GT producer - Damage still the same.

[sinbad]

If the damage was very spectacular it would be like a red rag to a bull. There are people who like to smash cars off the road, and it would probably give these people more lols if the cars crumpled up and bits flew off.

 

[glassjaw]

I love the discussion on "Kaz's vision" like he's a cult leader or something. It's a video game, calm down people.

 

[Eager Snake]

I have always played GT5 with heavy damage, and to be honest, I have always raced alone at the end.
Generally, my father-in-law, some friends and I gathered on saturdays to make some laps on the Ring, and we, again, always raced with heavy damage, and you NEED to be careful, plain and simple.
The thing that they are lacking the most, I think, is the visual aspect of the damage. Of course, the detail of the damage, mechanically speaking, is not the best, but at least is there.
I hear all the time people getting frustrated about it, but in my experience they don't usually play with the damage on, so, it's kind of contradictory sometimes.
I would love to see a proper damage system. They need it.

In fact, the first time I played GT5, in one of the License test, something really... weird occured. I hit a Civic in the back, and I saw, amazingly surprised, a little and beautiful bump...
...and I've never saw anything like that on the game anymore.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If the damage was very spectacular it would be like a red rag to a bull. There are people who like to smash cars off the road, and it would probably give these people more lols if the cars crumpled up and bits flew off.

Yes that is with anything in society, people buy coke just to put a mentos in it and see it blow up like old faithful. Does that mean everyone that goes to get a coke is doing it? No, just the people who are bored and nothing better to do or wanting to experiment; while the vast majority are going to do with it as intended. Same goes for GT or any other game that enables such actions, if someone wants to go online and deceive a group only to drive the wrong way before they are kicked...they're going to do it. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive for something just because a few people use it for unintended reasons. There are plenty of games once again with great damage simulators, yet you don't see the majority of players doing Mario Kart-esque smash em and crash ems.

 

[CoolColJ]

The damage in GT5 is OK, after a lot of pounding, so if they increase the sensitivity and magnitude, I'm fine with it

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

I made a quick video talking about the recent GT6 Damage news and showing what some GT5 damage looked like ... if anyone is interested.

 

[Imari]

If nothing else, I hope they fix the damage sounds. If it sounds like kicking a half empty bucket of water again every time I clip something, I will go postal. For some irrational reason, I found that to be the MOST annoying thing in GT5.

 

[J-KiLLA24]

If GT6's damage modeling looks like this for all cars or mostly all, then I won't have a problem whatsoever.

If nothing else, I hope they fix the damage sounds. If it sounds like kicking a half empty bucket of water again every time I clip something, I will go postal. For some irrational reason, I found that to be the MOST annoying thing in GT5.

Haha

 

[TokoTurismo]

If GT6's damage modeling looks like this for all cars or mostly all, then I won't have a problem whatsoever.

Oh gosh yes! O_O

 

[PAPPACLART]

I am not too fussed about the damage being the same, though I would prefer the collision physics to have a total revamp as they are very poor and unrealistic.

 

[Conquerer]

If GT6's damage modeling looks like this for all cars or mostly all, then I won't have a problem whatsoever.





Haha

See, that's actually a semi-respectable damage model but it takes so long to get there -- that's a big part of the problem. It shouldn't take too much to damage the car that badly. Just one big front end collision should completely wreck the front, not just put a scratch on the hood.

 

[lintels123]

Like its been said here before; if they kept the damage system they have now but just increase the sensitivity, that'd be great.

Edit: not sure if I used proper punctuation haha

 

[J-KiLLA24]

See, that's actually a semi-respectable damage model but it takes so long to get there -- that's a big part of the problem. It shouldn't take too much to damage the car that badly. Just one big front end collision should completely wreck the front, not just put a scratch on the hood.

I agree. And I also agree with PAPPACLART about the collision physics.

 

[maxpontiac]

Sales figures alone do not make a company profitable or healthy.

Whatever reasons you can up with to justify your statement, one thing should be clear. Having extremely high sales numbers sure beats having low ones.

Utter nonsense, efficient working practice doesn't always mean overworking employees (and PD already does this by its own admission). Often its simply a better way of working that allows people to do more work in less time and can actually be beneficial to both sides, so please don't judge all efficiency programmes by your own experience.

Spoken like someone from middle management. Oh I am sure some great programs have existed out there, but I have learned over the past decades that employees are usually the ones forced to adjust to efficiency guidelines.

 

[sems4arsenal]

See, that's actually a semi-respectable damage model but it takes so long to get there -- that's a big part of the problem. It shouldn't take too much to damage the car that badly. Just one big front end collision should completely wreck the front, not just put a scratch on the hood.

Agreed but not all cars can be damaged that much,certainly not standard cars which is another reason standards should be scraped.

