Grip Bug Thread v2

[Voodoovaj]

Maybe is brake balance related?

I have played with brake balance and I am currently on ABS weak. It makes a difference. ABS weak has shortened my braking distance and it allows me to be up to 1 second faster over my own times. That said, it's only an improvement with the proper lines and the improvement is not consistent with what is being seen in videos with confirmed bugs.

 

[zzz_pt]

I appreciate you saying that i said every top 10 guy has a bug. I said it was fishy.

Fishy like what? Are you aware you're posting on a Grip Bug thread, implying top10 times are not legitimate?

It's just a stupid game not even close to realistic i use for mental training. I mean, no one down shifts blowing past the rev limiter, down shifts in the middle of a corner to pop the rear end out then upshift immediately after, yanks the wheel while braking and doing a 'understeer slide' into a corner and not over heating and destroying the tires, etc etc.

I agree. It's not the most realistic game. Maybe that's the reason you can't make the same times. Because you're expecting something else than what the game does. And on that respect, I agree that to be fast in GTS you have to adjust to its physics. However unrealistic they may be.

I just think its funny that going the same speed in the same car and slamming the brake pedal the same way, if i do it at the same point as replays I'm flying off the track. Oh well. Road Atlanta in 3 weeks and 5 weeks

Replays probably are off by a small margin. Also, on some replays you don't see the braking lights or the braking input bar at all or until much later. But you can see the speed going down. Again, if you have a replay of your best lap, feel free to share it.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Can I make a recommendation?

Since you are finding more issues, put everything that you find in the top post, so that when PDI tries to read it, they have all issues and links summarised in one easy to find post.

That's a good idea, maybe @GT_Alex74 could put the boost comparison in there too? Post #41 and #42 should have everything.

 

[GTFraker]

I appreciate you saying that i said every top 10 guy has a bug. I said it was fishy.

It's just a stupid game not even close to realistic i use for mental training. I mean, no one down shifts blowing past the rev limiter, down shifts in the middle of a corner to pop the rear end out then upshift immediately after, yanks the wheel while braking and doing a 'understeer slide' into a corner and not over heating and destroying the tires, etc etc.

I just think its funny that going the same speed in the same car and slamming the brake pedal the same way, if i do it at the same point as replays I'm flying off the track. Oh well. Road Atlanta in 3 weeks and 5 weeks

Dude, don't bother, people here would berate Lewis Hamilton and Vettel if the mentioned suspected something about the top 10 guys. Only those who belong to a certain frat can suggest a grip bug, the rest of us are salty because others are fast.

 

[zzz_pt]

Dude, don't bother, people here would berate Lewis Hamilton and Vettel if the mentioned suspected something about the top 10 guys. Only those who belong to a certain frat can suggest a grip bug, the rest of us are salty because others are fast.

No. It's more about evidence. If you suspect something, investigate and bring facts with you so everyone can analyse them, like the people who started this did.

Insinuations should be left out of this thread.

 

[JLBowler]

I've shared the track with a good portion of the fastest guys in North America going all the way back to GT5. Most of those guys are that fast and they have been that fast for a long time. You'll notice that I said shared the track. I am not in the same class as those guys anymore. There was a time that I could keep them in sight, but those days are gone for me. My point is that the names at and around the top of the list has been pretty consistent for a long while and I'm sure it's probably much the same in other regions. When a name pops in and is much faster than this established group, there are going to be questions. My first reaction would be something to the effect of asking, "where did this guy come from?" When watching replays shows something much different from the established fastest guys in the world, more questions are going to come up.

There is a group here that took it a step further to investigate these laps that appeared to come out of nowhere and they appear to have found something in the game that needs attention. Thank you to those that took / are taking the time to do this and bring it to PD's attention.

 

[GTFraker]

I've shared the track with a good portion of the fastest guys in North America going all the way back to GT5. Most of those guys are that fast and they have been that fast for a long time. You'll notice that I said shared the track. I am not in the same class as those guys anymore. There was a time that I could keep them in sight, but those days are gone for me. My point is that the names at and around the top of the list has been pretty consistent for a long while and I'm sure it's probably much the same in other regions. When a name pops in and is much faster than this established group, there are going to be questions. My first reaction would be something to the effect of asking, "where did this guy come from?" When watching replays shows something much different from the established fastest guys in the world, more questions are going to come up.

There is a group here that took it a step further to investigate these laps that appeared to come out of nowhere and they appear to have found something in the game that needs attention. Thank you to those that took / are taking the time to do this and bring it to PD's attention.

Exactly, the only reason this investigation started is because the established fast guys started having company, if there is a bug, it could be affecting anyone, regardless of how good they are.

