Grip Bug Thread v2

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Did we ever get a confirmation that someone actually contacted PD about this? Apart from reporting players their seem to be no way you can get in contact with anyone.

Jordan confirmed that MastrGT has an inside line to PD when I tried to get the SRF bug fixed in GT6 so I'm confident they now know about it. I believe @Tassie_tiger knows him well and can confirm it too.

This is his reply from my PM:

Ok, I've passed this link on to PDI.

Thanks!

MasterGT

...and this is his reply from the Playstation forum thread:

As you know, PDI is very tightlipped about things. I made sure they knew about the issue, so, as a guess, we will probably have to wait until the next update to get it resolved.

I got a reply (off MastrGT) pretty quickly saying that the bug I reported a couple of years or so ago wouldn't be fixed as it was too late in the game's life cycle. Annoying but understandable.

This grip bug is game breaking so early in this game's life so I'm sure they'll find and fix it. It'll make competitive racing a bit of a joke until they do.
 
More corner speed alone wouldn't explain what we see, no. Plus people with the bug don't maintain their mph advantage that they get out of corners and are usually doing exactly the same by the end of the straight.

Just so I understand, are you saying that the afflicted are slowing on the straights, thereby being "exactly the same", or, are you saying that there is simply no straight line boost? I am not saying there is a boost, only that the exit speed will naturally allow you to be further ahead (bug or no bug).
 
Just so I understand, are you saying that the afflicted are slowing on the straights, thereby being "exactly the same", or, are you saying that there is simply no straight line boost? I am not saying there is a boost, only that the exit speed will naturally allow you to be further ahead (bug or no bug).

I’m saying there isn't any extra straight line speed, not even from extra speed gained out of the corners, any advantage gained in exit speed is lost usually within 200ft or so and they are back to doing the speed you would be doing if you had a normal exit which makes no sense.

However, @zzz_pt and I were testing a theory that could explain the bug to some extent, I will post details of it later after a bit more testing with RA, but we did get some interesting results.
 
Good afternoon guys

I'm TRL_SENNNA and I'm here to tell you that there's really a problem in my account and I'm willing to help solve the problem WhatsApp +5531992621474
Could you do a hot lap around Nurb in the TT Cup? Today's FIA.
 
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As such, it is asked you don't mention directly the name or PSN id of anyone you suspect of having the bug in this topic; instead, you should rather contact someone who was involved in the investigations privately so that can be reviewed by people knowing precisely what to look for - I think the best is that you send me a private message here or on PSN (GT-Alex74), so I can either have a look on it or forward it to a competent person.
I didn't think this was too complex or difficult to follow, but I see we have videos of someone that someone else is querying, and their name...

And by "have" I mean "had".
 
Seriously, keep the naming out of it. For Christ’s sakes, we know there’s a problem, calling out people you think have it isn’t doing any good at this point anyways. We’ve got people who confirmed something’s wrong with their accounts and they’re cooperating. You’re doing literally nothing to help at this point by acting on baseless suspicions.
 
I didn't think this was too complex or difficult to follow, but I see we have videos of someone that someone else is querying, and their name...

And by "have" I mean "had".

We’ve maybe not always seen eye to eye, but great work on this:tup:
 
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I’m saying there isn't any extra straight line speed, not even from extra speed gained out of the corners, any advantage gained in exit speed is lost usually within 200ft or so and they are back to doing the speed you would be doing if you had a normal exit which makes no sense.

Super wierd
 
So I decided to test the effects boost has on the car and work out how exactly it makes you quicker to compare to how cars handle with bugged physics. For this @zzz_pt and @RA1784 helped me out, zzz_pt for actually testing the boost (need a car in front) and RA for comparing the handling with boost and RH tyres and the handling with RSS without boost to the handling of the car when his physics were bugged.

With zzz_pt we were using Gr.4 BoP Meganes at Bathurst with RHs and with RA we had maxed out Gr.3 Porsches at Dragon Trail.