 

[HAL20XX]

Whatever reasons you can up with to justify your statement, one thing should be clear. Having extremely high sales numbers sure beats having low ones.

Net profit since sales figures only tell you how much money you brought in and not how much you spent.

High/low sales numbers are irrelevant without knowing expenses.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Yes, and GT6 may become the biggest seller of the franchise. I can remember many people here predicting that GT5 would never reach 10 million copies sold and two years later...

If GT6 does become the best-seller of the franchise (and that is a frankly massive if), the only way it would is by a re-release on PS4, using the same GT6 name. Combining the sales totals of both games just may, may topple GT3. Of course, then one could argue it's not the same game...

If you notice (I have) the people who complain here about GT5 are pretty much the same individuals saying the same thing. Occasionally, you will have someone change their name, but the message stays the same.

And those who find excuses for anything negative about the game tend to be the same ones as well. See, it can work both ways.

All depends how you look at it. Casuals pick the game up, enjoy it, and move to the next big AAA title. The hardcore fans buy the game and play it too, but some decide to come to forums and discuss all the pros and cons of a title. Something to consider, both the casual and hardcore pay with the same money so who does Sony and PDI favor?

I think the theory is that a hardcore player, who enjoys the game, is likely to be a free advertisement for it. The same could be true of casuals of course, but I know I'd trust a friend's opinion on a game if it were a genre he's very familiar with over one he just dabbles with. Though, that's just my theory relating to that; let's be real, PD is a company like any other, I doubt they're too concerned over whose money it is, so long as its a sale.

Increasing efficiency usually means over-working the employees. See, I was a part of Pepsi Co. (with Frito Lay and PBG) for several years and I have seen and experienced these corporate efficiency "improvements".

In the realm of video game design, and modelling in particular, increasing efficiency can mean something a fair bit different than in other industries.

I can see the entire Standard car issue with Gran Turismo as quite the efficient and innovative solution. Use PS2 assets to get your PS3 version of your game a high quantity car list all the while saving time and money. Does it annoy some folks? Well according to the poll here in the GT6 forum, only 110 people are bothered this.

...and slightly less than that number actually like them.

Wait, did you just say "high quality"?



If recycling outdated assets, that are quite literally the lowest quality car models in the genre (in this generation) at this point, is "innovative", then I really hope the rest of the industry doesn't catch on to it.

Whatever reasons you can up with to justify your statement, one thing should be clear. Having extremely high sales numbers sure beats having low ones.

No, having a number of sales vastly higher than your break-even point is better than not. Especially considering GT5 has had a bargain price tag tied to it for a long time now.

I'm not saying GT5 didn't break even - I'm sure it did - but the numbers alone tell only a portion of the story.

 

[maxpontiac]

If GT6 does become the best-seller of the franchise (and that is a frankly massive if), the only way it would is by a re-release on PS4, using the same GT6 name. Combining the sales totals of both games just may, may topple GT3. Of course, then one could argue it's not the same game...

One could argue that, but alas, I expect PDI to combine the sales of both the PS3 and PS4. Even if it was just infuriate some.

And those who find excuses for anything negative about the game tend to be the same ones as well. See, it can work both ways.

Well heck Slip, someone has to be the yin to the yang, wouldn't you agree? The wheels of the message board bus go round and round.

I think the theory is that a hardcore player, who enjoys the game, is likely to be a free advertisement for it. The same could be true of casuals of course, but I know I'd trust a friend's opinion on a game if it were a genre he's very familiar with over one he just dabbles with. Though, that's just my theory relating to that; let's be real, PD is a company like any other, I doubt they're too concerned over whose money it is, so long as its a sale.

That is a possibility, but lets be honest here. PDI has seen GT5 become the 3rd highest selling title it has produced with many of the purchases made after the reviews came in and friends talked to friends.

We here at GTPlanet discussing GT are a different breed. LOL

In the realm of video game design, and modelling in particular, increasing efficiency can mean something a fair bit different than in other industries.

Perhaps, perhaps not. Maximizing production while limiting expenditures is a universal undertaking.

...and slightly less than that number actually like them.

With the majority of people not minding the standards at all.

Wait, did you just say "high quality"?

You better re-read what I posted sir.

I said - I can see the entire Standard car issue with Gran Turismo as quite the efficient and innovative solution. Use PS2 assets to get your PS3 version of your game a high quantity car list all the while saving time and money.

^^^

If recycling outdated assets, that are quite literally the lowest quality car models in the genre (in this generation) at this point, is "innovative", then I really hope the rest of the industry doesn't catch on to it.

Hey. I remember the charge you led against the Standards back in 2010, and I also remember that stating that while I am not happy about them, I don't have a problem with them.

