GT producer - Damage still the same.

[Samus]

I'd rather they prioritize physics, content and sound over damage. Damage would be awesome, but imagine the additional processing power it would take to track the flying pieces.

In my opinion, it's best left for the PS4, where processing power will more likely be more than doubled.

The problem with this statement here is replace PS4 for PS3 and we're back in 2004/5. They've been in the game a LONG time and seen two hardware generation increases, if things remain the same on PS4 what then? Wait for PS5?

 

[avens]

I read here that the main issue is the way cars are modeled in GT5. They are just one shell that has everything included on it, for example wings, fenders, doors, trunk and so on, with the exception of the very few premium rally cars that are in the game.

Also there's not a single racing game/sim that truly gets it right on the visual representation side of things (this is not a priority for anyone) and getting there would be weird really (cars getting completely destroyed).

For all those reasons I don't see GT6 on the PS3 and on the PS4 having a good visual damage model. It doesn't have to do with "Kaz's vision", contracts with manufacturers not to show their cars getting damaged and so on. Maybe PS5 in 10 years?


edit, hours after: Personally I don't care about visual damage, but I would like GT6 to have mechanical damage precisely to the extent of making gentleman racing in consoles a reality. Not more (random failures not related to players' performance, nor going to extreme extents for a console game), though not less (the current GT5 need for speed-like pseudo racing. All about abusing flaws of the game such as physics, assists, bugs, cars PP and tuning issues, then crashing other players or use their cars as a turning aid).

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

http://kotaku.com/three-casual-gran-turismo-6-questions-answered-casuall-508331804

What's next? Same bad AI and boring racing? This game is looking more and more like Gt5 spec III.. Major disappointment.

Gran Turismo, the only sim where you can punt, crash your way past cars and into walls with impunity, on your way to victory lol.

They really are losing touch.

Ouch. I thought they would at least improve the damage a little. Oh well I guess they truly just have to take baby steps to get everything finished. Still going to be many years before all the cars in this series are truly finished. It does make me laugh thinking back that the people that thought the damage would unlock when you hit a certain level. "Its not there right now but it unlocks at level 40". Oh good times.

 

[SavageEvil]

I think the cast majority of people are forgetting one thing, this game is Kaz's vision not you or mine or anyone else's. This is what it means to create something that people will love, you create the game that you want to play and people will gravitate to it based on what you thought was fun and enjoyable. If you attempt to make a game everyone will like it will fail. No one notices that since the first GT you have been adhering to Kaz's vision of a driving game, sure people had complaints and disagreements yet the game continued to sell. Each game changed in outward appearance but Kaz's dream still continued. People come in here complaining and cry about what it doesn't do and what it does wrong, sure you are passionate about what you want for the game but underlying idea is this is not your dream it's his, appreciate it for what it is and nothing more. People gripe about Kaz being out of touch with the community and all this, yet you want to impose your dreams upon him and want him to change his dream to suit yours, selfish much? You're playing his game in his world, that's it.

If you can't live in Kaz's world and enjoy his dream, then you can leave no one is forcing you to stick with bad sounds, poor visual damage and all the other shortcomings of the game. It's an decision that you make, no one else. I play GT5 and many things I do not like but as a whole the game is still quite enjoyable, sure there are things that I would love to see implemented and changed and bettered but it's up to Kaz to do things he want in his timing. What ever happened to enjoying a game for what it is and then playing the new iteration and see the improvements and whether the core philosophy still remains?

GT5 launched one way and kept evolving, some things were attempted and then removed, look at that no one seems to pay attention to the fact that Kaz is actually trying to create a core that works best. GT6 sounds like they found a core that makes sense, so why are we passing judgement having played absolutely zilch of this game? It's built on the PS3 so don't expect too many miracles to happen, but one thing I expect is refinement, each GT the physics underwent change and refinement and each was better than the last. Cheers! Just like when you hope and wish for things beyond your control to happen, they don't always happen because you want them to.

