GT Sport vs Other Games: Comparison Video Thread

[sems4arsenal]

So you went through and manually counted the views on the hundreds of PCARS2 videos? What were the totals for each franchise?

Nope just which ones got the most views. IIRC the most a PCARS 2 video got was half a million views. GTS has 10+ videos with over a million.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Nope just which ones got the most views. IIRC the most a PCARS 2 video got was half a million views. GTS has 10+ videos with over a million.

So a statistically insignificant survey of a handful of videos on a platform with hundreds of them:tup:

 

[sems4arsenal]

So a statistically insignificant survey of a handful of videos on a platform with hundreds of them:tup:

It's a survey of how many people watched the trailers for certain games, hardly rocket science is it?

I don't care what other survey method you use. There is more interest in GTSport on Youtube than PCARS 2.

 

[AH49]

They indicate the number of people that give ratings for preorders, nothing more and nothing less.

My preorders for example. I could have put a rating up on the store for PC2, as I've ordered the digital version. I've not done so however as I don't rate titles I haven't played.

As such they are a poor indicator of the interest of the general public. Google search hits however are a good metric of public interest, which is why they are a well used tool for digital marketing.

I have to politely disagree. There's no reason to think certain games benefit from a higher percentage of buyers rating the game, if anything, that would increase the closer we are to release date. As someone who shops 100% on PSN, ratings have proved a good (relative) indicator of how successful a title has been at retail. A 7-1 difference between GT Sport and PCars 2 is what I would expect.

PCars 1 released at an opportune time with little competition on the PS4 side in particular. They burned a lot of bridges with bug and controller issues, and despite good PCars 2 reviews, that continues to be the major talking point on sites like Neogaf. When the totals are talied up, I expect the sequel to sell on par with the original.

PCARS 2 would/should be higher since it is launch month. Another metric is Youtube views. PCARS 2's views are nowhere near GTS or F7. How many RTs on Twitter or likes on Facebook by the official channels aren't close either. GT and Forza get lots more attention from sites like Jalopnik as well. Thread lengths on GAF are another metric..... I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.

A quick glance at the various official McLaren Vision GT Twitter accounts (including McLaren itself), shows interactions (RT's/Likes) in the thousands. It's all anecdotal, but I think I have a good handle on the state of play thanks to friends and general observations. The sim crowd have three great options, but it's not the likes of who will generate the big sales.

 

[FPV MIC]

*Snip*

PCars 1 released at an opportune time with little competition on the PS4 side in particular. They burned a lot of bridges with bug and controller issues, and despite good PCars 2 reviews, that continues to be the major talking point on sites like Neogaf. When the totals are talied up, I expect the sequel to sell on par with the original.

I think this is a fairly accurate assumption, and after reading things like in the image below I have little faith things have changed for PCars 2.

From SpotTheOzzie's live stream on 19 Sep 2017

Edit: I'll still buy PCars 2, just not yet.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's a survey of how many people watched the trailers for certain games, hardly rocket science is it?

I don't care what other survey method you use. There is more interest in GTSport on Youtube than PCARS 2.

You surveyed a tiny slice of the videos available so you cannot draw any definitive conclusions. Your broad statement that there is more interest in GTSport on YT is completely unprovable without surveying all the videos available. You didn't, so the statement is completely without merit.

I think this is a fairly accurate assumption, and after reading things like in the image below I have little faith things have changed for PCars 2.View attachment 674058
From SpotTheOzzie's live stream on 19 Sep 2017

Edit: I'll still buy PCars 2, just not yet.

No game is perfect. Not sure why a developer making an honest statement like that would turn someone off. Perhaps you'd rather they lied and said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[FPV MIC]

No game is perfect. Not sure why a developer making an honest statement like that would turn someone off. Perhaps you'd rather they lied and said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Once bitten...

Like I said, I'll get it later.... but after all the patches are done with.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Once bitten...

Like I said, I'll get it later.... but after all the patches are done with.

I guarantee it still won't be perfect then either

 

[cutmeamango]

Your broad statement that there is more interest in GTSport on YT is completely unprovable WITHOUT SURVEYING ALL THE VIDEOS AVAILABLE. You didn't, so the statement is completely without merit.

