le Mans.
