Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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RIKY-WRC
I'm loving the beta, but I am totally agree with you. I need more real life cars, those Impreza, Genesis, Evo, etc (Gr.3) are amazing, but I would like to see more real life cars. The VGT program is cool, but... nope!

I think these amount of fake cars only happen in this game... Forza, pCars, Assetto don't do that kind of stuff, am I wrong?
Click to expand...
I can't speak for any sim other than Assetto Corsa. The closest AC comes to fantasy cars is the tuned versions of a handful of cars. Even those, however, are usually based on the real thing. Visually, you can't tell a difference. The Lamborghini Gallardo, for instance, has a 1200hp version to compliment the regular Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera that they've licensed from Lamborghini. The inspiration for this 1200hp version is one of the UGR Gallardos that do exist in real life.

Coming out with the VGT project almost reeks of desperation from a company on the verge of collapse or dangling on the edge of being forgotten by their faithful audience for PCars, Forza or Assetto Corsa. The reality, as I see it, is the VGT program actually turned many people off to GT as a whole. While it is probably a majority of GT6 owners who do like the VGT project & cars, I'd be shocked beyond belief if Gran Turismo 6 earned new customers because of the VGT project.

Seeing that this is a Beta version (sort of), I wouldn't be totally surprised if Polyphony Digital has some tricks up their sleeves. There is no way that PD could be unaware of the massive discontent with their last title overall. Sales numbers don't lie. The eSports direction seems interesting...but it needs to be real cars on the track to wash the bad taste out of many player's mouths. After all, isn't the whole point of the FIA approval & TAG Heuer time keeping to push Gran Turismo into a more realistic experience for sim racers?
 
Tassie_tiger
I just want to add a few general observations and thoughts.

I note the 2 differing BOP's for each car between "Circuit" and "Oval".
I see that Oval events have a tuning (settings) lock on cars (maybe not always?).
I see there is a "Reward" button next to the "Results" button at face end in Sport mode.


I feel the daily reward is a Beta thing only, and won't be part of the final game.
I don't believe any gains/stats from the beta will carry over to the final game.
And I feel the DR and SR ratings system, after the final adjustments are made, will work well after a couple of months of game-play, and that the current concerns are jumping the gun too early.
Click to expand...
Why do you think the SR system will work well after a couple of months? If anything it could be worse. After people have a significant number of races under their belt and their SR is pretty much set, the ability to simply bump someone off and know the system doesn't penalize you is very tempting in anonymous only racing.

RIKY-WRC
I'm loving the beta, but I am totally agree with you. I need more real life cars, those Impreza, Genesis, Evo, etc (Gr.3) are amazing, but I would like to see more real life cars. The VGT program is cool, but... nope!

I think these amount of fake cars only happen in this game... Forza, pCars, Assetto don't do that kind of stuff, am I wrong?
Click to expand...
There are a couple in Project Cars 1, created by the players themselves. Here's one of them, the Marek RP 219D LMP2. Fits into the LMP2 class and built to LMP2 specs from the ground up:
maxresdefault.jpg
 
Johnnypenso
There are a couple in Project Cars 1, created by the players themselves. Here's one of them, the Marek RP 219D LMP2. Fits into the LMP2 class and built to LMP2 specs from the ground up
Click to expand...

Those are the keywords, What racing series Would the VGT cars fit into?
 
another_jakhole
PD doesn't have to answer to us. SMS have that gofundme process. That's all I'm saying.
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That wasn't the original point of discussion. The original point I responded to was that PD deserves respect because they are moving in the right direction and they are made up of people. This has nothing at all to do with SMS or with PD answering questions on this forum.
 
Don't know if you guys are having fun in all your online races in this beta, but for me... It's kind of a huge disappointment.

I don't know why there are so many people who drive like this game was NFS or GTA. I think this game is just for racing, but having fun.. I've recently finished a race in Nurburgring, in the middle of an army full of Evos (and I, with my Megane), and i first thought it could be a nice battle due to the 4WD factor of their cars..

Further than that, the race has turned into a kind of GTA stunts, with people crashing into me like hell. Seriously, don't know why these kind of people have had the opportunity to play this beta, while there are so many other people, people who know a thing called "fair play", that can't play this beta.

I have not ever needed to say something like this, because I've always played between good drivers, but.. Seriously, don't play like this if you don't want to take it serious (in the fun way, of course).

Cheers!
 
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Johnnypenso
Why do you think the SR system will work well after a couple of months? If anything it could be worse. After people have a significant number of races under their belt and their SR is pretty much set, the ability to simply bump someone off and know the system doesn't penalize you is very tempting in anonymous only racing.

There are a couple in Project Cars 1, created by the players themselves. Here's one of them, the Marek RP 219D LMP2. Fits into the LMP2 class and built to LMP2 specs from the ground up:
maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

It's true, but.. If I am right, the fake ones in pcars are only in the LMP1 class, and are only a few... If you look at GTSport, we have more than 20 fake cars easily..
 
