GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[z06fun]

So now that I spent more time with 1.04, I think there is something interesting in long braking zones. With the N300 Evo and TT (sports hards) on the ring, I notice a distinctive change in the tire squeal from the start of the brake zone to the end, like the tires are heating up and changing sound and/or grip during the braking. That certainly can happen in real life, very interesting. The same long brake zone in the Evora doesn't seem to show this trait as much, maybe because the tires are more equally loaded under braking vs the Evo & TT. Very interesting!

Its hard to fully understand everything that has changed with N300 cars using the ring, since the road surface is bumpy and the camber is all over the place. Willow springs or Brands Hatch will be interesting to test.

I like the feel of the N300 cars now:tup:
I wonder if PD has been reading gtplanet

 

[EDK]

So now that I spent more time with 1.04, I think there is something interesting in long braking zones. With the N300 Evo and TT (sports hards) on the ring, I notice a distinctive change in the tire squeal from the start of the brake zone to the end, like the tires are heating up and changing sound and/or grip during the braking. That certainly can happen in real life, very interesting. The same long brake zone in the Evora doesn't seem to show this trait as much, maybe because the tires are more equally loaded under braking vs the Evo & TT. Very interesting!

I like the feel of the N300 cars now:tup:
I wonder if PD has been reading gtplanet

I was getting the same thing last night in my Audi TT, especially going into Aremberg.

I was seeing something red light up on my screen at the end of the zone, not sure if it was an ABS light or just the tires glowing red. I was too busy trying to keep the car in check to know for sure what it was.

But I had to make some tuning adjustments to the Audi to make it manageable while releasing the brake, I mainly upped the braking LSD. Now running 8/50/15 front and 5/25/20 rear. That meant I could not rotate the car as much with trail brake, so I had to rely on front grip while launching from the corner to finish off the turn.

That was a quick adjustment to try and set a lap, I got to an 8:21 with that setup and a few other tweaks, my first N300 laps at Nurb.

Also, got anecdotal feedback in a separate conversation that guys were about 3 seconds off their prior pace and braking zones seemed longer. That was from 4 or 5 guys who are pretty experienced, so I think there is something to it.

 

[JDMKING13]

I really wish they didn't take away arcade mode, just got the Genesis and would like to drive it on Comfort tires.

 

[weedybroz]

what exactly is the lsd supposed to do ? i have never drive a car that had one unless limited slip is a form of lsd

 

[EDK]

what exactly is the lsd supposed to do ? i have never drive a car that had one unless limited slip is a form of lsd

LSD = Limited Slip Differential.

 

[Johnnypenso]

what exactly is the lsd supposed to do ? i have never drive a car that had one unless limited slip is a form of lsd

In the simplest of terms the LSD determines the point at which the driven wheels go from being locked into rotating at the same speed and unlocked and able to rotate at different speeds. This can be adjusted for both the acceleration and deceleration phase.

 

[ebelen92]

what exactly is the lsd supposed to do ? i have never drive a car that had one unless limited slip is a form of lsd

LSD= Limited Slip Differential. This limits the difference of speed between the inner and outer drive wheels during cornering.
Pre-load: the pre-loaded lock on a differential. Lower number means the difference in speed between both drive wheels is allowed to be higher. Higher number means less difference.

Acceleration lock: differential locking on acceleration. Higher means more locking, lower means less.

Brake lock: same as before but off throttle.

 

[EDK]

In the simplest of terms the LSD determine the point at which the driven wheels go from being locked into rotating at the same speed and unlocked and able to rotate at different speeds. This can be adjusted for both the acceleration and deceleration phase.

As well as the initial torque, which is the tendency of LSD to deploy at all (i.e. how much grip needs to be lost before it the effect kicks in).

The other adjustments are the strength of the effect once it does kick in.

 

[OdeFinn]

As well as the initial torque, which is the tendency of LSD to deploy at all (i.e. how much grip needs to be lost before it the effect kicks in).

The other adjustments are the strength of the effect once it does kick in.

Well initial torque is amount how hard lock is engaged before you even start engine, it start locking from there towards acceleration side amount.

 

[EDK]

Well initial torque is amount how hard lock is engaged before you even start engine, it start locking from there towards acceleration side amount.

Right, my layman's means of describing it was a bit different, but from my perspective, that is the effect when tuning.

If you make that first number higher, it tends to make the effect of the other two more immediate and dramatic.

 

[OdeFinn]

Right, my layman's means of describing it was a bit different, but from my perspective, that is the effect when tuning.

If you make that first number higher, it tends to make the effect of the other two more immediate and dramatic.

