GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[mirial]

Yes I think it is good news, what I would like PD to look into though is I think the cars are easy to catch, dont get me wrong sometimes I cant catch it but majority I can I would like to see it be a little harder

Well, this is bad; is the system actually catching the back end before it loses grip , or just slightly after? Not everyone can be expected to be oversteer merchants, but if what I believe is happening, this just breeds complacency in the long run because anyone that takes an interest in driving, can learn to drive with some oversteer. It also doesn't really teach people how to set cars up properly to a balance they are comfortable driving with a more forgiving rear, or a bit of understeer or both.

 

[Knukel]

Gt Sport beta videos made me look my old saved Gt6 replays from the past and they also look like sped up videos, cars seems to handle like they are absolutely weightless.. Of course i need to test it to be 100% sure, but it does look like GT6 only with new visuals and sounds.

 

[JDMKING13]

Well, this is bad; is the system actually catching the back end before it loses grip , or just slightly after? Not everyone can be expected to be oversteer merchants, but if what I believe is happening, this just breeds complacency in the long run because anyone that takes an interest in driving, can learn to drive with some oversteer. It also doesn't really teach people how to set cars up properly to a balance they are comfortable driving with a more forgiving rear, or a bit of understeer or both.

I dont think it's the system its just easier for me to catch the car when the car gets upset compared to AC and Pcars. I don't always catch it either the R8 LMS is a real handful, in my opinion your gonna have to try the game out.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The fact we're talking about these aspects of the physics engine AT ALL is great.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I dont think it's the system its just easier for me to catch the car when the car gets upset compared to AC and Pcars. I don't always catch it either the R8 LMS is a real handful, in my opinion your gonna have to try the game out.

The R8 is only one example.

 

[JDMKING13]

The R8 is only one example.

Yea the R8 just doesn't give me the best confidence when trying to achieve the best time the audi TTS is also truck you have to brake in a straight line and be smooth on the brakes or the rear end will kick out on you. This happens to the Evo also but way easier to manage. So far the GTS AMG is my favorite car to drive it can bite sometimes though. I don't have all the cars either so I can only comment on the cars I have.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

All the talk of the TT S being unruly under braking has me a little curious about the underlying physics engine at worst, or just the BoP PD has applied at best. Not a single review of the new car calls it up for being a twitchy, unpredictable drive — quite the opposite — so it really doesn't jive. I don't doubt those that are saying it, though: it's looked like a handful around Willow Springs.

 

[EDK]

Yea the R8 just doesn't give me the best confidence when trying to achieve the best time the audi TTS is also truck you have to brake in a straight line and be smooth on the brakes or the rear end will kick out on you. This happens to the Evo also but way easier to manage. So far the GTS AMG is my favorite car to drive it can bite sometimes though. I don't have all the cars either so I can only comment on the cars I have.

All the talk of the TT S being unruly under braking has me a little curious about the underlying physics engine at worst, or just the BoP PD has applied at best. Not a single review of the new car calls it up for being a twitchy, unpredictable drive — quite the opposite — so it really doesn't jive. I don't doubt those that are saying it, though: it's looked like a handful around Willow Springs.

I have the TTS and built a bit of a tune for it yesterday. LSD has a big impact on car behavior. Generally, I don't find having to brake in a straight line to be a bad thing. Try braking at the limit with the wheel turned on a track and see what happens to you IRL.

For the TTS specifically, I believe I set front LSD to 8/50/8 and rear to 5/25/5. If has a nice little bit of mid corner rotation that's totally manageable for me.

General direction on tuning -

• Front Ride height Min - Rear Max. Generally, the ride height bug seems to be fixed. This will loosen the car, going higher in the front will tighten it. Even ride height is in between those extremes.
  
• Brake bias to -1. -2 will make the car very skittery when trail braking, but -1 helps with initial rotation.
  
• Up one click on front Stabilizer Bar. I did this in the Audi, but for the VW I set the front to 4 or 5 and the rear to 2.
  
