Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Johnnypenso]

Exactly. Not everyone enjoys the game the same way.
Having "better off track physics" doesn't necessarily make the game "better". Maybe more complete as a Sim, but for the ordinary player it will make no difference if it is the way it is now or ultra realistic. Maybe for some, ultra realistic physics might make the game too difficult to enjoy, leading to frustration instead of joy. We can't forget, this is a mainstream title/series. GT and Forza are the Battlefield and FIFAs of racing games. They could aim for ultra realism, but this games wouldn't feel fun for the regular player. Imagine ultra realistic FIFA? Pretty much unplayable for 10 min. matches. Or Battlefield, where sand slows you down compared to tarmac/stiff ground, you bleed after get shot, etc. That wouldn't make the game better, instead it would restrict the player base.

Both GT and Forza should still be the middle ground between full on Sims and Arcade games. Somewhat realistic to an extent, but without loosing the fun factor. The moment people acknowledge this, the fuss wont be as big as it has been. After all, the biggest complaints about GT5 and 6 were the sounds and the standards, for the casual player.

DrIving aids are the great equalizer that makes all cars accessible to every player. GT also has traditionally allowed you to swap whatever tires you wanted onto your car. Realistic physics can are no barrier to entry as long as these two things are present in the game.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I just think it's really sad how we can't be sat here hyping over how great the new, not delayed Gran Turismo looks.

Bring back those times PD. Your customers will be back with it too.

 

[GTEFGHA]

View attachment 585646

A clearer shot of the GT86

Mmmmmmmm, yes please my body is ready

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The staff have handed out warnings before when people insist on turning a discussion into a "Versus" thread. Hot tip: don't also add veiled insults to the mix.

Nearly a page of bait posts (and associated responses) deleted. If the same members do the same thing again, they'll be taking a vacation.

 

[freedom1104]

Perhaps after complaints of earlier builds of tracks looking poor they're only wanting to show the more completed tracks?



Perhaps the AI setting was on low, and they didn't look to me as if they were constantly bumping into each other, it does look as if they made mistakes though, which is realistic IMO.

Its on medium/normal AI setting. Not Low.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Exactly. Not everyone enjoys the game the same way.
Having "better off track physics" doesn't necessarily make the game "better". Maybe more complete as a Sim, but for the ordinary player it will make no difference if it is the way it is now or ultra realistic. Maybe for some, ultra realistic physics might make the game too difficult to enjoy, leading to frustration instead of joy. We can't forget, this is a mainstream title/series. GT and Forza are the Battlefield and FIFAs of racing games. They could aim for ultra realism, but this games wouldn't feel fun for the regular player. Imagine ultra realistic FIFA? Pretty much unplayable for 10 min. matches. Or Battlefield, where sand slows you down compared to tarmac/stiff ground, you bleed after get shot, etc. That wouldn't make the game better, instead it would restrict the player base.

Both GT and Forza should still be the middle ground between full on Sims and Arcade games. Somewhat realistic to an extent, but without loosing the fun factor. The moment people acknowledge this, the fuss wont be as big as it has been. After all, the biggest complaints about GT5 and 6 were the sounds and the standards, for the casual player.

Disagree in some points, having ultra realistic physics in this genre in particular is always a good thing because it's one of the few if not the only genre where you can almost replicate real life.

GT should not be the middle ground in my opinion, Driveclub and Forza Horizon are (add games like Grid to that list), Granturismo should strive for that in my opinion go realistic and add OPTIONS to tone it down for other players, GT has lately been inconsistent during gameplay, you tune your car, you drive in a real life motorsport manner, nailing the apex etc, but then you have basically bumper cars as a collision system, with no damage and that makes it so frustrating.

 

[freedom1104]

Disagree in some points, having ultra realistic physics in this genre in particular is always a good thing because it's one of the few if not the only genre where you can almost replicate real life.

GT should not be the middle ground in my opinion, Driveclub and Forza Horizon are (add games like Grid to that list), Granturismo should strive for that in my opinion go realistic and add OPTIONS to tone it down for other players, GT has lately been inconsistent during gameplay, you tune your car, you drive in a real life motorsport manner, nailing the apex etc, but then you have basically bumper cars as a collision system, with no damage and that makes it so frustrating.

Ultra realistic physics or not. Will this be a deciding factor? If this is scrapped. I had no complains.

 

[sems4arsenal]

@freedom1104 Will remain to be seen how that works, but I see no reason why an FIA partnership should be scraped.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

Article about TGS has been posted on the Pitstop blog.

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/article/2752

 

[Lain]

Disagree in some points, having ultra realistic physics in this genre in particular is always a good thing because it's one of the few if not the only genre where you can almost replicate real life.

GT should not be the middle ground in my opinion, Driveclub and Forza Horizon are (add games like Grid to that list), Granturismo should strive for that in my opinion go realistic and add OPTIONS to tone it down for other players, GT has lately been inconsistent during gameplay, you tune your car, you drive in a real life motorsport manner, nailing the apex etc, but then you have basically bumper cars as a collision system, with no damage and that makes it so frustrating.