It's a tough world out there right now for the gaming industry as it continues to shrink on a monthly basis. Who knows what we will see over the next few years if things get worse (I believe they will, but that's another topic).

No, having a number of sales vastly higher than your break-even point is better than not. Especially considering GT5 has had a bargain price tag tied to it for a long time now.

Yet still sold around 5 million copies or so at $60.00 per unit. Plus, who knows what Mercedes Benz, Red Bull, Chevrolet, Citroen, and of course Nissan paid into PDI.

I'm not saying GT5 didn't break even - I'm sure it did - but the numbers alone tell only a portion of the story.

Gran Turismo is the star of the story in which you speak of and I would imagine that many other developers would love to have a leading role in.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I am not concerned much about the damage model, most of the guys I race with prefer to race with damage off anyway so it is a non factor. Even when it is on I really don't much what it looks like. Much more interested if how it effects the way the car drives when damaged.

All in all damage and standard cars are no where near the top of my list for things I would like to see improved or added though improving these would be good I just think there are other areas that are more important.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

One could argue that, but alas, I expect PDI to combine the sales of both the PS3 and PS4. Even if it was just infuriate some.

Oh, I expect them to as well; those big numbers are so very important. Like the slightly misleading "70 million" fans text in the new trailer; 70 million total GT sales =/= 70 million different people .

Well heck Slip, someone has to be the yin to the yang, wouldn't you agree? The wheels of the message board bus go round and round.

Would I be here if I didn't agree?

That is a possibility, but lets be honest here. PDI has seen GT5 become the 3rd highest selling title it has produced with many of the purchases made after the reviews came in and friends talked to friends.

We here at GTPlanet discussing GT are a different breed. LOL

Absolutely 👍

Perhaps, perhaps not. Maximizing production while limiting expenditures is a universal undertaking.

It is, and working within the realm of digital design, breakthroughs and new methods can always help too.

With the majority of people not minding the standards at all.

True. Most people also don't mind Bieber on the radio. . A complacent fanbase/audience can be a dangerous thing.

You better re-read what I posted sir.

Oh. Oh my. Those new glasses can't come quick enough!
Sorry about that, really

Hey. I remember the charge you led against the Standards back in 2010, and I also remember that stating that while I am not happy about them, I don't have a problem with them.

It's a tough world out there right now for the gaming industry as it continues to shrink on a monthly basis. Who knows what we will see over the next few years if things get worse (I believe they will, but that's another topic).

It is a tough world out there, absolutely, which is one of the reasons I imagine most companies don't use recycled, decade-old assets to fill the majority of their new titles. I won't argue that some probably have been modifying something that started in some form that long ago, but PD used unaltered GT4 models in GT5, and going by Kaz' comments in the interview, the plan calls for only some Standards to be upgraded in GT6.

...and to tie that all back into the topic of the thread, that is my main concern; Standards provide such a laughably terrible take on the visual damage model that I really hope something is done with it for GT6 before it hits store shelves. It was bad enough in 2010; it'll be quite something else at the tail-end of 2013, especially with the added pressure of other entries in the genre on far more powerful consoles.

 

[Ranman20]

Accidents are prone to happen one day in your GT life, so the damage model could be a lot better. Crashes happen in real life, if GT is a sim, it needs to replicate damage a lot better than it is.

 

[Scaff]

Whatever reasons you can up with to justify your statement, one thing should be clear. Having extremely high sales numbers sure beats having low ones.

One thing that should be clear is that you have made no attempt to back up your claims with anything approaching evidence, high sales figure are always good to have (please find me stating anything different), but alone they are not an indication of a business' health, once again see GM.

Simply repeating the same point without actually addressing any of the others doesn't really work you know.

Spoken like someone from middle management.

What an utterly asinine comment to make!

Given that you have zero idea what my experience with efficiency programes is, nor my employment level at the time(s) your comment is meaningless and a rather poor attempt at a personal dig.

Oh I am sure some great programs have existed out there, but I have learned over the past decades that employees are usually the ones forced to adjust to efficiency guidelines.

Then you have worked for the wrong people, however its rather naive to then apply that standard across programes. That much was however quite clear the second you stopped discussing the subject and employed the personal digs..

 

[Sertsa]

In the linked article, I'm far more concerned with this comment:

"Polyphony will release a good game, but they'll also now add a lot more to it post-release instead of adding and adding before release which used to result in delaying and delaying."

If GT6 has even less game playing content at launch that GT5 did we're not going to have much to do other than look at the pristine cars.

 

[dr_slump]

In the linked article, I'm far more concerned with this comment:

"Polyphony will release a good game, but they'll also now add a lot more to it post-release instead of adding and adding before release which used to result in delaying and delaying."

If GT6 has even less game playing content at launch that GT5 did we're not going to have much to do other than look at the pristine cars.

It won't have less.