RIKY-WRC
It's true, but.. If I am right, the fake ones in pcars are only in the LMP1 class, and are only a few... If you look at GTSport, we have more than 20 fake cars easily..
Click to expand...

There are 2 LMP2 and 2 LMP1, but as mentioned, they have been build to extend the respective category to have some variations on track and they fit quite well in regards of laptimes. Also, IIRC 1-2 of the RUF are not existent in real life (the GT3 version for example) and they have been developed together with RUF, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

For me, that is the big difference to the VGT's. They were fun to drive 2-3 laps around the track and that's it. In Pcars, I drive one of the fictional cars in my career atm and it doesn't feel "fake" because it fits very well unlike most of the VGT's in GT6. They don't really have a purpose other than showing of. Quite liked the Mercedes though.
 
I haven't played the beta in a week or so, ever since I've gotten all 36 cars and have raced on all the tracks given to us, It hasn't felt the same. The beta has also gotten stale with racing against the same drivers each race and getting the same mid field finish. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and the next part I'm about to say might be far fetched, but I would like to see maybe a few new things or maybe a new feature available in the beta to spice things up a bit.
 
Bobert power
I haven't played the beta in a week or so, ever since I've gotten all 36 cars and have raced on all the tracks given to us, It hasn't felt the same. The beta has also gotten stale with racing against the same drivers each race and getting the same mid field finish. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and the next part I'm about to say might be far fetched, but I would like to see maybe a few new things or maybe a new feature available in the beta to spice things up a bit.
Click to expand...

You're not alone. Rain and different time of day for the Ring are popular suggestions in EU forum.

I'd say setting BOP of cars for rain races is important especially if they persists on using AWD cars.

But what I think is left is just the dirt track.
 
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RIKY-WRC
It's true, but.. If I am right, the fake ones in pcars are only in the LMP1 class, and are only a few... If you look at GTSport, we have more than 20 fake cars easily..
Click to expand...
Yep, that's what I was getting at. PARS has a couple of fictional cars but, if you didn't look at the name, you'd never know they weren't real cars to begin with. They sound great and handle similarly to the rest of the cars in their respective classes.
 
diesel97
Those are the keywords, What racing series Would the VGT cars fit into?
Click to expand...

Depends on the cars. The Toyota FT-1 for instance could be a GT3 car (I mean hell, they let Renault have one without an actual road car so why the hell not). The VW Roadster and the Peugeot, nowhere really (I only assume they are their in GT Sport just as quick fixes for representation In the manufacturer Cup as because besides the 908, what does Peugeot have?).
The SRT Tomahawk is more or less a Garage 56 candidate while both the Mazda and Hyundai cars are basically LMP1.

RIKY-WRC
It's true, but.. If I am right, the fake ones in pcars are only in the LMP1 class, and are only a few... If you look at GTSport, we have more than 20 fake cars easily..
Click to expand...

In PCARs, there is actually 9 fictional cars (the RWDs and Mareks in LMP, Formula A and B and C AND The RUF GT cars)

In GT Sport, its only 14 in the beta. Even then if you subtract the VGTs, its only 11 cars and if you add the Mazda, Hyundai and SRT VGTs seen in other builds, its 17 (still less then 20).
 
RIKY-WRC
It's true, but.. If I am right, the fake ones in pcars are only in the LMP1 class, and are only a few... If you look at GTSport, we have more than 20 fake cars easily..
Click to expand...
Slight exaggeration, but those "fake cars" are put into the game because the manufacturer's decided on it for their vision gt collaboration with PD. If they bother someone, why use it? I haven't seen anything yet of proof they're included instead of a real car. I like to look at (some of) them as added bonuses ;)
 
Johnnypenso
Why do you think the SR system will work well after a couple of months? If anything it could be worse. After people have a significant number of races under their belt and their SR is pretty much set, the ability to simply bump someone off and know the system doesn't penalize you is very tempting in anonymous only racing.
Click to expand...
Fair call.
Perhaps I should make an alteration and explain my thoughts.

First, a couple of months is perhaps a bit short, so allow me to expand that out to 3 or 4 months. :)


The "current concerns" comment was more in response to those many posts that feel they should be doing better but aren't able to because they are getting crashed out.
With some using the somewhat derogatory term of "crash kiddies".
Given time, and with a far larger user base than the closed beta, these people should rise in rank.
They should find themselves running in perhaps A or even S.
I can only imagine most will also hold a decent SR rating.
There should also be more races using more track/car combinations to select from.
So it seems reasonable to assume, for these people, problem solved.