 

[UGA95]

I dont know about bugs or whatever, but it always seems those guys setting top times in GT mode brake 50-100 meters later than i can and still make the corner. Also, they can floor it out of the corner yet i cant even do half throttle without lighting the tires up. Just seems fishy. Fwiw I've been gaming for 25 years and have 18 successful racing years in real life. I havent been able to simulate these guys in even one corner.

There's nothing fishy about the legitimate times being posted. They are achievable. The guys at the top of these leaderboards are extremely talented, and I'm not sure what your real life experience has to do with it.

As for what you said about braking, I don't buy the difference in braking distance of 50-100m that you claim. That is just astronomical. That's the length of a football field. If there is that big of a difference then there is something wrong on your end.

 

[zzz_pt]

Exactly, the only reason this investigation started is because the established fast guys started having company, if there is a bug, it could be affecting anyone, regardless of how good they are.

Yes. Because the fast guys were always alone in their own leaderboards...

 

[JLBowler]

Exactly, the only reason this investigation started is because the established fast guys started having company, if there is a bug, it could be affecting anyone, regardless of how good they are.

That's how most investigations get started. Someone notices something that is out of the ordinary and looks into it. I know for a fact that if I started setting top 10 times, I'd be trying to figure out what went wrong.

Now, if the new name(s) would have popped up in the top 10 and their replays resembled what a fast lap looks like, there probably wouldn't have been any further investigation done. I can't speak for those that did the work, but that sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Spurgy 777]

Exactly, the only reason this investigation started is because the established fast guys started having company, if there is a bug, it could be affecting anyone, regardless of how good they are.

It's amazing how you think you know how or why this investigation started, as to know that you would have to have access to some quite private conversations. Without going into a whole lot of detail the first times to be investigated were done by someone in a completely different region on completely different leaderboards to the person looking into it. They were also a known, "established" fast driver from GT6 and at the time a teammate, so again you have proven that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[kilesa4568]

I've just had a message off MastrGT after I sent him this thread link:

Yes, I have read it. It is still a bit disorganised, so I didn't see all of the possible new bugs, but I found the actual/indicated speed bug described. It would help if all concerns were listed/ linked in the top post, so that PDI can find them all more quickly. Make it as easy as possible for them to find the issue and details.

 

[Spurgy 777]

I've just had a message off MastrGT after I sent him this thread link:

Do you think separating out the "what we know" section into bullet pointed known effects under "what is the bug" and leaving the "what we know" section for everything related to things we've tried to fix it and things we know probably aren't causes, would improve the OP? Maybe @Tidgney can help out with a side by side comparison of a bugged lap and legit lap as well to more clearly see the differences as switching between two separate videos makes it harder to see.

 

[kilesa4568]

I mentioned the boost bug to him so that should get a bullet point. It may even be one of the ingredients of the grip bug and would give PD an idea of where to look for it.

A side by side video would be perfect too.

 

[Nando deBem]

I still think it should be tested in an environment with limited variables.
BlueMoon Bay, inside line, accelerate...
Don’t brake, don’t release the gas pedal...
Turn in trying to keep in the inside line.
You should see different areas of the outside wall getting hit.

 

[vvise]

I'm pretty disappointed in how poorly this bug is being legitimately tested in this thread. There are some very easy ways to confirm if there is a bug or if it's just speculation (a screenshot of when a brake is pressed during a race has so much room for variance it's laughable to rely on it).

If someone suspects they have the bug please do the following. Get a car and from a start line record a video of 10 or so 0-60 starts and stops. From a full stop hit 100% throttle, when reaching 60 switch to 100% brake. Record time and distance. take an average of all 10 results to account for reaction time and other small variances.

Switch to a new account, do the exact same thing, same car, same course, same tires, same settings. Compare the results.

This will for sure confirm or deny the existence of a bug. Currently it's just speculation.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Boost tests added to OP. @kilesa4568 tell me if you think that's fine like this.

I'm pretty disappointed in how poorly this bug is being legitimately tested in this thread. There are some very easy ways to confirm if there is a bug or if it's just speculation (a screenshot of when a brake is pressed during a race has so much room for variance it's laughable to rely on it).

If someone suspects they have the bug please do the following. Get a car and from a start line record a video of 10 or so 0-60 starts and stops. From a full stop hit 100% throttle, when reaching 60 switch to 100% brake. Record time and distance. take an average of all 10 results to account for reaction time and other small variances.

Switch to a new account, do the exact same thing, same car, same course, same tires, same settings. Compare the results.

This will for sure confirm or deny the existence of a bug. Currently it's just speculation.

There are much more parameters in line than just straight line stopping power in there. The braking distances with the bug are not only a matter of braking power, but a combination of several parameters such as ability to turn while braking without losing efficiency or stability. Plus, videos and many other things are available, we're not just relying on a single screenshot there, and someone actually made a lot of tests on two accounts and found a great similarity with bugged physics and boost physics. There's no speculation there, a great amount of time has been spent into this already, and by the time the first version of this thread was created, we had enough proofs already to affirm there was a problem.

