Gran Turismo Sport vs. Assetto Corsa

  • Thread starter super_gt
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Aussie_HSV
Can someone please explain to me, when there are so many driving game fans here, that a single shot of a beta 'scape' image from GTS can induce multiple pages of discussion, and yet on the AC board, not one of those people having a dig at GTS offer their 'opinion' at all on the graphical misgivings of AC?
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People are more passionate about GT? GT has more players? I haven't played a single minute of Assetto Corsa, I've no inclination to go into the AC sub-forum and start critiquing it. I've no vested interest.
 
Samus
People are more passionate about GT? GT has more players? I haven't played a single minute of Assetto Corsa, I've no inclination to go into the AC sub-forum and start critiquing it. I've no vested interest.
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I think it goes beyond that.
I think GT is held to the absolute highest standard, and any flaw is fair game.

In some sense I have no issue with that.
But when other games, direct competitor games, get a free pass, it seems fair to start asking questions.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
What on earth are you talking about ? HSV talked about people here that post in GTS and AC sub forum, it was about scapes in GTS vs graphics in AC, right here on GTP.
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I'm talking about the AC Forum on GTP and why it's different.
 
Johnnypenso
Nope. The tone and tenor of discussion in the AC forum is not the same as this forum. Other than a couple of trolls here and there that eventually got banned, no one is in denial about any of the shortcomings of the game. The discussion in the months leading up to the console release was overwhelmingly real and down to earth. Everyone went out of their way to be honest about what AC was about, what you could expect and what it's shortcomings were. In discussing the game amongst ourselves, the broad strokes are almost always agreed upon and so it's the minutae and personal experience and preference that people tend disagree over. AI behaviour in one game vs. the other, career modes etc. Also, issues come up and we can talk directly to the developers so there's also far, far less guesswork about intentional programming shortcomings. @mister dog for example, mentioned he had a braking issue. He talked directly to the developer, got an answer, and posted a link to the conversation in another thread. In GT a topic like that would go around for months or years without an answer and we'd be left just to speculate. In the official forums many things are discussed directly with the car modelers, AI programmers, general coders etc and we get answers. Those answers are brought to this forum and we aren't left in the dark about most issues with the game.

It's a completely different and much more positive atmosphere.
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Sounds like utopia.

If only us rabid GT fan club mortals could be as fair and balanced at all times as you JP.

Respect.
 
Aussie_HSV
I think it goes beyond that.
I think GT is held to the absolute highest standard, and any flaw is fair game.

In some sense I have no issue with that.
But when other games, direct competitor games, get a free pass, it seems fair to start asking questions.
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Only if you're talking about the exact same people and that they're ignoring the same flaws in other games they're pointing out in Gran Turismo.

Even then not all games can be held to the same standard. I will always expect more from a AAA, First party developer of any game over a small 'indie' studio. So yes, if I was invested in AC I'd certainly give them more leeway when critiquing, they don't have 200+ people and a huge budget.
 
Aussie_HSV
But when other games, direct competitor games, get a free pass, it seems fair to start asking questions.
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Who in the discussions about the GT Sport Scapes post enough in the Assetto Corsa forum to be giving it a free pass? The two biggest contributors to those discussions for all intents and purposes don't post in the Assetto Corsa forum at all. Samus discussed the problems with the Audi scape but hasn't said much about Assetto Corsa since before GT6 came out.
 
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jm79
Sounds like utopia.

If only us rabid GT fan club mortals could be as fair and balanced at all times as you JP.

Respect.
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In that entire paragraph you quoted I talked about the forums in general and never once mentioned myself. Hence:
The tone and tenor of discussion in the AC forum is not the same as this forum.
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Aussie_HSV
Can someone please explain to me, when there are so many driving game fans here, that a single shot of a beta 'scape' image from GTS can induce multiple pages of discussion, and yet on the AC board, not one of those people having a dig at GTS offer their 'opinion' at all on the graphical misgivings of AC?
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Really?

