Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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Dissecting grammar Well done. Some people don't like the truth. So they gonna hate. Those haters keep hating.

P.s there ain't a thing you haters can do to influence GT sport. :cheers: Lol

Chat chat chat chat chat..., sounds like a coffee shop full of first time mothers, lmfao.... and 1 or 2 blokes.
 
Tassie_tiger
Rubbish.

IMO.
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Isn't it just wonderful being able to disagree with someone's opinion?

How terrible would be if none of us could disagree about something, right? I mean, you wouldn't be able to make posts about how you see my posts as being "rubbish".
 
Neomone
Not really. One can hold an opinion and have it be wrong. I could be of the opinion that Gran Turismo 2 has the most accurate physics of any game, and that would be wrong.

You can't just write objective stuff off because it's an opinion. Other people can, will and should point out the error.

http://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978
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And yet I see this type of response being used quite frequently without it being questioned.

SimTourist
"Your opinion is different from mine therefore it's a wrong opinion", there's been some negative feedback from people that tried it, so are they wrong as well? Get a grip. If you don't like my opinions, simply ignore my messages, problem solved.
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Go figure.

GTPorsche
Isn't it just wonderful being able to disagree with someone's opinion?

How terrible would be if none of us could disagree about something, right? I mean, you wouldn't be able to make posts about how you see my posts as being "rubbish".
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Hang on.

I thought you had issue with 'someone making a claim'.
Not that you disagreed with his opinion.
 
Tassie_tiger
And yet I see this type of response being used quite frequently without it being questioned.



Go figure.



Hang on.

I thought you had issue with 'someone making a claim'.
Not that you disagreed with his opinion.
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No.. you're the one having issues with that.
 
dacc10
Then explain me, how on earth can the car cound of just over 130 cars be too many? There's no such thing as "too many options". If the car count is good enough, just state that, the end. Saying there's too many cars seems just like a provocation to people who have been stating the exact opposite (and there's a lot of people complaining about that).

In his post, he made claims on subjects that are/were always in discussion right here on GTPlanet (car/track count, sounds, graphics, physics), based on nothing more than maybe some videos. He is just trolling at the end of the day.

What's going to be his next post? "GTS is too good of a game, PD should sell by twice the price it is right now"?
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Did you not read what I wrote?
His English failed him.

Nothing more, nothing less.


Seriously, look at you people go.
Like a hungry wolf pack on a carcass.
You've devoured the first one so it's onto the next.

I find it represents those just as badly as the initial comment.
If not more.

IMO .......... of course.
 
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He made a comment.
Positive trolling? ... unusual but I guess it's possible.

Either way, let it ride.

If I decided to comment on every unreasonable negative comment here it would be a full time job.
 
ImaRobot
Sorry, I've been half dead off Robitussin this week, terrible fever!


At this point in history, a HDTV is mandatory to even play these games in the first place. IIRC, there is no composite slots, and everything is running off HDMI only.


The way I was thinking is from what equipment I've been using for the past 6 years or so. I've had a basic HDTV, that I got for a relatively cheap price many years ago, and even on that it wasn't to hard to be able compare sounds of the games I was playing. Having been using the same TV for a good amount of time, that did not stop me from being able to hear how great PCars sounds are in comparison to GT5 for example.

That's why I believe that extra equipment has never been a valid argument in my case.
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pCARS was designed to sound "good" on TV speakers, like Forza. That's fine in principle (accessibility for all), but don't neglect the HiFi guys and gals at the same time!

That's like coding your shaders and mastering your textures to look good on an SDTV, and only on an SDTV. Everybody knows that modern games look like a soup of indistinct nonsense on an SDTV, so clearly nobody does it that way around. And yet: nobody complains.

Remember we're talking about gaming, not watching TV. Sound has long been the poor red-headed stepchild compared with graphics, and it's because of backward attitudes that it remains so. TV speakers (generally) sound awful no matter what, but the impression can be OK in the right environment (noisy). When I hear sounds mastered for TV on my headphones, it causes me great fatigue - literally. Excluding the aesthetic shortcomings, PD went the other way and mixed their games so that they only really sound half decent on a proper sound setup (because of the wide dynamics and natural frequency response), and awful on anything else. Like is done with graphics. Everybody complains.



Surely, though, an HDTV being "mandatory" contradicts your statement "Buying into equipment should not be an alternative. It's something that should function just as well right out of the box."