 

[zzz_pt]

I'm pretty disappointed in how poorly this bug is being legitimately tested in this thread. There are some very easy ways to confirm if there is a bug or if it's just speculation (a screenshot of when a brake is pressed during a race has so much room for variance it's laughable to rely on it).

If someone suspects they have the bug please do the following. Get a car and from a start line record a video of 10 or so 0-60 starts and stops. From a full stop hit 100% throttle, when reaching 60 switch to 100% brake. Record time and distance. take an average of all 10 results to account for reaction time and other small variances.

Switch to a new account, do the exact same thing, same car, same course, same tires, same settings. Compare the results.

This will for sure confirm or deny the existence of a bug. Currently it's just speculation.

It's not speculation. @RA1784 confirmed the bug, removed it from his account (starting from scratch) and his pace is nowhere near what it was. I was racing and practicing with him both before and after this process. Also, @Dan Carmo has confirmed his main account is affected.

For those tests you suggest being possible, the people with this bug on their account need to be cooperative. You can't just find 10 replays of 0-60-0 of everyone and check it they have the issue or not. Everything you see in this thread was made with public top10 laps analysis and the cooperation of @RA1784. He made enough tests to confirm the grip bug.

 

[vvise]

It's not speculation. @RA1784 confirmed the bug, removed it from his account (starting from scratch) and his pace is nowhere near what it was.

I mean no disrespect to the work being put in here to figure out what's happening.

If the goal is to get Polyphony Digital to address and fix an issue it would go a long way to have some solid evidence in a controlled test.

Race pace over multiple laps can vary for many reasons. I'm not discrediting the work put in, I just think (as a developer myself) a controlled test would illustrate the issue clearly to the developers at PD.

Thanks for your hard work in bringing this to light.

 

[zzz_pt]

I mean no disrespect to the work being put in here to figure out what's happening.

If the goal is to get Polyphony Digital to address and fix an issue it would go a long way to have some solid evidence in a controlled test.

Race pace over multiple laps can vary for many reasons. I'm not discrediting the work put in, I just think (as a developer myself) a controlled test would illustrate the issue clearly to the developers at PD.

Thanks for your hard work in bringing this to light.

Maybe the only person who could do that right now is @Dan Carmo since he's the only person who still has a bugged account AND is willing to help.

I'll see if I can talk to him on WhatsApp and ask him if he can make those tests and record/share the info here.

 

[polysmut]

You have enough in the OP already for PDI to see that there's something in the software that needs addressing. Adding anything that you learn through proper investigation may be useful to them or not, we don't know. It will still be interesting information anyway for those players here interested in working it all out.

Speculation without the proper testing helps nobody. The posts earlier asking for replays via PM should be heeded.

 

[RA1784]

Is it just me or is it strange that customers who paid money to have fun on a product are doing the work for the developers? Its been a week since this massive issue is public and still no reaction. All this has a huge potential to take the fun out of the whole game. Hope PD gets this sorted soon...

EDIT: All the work has been worth it. One day after this comment i got a very promising message. Further infos will follow.

 

[lightningd]

I concede to you pro gamers. Have fun with your bugs. PD cant even map the pedals correctly. But what do i know.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/brake-balance.372919/

Thank you sir.

Is it just me or is it strange that customers who paid money to have fun on a product are doing the work for the developers? Its been a week since this massive issue is public and still no reaction. All this has a huge potential to take the fun out of the whole game. Hope PD gets this sorted soon...

Nothing new. Game developers in the 80s had testers looking for every bug possible. It was a job and kids everywhere wanted one. Then the internet and 'updates' happened. Developers found out it's cheaper to have players test than have to pay testers. You're working for free. At least they arent taxing you.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I fear that due to the isolation of such cases PD won't see the need to investigate further, thus letting the issue continue. Unless some hard evidence is found to suggest that the bug indeed has a source, nothing will change.

 

[polysmut]

I fear that due to the isolation of such cases PD won't see the need to investigate further, thus letting the issue continue. Unless some hard evidence is found to suggest that the bug indeed has a source, nothing will change.

I expect they're working on it already. The FIA collaboration would be as much motivation as any.

 

[sabamber]

I've noticed my quali replays are now automatically uploaded, I'm definitely not top10, started last night. Is that normal?

Forgive my naivety but has anyone explored if it's an LSD programming issue?
I'm only going off my real world experience (I understand sims are different) owning many different cars with/without an LSD and the increase in grip is obvious with the slippy diff ensuring the driven wheels stay planted:

braking, chucking into corners and powering out of corners all get much more predictable and noticibly quicker when using a slippy diff in particular powerful FWD cars (which would otherwise understeer/spin away all their power on throttle without the diff) just power round the corner like it's on rails.