Scaff
The tracks however are a very mixed bunch, the immediate track you are on is OK, but as you get further away from the track the trackside furniture and landscape get more and more basic. It's been a while since I've seen 2D static crowds in a racing title, but here they are. It's not a big deal for me personally (hell I love Seb Loeb Rally and that's one of the worse looking sims around) as its consistent and the bits immediately in front of you are fine. They do however as a result seriously lack atmosphere, the focus in getting the laser scanned detail has clearly taken precedent over every other aspect of the track build.

What is not quite so fine it that you get a bit of pop-up in the distance, which is a pain when attempting to read the track ahead, and a fair degree of screen tearing as well. Now both of these can be quite distracting, the degree to which will vary from person to person and it does need to be resolved.

It also falls foul of some very odd design choices, with you just being dropped into the car on the grid as soon as you hit the race start button, most titles attempt to build some atmosphere at this point, but with AC is clinically straight into the race. The end of the race is no different, with no clear indication the race has even finished bar the chequered flag in the top left corner of the screen. You carry on driving for a few hundred meters and then get teleported back to the pits, at this point it's not clear what is happening and easy to leave the screen. Doing so will however lose all progress and the hard work you have put in will be forgotten. You have to wait for however long it takes for an unknown percentage of the rest of the field to finish and teleport back into the pits before you get the results screen and can safely leave the race!

Its origin as a PC title also show in one other area, the set-up screens for the car while you are in the pits. Its small white text on a picture background, I sit around 1.5 metres (under six foot) from a 50" screen in my rig and I still struggle to read it.
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Not a critical enough 'opinion' for you?

Please take a read of the whole thing and then come back and say I gave it a free pass.
 
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Samus
Only if you're talking about the exact same people and that they're ignoring the same flaws in other games they're pointing out in Gran Turismo.

Even then not all games can be held to the same standard. I will always expect more from a AAA, First party developer of any game over a small 'indie' studio. So yes, if I was invested in AC I'd certainly give them more leeway when critiquing, they don't have 200+ people and a huge budget.
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Could I ask you why you haven't invested in AC?
 
jm79
No, that would be silly. The lighting thing only came up because some peeps here were being a bit snarky to @CLowndes888 for mentioning it. I figured it wasn't an absurd thing to say, far from it, so I mentioned that it was important to me (and to PD, it seems)

Impressive visuals these days are not so much to do with high poly counts or great models, it's the materials and how the scene is lit, that tricks you into thinking the 'realism' is higher. The lighting and FX work is what separates good game visuals from the bad nowadays.

Hence the push, in the case of GTS, for PBR and better lighting solutions. It's a complex field, more so than people realise I think (not that I'm an expert at all, but I know a bit more now thanks to @TrevorPhilips 👍).
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I personally consider lighting to be an important part of a game's presentation. If it's bad, then the game feels a bit dull. I know it sounds crazy to say that it matters, but completely ignoring how the game is lit is kinda stupid really.
 
CLowndes888
I personally consider lighting to be an important part of a game's presentation. If it's bad, then the game feels a bit dull. I know it sounds crazy to say that it matters, but completely ignoring how the game is lit is kinda stupid really.
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1a66ho.jpg
 
jm79
No, that would be silly. The lighting thing only came up because some peeps here were being a bit snarky to @CLowndes888 for mentioning it. I figured it wasn't an absurd thing to say, far from it, so I mentioned that it was important to me (and to PD, it seems)

Impressive visuals these days are not so much to do with high poly counts or great models, it's the materials and how the scene is lit, that tricks you into thinking the 'realism' is higher. The lighting and FX work is what separates good game visuals from the bad nowadays.

Hence the push, in the case of GTS, for PBR and better lighting solutions. It's a complex field, more so than people realise I think (not that I'm an expert at all, but I know a bit more now thanks to @TrevorPhilips 👍).
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I wouldn't say that anyone has been snarky, simply having a different order of priorities is not being snarky, nor is discussing that difference.

I agree that it helps with the atmosphere (Donnington at Sunset in Pcars with the god rays as an example is great at that), but for me if the physics are not underpinning it then its mitigated to a massive degree.