I have noticed some bad grids in the beta.
C grade, even B grade, mixed with E grade and a significant spread of SR.
Saying that I've also seen some good grids, one being all D grade drivers with SR either 45 or 46.
So I think the bad grids are perhaps from filling races with the limited options available.

I do understand that there will be people of all ages, experience, and ability playing the game.
And of course some will no doubt not advance beyond perhaps D grade.
For those people, things may not be quite so pretty.
But I'm not sure how you could get around that one.

So while I'm with you regarding some of the concerns about the SR system alone, I feel the combination of both DR and SR should work out well in the long run.
At least for the majority of well experienced players that frequent this forum.

ALB123
Coming out with the VGT project almost reeks of desperation from a company on the verge of collapse or dangling on the edge of being forgotten by their faithful audience for PCars, Forza or Assetto Corsa. The reality, as I see it, is the VGT program actually turned many people off to GT as a whole. While it is probably a majority of GT6 owners who do like the VGT project & cars, I'd be shocked beyond belief if Gran Turismo 6 earned new customers because of the VGT project.
Click to expand...

The last part of your paragraph is not something I would agree with, but we all have our opinions.
But the first sentence seems well off the mark to me.
Or at least, you have you timelines well out of whack.

The "coming out" of the Vision project was the better part of a year before the GT5 servers were shut down, and months before GT6 was released.
It would be a brave man to suggest that the sales numbers of GT5 had PD on the verge of collapse, dangling on the edge of being forgotten, or desperate.

The project is continuing beyond GT6 because it isn't finished.
And personally I think that's the appropriate thing for PD to do.
 
Tassie_tiger
The project is continuing beyond GT6 because it isn't finished.
And personally I think that's the appropriate thing for PD to do.
Click to expand...

I think the appropriate thing for them to do would be to finish adding to GT6 what they had advertised for it. I think carrying the program over to GTS feels a bit like "we know you're going to buy GTS anyway, so what difference does it make if you get it in GT6 or GTS?"

Well, for some GTS isn't a guaranteed purchase after the highly misleading feature advertising of GT6. Assuming that those people who were into the VGTs in GT6 will buy GTS simply to get their money's worth from GT6 seems a bit arse backwards. You win customers by providing them with value, not by expecting them to spend multiple times to get what was originally advertised.

I accept that this isn't going to happen, and I understand that Polyphony still want to get use out of their VGTs that are still trickling in. But I think that it sends the wrong message to customers, especially customers who may have felt burned by GT6. I think they'd have been better off with new cars entirely, or at the very least starting a completely different concept car program.
 
Imari
I think the appropriate thing for them to do would be to finish adding to GT6 what they had advertised for it. I think carrying the program over to GTS feels a bit like "we know you're going to buy GTS anyway, so what difference does it make if you get it in GT6 or GTS?"

Well, for some GTS isn't a guaranteed purchase after the highly misleading feature advertising of GT6. Assuming that those people who were into the VGTs in GT6 will buy GTS simply to get their money's worth from GT6 seems a bit arse backwards. You win customers by providing them with value, not by expecting them to spend multiple times to get what was originally advertised.

I accept that this isn't going to happen, and I understand that Polyphony still want to get use out of their VGTs that are still trickling in. But I think that it sends the wrong message to customers, especially customers who may have felt burned by GT6. I think they'd have been better off with new cars entirely, or at the very least starting a completely different concept car program.
Click to expand...
I'm happy to admit that the 2 cars we have seen playable, the Bugatti and the Hyundai, not making it into GT6 is disappointing.
The only other car we know of is the Pininfarina.

What I would say though is that I can't see the GT6 servers still being open when the project is finished.
Obviously I don't know, just my guess.
But should that be the case, GT6 will be incomplete anyway.
The ties must be cut at some stage, and apart from the disappointment I described above, I'm okay with the falling away of GT6 Vision updates.
 
Tassie_tiger
I have noticed some bad grids in the beta.
C grade, even B grade, mixed with E grade and a significant spread of SR.
Saying that I've also seen some good grids, one being all D grade drivers with SR either 45 or 46.
So I think the bad grids are perhaps from filling races with the limited options available.

I do understand that there will be people of all ages, experience, and ability playing the game.
And of course some will no doubt not advance beyond perhaps D grade.
For those people, things may not be quite so pretty.
But I'm not sure how you could get around that one.

So while I'm with you regarding some of the concerns about the SR system alone, I feel the combination of both DR and SR should work out well in the long run.
At least for the majority of well experienced players that frequent this forum.
Click to expand...

Yesterday's Gr.4 Brands Hatch Indy last race (in my case) was a complete joke. I saw drivers on the grid with an SR between 52 and 55, mostly C grades. I starded 2nd with my SLS but when the lights went off I was already 5th or 6th at the first corner because the GT-R's... well we all know what they can do.
I was determined to fight for positions so I was driving agressively but cautious at the same time down the hill when a pack of 4 GT-R's just throw me off the track on Druid's. All of them with C grade. I was expecting fair race but nah, I was wrong.
 