• Raise front spring rates and dampers (I believe dampers at around 5), lower rear spring rates, lower rear dampers to 1. I put the front springs close to the center of the slider, the rear at around 25% of the slider.
  
• Front camber of around 2.0, rear camber of around 1-1.5, depending on your style
• Front Toe zero, rear toe -0.08. A range of -0.05 to -0.10 is effective in general.
• LSD - They seem to have fixed the accel setting, where a higher number actually means more grip now. It was the other way on GT6. So I was using 8/50/8 in the VW. I think up around 40 in RWD cars, otherwise they present with a fair bit of understeer. I believe 40 is default, and it seems pretty good on the RWD Gr.3 Cars.

Those are general direction for an FF or AWD car to get improved mid corner rotation and stability. I spent about an hour tuning the Scirocco at Big Willow yesterday and got down to the low 1:22's for qualifying and mid 1:22's in race. The car sucks at launching, so I normally would start on pole, lose 4 spots at the start, and then get them back again. I got my first couple wins in that combo, and then also won a race at the Ring in the C7 Gr.3. Really like the C7.

At Willow, I ended up unintentionally punting a guy in a SLS AMG when he decided I was a good apex for him to use in the final turn when I got full overlap and attempted a clean pass. Then he decided to send me a nastygram on PSN.

Not a fan of these public lobbies.

 

[JDMKING13]

All the talk of the TT S being unruly under braking has me a little curious about the underlying physics engine at worst, or just the BoP PD has applied at best. Not a single review of the new car calls it up for being a twitchy, unpredictable drive — quite the opposite — so it really doesn't jive. I don't doubt those that are saying it, though: it's looked like a handful around Willow Springs.

The smoother you are with the brakes the car will stay stable. I actually like it and this is not only for the Audi TTS but in the N class the Audi tts is the least balance out of my three cars. GT6 was terrible with ABS on in my opinion, it was like super ABS keeping the car super stable even under the worst braking conditions. Only when ABS was off in GT6 the cars behaved realistic with bad braking techniques. This is no more of a problem in GTS if you have bad technique braking you will definitely upset the car resulting in a crash or slower lap time. Feels no diffrent from AC and PCars.

@EDK I agree with you big time with braking in a straight line, What I was trying to explain is you cannot brake like you did in GT6 in GTS. It will upset the cars balance this did not happen in GT6 unless ABS was off. I agree what you said though and im going to look into the LSD tunning. What is also crazy is doing TT on brands arcade mode, with both the Evo and TTS on CM tires im actually faster with the TTS. The problem is im just more on edge with it. The Evo feels like it is more track friendly.

 

[EDK]

The smoother you are with the brakes the car will stay stable. I actually like it and this is not only for the Audi TTS but in the N class the Audi tts is the least balance out of my three cars. GT6 was terrible with ABS on in my opinion, it was like super ABS keeping the car super stable even under the worst braking conditions. Only when ABS was off in GT6 the cars behaved realistic with bad braking techniques. This is no more of a problem in GTS if you have bad technique braking you will definitely upset the car resulting in a crash or slower lap time. Feels no diffrent from AC and PCars.

I find the braking distances to be much shorter and the tires to be less sensitive to partial braking on GTS.

Some of it is probably that the cars have a bit too much tire. The Gr.4 FF cars should probably be on SS tires, the N300 cars should probably be on Comfort Soft. So that might be part of what I am experiencing.

@EDK
Just and idea as to why more ride height with the type of cars I mentioned and working with zero camber in GT5/6; I think PD must have decided to just put A LOT of camber change into all the cars to simplify things otherwise you would have ended up with some nasty handling which would be difficult for many without experience to resolve. In reality you would set the car up with much more negative camber which would be easy to monitor with further adjustments.

Just wondering what PD have done this time around though.

How many setup saves are there BTW? Thanks.

Sorry that I just got around to replying to this, yesterday was the first time I got after tuning in earnest.

It looks like you can save up to 8 different setups for each car, that's pretty good!