*Note* Hey OP can you change that heading of the thread, it's paraphrasing and implies one thing over another. He did not say it's the same, he said it's similar to GT5. For purposes of GT5 car damage same means that it's unchanged, which would have made sense for him to say, but he did not. Similar means very much alike but not unchanging, meaning there could be changes to the damage engine. They could have scaled it back, they could have added deeper level of damage like brake fade, suspension link damage, who knows what similar could mean?
For now we have no idea what he really meant to say, but be that as it may for PD to go through the trouble of beefing up standards to allow for front lip spoiler, front canards and possibly rear diffusers along with spoilers, I would think that the damage would also be upgraded to include a slightly better representation. The way GT5's standards kind of melted would look pretty messed up when you have those premium level attachments on the cars wouldn't you think? Well we have E3 and other shows to look forward to, so we will know a bit more then. That's my two cents.

 

[Wolfercz]

I think the cast majority of people are forgetting one thing, this game is Kaz's vision not you or mine or anyone else's. This is what it means to create something that people will love, you create the game that you want to play and people will gravitate to it based on what you thought was fun and enjoyable. If you attempt to make a game everyone will like it will fail. No one notices that since the first GT you have been adhering to Kaz's vision of a driving game, sure people had complaints and disagreements yet the game continued to sell. Each game changed in outward appearance but Kaz's dream still continued. People come in here complaining and cry about what it doesn't do and what it does wrong, sure you are passionate about what you want for the game but underlying idea is this is not your dream it's his, appreciate it for what it is and nothing more. People gripe about Kaz being out of touch with the community and all this, yet you want to impose your dreams upon him and want him to change his dream to suit yours, selfish much? You're playing his game in his world, that's it.
If you can't live in Kaz's world and enjoy his dream, then you can leave no one is forcing you to stick with bad sounds, poor visual damage and all the other shortcomings of the game. It's an decision that you make, no one else. I play GT5 and many things I do not like but as a whole the game is still quite enjoyable, sure there are things that I would love to see implemented and changed and bettered but it's up to Kaz to do things he want in his timing. What ever happened to enjoying a game for what it is and then playing the new iteration and see the improvements and whether the core philosophy still remains? GT5 launched one way and kept evolving, some things were attempted and then removed, look at that no one seems to pay attention to the fact that Kaz is actually trying to create a core that works best. GT6 sounds like they found a core that makes sense, so why are we passing judgement having played absolutely zilch of this game? It's built on the PS3 so don't expect too many miracles to happen, but one thing I expect is refinement, each GT the physics underwent change and refinement and each was better than the last. Cheers! Just like when you hope and wish for things beyond your control to happen, they don't always happen because you want them to.

Kazu Akbar much, also tl;dr.

I thought the game's subtitle clearly says The Real Driving Simulator not The Dream Experience of One Crazy Japanese Man

EDIT: I am just trying to satirically point out where I see the flaws in your argumentation, no offense intended

 

[sinbad]

Never been at all bothered about visual damage so that doesn't bother me.

 

[awr117]

Damage is pretty low on my list of things I wish to see changed / corrected with a new addition to Gran Turismo. I can live with the current damage model as is.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Not a priority for Kaz/PD...big difference. This game, perhaps more than any other in the history of videogames, follows the personal preferences of it's founder and leader. I'd say generally that if Kaz wants something and it's in the budget, it gets done. If he doesn't want it or it's a very low priority it doesn't even come up in meetings, memo's, emails etc.

So Kaz is a dictator now?

Tell you what though games that don't listen to consumers always fail in the end.

 

[Exorcet]

I think the cast majority of people are forgetting one thing, this game is Kaz's vision... If you can't live in Kaz's world and enjoy his dream, then you can leave no one is forcing you to stick with bad sounds

And we're the investors financing it. If he ignores us, he goes out of business.

He can do what he wants, but the very nature of business means that the company president, or whoever is never fully in charge.

 

[SavageEvil]

And we're the investors financing it. If he ignores us, he goes out of business.

He can do what he wants, but the very nature of business means that the company president, or whoever is never fully in charge.

When PD first started GT did you invest in it? Stop it, they had to plunk down for everything, it was an investment. Your point about the business is exactly correct, but GT how it grows as a game is definitely under Kaz's control. Sony decides the major parts of the business, sure our money is used for something but it all goes to Sony and they paid PD long before they can recoup anything from sales. In case you were wondering, usually developers are paid at the end of the project and not based on performance of the project. That money goes to the publisher.

 

[Exorcet]

When PD first started GT did you invest in it?

I bought it. I was an investor.