 

[TT92]

I have read every post on this topic here and thought it was time I said something.

What this sounds like to me is the exact oposite of what we used get on GT6 in online lobbies - "The Slipery Track Bug". When I previously (years ago litterally) discussed it here it was poo pooed by many and I was catergorically told it was my imagination so i stopped.

The "Slippery Track Bug - STB" could affect anywhere from 1 person to everyone present in the lobby. A close collegue and and I our lap times were nearly identical so it was sort of easy to spot when it occured and we always used Comfort or Sport tyres so it was easier to notice anyway.

Having said this the symptoms were lap times would drop 1-2.5 secs a lap (depending on track length) loss of grip entering and exiting corners especially increased braking distances.

The way to solve it then was to reset the track (change to a different location and then back) but not always and sometimes it would plague only one player all night regardless. When this happened the person affected would use 1 grade of tyre softer and then hey presto all fixed (not really but we could race together again).

like I said, this new bug here reminds me of this old one but reversed. PD never admitted to this STB and so never adressed the issue (that I know of). It was even dismissed here by many as well and of course the person affected never really knew that he had it and just thought he was slower than everyone else.

Also I should not need to remind everyone GT6 online was plagued with bugs. The not being able to see other players on track, sound drop outs (that I also get with GT Sport!) etc, etc

It would seem to me in PD's efforts to iron out all these previous bugs they have over compensated somehow with GTS.

I have also noticed much slower players exhibiting extrordinary levels of grip and also noticed they have no idea how to drive either ;-) I would venture to say that this issue is far more widespread than anyone actually realises. You have identified a few people at the top end that exhibit this bug but the slower the driver the harder it will be to prove.

My $0.02 worth

 

[UGA95]

I concede to you pro gamers. Have fun with your bugs. PD cant even map the pedals correctly. But what do i know

With all due respect, you need to get off your high horse. Just because you've been gaming for a long time and have real racing experience doesnt mean you're smarter than everyone else in this thread and we're just a bunch of dumb gamers that don't know what we're talking about, which is the vibe you're puting off. No one in this thread ever said anything about this game being the most realistic representation of real life.

You started off by claiming that everybody in the top 10 on the leaderboards is fishy just because you're incapable of replicating their times, which is just an insult to those people who take the time everyday to practice and get on those leaderboards. You cite your many years of "real racing" as your validation for making such a claim, and gave us your upcoming schedule at Road Atlanta. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything unless you're implying that because you have real experience and you can't make the leaderboards you think the people faster than you without real experience are suspicious. Which is just ridiculous. GT Academy has proven capable of taking some of these top drivers and turning them into drivers capable of racing competitively in real life. There is a lot of extremely talented people on these leaderboards and you seem to not realize that.

Secondly, you stated the reason you can't replicate their laps is because your braking distance is off by 50-100m compared to the top people on the leaderboards, and you can't simulate even one of their corners. I just find that number you gave almost impossible to believe, and I will continue to believe that until you provide a clip to prove me wrong. You are either lying, or there is something drastically wrong with your game, or you need more practice, simple as that. And I hate to tell ya, but there's only a handful of people right now on these leaderboards that have this bug. Almost all of these laps you're calling fishy and incapable of replicating are 100% legit and a result of practice and skill.

Lastly, if this is just a "stupid game" as you put it, then why do you play it?

 

[kilesa4568]

Boost tests added to OP. @kilesa4568 tell me if you think that's fine like this.

Spot on.👍

With how exaggerated the grip is in the videos, it reminds me a lot of an old QM on the HSR I did that had SRF on and strong boost. I started a race one lap down and broke my own lap record by 6 seconds as the field were so far in front. The car was on rails with crazy grip. Just food for thought.

I've tried messing with driver settings and switching between 3 accounts but I couldn't replicate the reset on any of them. Nor the grip. I'll keep trying.

 

[Shottah072]

I appreciate you saying that i said every top 10 guy has a bug. I said it was fishy.

It's just a stupid game not even close to realistic i use for mental training. I mean, no one down shifts blowing past the rev limiter, down shifts in the middle of a corner to pop the rear end out then upshift immediately after, yanks the wheel while braking and doing a 'understeer slide' into a corner and not over heating and destroying the tires, etc etc.

I just think its funny that going the same speed in the same car and slamming the brake pedal the same way, if i do it at the same point as replays I'm flying off the track. Oh well. Road Atlanta in 3 weeks and 5 weeks

LOL you really think you should be faster then some alien sim racers because you have some real life experience ? It doesnt work like that. I can beat Rubens Barrichello in a virtual single seater on iRacing but put both of us in a real single seater and he will no doubt destroy me. Its two completely different things.