 

[Imari]

It won't have less.

Thank you for your information, Mr Polyphony Insider.

 

[Exorcet]

When it comes to using sales numbers as a criteria, I use them because of GT's success over a 15 year period. That alone provides us with plenty of reason to view PDI and GT in a positive light. I recently read that GT as a series has outsold the Halo and Zelda series of games. Of course, we could look at how GT has performed against it's competitors too.

Well timespan matters, and what's happened over a decade ago may not be relevant now. I certainly think that GT carries a lot of sales momentum, which would be why backlash from GT5 would come slowly. If GT6 does well, it may never come. It's not clear what will happen yet.

Sure, the forums are another tool for PDI and other individuals to look at, but think about this. When you look at the sheer amount of people of who have purchased GT5 as compared to the amount at GTPlanet (for example), it is impossible to gauge the feelings of the remaining 10 million people.

GTP isn't to be used as a gauge for the majority of the fanbase. It's a gauge for GTP. I'm not saying that the hardcore fans hold the dominant opinions, but that they can't simply be ignored.

All depends how you look at it. Casuals pick the game up, enjoy it, and move to the next big AAA title. The hardcore fans buy the game and play it too, but some decide to come to forums and discuss all the pros and cons of a title. Something to consider, both the casual and hardcore pay with the same money so who does Sony and PDI favor?

Well money isn't going tell you. But if it did, the price of the game and the numbers in each group still doesn't make it clear. The hardcore buy expensive editions, DLC, and perhaps even multiple copies. They can generate 10's of times more profit than a causal player and if the bottom line is money they could end up being far more important.

Increasing efficiency usually means over-working the employees. See, I was a part of Pepsi Co. (with Frito Lay and PBG) for several years and I have seen and experienced these corporate efficiency "improvements".

Overworking employees is the exact opposite. Now people may have to work harder, but it's an innovation because it's new and better. Not just more. When Lincoln Labs wanted a high altitude Global Hawk replacement concept, the team I was with didn't just take existing work and add on to it, we looked for new ideas to make the project goals a reality. We ended up with a twin fuselage, turbo prop high altitude surveillance plane.

Likewise when doing full vehicle CFD work, a big push is lowering simulation set up time in favor of simulation run time and analysis time. This lead to the development of highly automated methods of simulation set up within my company that became standard parts of our software. What we've achieved would be impossible if we just made people "push harder" for more hours per day.

You may have experienced one way of doing things, but I assure you that's not the only way it works.

With that said, innovation as applied to GT6 might be applied in areas you or I don't favor. I can see the entire Standard car issue with Gran Turismo as quite the efficient and innovative solution.

While I greatly enjoy standard cars, they aren't an innovation. Resourceful perhaps, but the results speak for themselves. There is a large amount of dislike for them. The cars also aren't at the same level as those from competitors. It was a tradeoff.

 

[dr_slump]

Thank you for your information, Mr Polyphony Insider.

Thank you even more for your unnecessary reply.



EDIT: Edit because I try to be nice.

 

[jabofu]

In the linked article, I'm far more concerned with this comment:

"Polyphony will release a good game, but they'll also now add a lot more to it post-release instead of adding and adding before release which used to result in delaying and delaying."

If GT6 has even less game playing content at launch that GT5 did we're not going to have much to do other than look at the pristine cars.

I think they mean that they add features via updates. But I really hope that they dont charge money for things like a livery editor or change the physics with countless updates (GT5).

As long as you dont have to download hundreds of mb every week to play, I am fine with them adding more features over the time. But I would like to see the updates in big Spec I, II, III updates. Those small updates all the time can be a bit annoying.

But updates to physics, sound and damage should be included in the next game instead of GT6. I dont want a GT6 V4.6 that feels and plays nothing like V1.0.

Damage should be more about body panels. A bumber wont fly away so easily, it should hang off at one side. Losing all body panels on a crash like in Forza or strangly deformed parts like in GT5 are both no ideal solutions.

 

[CoolColJ]

Now this is real crash damage and physics....

from 1min onwards

 

[Quakebass]

Now this is real crash damage and physics....

from 1min onwards

See, this, despite it being damage-focused (I've followed this project, I know what it's about), is VERY realistic. Weight transfer and car jiggling is simulated beyond what's been done before. As for the handling, suspension, and tire/grid modeling, I have no clue. But damage CAN lead to more realism, when it's taken in this way. I like having the risk factor in my games, so if you go off-course and spin, you aren't just going to bounce off a wall.

DiRT has deforming barriers, and I saw this game had a deformable stop sign... It was in a live stream. Of course, this wouldn't be possible until the PS4 hardware is utilized... Maybe not until the 8th installment, but either way, this sort of model with PD's level of attention to detail in the physics modeling would be SPECTACULAR.