Stop it, they had to plunk down for everything, it was an investment. Your point about the business is exactly correct, but GT how it grows as a game is definitely under Kaz's control. Sony decides the major parts of the business, sure our money is used for something but it all goes to Sony and they paid PD long before they can recoup anything from sales. In case you were wondering, usually developers are paid at the end of the project and not based on performance of the project. That money goes to the publisher.

Our money is still vastly powerful then. If a project pulls in no money, its sequel won't exist.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you, but a big reason Kaz can do what he does is because we pay him.

 

[Johnnypenso]

So Kaz is a dictator now?

Tell you what though games that don't listen to consumers always fail in the end.

He answers to shareholders and Sony and I'm pretty sure they don't give a crap about Standards and Premiums and crash damage and A-Spec. He's brought in $5Billion pretty much with his own vision and as long as the dough keeps rolling in, that's all they care about. If anyone wants to protest GT6, don't buy it, because every purchase is a vote for keeping Kaz at the helm and just as importantly, continuing the path that the GT series is on. I'm guessing their sales targets are actually quite modest for GT6, perhaps on the order of 7-9 million units. If they don't hit their targets questions will be asked, and if they are way off targets, heads will roll.

 

[Feldynn]

I bought it. I was an investor.

Wouldn't buying the game technically make you a consumer or a customer rather than an investor? I mean you just brought the game, you didn't actually give them money specifically to help fund the development or anything like that right?

Now if you brought into something like Project Cars while it's in it's development stage then that might class you as an investor of sorts, simply buying the completed product.. not so much I think.

 

[dr_slump]

I bought it. I was an investor.

You can't use the word investor this way.

 

[sinbad]

I mean you just brought the game........Now if you brought into something like Project Cars

You can't use the word "brought" in this way.

 

[sems4arsenal]

He answers to shareholders and Sony and I'm pretty sure they don't give a crap about Standards and Premiums and crash damage and A-Spec. He's brought in $5Billion pretty much with his own vision and as long as the dough keeps rolling in, that's all they care about. If anyone wants to protest GT6, don't buy it, because every purchase is a vote for keeping Kaz at the helm and just as importantly, continuing the path that the GT series is on. I'm guessing their sales targets are actually quite modest for GT6, perhaps on the order of 7-9 million units. If they don't hit their targets questions will be asked, and if they are way off targets, heads will roll.

No GT6 will sell and sell big,It will probably surpass GT6's sales eventually .GT5 is the best selling Sony exclusive despite being regarded as one of the weakest entries in the series if not the weakest.

So even if people who are dissapointed of the lack of damage decline to but it will still sell .

 

[Exorcet]

Wouldn't buying the game technically make you a consumer or a customer rather than an investor? I mean you just brought the game, you didn't actually give them money specifically to help fund the development or anything like that right?

Now if you brought into something like Project Cars while it's in it's development stage then that might class you as an investor of sorts, simply buying the completed product.. not so much I think.

You can't use the word investor this way.

Well, you get the point.

 

[xStretch-]

I can live without damage but if they do add it I beleive it should be done properly

If Grid and Burnout can create awesome damage then why can't PD.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Wouldn't buying the game technically make you a consumer or a customer rather than an investor? I mean you just brought the game, you didn't actually give them money specifically to help fund the development or anything like that right?

Now if you brought into something like Project Cars while it's in it's development stage then that might class you as an investor of sorts, simply buying the completed product.. not so much I think.

...what???

Not sure if you know how things work, but by consuming a product you also are investing toward it as well. There is some percentage of the purchase that is going to go toward R&D and if you are a long time user, and have bought each game that PD has put out (prologues and TT as well). You are promoting the ability for them along with others to keep developing games further than the last built, thus investing toward a game that you believe might get better.

I wouldn't say you are a full blown investor, which even Exorcet seems to acknowledge is not what he fully meant.

I can live without damage but if they do add it I beleive it should be done properly

If Grid and Burnout can create awesome damage then why can't PD.

I agree, my issue with the PD statement seems to be once again a cop out rather than saying "we just don't get it". Not sure why they are giving us this emotional excuse for why they wont advance it. Also they swipe at other games that supposedly smash up cars wasn't needed, there are games that simulate to the level of GT and still have damage, not to smash them but to be realistic to what they are emulating.