As an example, DriveClub is arguably the best looking released driving title on the PS4, yet I would rather play PCars over it simply because the physics are the prime factor for me, to the degree that the atmosphere the lighting, etc. provides in PCars is good enough in that regard. However at the end of the day its personal preference in that regard and its why I am happy to 'put up' with the visuals in Seb Loeb Rally.
 
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Scaff
I wouldn't say that anyone has been snarky, simply having a different order of priorities is not being snarky, nor is discussing that difference.

I agree that it helps with the atmosphere (Donnington at Sunset in Pcars with the god rays as an example is great at that), but for me if the physics are not underpinning it then its mitigated to a massive degree.

As an example, DriveClub is arguably the best looking released driving title on the PS4, yet I would rather play PCars over it simply because the physics are the prime factor for me, to the degree that the atmosphere the lighting, etc. provides in PCars is good enough in that regard. However at the end of the day its personal preference in that regard and its why I am happy to 'put up' with the visuals in Seb Loeb Rally.
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Yeah, fair - maybe snarky was an overstatement. I take that back.

Also, agree with all of that, except the god rays in PCars, good god man, they are ugly as hell! :D
 
jm79
Yeah, fair - maybe snarky was an overstatement. I take that back.

Also, agree with all of that, except the god rays in PCars, good god man, they are ugly as hell! :D
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Ah I didn't say they were good looking, I said they added enough atmosphere and more importantly they do what they should, which is make driving into the sun as tricky as hell when it comes to picking out brake markers, etc.
 
Scaff
Ah I didn't say they were good looking, I said they added enough atmosphere and more importantly they do what they should, which is make driving into the sun as tricky as hell when it comes to picking out brake markers, etc.
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Ah OK, in that case, fair :)
 
Aussie_HSV
But when other games, direct competitor games, get a free pass, it seems fair to start asking questions.
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You have definitely not been in the Project CARS, Assetto Corsa or Forza forums, or you wouldn't be saying something like this. So you're making things up and you obviously didn't follow any of the links to the other subforums provided by others as well as the examples/quotes posted in this very thread. Proves @Johnnypenso 's point, doesn't it?
 
CLowndes888
That's exactly what I'm talking about. The difference really is obvious between these two images. After all, your game needs to be presentable...
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So do you believe that the image is representative of the difference between AC and GTS, or that AC isn't presentable?
 
I think this is something that PC players in particular are more tolerant of than console players. With a vast library of decent simulation games that stretch back for many years, some of them are simply not that pretty to look at any more. But they can still be fun.

As such, it's easy to learn what the bare minimums are for graphics in a racing game.

They should provide the necessary information to drive and should not be offensively ugly. For example, the original F1GP is basically unplayable these days because it's just awful to look at.

After that, anything is a bonus. If the graphics can look nicer or more realistic, that's great. If they can add atmosphere to the environment, that's even better.

I don't think many people complain about the graphics in AC simply because they are exactly what they were advertised to be. It's a game from a small indie studio that made no pretense that they were developing a stunning looking sim. It looks decent most of the time, and it seems to capture the motion of the cars rather well but that's about it. And this was obvious to anyone who was worried enough to look into it before release.

Gran Turismo on the other hand prides itself on being the best looking game around. A significant part of the gameplay is based around creating awesome screenshots, especially with the new Scapes mode. As such, this is absolutely a feature that should be scrutinised. If Polyphony are going to make a fuss about how awesome their new photomode is, then I would expect there to be discussion around the photos that look odd.
 
Imari
I think this is something that PC players in particular are more tolerant of than console players. With a vast library of decent simulation games that stretch back for many years, some of them are simply not that pretty to look at any more. But they can still be fun.

As such, it's easy to learn what the bare minimums are for graphics in a racing game.

They should provide the necessary information to drive and should not be offensively ugly. For example, the original F1GP is basically unplayable these days because it's just awful to look at.

After that, anything is a bonus. If the graphics can look nicer or more realistic, that's great. If they can add atmosphere to the environment, that's even better.

I don't think many people complain about the graphics in AC simply because they are exactly what they were advertised to be. It's a game from a small indie studio that made no pretense that they were developing a stunning looking sim. It looks decent most of the time, and it seems to capture the motion of the cars rather well but that's about it. And this was obvious to anyone who was worried enough to look into it before release.