I have no problem with GT's unrealistic crashing physics. It's a legitimate gameplay design choice, in my opinion. Make the driving physics realistic, but allow less serious players to bump their way to victory.

The only issue is when the serious and the casual mentalities clash in online racing. Though realistic crash physics isn't a perfect remedy for that either. We'll just have to trust that GTSport's driver rating stuff is effective.

 

[Normalaatsra]

Article about TGS has been posted on the Pitstop blog.

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/article/2752

Their stream begins in 2 days. This should be their special feature.

 

[jm79]

Article about TGS has been posted on the Pitstop blog.

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/article/2752

Thanks man.

It looks just like another exhibition race, though having Chiyo there is pretty cool

 

[Imari]

Poly please, stop showing GT in this state... And don't be surprised if people are laughing at your game in 2016 when it looks like GT5 with HD (boring?) graphics.
It's like GT6 but on PS4 without dynamic TOD/weather. After three years of development.

To be fair, that demo reminds me a lot of GT5P.

Perhaps after complaints of earlier builds of tracks looking poor they're only wanting to show the more completed tracks?

Probably not. Fisherman's Friend or whatever the rally track is called has the same problem. Lighting and textures are spectacular, but the setting is dull and it's still having issues with flickering in trees and such.

@freedom1104 Will remain to be seen how that works, but I see no reason why an FIA partnership should be scraped.

Depends if the FIA gets bored of waiting for Polyphony to release their game. That might be a reason.

 

[Seanspeed]

DrIving aids are the great equalizer that makes all cars accessible to every player.

I really dont think this is the case. Driving aids make the cars a bit more forgiving, but the base physics dont change. If you've got a game like rFactor2 or Assetto Corsa, using driving aids wont suddenly make the game feel like GT/Forza. It still requires more depth in skills and precision to drive quickly.

If Polyphony or Turn 10 wanted to make these games hardcore sims, they could. But they want to keep the games accessible to a greater number of people and driving aids alone wouldn't be enough.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Article about TGS has been posted on the Pitstop blog.

http://pitstop.gran-turismo.com/article/2752

Hopefully they show something new.

edit: @Lain Give us both options then, even in most arcade games the collisions have consequences, if it's a design choice it's terrible, what's fun about bumping cars to win?

 

[dacc10]

DrIving aids are the great equalizer that makes all cars accessible to every player. GT also has traditionally allowed you to swap whatever tires you wanted onto your car. Realistic physics can are no barrier to entry as long as these two things are present in the game.

As I was about to answer, @Seanspeed did it for me.

Disagree in some points, having ultra realistic physics in this genre in particular is always a good thing because it's one of the few if not the only genre where you can almost replicate real life.

GT should not be the middle ground in my opinion, Driveclub and Forza Horizon are (add games like Grid to that list), Granturismo should strive for that in my opinion go realistic and add OPTIONS to tone it down for other players, GT has lately been inconsistent during gameplay, you tune your car, you drive in a real life motorsport manner, nailing the apex etc, but then you have basically bumper cars as a collision system, with no damage and that makes it so frustrating.

It still depends on the player base. You might enjoy Sims, but neither you or the relatively small Sim racers player base (compared to a GT or Forza player base) represent what most want.
Without GT (and Forza Motorsport) in this middle ground, then this "middle of the table" between arcade and sims wouldn't exist. FH is not the same thing as GT, it's an arcade game even compared to the big brother Forza Motorsport. Driveclub it's still mostly an arcade racer with very nice cars.
What kind of Options could tone the game down? Apart from physics changes, that would make the game completely different between different settings, I don't see how.

I get what you say about the collisions and damage. But those things can be changed, there is no need to "go back to the drawing board" just for that. Specially when there are bigger concerns about the game (Sounds? AI? Offline career mode?). Maybe they are dealing with the damage model now, after all the cars were modeled, who knows? They might be working on them right now, and prefer not to show an half-done version of it. At this point we don't know, they don't say anything. Hell, we still have no idea about why the game was delayed...

 

[sems4arsenal]

@dacc10 I'd argue that most people who buy GT games wouldn't care if it got more or less realistic, with the right learning tools and driving aids you can hold beginners hands. People buy GT game on the merits of having a huge, beautiful, car collecting RPG and because it's a GT game,

Sounds, AI, etc are also some of the reasons they need to get back to the drawing board (damage was just an example).

 

[skazz]

I'd argue that one thing modern simulators demonstrate is that realistic physics don't equal harder to drive. If anything, they make it easier because cars respond more logically. I suspect some guys still think of PC simulators from 10 years ago, where there was a tendency for "simulator" to basically mean "driving on ice". That's no longer the case.

Gran Turismo has never tried to be "too fast, too much grip, too good brakes" semi-sim, so I really don't see what the downside would be to improving the physics. Driving assists are still available, after all.