Even if you were "surveying", you wouldn't need all. That's statistics 101.

But if you really just want to know if X or Y is higher you can, given they are both finite sets with more than likely similar distributions, with elements already sorted in descending order: Just find their min, max and quartiles and approximate the sum of the curve area with rectangles (forgot the name of this).

The result won't differ from the common sense approach @sems4arsenal had though.

[...] the statement is completely without merit.

Oh...

Using iRacing as a model also has its issues, given that it has I believe around 60k active users, if that's all it can attract then GTS will not succeed on the same model at all.
[...]
The only factor that I can see PD and Sony using in this regard is that historically for GT the 5% and 10% are much larger pools of people

Two extremely flawed statements and conclusions.
iRacing has 60k subscribers > GTS has similar matchmaking structure > GTS might only attract 60k users.
10% have Online trophies > 10% at max like racing online > 10% is the ceiling for online.

Johnnypenso liked this post.

 

[Scaff]

Don't think you can. Next best thing is search (for example PCARS 2 trailer) and sort by views.

You can and I've done it for youtube (it actually has a great analytics tool set) based on the official channels for both GTTV has been runnin four years longer and has twice as many views, twice as many subs, but is growing subs significantly slower than the official Project Cars channel. However given that we should (based on last title sales) have a 2:7 ration in favour of GTS, which we don't see.

Now to look at wider video views I used a quick google battle look-up using the terms 'Gran Turismo Sport youtube' and 'Project Cars 2 youtube'; the results of that were more than a little one sided. GTS clocks in 3,160,000 hits, while PC2 hits 10,700,000. Not a massive surprise to me however given that PC2 has been in closed beta for a long time and SMS opened the flood gates on user generated content a month ago.

Even if you were "surveying", you wouldn't need all. That's statistics 101.

But if you really just want to know if X or Y is higher you can, given they are both finite sets with more than likely similar distributions, with elements already sorted in descending order: Just find their min, max and quartiles and approximate the sum of the curve area with rectangles (forgot the name of this).

The result won't differ from the common sense approach @sems4arsenal had though.

Seems they do however, which can be the problem if your sample set is too small or narrow.

Two extremely flawed statements and conclusions.
iRacing has 60k subscribers > GTS has similar matchmaking structure > GTS might only attract 60k users.
10% have Online trophies > 10% at max like racing online > 10% is the ceiling for online.

Good job I never made either those statements or conclusions.

I have in fact said quite the opposite in regard to the first one (that PD may be looking at the fact that with an average larger sales volume they would get more due to the 10% of GT sales being larger).

In regard to the second one I'm not sure why you are disputing Sony's own data that shows that on average 90% of racing title buyers don't play online on the PS4? You do know that trophies autosynch on the PS4 and that gives us access to the largest data set of online activity we can hope for?

Is that the max? No because its an average. F1 2016 is one of the few titles that breaks that mold, with closer to 20% of buyers going online, its retention rate is still roughly half that. However its an outlier in that regard.

So please don't make assumptions or put words in my mouth, if you are unsure of the actual statements and conclusions I am making just ask.

You see I have repeatedly said that I hope that I'm wrong in this regard, and even gone to the length of putting a 'call to action' video up on my channel that says exactly that, also calling for those in the 5% to do more to encourage the 90% to take part and join in, saying I will be doing exactly that for both PC2 and GTS!

Johnnypenso liked this post.

Which has nothing to do with anything at all.

I have to politely disagree. There's no reason to think certain games benefit from a higher percentage of buyers rating the game, if anything, that would increase the closer we are to release date. As someone who shops 100% on PSN, ratings have proved a good (relative) indicator of how successful a title has been at retail. A 7-1 difference between GT Sport and PCars 2 is what I would expect.

PCars 1 released at an opportune time with little competition on the PS4 side in particular. They burned a lot of bridges with bug and controller issues, and despite good PCars 2 reviews, that continues to be the major talking point on sites like Neogaf. When the totals are talied up, I expect the sequel to sell on par with the original.

Feel free to do so. However without knowing what the ratio of ratings to pre-orders for each is and being able to compare it to the average rating to pre-order ratio is at best inaccurate and as worst utterly missleading.