The effects of boost (on weak);
  • Much better traction, can put the throttle down much earlier and your car sort of gets dragged around the corner. (similar to bugged laps)
  • Despite the better exits there was no noticeable gain in straight line speed according to the speedo however even though we were doing the same speed I was still gaining a massive amount on the straights in boost. I calculated that I was actually averaging 149mph on one of the straights in boost when my speedo average was 141mph. (bugged laps don't see any gain in straight line speed even with better exits as mentioned before, just like boost, but bugged laps don't have mysterious time gain even when doing the same speed like with boost)
  • No significant gain under braking reviewing my laps, maybe a slight improvement braking a bit later and slowing to a slower speed but I wouldn't say as noticeable as with the bugged laps. Not sure if @zzz_pt agrees. This could be explained by the actual speed being higher than what the speedo says when under boost, so you're actually approaching the corner faster and braking at a similar point to without boost.
  • No noticeable gain in cornering speed, but we weren't driving as well with boost as without and again this might be explained by the speedo speed being less than actual.
  • And of course a massive improvement on lap time, nearly 10 seconds, which is much more than the time gained with the bug (around 3 seconds).
@RA1784's verdict was that the handling of the Porsche when his game was bugged was close to how it felt whilst boosted and on RH tyres as opposed to when he was driving without boost and on RSS tyres.

So if you were to give a car the handling characteristics only of boost and none of magical time gain stuff, i.e. speedo speed = actual, then the resulting effect could quite possibly make your car handle in a very similar way to as if it was bugged. Giving the driver unrealistic traction, not increasing their straight line speed even with significantly improved exit speeds, and potentially increasing their cornering speed and allowing them to brake later when the speedo is reading the correct speed and they aren't approaching corners faster than usual. As for the resultant lap times, it would obviously be less than 10 seconds without magic time gained down the straights, but it's difficult to know exactly how much handling characteristics alone are worth.

This doesn't really answer many questions but it is interesting to see the similarities between the effects of boost and the bugged physics so could offer some insight into the cause of the extra grip. It still doesn't explain how boost would remotely effect sport mode practice, or why @RA1784's settings reset all the time, but hopefully this might be useful in some way.

EDIT: Forgot to mention we also proved that boost is really bugged anyway in custom lobbies. Not only does it work in practice somehow and not just in races, even after I had switched it off, the first timed lap would have boost if no one had left the pits later than you (zzz_pt joined the track after me and my grip immediately got worse) but even after he had left the lobby and rejoined he still was boosted for his first timed lap.
 
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  • Despite the better exits there was no noticeable gain in straight line speed according to the speedo however even though we were doing the same speed I was still gaining a massive amount on the straights in boost. I calculated that I was actually averaging 149mph on one of the straights in boost when my speedo average was 141mph. (bugged laps don't see any gain in straight line speed even with better exits as mentioned before, just like boost, but bugged laps don't have mysterious time gain even when doing the same speed like with boost)

The gain in straight line speed is not noticeable either on the speedometer during gameplay or during replays. I found out that only when watching from outside of the track (binoculars icon) I could actually see the correct speed you were going. For reference, on that exact point we were both doing around 243/244 kmh (150mph) when we raced the Corvettes and Lambos, but when you did the fastest lap in Practice, you were going at 264 kmh (164 mph). If you see the first part of the video, you can clearly see the speeds you were going are not the same you were seeing in your speedometer, right?

164mph.png

(here I'm watching you drive as an observer from the lobby)

Now, when I drive though there, with boost, I only reach 244 km/h - link.

So, it looks like we're doing the same speed if we look at our speedometer while driving in real time and also if we look into the replay. But the car is, in fact, going faster and it's only possible to see the correct speed if watching from the lobby.


  • No significant gain under braking reviewing my laps, maybe a slight improvement braking a bit later and slowing to a slower speed but I wouldn't say as noticeable as with the bugged laps. Not sure if @zzz_pt agrees. This could be explained by the actual speed being higher than what the speedo says when under boost, so you're actually approaching the corner faster and braking at a similar point to without boost.

I agree with this 100%. We couldn't notice any later braking with boost because we were, despite what the speedometer indicated, going way much faster when we reached a braking zone. Had we only gotten the grip out of the corners and not the top end speed, we could probably brake 50m later.