Gran Turismo on the other hand prides itself on being the best looking game around. A significant part of the gameplay is based around creating awesome screenshots, especially with the new Scapes mode. As such, this is absolutely a feature that should be scrutinised. If Polyphony are going to make a fuss about how awesome their new photomode is, then I would expect there to be discussion around the photos that look odd.
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Yeah, this is exactly it. I'm just as happy to play AC with serviceable visuals because the handling and feel is so great, as I am to indulge in a bit of DC or GT, because the visuals are so awesome, you can forgive the other stuff.

Arguing that lighting is important in no way means that I think everything other than GT is crap.

It's more nuanced that that. Also, in general, the sheer choice for me nowadays, as a console owner, is incredible. From pure sim stuff to arcade racers, this has been the best console generation for me. And we haven't even had a Gran Turismo yet. Love it.
 
Imari
I think this is something that PC players in particular are more tolerant of than console players. With a vast library of decent simulation games that stretch back for many years, some of them are simply not that pretty to look at any more. But they can still be fun.

As such, it's easy to learn what the bare minimums are for graphics in a racing game.

They should provide the necessary information to drive and should not be offensively ugly. For example, the original F1GP is basically unplayable these days because it's just awful to look at.

After that, anything is a bonus. If the graphics can look nicer or more realistic, that's great. If they can add atmosphere to the environment, that's even better.

I don't think many people complain about the graphics in AC simply because they are exactly what they were advertised to be. It's a game from a small indie studio that made no pretense that they were developing a stunning looking sim. It looks decent most of the time, and it seems to capture the motion of the cars rather well but that's about it. And this was obvious to anyone who was worried enough to look into it before release.

Gran Turismo on the other hand prides itself on being the best looking game around. A significant part of the gameplay is based around creating awesome screenshots, especially with the new Scapes mode. As such, this is absolutely a feature that should be scrutinised. If Polyphony are going to make a fuss about how awesome their new photomode is, then I would expect there to be discussion around the photos that look odd.
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Its not just sims, Indie titles are just flat out more popular on pc and they dont have the graphics a lot of the time. A lot of us get to the point where graphics just dont matter and we search for someone with the content we want not the appearance. Granted though you are right, before AC there was rfactor, race07 and gtr2 which all ran on the same engine made back when some dictator pushed my family out of Kenya. Back on topic the paradigm shift that was AC was great, it was pretty much what we all wanted NFS Shift to be but failed at. Worst of all though is the early access fad which is currently blowing up on steam which means wee can get into alphas or betas and its so tempting but it rarely ends well as everything is a buggy mess, slowly those that bought into early access(everyone) got more used to seeing bugs with the promise they would be patched by final launch well assuming final launch ever happened. Most of the time we get burned out of the game before it even launched. What AC did best though is capture that "granturismo for pc" sort of thing from its steam page, the amount of steam reviews saying I was searching for a replacement for GT and then this happened, I connected my dfgt and I might be pregnant. Sadly anyone that wishes to follow in ACs steps(likely Reiza) will struggle now that Forza is coming as that GT replacement will be Forza instead of random racing game on steam.
 
Scaff
So do you believe that the image is representative of the difference between AC and GTS, or that AC isn't presentable?
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Regarding that image, I put it up because the only difference between the two is materials and lighting, not the detail of the object itself. A lot of the talk, with GT in particular, is about poly count and model detail - I thought it would be useful to highlight the amazing effect good lighting/materials has. It's maybe even the single most important thing...
 
TrevorPhilips
The physics/handling model of Assetto Corsa. The graphical detail of Gran Turismo. The car selection of Forza Motorsport and the general 'motorsporty' feeling I get from Project Cars would probably be my ideal game.

I would call it 'Gran Pro For Ass'
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I want all of the cars/track in all those games in the best quality possible ( accuracy and details ), with official brand name tires ( modeled with each respective tire data ) then I would call it " Car & Rubber "
 
Scaff
So do you believe that the image is representative of the difference between AC and GTS, or that AC isn't presentable?
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Not exactly, but GT is better presented that AC, yes. That's what I think.
 

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