I don't want HiFi audio buried because people won't buy decent speakers.
 
Griffith500
pCARS was designed to sound "good" on TV speakers, like Forza. That's fine in principle (accessibility for all), but don't neglect the HiFi guys and gals at the same time!

That's like coding your shaders and mastering your textures to look good on an SDTV, and only on an SDTV. Everybody knows that modern games look like a soup of indistinct nonsense on an SDTV, so clearly nobody does it that way around. And yet: nobody complains.

Remember we're talking about gaming, not watching TV. Sound has long been the poor red-headed stepchild compared with graphics, and it's because of backward attitudes that it remains so. TV speakers (generally) sound awful no matter what, but the impression can be OK in the right environment (noisy). When I hear sounds mastered for TV on my headphones, it causes me great fatigue - literally. Excluding the aesthetic shortcomings, PD went the other way and mixed their games so that they only really sound half decent on a proper sound setup (because of the wide dynamics and natural frequency response), and awful on anything else. Like is done with graphics. Everybody complains.
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I shouldn't have to buy a wheel to be able to have a good time with the physics(Pcars have failed horribly in that department). I shouldn't have to buy a triple screen set-up to get the most out of my use of interior view, all the games I've played have satisfied me so far in this department, mostly those with adjustability, but I'm not to hindered by those that don't, so far. Just like I shouldn't have to get VR to have fun on my base game. These are all extra's, and all these things should be at the users discretion, as all these things should function well enough on the bare minimum, and only be seen to improve with these add-ons. I for one don't agree with the argument that extra's should have to be purchased in order to get things to an acceptable level, that are not up to par on base hardware. Most games can get this going just fine with the bare minimum. That they made it to only sound good on additional hardware, is all on them.

Griffith500
Surely, though, an HDTV being "mandatory" contradicts your statement "Buying into equipment should not be an alternative. It's something that should function just as well right out of the box."
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I don't see it as that, because these things are necessary to even play games. These are the bare minimum, that all should have expected to have to purchase if they want to get into this.

I can't see the game if I don't have a TV. I can't play the game if I don't have a console, I also can't play the game if I don't have the game. These are expected, and anything after that should count as accessories, not necessary equipment.
 
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sems4arsenal
Am I the only one who prefers GT games' old-fashioned GT mode to sim games Career mode like the ones in PCARS and Dirt Rally?

I don't get the appeal of PCARS's career when I can race any car on any track of my choosing online or offline at the time of my choosing.
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What you're saying here is that would not be playing career mode if you weren't forced into it.
 
GranTurismo guy
What you're saying here is that would not be playing career mode if you weren't forced into it.
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That's an interesting way of looking at it.

Although I'm not sure that's quite what he is saying.
I agree with what he is suggesting, and for me it's more a liking of linear progression through a game, as opposed to an open sand-box game where you can do anything.

Being 'forced' isn't perhaps the right description in this case.
 
Tassie_tiger
That's an interesting way of looking at it.

Although I'm not sure that's quite what he is saying.
I agree with what he is suggesting, and for me it's more a liking of linear progression through a game, as opposed to an open sand-box game where you can do anything.

Being 'forced' isn't perhaps the right description in this case.
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If you wouldn't play something if it didn't force you to, why would you want it to force you to? It doesn't make sense.
 
GranTurismo guy
If you wouldn't play something if it didn't force you to, why would you want it to force you to? It doesn't make sense.
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Why would you ever play Donkey Kong or Pacman or Space Invaders?
The list goes on.

Did you complete the RedBull Challenge in GT5?
How about a 24hour race?
You needed to have achieved certain levels before those events were even available.
And some feel a sense of accomplishment by doing so.

Not many games allow you to do what you want from the beginning.
And some people enjoy the challenge to do what the game requires before you get to take the next step.
 
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Palestinian
I have read the discussion and a few good points of information. The rest is just wish talk. I wish this and I wish that lol. I used to do it.

Allow it waste talk.
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The biggest wish thinking being yours funnily enough....

If you post the kind of stuff you have been posting then don't be surprised if people respond to it in the way it deserves.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't look forward to GTS but making some of the statements you've made is going too far.
 
Tassie_tiger
Why would you ever play Donkey Kong or Pacman or Space Invaders?
The list goes on.