If you set acceleration same as initial then it won't change locking at all during acceleration, just keeping same.
But i.e. GT6 "fail" taking acc and dec locks in count during cornering, it counts inner wheel road friction resistance to deceleration lock and uses dec lock value on there, so on GT6 you needed to have "correct" rate between acc&dec locks.
GTS probably has overcome this, judging this just from correctly sounding transmission whine, hoping at GTS utilises deceleration lock correctly now.

Example, 20/40/20 locking curve on acceleration is smoother than 10/40/10, same amount of overall torque is needed on both ceases to achieve "full" locking.
Torque delivered from engine what is below initial doesn't effect on locking at all, your assumption of harsh locking from high initial might come from this, no changes until you deliver torque more than initial is. Low initial will give you feeling of locking change from start of your throttle input, but if car is having high torque then it might be too late locking on low initial, because other wheel has broken traction before lock kicks in and on that case it's not able to settle skidding tire and instead settling it will take other wheel along it and start skidding both.

 

[EDK]

your assumption of harsh locking from high initial might come from this, no changes until you deliver torque more than initial is. Low initial will give you feeling of locking change from start of your throttle input, but if car is having high torque then it might be too late locking on low initial, because other wheel has broken traction before lock kicks in and on that case it's not able to settle skidding tire and instead settling it will take other wheel along it and start skidding both.

Above bold is what I am referencing. If you have the car set up to begin locking too early, then it will also have a tendency to push you off the track. That's the whole point of creating the balance. Where's that perfect point of gaining full traction on time within shoving the car completely off the circuit.

 

[OdeFinn]

Above bold is what I am referencing. If you have the car set up to begin locking too early, then it will also have a tendency to push you off the track. That's the whole point of creating the balance. Where's that perfect point of gaining full traction on time within shoving the car completely off the circuit.

That feeling is often misleading, amount of locking in start isn't enough for most cars and before locking amount is sufficient for those cars you're already skidding one wheel, then adding second there and again you have feeling of good turning, but actually you're losing lot of car acceleration capacity, better locking allow more power to ground, doing "perfect" lock for current car and driver will take few seconds out from lap time.

Perfect is always combination of car(power+ setup) and driver, if driver just slams throttle down on corner exit then it's better to skid inside wheel with low lock than having higher lock. If driver knows his car grip limits and have high lock and not slamming throttle on exit, but instead knows how to progressively accelerate out then high lock is prefect.
If tyre wear is taken count (or activated) then low lock person will eventually lose.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

All this time I thought it caused trails, slowed time perception, and closed eye visuals.

 

[EDK]

That feeling is often misleading, amount of locking in start isn't enough for most cars and before locking amount is sufficient for those cars you're already skidding one wheel, then adding second there and again you have feeling of good turning, but actually you're losing lot of car acceleration capacity, better locking allow more power to ground, doing "perfect" lock for current car and driver will take few seconds out from lap time.

Perfect is always combination of car(power+ setup) and driver, if driver just slams throttle down on corner exit then it's better to skid inside wheel with low lock than having higher lock. If driver knows his car grip limits and have high lock and not slamming throttle on exit, but instead knows how to progressively accelerate out then high lock is prefect.
If tyre wear is taken count (or activated) then low lock person will eventually lose.

This is all of course provided that it works the way it's "supposed to". So part of what I am referencing is what I have seen in past iterations of GT. But I would also say that I did play around a bit with higher initial torque numbers and did not like the feeling they gave.

Exceptionally high initial torque would basically be like driving on track with a spool diff. I've done that, it wasn't all that fun.

 

[OdeFinn]

This is all of course provided that it works the way it's "supposed to". So part of what I am referencing is what I have seen in past iterations of GT. But I would also say that I did play around a bit with higher initial torque numbers and did not like the feeling they gave.

Exceptionally high initial torque would basically be like driving on track with a spool diff. I've done that, it wasn't all that fun.

There's no right or wrong between high and low, all is about balance what current driver can handle.
Low is bad if used badly, and so is high.

 

[Fredzy]

I was getting the same thing last night in my Audi TT, especially going into Aremberg.

Yes, this corner. It took several attempts and much earlier braking to stay out of the sand. Brakes seemed to really give up the ghost. I might try to run a few races tonight, my Audi looks like it might pose a challenge for the EVO guys. Wish they would reset the boards!

 

[SileightyCyrus]

I really wish they didn't take away arcade mode, just got the Genesis and would like to drive it on Comfort tires.

Oh no...that was actually my favorite thing to do since I am working during the live races. Sad!