 

[xStretch-]

I agree, my issue with the PD statement seems to be once again a cop out rather than saying "we just don't get it". Not sure why they are giving us this emotional excuse for why they wont advance it. Also they swipe at other games that supposedly smash up cars wasn't needed, there are games that simulate to the level of GT and still have damage, not to smash them but to be realistic to what they are emulating.

Personally I would love for them to do it properly. Even small things like losing end plates on your front wing affecting preformence or even having to have tear offs on your window from bugs in long races. Even the smallest details are the best

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Personally I would love for them to do it properly. Even small things like losing end plates on your front wing affecting preformence or even having to have tear offs on your window from bugs in long races. Even the smallest details are the best

I do too, and I agree other things should be fixed then damage if they have that much trouble doing it all at once. I doubt though we will see such detailed damage any time soon, PD seem to be back to the thought of cars don't get damaged or at least they shouldn't ever in GT games.

 

[Nattefrost]

...what???

Not sure if you know how things work, but by consuming a product you also are investing toward it as well. There is some percentage of the purchase that is going to go toward R&D and if you are a long time user, and have bought each game that PD has put out (prologues and TT as well). You are promoting the ability for them along with others to keep developing games further than the last built, thus investing toward a game that you believe might get better.

I wouldn't say you are a full blown investor, which even Exorcet seems to acknowledge is not what he fully meant.

At the risk of going too far off-topic, but I just can't agree with this. When you buy a product, your purchase covers the cost of the entire production process and once those costs are covered, there's profit. There's nothing more going on there, no percentage going to future R&D or anything, that's all there is to it. Sure, budgets for future products depend on profit, but that's not what you're paying them for.

 

[tinram]

I would be happy with mechanical damage, tire punctures, suspension and steering issues, engine blowing up etc. They could set it up where if you have not serviced a car for a while it would have a bigger chance of having issues even if you where not involved on an incident. And a semi random issue when you get into an accident.

Visual damage would be nice, but it would not bother me if it was not there.

Also you should get stuck on sand traps depending on your suspension and tire choices. Then you'll see a tow truck come in and pick you up

Also, how about driver damage, you hit a wall at 200MPH you should die and have to create a new persona and go trough the license tests again. Now this would be funny but i would like it. Or break a leg and not be able to drive a car for a week.

 

[UkHardcore23]

It seems PD are unable to put out a properly finished game these days.

 

[Filip_Ovik]

I'm glad they don't spends money on the damage, improving the sounds from the cars is much more important in my opinion.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

At the risk of going too far off-topic, but I just can't agree with this. When you buy a product, your purchase covers the cost of the entire production process and once those costs are covered, there's profit. There's nothing more going on there, no percentage going to future R&D or anything, that's all there is to it. Sure, budgets for future products depend on profit, but that's not what you're paying them for.

No I understand where you are coming from, though I find it hard to believe that any amount made profit wise, doesn't have a margin to be put toward R&D for future products, it is a business and thus any money brought in would not only pay makers but also future endeavors. I'm not saying we are investors, last time I checked I don't think PD have an IPO. Also the product productions isn't 70-110 USD per game, and still with profit why wouldn't their be any money funded from sales prior toward R&D. Unless I'm to believe that Sony floats the bill for GT production and PD obviously are just the builders. If that were the case some of that money from GT sales would still be going toward future productions due to the share Sony gets from sales along with studio, and then refunding PD for the next game.

If you get what I'm saying...I agree with exorcet but once again I don't think we are full blown investors, but you are right we should move on, sorry.

I'm glad they don't spends money on the damage, improving the sounds from the cars is much more important in my opinion.

I still don't get why people believe that PD are doing this because of money? Also a person in the sound thread said the same thing

"I'm glad pd don't spend money toward sound, they should focus on visuals and menus" -paraphrase.

 

[maxpontiac]

This isn't just about finances. Forums are a good source of information regarding the health of the series. If the fans aren't pleased, that could indicate a problem. There is nothing wrong with looking at sales numbers as a success criteria, but it's not so simple to say that high sales means that PD did everything right. Maybe in the short term that is true, but it might not be in the long term.

When it comes to using sales numbers as a criteria, I use them because of GT's success over a 15 year period. That alone provides us with plenty of reason to view PDI and GT in a positive light. I recently read that GT as a series has outsold the Halo and Zelda series of games. Of course, we could look at how GT has performed against it's competitors too.