 

[FPV MIC]

I guarantee it still won't be perfect then either

Yeah I know that, but it will be a lot cheaper and probably a ****load less frustrating

 

[Tassie_tiger]

You can and I've done it for youtube (it actually has a great analytics tool set) based on the official channels for both GTTV has been runnin four years longer and has twice as many views, twice as many subs, but is growing subs significantly slower than the official Project Cars channel. However given that we should (based on last title sales) have a 2:7 ration in favour of GTS, which we don't see.

Now to look at wider video views I used a quick google battle look-up using the terms 'Gran Turismo Sport youtube' and 'Project Cars 2 youtube'; the results of that were more than a little one sided. GTS clocks in 3,160,000 hits, while PC2 hits 10,700,000. Not a massive surprise to me however given that PC2 has been in closed beta for a long time and SMS opened the flood gates on user generated content a month ago.

The thing I find with the internet though is that if you use "Gran Turismo" or "GT" you get different results.

Things like this.


 

[Scaff]

The thing I find with the internet though is that if you use "Gran Turismo" or "GT" you get different results.

Things like this.


You mean like this

http://www.googlebattle.com/?domain=gt+sport+youtube&domain2=pc+2+youtube&submit=Go!

The problem with the search you did was that you only made one of the search terms more generic, GT is going to get more hits that Gran Turismo, just like PC is going to get more hits than Project Cars.

Using the abbreviated form of either is going to get a lot more false positives that using the full words, which is why is used the full names rather than an abbreviated bias in favor of one or the other.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

You mean like this

http://www.googlebattle.com/?domain=gt+sport+youtube&domain2=pc+2+youtube&submit=Go!

View attachment 674108

The problem with the search you did was that you only made one of the search terms more generic, GT is going to get more hits that Gran Turismo, just like PC is going to get more hits than Project Cars.

Using the abbreviated form of either is going to get a lot more false positives that using the full words, which is why is used the full names rather than an abbreviated bias in favor of one or the other.

Sure.
And "pc2" youtube(without the space) brings in only 1.2 mill instead of 188mill.

As I mentioned, depending what you type changes everything.
And people search for the same thing in many ways.
Personally I wouldn't count any of those results as reliable.

 

[NLxAROSA]

You can play FIFA or COD offline and have fun. They have campaigns / career modes and, especially FIFA, a great deal of re-playability. Not to mention that FIFA sells a lot because it's one of those games you can have fun with your mates at home and you don't even need to play online or the career mode - just have it on the shelve for when the party comes.

FIFA is extremely easy to get into; anyone can play it. On top of that football is way more popular among the general population than racing (at least in EU, but I suppose on the other side of the pond it's different sports like NFL or NBA). We have a PS4 at work and almost everyone has played a match or two during breaks, even people with no gaming experience and/or no gaming hardware whatsoever at home. It's so easy to jump in. I just don't see the same happening for GT:S (or any racing game). Football is just way more popular.

 

[cutmeamango]

You can and I've done it for youtube (it actually has a great analytics tool set) based on the official channels for both GTTV has been runnin four years longer and has twice as many views, twice as many subs, but is growing subs significantly slower than the official Project Cars channel. However given that we should (based on last title sales) have a 2:7 ration in favour of GTS, which we don't see.

Now to look at wider video views I used a quick google battle look-up using the terms 'Gran Turismo Sport youtube' and 'Project Cars 2 youtube'; the results of that were more than a little one sided. GTS clocks in 3,160,000 hits, while PC2 hits 10,700,000. Not a massive surprise to me however given that PC2 has been in closed beta for a long time and SMS opened the flood gates on user generated content a month ago.

"project cars 2" site:youtube.com
"pcars2" site:youtube.com
"pcars 2" site:youtube.com

"gran turismo sport" site:youtube.com

"" for exact match.
site: for site.

If you bothered to click through the pages, you'd see that with your search string, by page 5 (the one I clicked, eh) results that have nothing to do to with Project CARS 2 or Youtube start showing up. Don't even want to know what happens by page 300!

Seems they do however, which can be the problem if your sample set is too small or narrow.

Seems they do when the methodology is flawed.

Good job I never made either those statements or conclusions.

I have in fact said quite the opposite in regard to the first one (that PD may be looking at the fact that with an average larger sales volume they would get more due to the 10% of GT sales being larger).