Not many games allow you to do what you want from the beginning.
And some people enjoy the challenge to do what the game requires before you get to take the next step.
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They are level/story based games and require progress. You have to go from a to b, otherwise no game. Driving games are driving games if you can get in a car and move it around, story and progress is not a necessity. And it's clear that a lot of people are only participating in progression aspects of racers because they have to in order to acquire cars etc. So why can't there be an option to jump into any car on any track straight away? Why would these people not want this?
 
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GranTurismo guy
They are level/story based games and require progress. You have to go from a to b, otherwise no game. Driving games are driving games if you can get in a car and move it around, story and progress is not a necessity. And it's clear that a lot of people are only participating in progression aspects of racers because they have to in order to acquire cars etc.
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It's not 'clear' at all.

People are people.
And different people like different things.

Re-read my edit above.
 
Tassie_tiger
It's not 'clear' at all.

People are people.
And different people like different things.

Re-read my edit above.
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Where did I say that people all like the same thing? Where is that coming from? I'm specifically addressing the people that say "I don't want to play x game's career mode because everything is already available at the start", for whom my point is clear.
 
What?
I'm tiring of pointless arguments.

You said ...
"And it's clear that a lot of people are only participating in progression aspects of racers because they have to in order to acquire cars etc"

I'm suggesting there is more to than that.


I started off by liking your post and saying you had a novel way to look at it.
Now it's become all twisted.
 
Tassie_tiger
You said ...
"And it's clear that a lot of people are only participating in progression aspects of racers because they have to in order to acquire cars etc"

I'm suggesting there is more to than that.
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Of course there will be people that enjoy the progression, no argument there.
 
ImaRobot
I shouldn't have to buy a wheel to be able to have a good time with the physics(Pcars have failed horribly in that department). I shouldn't have to buy a triple screen set-up to get the most out of my use of interior view, all the games I've played have satisfied me so far in this department, mostly those with adjustability, but I'm not to hindered by those that don't, so far. Just like I shouldn't have to get VR to have fun on my base game. These are all extra's, and all these things should be at the users discretion, as all these things should function well enough on the bare minimum, and only be seen to improve with these add-ons. I for one don't agree with the argument that extra's should have to be purchased in order to get things to an acceptable level, that are not up to par on base hardware. Most games can get this going just fine with the bare minimum. That they made it to only sound good on additional hardware, is all on them.
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Right, you keep mixing things here. I shouldn't have to buy [extra hardware] to make the most of out of a game is a different argument from I shouldn't have to buy [extra hardware] to play the game. But plenty of games fall into that latter category, not that that matters here.

I agree. It should work out of the box on basic hardware. But suggesting that extra or higher grade hardware shouldn't be available to make the most out of a game, or that games shouldn't target that hardware as well is nonsense. It applies to TVs just the same as speakers.

My personal benchmark for a decent sim is the keyboard controls, believe it or not. GPL, LFS and a handful of others have excellent keyboard controls. DiRT Rally comes close. But you can still only get the most out of them with a wheel.

Does that mean you have to buy a wheel? No. Does it mean that a wheel is the better way to enjoy the game? Certainly. Do you have to buy a sound system for GT's sound? No (but you do have to pay attention to the settings). Is it the best way to enjoy it? Yes. That can't be said of every game, bizarrely.


(The issues with the GT games have also been their defaulting to multichannel output over HDMI, which many TVs truncate to stereo - this means exhausts were not played back at all because they were usually mixed into the surround channels that got dropped! There is also the default dynamic range compression that obscures quieter sounds, but it's required because the sound engine has a very high dynamic range that sounds excellent on the right hardware but too quiet and too loud on TV speakers).

ImaRobot
I don't see it as that, because these things are necessary to even play games. These are the bare minimum, that all should have expected to have to purchase if they want to get into this.

I can't see the game if I don't have a TV. I can't play the game if I don't have a console, I also can't play the game if I don't have the game. These are expected, and anything after that should count as accessories, not necessary equipment.
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An HDTV is not "necessary". (The situation is even less clear cut on PC)

A discrete sound system is not "necessary".

Would you play a game without an HDTV? Would you play a game without semi-decent audio hardware? Why should they be treated differently? They're both extremely important forms of feedback, especially in racing games.


Remember I'm arguing in general terms, not about specific games.
 
