GT Sport physics thread

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Reds Deman
Most sim tyre models are a mess though , i'm not defending GTS , but where do we start and stop with this discussion . I've not played a single game that gets it all completely right . GTS is one of the worst in fact , the grip loss is bloody awful when braking to be fair .
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No sim is perfect and they all successfully simulate the real world to a measurable degree. I would agree that GTS is one of the worst. We start and stop the discussion by comparing some real world examples we can all agree on. Most of us will have driven a FWD drive car for example and most of us will have driven them hard. Quite a few of us will have experienced understeer in a FWD car. So we should be able to talk about how the way Civic Type R behaves, particularly the front tyres, in the current Sport mode race around Brands Hatch is so far from reality that it's not even funny. Gamer Muscle had it right in his review. When the car begins to understeer it's like the front tyres magically get a 4 inch layer of soap on them.
 
Has anyonr tried setting a "real life" lap around Nordschleife? I did in a few cars that have official lap times and I can't match it at all. I'm always at least 10 seconds slower in the game, even with SS tyres. Speaking of Civic Type R, it has an official time 7:50 and I do around 8:20 and top speed in the official video is 270 I barely do 250 so either auto manufacturers lie like hell or PD did something horribly wrong.
 
PzR Slim
No sim is perfect and they all successfully simulate the real world to a measurable degree. I would agree that GTS is one of the worst. We start and stop the discussion by comparing some real world examples we can all agree on. Most of us will have driven a FWD drive car for example and most of us will have driven them hard. Quite a few of us will have experienced understeer in a FWD car. So we should be able to talk about how the way Civic Type R behaves, particularly the front tyres, in the current Sport mode race around Brands Hatch is so far from reality that it's not even funny. Gamer Muscle had it right in his review. When the car begins to understeer it's like the front tyres magically get a 4 inch layer of soap on them.
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I wouldnt argue that to be fair , that thing will not turn . I just enjoy a good racing game and i tend to overlook the " ideosincracy " whatever the bloody word is . Project cars is next on my horizon if i can find a good online race for it . failing that , it's back to I racing an dropping more cash .
 
Reds Deman
I wouldnt argue that to be fair , that thing will not turn . I just enjoy a good racing game and i tend to overlook the " ideosincracy " whatever the bloody word is . Project cars is next on my horizon if i can find a good online race for it . failing that , it's back to I racing an dropping more cash .
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The ESL comp for PC2 is starting this weekend on all three platforms.
 
Reds Deman
I got Pc is PC2 much better than PC ? What is the comparison ?
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I enjoyed PC a lot but PC2 is a significant improvement on the first in many many areas. I would also imagine most of the online leagues will have moved over to PC2 so you may struggle to find a league running PC events.
 
I don't think the physics are that bad. It's not a perfect simulation but I don't have many issues figuring out what's going on. Only played with sticks so far,haven't set up my rig. Only issue with the sticks I have is some difficulty catching slides, but I'm getting better at it. I think it's a decent start to physics for online competitive play.
 
polizei
I don't think the physics are that bad. It's not a perfect simulation but I don't have many issues figuring out what's going on. Only played with sticks so far,haven't set up my rig. Only issue with the sticks I have is some difficulty catching slides, but I'm getting better at it. I think it's a decent start to physics for online competitive play.
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That's because counter steering is borked with a controller. It's and issue PD have acknowledged and have promised to fix in an upcoming patch, hopefully the next one.
 
PzR Slim
I enjoyed PC a lot but PC2 is a significant improvement on the first in many many areas. I would also imagine most of the online leagues will have moved over to PC2 so you may struggle to find a league running PC events.
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PC2 has some of the best force feedback I've felt when using my OSW Direct Drive with 260mm momo wheel attached. Even better than iRacing. Driving the Indycar around Long Beach is simply incredible. You can feel the tires fighting for grip as the tire walls flex. It's 100% better than PC1. You're not going to get that level of physics and force feedback on a console. There simply isn't enough computing power to do that and maintain 60 fps.
 
Really disappointing to come along and check up on this game across the net, only to hear that it still seems to suffer from some of the same physics and tire model issues that the old games had. I'd pick up a PS4 to try the game out for myself but the lack of content/single player is a no go for me and is definitely not worth the price of a console on top of the game and PS+ subscription.