I also made this post, which gives some general direction on how the tuning is working.

@EDK I agree with you big time with braking in a straight line, What I was trying to explain is you cannot brake like you did in GT6 in GTS. It will upset the cars balance this did not happen in GT6 unless ABS was off. I agree what you said though and im going to look into the LSD tunning. What is also crazy is doing TT on brands arcade mode, with both the Evo and TTS on CM tires im actually faster with the TTS. The problem is im just more on edge with it. The Evo feels like it is more track friendly.

I don't have the Lancer, but I have heard it is very forgiving. I have just 2 road cars, and about 15,000 Gr.3 cars.

Turn 1 at Brands is exactly what you are saying. You can't turn and brake the TT there, you simply won't make the corner. I have to stay much further to the outside and brake in a straight line for Paddock Hill bend, it's much much different from the technique I would use there on GT6.

 

[JDMKING13]

I find the braking distances to be much shorter and the tires to be less sensitive to partial braking on GTS.

Some of it is probably that the cars have a bit too much tire. The Gr.4 FF cars should probably be on SS tires, the N300 cars should probably be on Comfort Soft. So that might be part of what I am experiencing.

Yea I normally TT with any Gr.4 With SSS tires and N300 with CM for like the ST EVO TTS CS for the Evora or any high end car. I dont know what im going to equipment the CSS with though I haven't even drove on them yet.

 

[EDK]

I have the TTS and built a bit of a tune for it yesterday. LSD has a big impact on car behavior. Generally, I don't find having to brake in a straight line to be a bad thing. Try braking at the limit with the wheel turned on a track and see what happens to you IRL.

For the TTS specifically, I believe I set front LSD to 8/50/8 and rear to 5/25/5. If has a nice little bit of mid corner rotation that's totally manageable for me.

General direction on tuning -

• Front Ride height Min - Rear Max. Generally, the ride height bug seems to be fixed. This will loosen the car, going higher in the front will tighten it. Even ride height is in between those extremes.
  
• Brake bias to -1. -2 will make the car very skittery when trail braking, but -1 helps with initial rotation.
  
• Up one click on front Stabilizer Bar. I did this in the Audi, but for the VW I set the front to 4 or 5 and the rear to 2.
  
• Raise front spring rates and dampers (I believe dampers at around 5), lower rear spring rates, lower rear dampers to 1. I put the front springs close to the center of the slider, the rear at around 25% of the slider.
  
• Front camber of around 2.0, rear camber of around 1-1.5, depending on your style
• Front Toe zero, rear toe -0.08. A range of -0.05 to -0.10 is effective in general.
• LSD - They seem to have fixed the accel setting, where a higher number actually means more grip now. It was the other way on GT6. So I was using 8/50/8 in the VW. I think up around 40 in RWD cars, otherwise they present with a fair bit of understeer. I believe 40 is default, and it seems pretty good on the RWD Gr.3 Cars.

Those are general direction for an FF or AWD car to get improved mid corner rotation and stability. I spent about an hour tuning the Scirocco at Big Willow yesterday and got down to the low 1:22's for qualifying and mid 1:22's in race. The car sucks at launching, so I normally would start on pole, lose 4 spots at the start, and then get them back again. I got my first couple wins in that combo, and then also won a race at the Ring in the C7 Gr.3. Really like the C7.

At Willow, I ended up unintentionally punting a guy in a SLS AMG when he decided I was a good apex for him to use in the final turn when I got full overlap and attempted a clean pass. Then he decided to send me a nastygram on PSN.

Not a fan of these public lobbies.

Forgot to mention, for the race cars, I am running max aero. Anecdotally, I have heard that the straightline speed advantage is not enough to offset the loss of mid corner speed. On GT6, you would end up with crazy extremes at times, front max, rear min. I could see lowering rear to balance the car, but I think max front is the way to go.

Also did not talk about trans. I made a trans tune for the Audi that was the old Final far right, top speed far left, and then make a close ratio trans trick. It seems fine, but does not provide quite the advantage you used to get. I think in general just setting the gears where you want them to optimize for launch and corner speeds will work fine.