Tassie_tiger
The "current concerns" comment was more in response to those many posts that feel they should be doing better but aren't able to because they are getting crashed out.
With some using the somewhat derogatory term of "crash kiddies".
Given time, and with a far larger user base than the closed beta, these people should rise in rank.
They should find themselves running in perhaps A or even S.
I can only imagine most will also hold a decent SR rating.
There should also be more races using more track/car combinations to select from.
So it seems reasonable to assume, for these people, problem solved.
Click to expand...

Then I'll another to "those many posts"!

No. 2 months, 4 months, doesn't matter. Crash kiddies isn't a term I'd use, and wouldn't be accurate anyway. The most troubling are those that have some pace, but know what the SR system lets them get away with. Their SR is rising as fast as mine (faster, in the races where I'm a victim). That's because they lose nothing by forcing someone off the road, either sideways or by nudging from behind while braking. Presumably since they're gaining places their DR is going up as well. One race last night with a particularly bad example of this kind of driver ended predictably - all 6 drivers between his starting and finishing position lost SR, while pretty much everybody else gained SR. That's how much damage just one nasty driver can do!

50-ish SR is pretty hard to improve from without being one of the elite. Below that, you can gain 2 SR per race. At or above you can only gain 1 per race. At some point above, you can lose 2 or more SR per race (with 75 SR, Firehuntah lost 3). Expect to see 80% of drivers having 50 to 60 SR forever, many of which could get a higher SR if they were a bit faster. In other words, SR ends up in part rating the wrong aspect.

They could improve it, but will they? Going off track should not be penalised where time is lost. There's no real difficulty in implementing that, and it would match real racing rules... yet PD's design decision appears to be otherwise. That would least removes one case of 'reversed reward' in the SR system, and the victim doesn't lose SR. Still a victim though, and the perpetrator still hasn't lost anything. So to remedy that, any contact preceding someone going off track should be treated as a stronger collision, with both players losing SR (not ideal, but the best that's realistic to implement).

Whatever, somehow, the system needs to stop rewarding dangerous driving.
 
Ramalhinho91
Yesterday's Gr.4 Brands Hatch Indy last race (in my case) was a complete joke. I saw drivers on the grid with an SR between 52 and 55, mostly C grades. I starded 2nd with my SLS but when the lights went off I was already 5th or 6th at the first corner because the GT-R's... well we all know what they can do.
I was determined to fight for positions so I was driving agressively but cautious at the same time down the hill when a pack of 4 GT-R's just throw me off the track on Druid's. All of them with C grade. I was expecting fair race but nah, I was wrong.
Click to expand...
It sounds like your biggest gripe here is BoP.
And yes, there does seem to be a few select cars that need reviewing.

Outspacer
Then I'll another to "those many posts"!

No. 2 months, 4 months, doesn't matter. Crash kiddies isn't a term I'd use, and wouldn't be accurate anyway. The most troubling are those that have some pace, but know what the SR system lets them get away with. Their SR is rising as fast as mine (faster, in the races where I'm a victim). That's because they lose nothing by forcing someone off the road, either sideways or by nudging from behind while braking. Presumably since they're gaining places their DR is going up as well. One race last night with a particularly bad example of this kind of driver ended predictably - all 6 drivers between his starting and finishing position lost SR, while pretty much everybody else gained SR. That's how much damage just one nasty driver can do!

50-ish SR is pretty hard to improve from without being one of the elite. Below that, you can gain 2 SR per race. At or above you can only gain 1 per race. At some point above, you can lose 2 or more SR per race (with 75 SR, Firehuntah lost 3). Expect to see 80% of drivers having 50 to 60 SR forever, many of which could get a higher SR if they were a bit faster. In other words, SR ends up in part rating the wrong aspect.

They could improve it, but will they? Going off track should not be penalised where time is lost. There's no real difficulty in implementing that, and it would match real racing rules... yet PD's design decision appears to be otherwise. That would least removes one case of 'reversed reward' in the SR system, and the victim doesn't lose SR. Still a victim though, and the perpetrator still hasn't lost anything. So to remedy that, any contact preceding someone going off track should be treated as a stronger collision, with both players losing SR (not ideal, but the best that's realistic to implement).

Whatever, somehow, the system needs to stop rewarding dangerous driving.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the system will be improved, perhaps it won't.
Who knows?

Even now it is clearly going to be a massive step forward compared to the random GT6 Quickmatch.
And I'm confident it will provide much better racing.

Sure, some people will game the system.
Some people will game any system.
I'm not claiming it's perfect.
I'm simply suggesting we wait for the final game and give it some time for people to land in their classes before calling doom and gloom.
 

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