Scalman2
Its very simple . take same ds4 controller and try play some assetto corsa with it eith default settings with some bmw m3 m4. And see how you will do . even after hrs of tweaking that controller it was terrible feeling of car rly. Yes i can drive car there and make ok lap but i must adapt to style that car csnt slide ever or you cant make mistakes because game just kills you and its not fun.
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steefpeef
I spent most of my time with AC on controller (sometimes when family permits g29 on wheelstand) in the past ... and i feel what you are saying. After a while i found out for myself that i had to find car's in AC that i didn't have to fight (E30, mx5 club, tt-cup,elise, 4c, 190tc, 155tc and so on) with these car's and no assists (ok, factory) i had to find a groove and after a while i was able to run clean and satisfying (hot-)laps on Nordschleife...
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What on Earth did you guys do to your controller settings? I have driven most of the racing games out there on a controller and nothing can touch AC. I suggest going back and trying different settings. I could give you mine but I'm on PC, so I don't know how that will translate to the console version. Not trying to sound patronising either, but pedal input is just as important as the steering. Even on a controller, AC just translates something to me and I know and sense exactly what's happening all the time.

You can deal with snappy and/or tail happy cars just fine.
 
XXI
My wheel started vibrating violently during understeer, and we can't adjust tire pressure.

The end.
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If you are using the wheel in your pic, it's not officially supported. GT has never supported tire pressure.

The end.


Jerome
 
Reds Deman
Most sim tyre models are a mess though , i'm not defending GTS , but where do we start and stop with this discussion . I've not played a single game that gets it all completely right . GTS is one of the worst in fact , the grip loss is bloody awful when braking to be fair .
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A lot of racing sim developers collaborate with tire manufacturers to get accurate data. I think Forza Motorsport 5 had a tire model which was developed with Pirelli, and it was very good! Unfortunately, Forza has terrible wheel support, but the underlying physics model is very good.

SMS also worked with Pirelli for PCars2's tire model, and it's probably the best in the current racing sim market. They also hired a lot of real-life race car drivers to get feedback on their implementation.

PD, on the other hand, seems to have developed the GTS physics in isolation, without consulting car physics experts. They only had a few RL race drivers involved for marketing purposes at the end of the project, but I doubt any of them had any input during development of the physics system.

MaXKiLLz
PC2 has some of the best force feedback I've felt when using my OSW Direct Drive with 260mm momo wheel attached. Even better than iRacing. Driving the Indycar around Long Beach is simply incredible. You can feel the tires fighting for grip as the tire walls flex. It's 100% better than PC1. You're not going to get that level of physics and force feedback on a console. There simply isn't enough computing power to do that and maintain 60 fps.
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Wrong. PCars2's physics engine runs at 600 Hz both on PC and consoles. There's no difference at all to the physics engine. You'll get smoother frame-rates on PC, though, if you've got the hardware.
 
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If your wheel chatters during understeer, try reducing the FFB number values a bit at a time. Consider trying all three FFB types.
 
Ledbetter
If your wheel chatters during understeer, try reducing the FFB number values a bit at a time. Consider trying all three FFB types.
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GT Sport only has one FFB type that I have tried at 1/1 on the T150.

It is linear, smooth and center zeroes out nicely.

There is little to no feedback from the tire model/track which is causing the car to feel like it's gliding across the surface.

Which makes me want to rename this GT Sport the real flight simulator as they would have nailed the feeling of ailerons and rudders during fast pitch aerial maneuvers.
 
Just got sls amg as gift car. And fall in love with it. I thought because of all that torque it will be uncontrolable but i was wrong so mucj. Its just perfect . all that torque just helps me manage car as i need. And accelersting from 3rd gear from corners makes sooo good sound .
Went to race AI and they droped big guns on me like mclarens, lambos and laferrari. And i catched them all and passed. Much better controlable car then m4.
So some cars just feel amazing when others too loose. Maybe they need to be as that
 
I have to agree with what quite a few have expressed here in this thread. The physics for GTS are not quite as detailed as AC, PCars2, etc, but is communicative enough to have a great time racing. Full on Sims tend to have a zero forgiveness factor, especially in contact and loss of grip situations. GTS imo is just alot of fun to get on a race among friends. Was a pleasant surprise to someone who is a huge AC fan.
 
So, after most of the campaign and some races, my view on the physics. I think overall it's not bad, the lateral grip seems to be at a good level, but there's definitely a lack of longitudinal grip, at least with comfort and sport tyres. Traction issues especially : with a NA Miata with 130hp I have hard times to make the rear wheels spin in 1st gear. The wheelspin the ND gets is way too much. Braking with ABS set to low is nice, but a bit too sensitive maybe (less dramatically though).
 