 

[GT6champNK_69]

I have the TTS and built a bit of a tune for it yesterday. LSD has a big impact on car behavior. Generally, I don't find having to brake in a straight line to be a bad thing. Try braking at the limit with the wheel turned on a track and see what happens to you IRL.

For the TTS specifically, I believe I set front LSD to 8/50/8 and rear to 5/25/5. If has a nice little bit of mid corner rotation that's totally manageable for me.

General direction on tuning -

• Front Ride height Min - Rear Max. Generally, the ride height bug seems to be fixed. This will loosen the car, going higher in the front will tighten it. Even ride height is in between those extremes.
  
• Brake bias to -1. -2 will make the car very skittery when trail braking, but -1 helps with initial rotation.
  
• Up one click on front Stabilizer Bar. I did this in the Audi, but for the VW I set the front to 4 or 5 and the rear to 2.
  
• Raise front spring rates and dampers (I believe dampers at around 5), lower rear spring rates, lower rear dampers to 1. I put the front springs close to the center of the slider, the rear at around 25% of the slider.
  
• Front camber of around 2.0, rear camber of around 1-1.5, depending on your style
• Front Toe zero, rear toe -0.08. A range of -0.05 to -0.10 is effective in general.
• LSD - They seem to have fixed the accel setting, where a higher number actually means more grip now. It was the other way on GT6. So I was using 8/50/8 in the VW. I think up around 40 in RWD cars, otherwise they present with a fair bit of understeer. I believe 40 is default, and it seems pretty good on the RWD Gr.3 Cars.

Those are general direction for an FF or AWD car to get improved mid corner rotation and stability. I spent about an hour tuning the Scirocco at Big Willow yesterday and got down to the low 1:22's for qualifying and mid 1:22's in race. The car sucks at launching, so I normally would start on pole, lose 4 spots at the start, and then get them back again. I got my first couple wins in that combo, and then also won a race at the Ring in the C7 Gr.3. Really like the C7.

At Willow, I ended up unintentionally punting a guy in a SLS AMG when he decided I was a good apex for him to use in the final turn when I got full overlap and attempted a clean pass. Then he decided to send me a nastygram on PSN.

Not a fan of these public lobbies.

Hi EDK, just looked through your post:tup:. That is certainly very interesting, I will keep your setups in mind, when I'm hopefully lucky to get my hands in the beta. A remark on the rear toe value EDK, I do believe that you could easily go as high as -0.20, or -0.22, and use -0.08 on the front.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Try braking at the limit with the wheel turned on a track and see what happens to you IRL.

Heh, I learned what happens there with my old Integra on a back road shortly after getting my license.

I'm glad we can't be ham-fisted without consequence in GT Sport. I wish I could try the TTS to see exactly how wayward it is though: the impression I'm getting from people is that it gets very hard to handle if you do anything other than brake in a completely straight line, which just seems a little excessive to me based on modern reviews. Though I do wish we got a better idea of how exactly PD is balancing cars: I'm not sure if people are seeing this with the bone-stock model, or the BoP'd one.

The Focus has become a favourite of mine in the class, simply because of being able to sling it in off-throttle or with a quick jab of the brakes. I've set it up remarkably similar to what you mentioned there. 👍

At Willow, I ended up unintentionally punting a guy in a SLS AMG when he decided I was a good apex for him to use in the final turn when I got full overlap and attempted a clean pass. Then he decided to send me a nastygram on PSN.

Not a fan of these public lobbies.

Ugh, last night was a wash for me. Had a great first race in N300 at Willow despite no qualifier, where I was able to finish higher up solely due to others' errors. Unfortunately, it seems like a fair amount of people don't understand sharing track space. Heading into the final two turns, I gave a guy space on the outside since I could see he had a slight run on me, and yet turning in, he acted as if my car wasn't even there. He wasn't level with me, either: his front wheels weren't even quite lined up with my rears. I was even maintaining an inside-only line just in case!