@Spurgy 777 we went looking for 1 bug and we found another 2. :D Great.
 
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@zzz_pt I hadn't thought to check that, good spot. I agree with everything you've said there and it basically gets rid of the differences between how the car seems to handle bugged and with boost.
@Spurgy 777 we went looking for 1 bug and we found another 2. :D Great.

If by 2 you mean that 1 is the speed you see isn't your actual speed, I think this is intentional for some reason as I'm fairly certain this is how boost has always worked, even on previous GT games.
 
@zzz_pt I hadn't thought to check that, good spot. I agree with everything you've said there and it basically gets rid of the differences between how the car seems to handle bugged and with boost.

Yep. It looks like the grip bug gives the car the boost grip but not the boost speed increase. This would make possible the late brake and better corner exit.

If by 2 you mean that 1 is the speed you see isn't your actual speed, I think this is intentional for some reason as I'm fairly certain this is how boost has always worked, even on previous GT games.

Then it shouldn't appear as a higher speed to the people watching from the outside maybe. PD will be PD. The other bug was the one you mentioned, when I left the lobby and came back in, you immediately got the boost as I joined the pit.
 
Yep. It looks like the grip bug gives the car the boost grip but not the boost speed increase. This would make possible the late brake and better corner exit.



Then it shouldn't appear as a higher speed to the people watching from the outside maybe. PD will be PD. The other bug was the one you mentioned, when I left the lobby and came back in, you immediately got the boost as I joined the pit.

Might also be worth doing the same tests when boost is strong at some point to see how much it magnifies the effect.
 
How the plot thickens...

Is there a simple way, aside from setting up an alternative account, to test whether one has this bug? I thought in the prior thread someone suggested a simple brake test to determine if one can replicate the braking point that of RA1784.

Anyways, great work guys on digging deeper and the new discoveries.
 
How the plot thickens...

Is there a simple way, aside from setting up an alternative account, to test whether one has this bug? I thought in the prior thread someone suggested a simple brake test to determine if one can replicate the braking point that of RA1784.

Anyways, great work guys on digging deeper and the new discoveries.

Well assuming that everyone with the bug has the same issues RA had with their settings resetting all the time and not saving, that would be a good indicator. But we haven't had anyone else with the bug confirm that yet.

The brake test should work to an extent as well although it's hard to judge if you're actually braking at the same point as in the pictures.
 
Might also be worth doing the same tests when boost is strong at some point to see how much it magnifies the effect.

Sure. ;)

How the plot thickens...

Is there a simple way, aside from setting up an alternative account, to test whether one has this bug? I thought in the prior thread someone suggested a simple brake test to determine if one can replicate the braking point that of RA1784.

Anyways, great work guys on digging deeper and the new discoveries.

I honestly think it's easier and faster to make a new account.

To test the RA's braking point you'd need:
- @MINKIHL 's setup for the 911 RSR (I think @RA1784 was using the Dragon Trail setup). I don't know if the setup is up to date.
- Setup the lobby exactly the same way as it was
- Soft tires and ABS only
- Maybe the same setup / wheel + pedals

If you make a new account you'll be comparing yourself to yourself.
 
How the plot thickens...

Is there a simple way, aside from setting up an alternative account, to test whether one has this bug? I thought in the prior thread someone suggested a simple brake test to determine if one can replicate the braking point that of RA1784.

Anyways, great work guys on digging deeper and the new discoveries.

It is a little time consuming to do the 2nd account. I did it over the weekend, just to be sure. Just friend yourself and run a circuit experience or 2. I ran 2 and my times were well within the margin of error. I figured anything with a difference of less than half a sec should mean you are ok.
 
Wow, so my first idea was actually not far from the truth...

Great job guys, you rock ! One more thing that might be worth experimenting would be to have TRL_SENNNA ( @Dan Carmo ) test if boost actually changes his physics aside straight line speed on his bugged account.
 