well its more forgiving then was GT6 . could take same car in GT6 now like sls amg and in GT6 it would just kill me first second it would start lose grip im gone. it feels like tires plays maybe biggest role now in GTS lets you catch your car rear in most cases . yes wheelspins maybe not too precise and HP power maybe not really feels that much. speed specially. i just cant believe im flying 180km/h in mx5 just before corner, because it feels like you going maximum 80 there.
i remember game were speed was fearsome and scary it was really uncomfortable feel and you realy was scared . it was in good old NFS SHift 2. and later it transitioned to PC i guess. but mostly i remember it from shift 2 game.
i would think sense of high speed should be scary , maybe camera shaking even some and view just blures. in GTS its just relaxed drive on sunday afternoon. birds flying and sun shines and im flying 250km/h and corner its just so close now... but i no feel it. i see numbers that tels me im going fast but i no feel much
 
but its high enough that you feel it. whats is different from not racetrack?. its just from bumper cam its more speed sense or bonet but not cockpit. and other games have better speed feeling too.
i drive just 60km/h and i feel speed i see it. i drive 80km/h and i see it too. here i no feel it visualy. thats problem. if you not know what speed you are before corner thats problem. duno how other race, i do it without any hud notin, and i no look at spido too. no time for that
 
its just fact that speed doesn't feel very well in GTS. we have other examples so its clear to compare . but im adapting to how GTS does it and im used to it. still it does not feel fast.
 
In the real world the sense of speed is like anything else, when you first experience it you are mentally trying to process reactions to things that your mind is not accustomed to dealing with in that fast of a paced environment which causes adrenaline to speed up your heart rate and breathing which does affect you physically.

As you continue to time after time to process things at say 150 mph you reach a point to where that those reactions and the mental processing become normal and the sense of going so fast fades.

Racing or going fast in the real world is much more a mental challenge rather than a physical challenge. As you grow used to the speeds you are running you mentally "get in the zone" and everything seems to slow down dramatically. A day at the track when you are dead in the zone the speed you feel and the way your mind and body reacts and stays relaxed is almost like taking a drive down the street to the grocery store.

I know for someone that has not experienced it it is hard to understand or comprehend the calmness you can experience running over 150 mph and hitting the braking zone at the end of the straight and slowing down as fast as possible to 60 mph. It really is a trip and a lot of fun!

Your best real world racers can tell you within about 3 miles per hour how fast they are running at any given time and with no instrumentation to give them that information. That is one of the reasons a world class racer can lap consistently and repeatedly at about a difference of only a couple of tenths per lap on even a 2.5 mile road coarse.
 
There seems to be something very odd with how the tyre model works. I just did a simple test using the MX5 at Blue Moon Speedway, firstly with Sports Hard tyres all round and then with Super Softs on the front and Sports Hard on the rear. With Sports Hard all round the car reacted how I expected, but with the Super Softs on the front it was very difficult (almost impossible) to drive while trying to accelerate in a straight line with the DS4. The rolling resistance of the Super Softs seemed far greater than the rears could deal with, and far greater than I'd expected in a straight line. I'm certainly no expert when it comes to this sort of thing, so can someone in the know please try this and see if they think it's way over the top too?

I came across this when I forgot to change the rears to race tyres :embarrassed: so decided to test further.
 
Scalman2
its just fact that speed doesn't feel very well in GTS. we have other examples so its clear to compare . but im adapting to how GTS does it and im used to it. still it does not feel fast.
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Hmm, I feel as though the sense of speed is fairly accurate. Like Alex says, it really doesn't look that fast IRL either.
 
Sense of speed is affected by several things in simple racing. FOV is a big one, sound another, motion blur, camera/world movement etc. In a game like GTS with few, if any, options to adjust sense of speed, you get what you get. Other games do a significantly better job of putting control of sense of speed into the hands of the player.
 
There were racing simulators in the arcade room at the shopping Malls before Gran Turismo came out. The physics in these simulators were much more realistic than most of these top simulators we talk about here (pcars/asseto ect.). Those older simulators had very poor 16bit graphics and very difficult to race for a typical gamer, however the feeling of driving in a real car was second to none. They featured real steering wheels, gear shifters and the seat would move around and bump perfectly in sync with the motion of the car. I'm sure if you wanted something like that set up in your living room today it would be costly. Gran Turismo is not as sophisticated as that simulator when it comes to physics; and neither is these other simulators available on consoles. Now, do i want the physics in GTS to be as sophisticated? yes. Do I expect it to be? No. For what GT Sport is it does it well.
 
CopperySinger
There were racing simulators in the arcade room at the shopping Malls before Gran Turismo came out. The physics in these simulators were much more realistic than most of these top simulators we talk about here (pcars/asseto ect.). Those older simulators had very poor 16bit graphics and very difficult to race for a typical gamer, however the feeling of driving in a real car was second to none. They featured real steering wheels, gear shifters and the seat would move around and bump perfectly in sync with the motion of the car. I'm sure if you wanted something like that set up in your living room today it would be costly. Gran Turismo is not as sophisticated as that simulator when it comes to physics; and neither is these other simulators available on consoles. Now, do i want the physics in GTS to be as sophisticated? yes. Do I expect it to be? No. For what GT Sport is it does it well.
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What's amazing is that you seem to actually believe this.
 

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