Sure, the forums are another tool for PDI and other individuals to look at, but think about this. When you look at the sheer amount of people of who have purchased GT5 as compared to the amount at GTPlanet (for example), it is impossible to gauge the feelings of the remaining 10 million people.

Yet, GT5 may lead to sales dropping off for every sequel ever produced.

Yes, and GT6 may become the biggest seller of the franchise. I can remember many people here predicting that GT5 would never reach 10 million copies sold and two years later...

This is true, but ambiguity lies in sales figures as well. Still if most of the conversation generated about the game is negative, that's not something to simply ignore.

Of course not, and all the negativity is something that can't applied to everyone who comes here. If you notice (I have) the people who complain here about GT5 are pretty much the same individuals saying the same thing. Occasionally, you will have someone change their name, but the message stays the same.

I was not saying otherwise. What I was saying is that 1 diehard fan may be worth more than 1 casual player.

All depends how you look at it. Casuals pick the game up, enjoy it, and move to the next big AAA title. The hardcore fans buy the game and play it too, but some decide to come to forums and discuss all the pros and cons of a title. Something to consider, both the casual and hardcore pay with the same money so who does Sony and PDI favor?

If they're happy based on sales alone, that doesn't seem very safe. Fortunately it doesn't seem to be how they think considering the GT6 announcement. In particular, the physics engine revamp is a big hint that PD knows not to complete ignore the fans. From what I gather most casual players think GT is a supercomputer simulation, and there probably wasn't a loud voice to fix the physics outside of places like GTP (And even then it was only from a fraction of users).

I believe it's PDI moving forward in the effort to put the best racing video game on the market. Kaz's race experience has undoubtedly transformed his mindset when it comes to gaming so it makes perfect sense to include some real world racing companies in GT6.

Cutting projects is not the only option. Increasing efficiency can work extremely well, if not better. Innovation might be more common in the situation we see now, because no one likes to be in it.

Increasing efficiency usually means over-working the employees. See, I was a part of Pepsi Co. (with Frito Lay and PBG) for several years and I have seen and experienced these corporate efficiency "improvements".

With that said, innovation as applied to GT6 might be applied in areas you or I don't favor. I can see the entire Standard car issue with Gran Turismo as quite the efficient and innovative solution. Use PS2 assets to get your PS3 version of your game a high quantity car list all the while saving time and money. Does it annoy some folks? Well according to the poll here in the GT6 forum, only 110 people are bothered this.

 

[TetreRouge]

To refine my views from earlier, I feel that a game of Gran Turismo's nature should only have the type of damage which means that if you make a huge mistake, have a big off or deliberately put someone off = race over or your cars performance compromised via damage taken. Anything less than this is in my view inviting dirty drivers.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, and GT6 may become the biggest seller of the franchise. I can remember many people here predicting that GT5 would never reach 10 million copies sold and two years later...

Sales figures alone do not make a company profitable or healthy.

GM swaps place with Toyota as the largest car manufacturer in the world on a regular basis, yet they are neither a profitable or healthy business.

I believe it's PDI moving forward in the effort to put the best racing video game on the market. Kaz's race experience has undoubtedly transformed his mindset when it comes to gaming so it makes perfect sense to include some real world racing companies in GT6.

About time as well.

Increasing efficiency usually means over-working the employees. See, I was a part of Pepsi Co. (with Frito Lay and PBG) for several years and I have seen and experienced these corporate efficiency "improvements".

Utter nonsense, efficient working practice doesn't always mean overworking employees (and PD already does this by its own admission). Often its simply a better way of working that allows people to do more work in less time and can actually be beneficial to both sides, so please don't judge all efficiency programmes by your own experience.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

To refine my views from earlier, I feel that a game of Gran Turismo's nature should only have the type of damage which means that if you make a huge mistake, have a big off or deliberately put someone off = race over or your cars performance compromised via damage taken. Anything less than this is in my view inviting dirty drivers.

How do you justify that? I mean I understand greatly everything else, but then you take a wide left or right and say it promotes or entices dirty driving...

Yet how? I feel no further urge to wreck someone on GT than say F1 games, or any PC sims or console simcade. And most if not everyone I raced feels the same.