Had two good races with @Vendrah at the 'Ring to end the night, but watched a fellow GTPlanet member utterly divebomb him going into the final corners. This person then ran super-wide on the last corner and rammed me getting back onto the track, too. Just unfortunate.

On the plus side, the terribleness of FM6 public lobbies has at least prepared me for online racing stupidity.

 

[EDK]

Hi EDK, just looked through your post:tup:. That is certainly very interesting, I will keep your setups in mind, when I'm hopefully lucky to get my hands in the beta. A remark on the rear toe value EDK, I do believe that you could easily go as high as -0.20, or -0.22, and use -0.08 on the front.

I don't like what adjusting front toe to anything other than zero does for the car feel on turn in. I am very sensitive to turn in accuracy, and I normally have avoided anything other than zero at all costs (due to my driving style and preference).

For rear, you are right. And in the FF VW, I tried as high as -0.25 yesterday when setting up the tune. But it seemed to take away a bit of stability and did not make me faster, so I dropped it back down.

 

[Fredzy]

I got my first couple wins in that combo, and then also won a race at the Ring in the C7 Gr.3. Really like the C7.

You're using 8/40/8 LSD with Corvette, correct? I never tried settings like that. What was your fastest Gr.3 qualifying lap at Nords, and could you share any of you other suspension setup?

Basically I'm stuck at 10+ seconds off the fastest times and really uncertain how much effort I should be putting into tuning. Not sure if I'll get another swing at it now, but still curious.

 

[EDK]

You're using 8/40/8 LSD with Corvette, correct? I never tried settings like that. What was your fastest Gr.3 qualifying lap at Nords, and could you share any of you other suspension setup?

Basically I'm stuck at 10+ seconds off the fastest times and really uncertain how much effort I should be putting into tuning. Not sure if I'll get another swing at it now, but still curious.

I had a 6:57 in the Vette, I believe. That was with a mistake, not a full spin but a near off. I think if I practiced for an hour I would have been in the 6:45 range.

I changed top speed on the slider to 204 MPH, I believe. And yes, 8/40/8 for LSD.

I would have gone -1 with brake bias, but I don't think I changed any other suspension settings from stock. I did not have a bunch of time to tune the car, will likely dive into FR during the week.

 

[Fredzy]

I had a 6:57 in the Vette, I believe. That was with a mistake, not a full spin but a near off. I think if I practiced for an hour I would have been in the 6:45 range.

I changed top speed on the slider to 204 MPH, I believe. And yes, 8/40/8 for LSD.

I would have gone -1 with brake bias, but I don't think I changed any other suspension settings from stock. I did not have a bunch of time to tune the car, will likely dive into FR during the week.

Thanks a lot. My fastest time so far was 6:47 in the 4C, and I haven't been able to do better with any of the other cars that people are getting into the mid-30's with like Mustang or the Benz. I know I'm leaving tenths here and there but just can't see it adding up to 10+ seconds. I'm about flat through all the fast sweepers, nailing entry onto the big straights, cutting curbs in ways you never ever could in reality.

It's getting so far away from realistic for me I can't help thinking "HAH, definitely can't do that there" about 20 times per lap.

 

[Vendrah]

Heh, I learned what happens there with my old Integra on a back road shortly after getting my license.

I'm glad we can't be ham-fisted without consequence in GT Sport. I wish I could try the TTS to see exactly how wayward it is though: the impression I'm getting from people is that it gets very hard to handle if you do anything other than brake in a completely straight line, which just seems a little excessive to me based on modern reviews. Though I do wish we got a better idea of how exactly PD is balancing cars: I'm not sure if people are seeing this with the bone-stock model, or the BoP'd one.