Griffith500
I agree. It should work out of the box on basic hardware. But suggesting that extra or higher grade hardware shouldn't be available to make the most out of a game, or that games shouldn't target that hardware as well is nonsense. It applies to TVs just the same as speakers.
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I was not suggesting that extra's shouldn't be available in order to get the most out of the game, but more so that the base should run fine, and extra's should amplify that. Nothing more, nothing less(while the base isn't exactly running bad, its general consensus that they are lacking in general. I agree, but it doesn't bother me too much.) I've never suggested that developers should only target the base, rather than the other, I would just appreciate the base to be more taken more into consideration. Much like Pcars problems with optimized controls for consoles, or lack there of actually. Sure things work better with a wheel, but that should not mean that things should run relatively worse without the extras. I'm not suggesting that they ignore one in favor of the other. Quite the opposite really.

Griffith500
My personal benchmark for a decent sim is the keyboard controls, believe it or not. GPL, LFS and a handful of others have excellent keyboard controls. DiRT Rally comes close. But you can still only get the most out of them with a wheel.
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I have a hard time trying to use just the D-pad, so kudos to you for being able to accomplish that :lol:. I could never wrap my head around the face-button control scheme that GT had. It's triggers or bust for me, since I'm kinda restricted to a pad for now.

Griffith500
Does that mean you have to buy a wheel? No. Does it mean that a wheel is the better way to enjoy the game? Certainly. Do you have to buy a sound system for GT's sound? No (but you do have to pay attention to the settings). Is it the best way to enjoy it? Yes. That can't be said of every game, bizarrely.
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Well in the case we are talking about, and how you described Pcars and Forza sounds being made to be enjoyable right out of the box like that, I just expected PD to be able to accomplish something similar. Buying a full range speaker system shouldn't be an option to make relatively lack-luster sounds, enjoyable. Sure it'll change the immersion factor, and it's something I might very much enjoy, but it's just not a fix in my opinion.

Griffith500
(The issues with the GT games have also been their defaulting to multichannel output over HDMI, which many TVs truncate to stereo - this means exhausts were not played back at all because they were usually mixed into the surround channels that got dropped! There is also the default dynamic range compression that obscures quieter sounds, but it's required because the sound engine has a very high dynamic range that sounds excellent on the right hardware but too quiet and too loud on TV speakers).
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I know you know your stuff on this subject, and I've read many of your post on the matter, so I wont argue your case there, but surely something could have been done with the sounds that would have made them more enjoyable without having to buy into extra's. I know its hard to expect every dev to be able to accomplish things in a similar manner, but I would expect that they'd be able to trump companies like T10, and SMS in regards to taking a base into full effect(sms is hit and miss, as mentioned with the whole pad optimization debacle.) Am I terribly distraught by this situation? No, not really, but my main point was just that I don't feel buying into extra's is a good fix for things. Sure it always makes things better, I agree, but it shouldn't be to compensate something that is relatively lackluster in the base.

Griffith500
An HDTV is not "necessary". (The situation is even less clear cut on PC)

A discrete sound system is not "necessary".

Would you play a game without an HDTV? Would you play a game without semi-decent audio hardware? Why should they be treated differently? They're both extremely important forms of feedback, especially in racing games.


Remember I'm arguing in general terms, not about specific games.
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An HDTV is necessary for gaming this generation. Both Xbox One and PS4 only have HDMI outputs available.

As it sits, I would not be able to play a game without an HDTV, if I want to stay on this generation.

My preference is based around the lack of space at my apartment, and me not wanting to completely buy into expensive peripherals for the time being. Sure if people have the option to do that, that's fine, but I would just like to avoid as many SMS situations as I can with the whole argument of buying into extra's to make something that is pretty poor by example, better. However, by next year these are all things I'll likely be buying into, so I probably won't even care in the long run. Not to fix a situation, but to make my situation more immersive. This is just my preference for now, as is what you're posting is yours.

Not dissecting your post, just makes it easier to respond to individual segments.
 
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Palestinian
PD and Kaz are awesome. They have done a perfect job on GT sport. Car count is too many, but it's good. There online rating system is best thing since sliced bread. They have good number of tracks. The visuals are too good tbh. Best sounds in the history of sim racing. Most realistic physics possible. Well done

If they could include D-Box software so a motion system could be integrated with the game then no need to launch another game after this one.
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Give him a chance gents, we are all enthusiasts after all. And he may even be proved right. I am not a fan of this ganging up culture.
 

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