 

[ebelen92]

Put about an hour into Nords today in my N300 Megane and managed an 8:22.9xx in my final run, did nothing to the setup I had before. I think an 8:20.xxx is possible from me. Before today I didn't have a good reference as to what a good time was for a D rated driver seeing as how my only recorded times were during races where I was being super careful starting from the back of the field. The only thing I dislike is that the Megane got dropped from 285 hp to 269 hp in BoP.

 

[JDMKING13]

Oh no...that was actually my favorite thing to do since I am working during the live races. Sad!

Yea bro I hope they bring arcade mode back, even if they just disable it during online hours. They new tire model feels great and not being able to test comfort tires is killing me. Also I like the fact you get the cars with the stock numbers ughhh.

 

[weedybroz]

okay. thanks. the reason i asked is someone from gt6 told me to always lower it and i did and cars seemed drive okay but maybe i made a mistake by doing that .

 

[trustjab]

I am currently using the ds4 and braking into turns without abs is very tricky. Admittedly my controller is old so the L2 button might not be so sensitive anymore, but damn. Even with abs on the lowest setting, the hard braking will lock the tires late into the braking phase. I have not been playing it much because I have to use the ds4 but it's a big departure from gt6. In the more realistic way imo.

 

[EDK]

okay. thanks. the reason i asked is someone from gt6 told me to always lower it and i did and cars seemed drive okay but maybe i made a mistake by doing that .

In GT6, the effect of the LSD accel settings was arguably inverted. Bascially, the higher power and more difficult to handle cars, you would set lower numbers.

So LMP cars would end up with 10-15 on accel, GT cars maybe 15-25. Then maybe 20-30 for most road cars, depending on power and layout.

But on GTS, that physics flaw seems to be corrected. If you set very low numbers for accel, you will get a lot of wheel spin.

 

[suprajef]

In GT6, the effect of the LSD accel settings was arguably inverted. Bascially, the higher power and more difficult to handle cars, you would set lower numbers.

So LMP cars would end up with 10-15 on accel, GT cars maybe 15-25. Then maybe 20-30 for most road cars, depending on power and layout.

But on GTS, that physics flaw seems to be corrected. If you set very low numbers for accel, you will get a lot of wheel spin.

It is especially bad on fwd cars lol

 

[praiano63]

In GT6, the effect of the LSD accel settings was arguably inverted. Bascially, the higher power and more difficult to handle cars, you would set lower numbers.

So LMP cars would end up with 10-15 on accel, GT cars maybe 15-25. Then maybe 20-30 for most road cars, depending on power and layout.

But on GTS, that physics flaw seems to be corrected. If you set very low numbers for accel, you will get a lot of wheel spin.

Not inverted at all in my opinion.
I have found the same as GT6. For a powerfull FR car out corner for example , high accel LSD value induce exterior rear wheel to spin (over steer). Low value rear inside whell spin. (under steer)
4WD out corner, high LSD accell front lower rear = under steer. I did this test with the TTS in turn 2 hair pin brands hatch.

 

[EDK]

Not inverted at all in my opinion.
I have found the same as GT6. For a powerfull FR car out corner for example , high accel LSD value induce exterior rear wheel to spin (over steer). Low value rear inside whell spin. (under steer)
4WD out corner, high LSD accell front lower rear = under steer. I did this test with the TTS in turn 2 hair pin brands hatch.

Maybe not inverted, but for RWD cars my point still stands. I personally do not believe setting numbers up around 30 or 40 for accel was advantageous on GT6. Now whether that is due to some other factor in the setup and physics, I don't know. But I will maintain that setting up LSD for RWD cars is different on this game.

 

[polizei]

Tires in the new update feel like they change from grippy to slippery and back and forth a lot more. Maybe tire temp is fluctuating? Braking feels to take a bit longer but grip in corners seems about the same or maybe even a tiny bit better. Imo.

 

[z06fun]

I have felt that too, mostly with the N300 cars. I think there is some dynamic tire temp modeling going on that is not indicated on the tire icons right now. I think that might be why the tires change sounds in long braking zones.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Tires in the new update feel like they change from grippy to slippery and back and forth a lot more. Maybe tire temp is fluctuating? Braking feels to take a bit longer but grip in corners seems about the same or maybe even a tiny bit better. Imo.

If this is true it means they adjusted the longitudinal grip levels of the tires without adjusting the lateral grip much, if at all, a good sign that they are tweaking the physics. I recall some earlier discussion that braking distances were quite short in the initial phase of the beta. Problem is, they should be telling people in the beta what adjustments they are making instead of waiting for them to figure it out themselves.

 

[EDK]

I recall some earlier discussion that braking distances were quite short in the initial phase of the beta.

Yes, they were too short. It was driving me crazy, I was further off the pace than I thought I might be.

This has been a good 'change of pace' for me.