 

[TayeezSA]

they'll be taking a vacation.

Durban is quite nice this time of year. The sandy beaches are warm, the food stalls are quite lovely and reasonably priced. Plus there's great areas to mock up a few Scapes for GTS.

Shall I book the plane tickets?

Oh wait it's not that kinda vacation.... Hmmmmm....

In other news, do you guys think PD will use one build and one only, not any updates that come along for GTAcademy? It makes sense to me so no one is at a disadvantage because another area had a better build.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Just an interesting though that crossed my mind regarding the delay to 2017.

PD can continue adding content to GTS and maybe they will finally call it GT7 Sport instead.

Forza Horizon 3 releasing this year. Going by their alternate year releases next year Forza 7 will come out.

Next year is shaping up to be a battle of the sevens

 

[Johnnypenso]

I really dont think this is the case. Driving aids make the cars a bit more forgiving, but the base physics dont change. If you've got a game like rFactor2 or Assetto Corsa, using driving aids wont suddenly make the game feel like GT/Forza. It still requires more depth in skills and precision to drive quickly.

If Polyphony or Turn 10 wanted to make these games hardcore sims, they could. But they want to keep the games accessible to a greater number of people and driving aids alone wouldn't be enough.

Incorrect. SRF does change the base physics. PD is also including brake assist this time around. Driving aids can and do make any game accessible to anyone it's simply a matter of design.

 

[Imari]

If Polyphony or Turn 10 wanted to make these games hardcore sims, they could. But they want to keep the games accessible to a greater number of people and driving aids alone wouldn't be enough.

I'm not sure about that. T10 seem to be pushing as hard as they can for realism. Polyphony has so many flaws in their physics even at a moderate level that I highly doubt that they could push further if they wanted to.

 

[jm79]

I'm not sure about that. T10 seem to be pushing as hard as they can for realism. Polyphony has so many flaws in their physics even at a moderate level that I highly doubt that they could push further if they wanted to.

That is an absurd thing to claim, surely... What do you even mean? Didn't the VVV or insidesimracing guy or whatever, say the physics were near AC-level at E3...?

 

[Johnnypenso]

That is an absurd thing to claim, surely... What do you even mean? Didn't the VVV or insidesimracing guy or whatever, say the physics were near AC-level at E3...?

Nothing is proven yet with regard to GTS, the game isn't released. Impressions at a game show hardly count as a real trial of the entire physics engine. GT6 on the other hand is full of glaring flaws in the physics.

 

[SlimCharles]

That is an absurd thing to claim, surely... What do you even mean? Didn't the VVV or insidesimracing guy or whatever, say the physics were near AC-level at E3...?

No, nobody said that. And I see that affirmation a lot, when it is false. John Sabol specifically said:

"In fact, the physics remind me quite a bit of Assetto Corsa´s physics on a Playstation 4 wich I just driven the day before as well"

That is far from saying "the physics were near AC-level at E3". Another thing is saying Forza is a simulator or much more simulation than GT... it just isnt. GT and Forza are the same type of game. Simcades to sell a lot. They never cant be pure simulators.

 

[jm79]

Nothing is proven yet with regard to GTS, the game isn't released. Impressions at a game show hardly count as a real trial of the entire physics engine. GT6 on the other hand is full of glaring flaws in the physics.

Oh come on, it wasn't that bad! Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it was still pretty good...
Glaring flaws is a bit of an overstatement, lol

No, nobody said that. And I see that affirmation a lot, when it is false. John Sabol specifically said:

"In fact, the physics remind me quite a bit of Assetto Corsa´s physics on a Playstation 4 wich I just driven the day before as well"

I disagree with your semantic interpretation there, haha - you could easily read:

"remind me quite a bit of"

and

"near AC-level"

as very similar statements... But hey, each to their own.

 

[Scaff]

I disagree with your semantic interpretation there, haha - you could easily read:

"remind me quite a bit of"

and

"near AC-level"

as very similar statements... But hey, each to their own bias!

I've played both, GTS is an improvement over GT6, but its not near AC-level (or PCars for that matter), parts of it remind me of both AC and PCars, but that's still quite different from it being near the level of either of those.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh come on, it wasn't that bad! Sure, it wasn't perfect, but it was still pretty good...
Glaring flaws is a bit of an overstatement, lol!

Top speed is off by 10% on some cars, camber doesn't work, ride height is backwards, cars are faster under the pp system with "dirty oil" etc. What exactly would have to be wrong to consider it glaring?

 

[Lain]

Hopefully they show something new.

edit: @Lain Give us both options then, even in most arcade games the collisions have consequences, if it's a design choice it's terrible, what's fun about bumping cars to win?

It's not about it being fun, it's about allowing players who can't help but crash to still win (though ideally not online against serious opponents).

Your option for disabling this crash assist? Just flick the switch to "don't crash" and you're all set!

 

[Scaff]

Off topic (and baseless) complaints about bias and unfair treatment have been deleted.

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