The Focus has become a favourite of mine in the class, simply because of being able to sling it in off-throttle or with a quick jab of the brakes. I've set it up remarkably similar to what you mentioned there. 👍



Ugh, last night was a wash for me. Had a great first race in N300 at Willow despite no qualifier, where I was able to finish higher up solely due to others' errors. Unfortunately, it seems like a fair amount of people don't understand sharing track space. Heading into the final two turns, I gave a guy space on the outside since I could see he had a slight run on me, and yet turning in, he acted as if my car wasn't even there. He wasn't level with me, either: his front wheels weren't even quite lined up with my rears. I was even maintaining an inside-only line just in case!

Had two good races with @Vendrah at the 'Ring to end the night, but watched a fellow GTPlanet member utterly divebomb him going into the final corners. This person then ran super-wide on the last corner and rammed me getting back onto the track, too. Just unfortunate.

On the plus side, the terribleness of FM6 public lobbies has at least prepared me for online racing stupidity.

Sorry for being a bit off topic... I don't now if you are going to believe but I've had some messages with the guy and he believed he was quite right doing that because that was "aggressive" driving, and he said I was practicing it. I won't deny that I get aggressive at Nurburgring and Tokyo, but what he did was way beyond of being aggressive, it wasn't fair.

Although I say that PD system isn't bad, I hate public lobby's with passion, in GT6 and Project Cars, GT5 too.. but these on GT Sport are interesting ones, especially the C lobbies. In normal public lobby's a little bit less of half of the opponents aren't fair, while a good room in GT Sport, even if D, it has one or two "do whatever you can to get to the finish first" people. However, I think that they should try to relate SR with DR, everyone on C should had at least 30 SR, or maybe even 40 or 50.

 

[z06fun]

I've been trying to add links to the first post, of the various posts regarding tuning response etc. Let me know if there are more that could be added.

I got to spend a good amount of time at the ring finally. Has anyone noticed that the first carousel is almost undrivable in some cars, if you use the banked section? Seems like it gives the car massive "front only" increased grip on some cars, usually happens part way through. The only way I can semi reliably get through is to stay way up near the top, even then its very sketchy. Its bizzarre because its extremely low speed, does not feel right at all. I've only really tried N300 and Gr4 cars so far here though.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Any noticeable improvements from updated tyre model?

 

[Lord Protector]

Any noticeable improvements from updated tyre model?

Yeah, nothing??

 

[diesel97]

Yeah, nothing??

I say that new dirt track had half dirt and half grass I wonder if they're is any grip difference?

 

[z06fun]

The 1.04 tire model definitely feels different. I can't get close to the 8:02 time I ran on the ring last night with Evo. Definitely less grip and car is loose compared to v1.0. Need to try other cars

 

[SlipZtrEm]

The 1.04 tire model definitely feels different. I can't get close to the 8:02 time I ran on the ring last night with Evo. Definitely less grip and car is loose compared to v1.0. Need to try other cars

Yeah, it looks like times set pre-update can't be matched. Wonder why a leaderboard wipe didn't accompany this.

 

[GTP_Patrick1]

The 1.04 tire model definitely feels different. I can't get close to the 8:02 time I ran on the ring last night with Evo. Definitely less grip and car is loose compared to v1.0. Need to try other cars

I felt the same way driving my Genesis at the Ring tonight. The car felt like it had a less grip than before the update. Could just be me, but within a few minutes, I felt like something was different.

 

[suprajef]

I felt the same way driving my Genesis at the Ring tonight. The car felt like it had a less grip than before the update. Could just be me, but within a few minutes, I felt like something was different.

It definitely changed, I had no major mistakes and was 3 seconds off. The car was way loose and very twitchy, couldn't take high speed corners as fast either

 

[Marcus Garvey]

Just a couple of laps on the new update and 👍. While not enough time to make judgement on the degree of the movement; enough time to opine that said movement is made in the right direction.

 

[Lord Protector]

Maybe PD listened to beta physics forum

 

[Fredzy]

It definitely changed, I had no major mistakes and was 3 seconds off. The car was way loose and very twitchy, couldn't take high speed corners as fast either

Same story here, 2-3 sec slower on the 'ring and the high speed corners is where it's most noticeable. MUCH less forgiving with cornering while braking. A big turn toward more realistic really.