I dont know about bugs or whatever, but it always seems those guys setting top times in GT mode brake 50-100 meters later than i can and still make the corner. Also, they can floor it out of the corner yet i cant even do half throttle without lighting the tires up. Just seems fishy. Fwiw I've been gaming for 25 years and have 18 successful racing years in real life. I havent been able to simulate these guys in even one corner.
 
I dont know about bugs or whatever, but it always seems those guys setting top times in GT mode brake 50-100 meters later than i can and still make the corner. Also, they can floor it out of the corner yet i cant even do half throttle without lighting the tires up. Just seems fishy. Fwiw I've been gaming for 25 years and have 18 successful racing years in real life. I havent been able to simulate these guys in even one corner.

I set top 10 times and I was with RA1784 when I first noticed this bug. There's no way in hell I'm braking as late as he could. Most top10 people brake, turn and accelerate on the limit that the car and track allows. Also, if you compare the videos shared in the OP you can clearly see the cars behaving in a completely different way than the usual cars in the top10.

Having 25 years of practice doesn't really make for a good argument. Time doesn't make everyone an alien.

If you want you can share a replay of your best lap and I don't mind taking a look into it. But if you'll just flat out say every top10 driver has a bug, well, that's just ridiculous. Would be a great coincidence that the usual aliens (lots of whom top the leaderboards in other sims/games) would be the lucky ones to have a bug that makes them (even) faster.
 
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I dont know about bugs or whatever, but it always seems those guys setting top times in GT mode brake 50-100 meters later than i can and still make the corner. Also, they can floor it out of the corner yet i cant even do half throttle without lighting the tires up. Just seems fishy. Fwiw I've been gaming for 25 years and have 18 successful racing years in real life. I havent been able to simulate these guys in even one corner.

We can safely say that there is nothing wrong with the top driver times other than the ones pointed out. In fact the guys investigating this (me included) are the ones doing those times and the bugged laps brake 25-50m later than we do. So unless you have a bug that gives you less grip, which we have no evidence exists, then it is just down to you. If you want us to have a look at your lap though to see if there is anything unusual feel free PM us a link to a shared replay and we’ll take a look. 👍
 
I dont know about bugs or whatever, but it always seems those guys setting top times in GT mode brake 50-100 meters later than i can and still make the corner. Also, they can floor it out of the corner yet i cant even do half throttle without lighting the tires up. Just seems fishy. Fwiw I've been gaming for 25 years and have 18 successful racing years in real life. I havent been able to simulate these guys in even one corner.

Maybe is brake balance related?

Having 25 years of practice doesn't really make for a good argument. Time doesn't make everyone an alien.

It just shows he’s an experienced driver.
He’s not saying he won the F1 championship. Maybe he’s a good candidate to test the “lower grip” hypothesis.
 
I set top 10 times and I was with RA1784 when I first noticed this bug. There's no way in hell I'm braking as late as he could. Most top10 people brake, turn and accelerate on the limit that the car and track allows. Also, if you compare the videos shared in the OP you can clearly see the cars behaving in a completely different way than the usual cars in the top10.

Having 25 years of practice doesn't really make for a good argument. Time doesn't make everyone an alien.

If you want you can share a replay of your best lap and I don't mind taking a look into it. But if you'll just flat out say every top10 driver has a bug, well, that's just ridiculous.

I appreciate you saying that i said every top 10 guy has a bug. I said it was fishy.

It's just a stupid game not even close to realistic i use for mental training. I mean, no one down shifts blowing past the rev limiter, down shifts in the middle of a corner to pop the rear end out then upshift immediately after, yanks the wheel while braking and doing a 'understeer slide' into a corner and not over heating and destroying the tires, etc etc.

I just think its funny that going the same speed in the same car and slamming the brake pedal the same way, if i do it at the same point as replays I'm flying off the track. Oh well. Road Atlanta in 3 weeks and 5 weeks :)
 
Maybe is brake balance related?

Maybe? I've played with it but havent found any real trend. One thing that makes bmws quick is they have a lot of rear bias factory. It's a huge advantage on track. Is there some thread on brake bias for GT somewhere?
 
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