Yes, that's why I wrote "GTS might only attract 60k". It states a possibility, the one you raise:

Using iRacing as a model also has its issues, given that it has I believe around 60k active users, if that's all it can attract then GTS will not succeed on the same model at all.

• "Using iRacing model [...] has its issues" - [because of those issues] -> "only has 60k subscribers".
• If GTS uses iRacing model - [and has the same issues] -> they may only attract 60k : "if that's all it can attract" - [then] -> "GTS will not succeed".

The problem is not the number, it is how that is logically structured.

In regard to the second one I'm not sure why you are disputing Sony's own data that shows that on average 90% of racing title buyers don't play online on the PS4? You do know that trophies autosynch on the PS4 and that gives us access to the largest data set of online activity we can hope for?

Is that the max? No because its an average. F1 2016 is one of the few titles that breaks that mold, with closer to 20% of buyers going online, its retention rate is still roughly half that. However its an outlier in that regard.

I'm not disputing the data, I'm disputing the inferences and conclusion, as stated in my post.

You see I have repeatedly said that I hope that I'm wrong in this regard, and even gone to the length of putting a 'call to action' video up on my channel that says exactly that, also calling for those in the 5% to do more to encourage the 90% to take part and join in, saying I will be doing exactly that for both PC2 and GTS!

That's nice, really, me too. I wasn't judging your position on whether things should succeed or not, I was just...

Which has nothing to do with anything at all.

... Driving the point home that Johnnypenso tried to estabilish an absurd standard (sum all, survey all, that's not how any of this works!), saying the "statements are without merit", all while failing to perceive he "likes" posts that do not meet basic ones. I singled yours out because it was recent.

 

[Scaff]

Sure.
And "pc2" youtube(without the space) brings in only 1.2 mill instead of 188mill.

As I mentioned, depending what you type changes everything.
And people search for the same thing in many ways.
Personally I wouldn't count any of those results as reliable.

Take a look at what wording both of the official channels use, take a look at what all of the gaming sites refer to both as. They use the full names for both, the results for searches against those minimize as much as possible the false positives.

Its even possible to minimize the false positives totally and search for the whole phrases ("Gran Turismo Sport" and "Project Cars 2").

http://www.googlebattle.com/?domain="gran+turismo+sport"&domain2="project+Cars+2"&submit=Go!

"project cars 2" site:youtube.com
"pcars2" site:youtube.com
"pcars 2" site:youtube.com

"gran turismo sport" site:youtube.com

"" for exact match.
site: for site.

If you bothered to click through the pages, you'd see that with your search string, by page 5 (the one I clicked, eh) results that have nothing to do to with Project CARS 2 or Youtube start showing up. Don't even want to know what happens by page 300!

Odd that you only come to that conclusion with regard to one of the titles.

Now you can do the exact same thing (" " for exact match) in youtube itself, that way you know you are looking only within youtube. Give it a go.

Seems they do when the methodology is flawed.

I'm glad you agree.

Yes, that's why I wrote "GTS might only attract 60k". It states a possibility, the one you raise:

Nope, never raised that possibility at all, quite the opposite as I have already said.

• "Using iRacing model [...] has its issues" - [because of those issues] -> "only has 60k subscribers".
• If GTS uses iRacing model - [and has the same issues] -> they may only attract 60k : "if that's all it can attract" - [then] -> "GTS will not succeed".

The problem is not the number, it is how that is logically structured.

Only if you want to take parts of it out of context, quote mine, make inferences that don't exist and ignore clairification from the person making the comments in the first place.

However if it makes you happy, I concede you know better than me what I am saying and thinking (actually I don't - but it does illustrate the argument to the absurd being used).

I'm not disputing the data, I'm disputing the inferences and conclusion, as stated in my post.

Your inference not mine (I would have had to imply it - you inferred it - incorrectly).

As I have repeatedly said, your inference of my comments are incorrect, but it is fun when I get told I someone else knows what I think better than I do!

That's nice, really, me too. I wasn't judging your position on whether things should succeed or not, I was just...

... Driving the point home that Johnnypenso tried to estabilish an absurd standard (sum all, survey all, that's not how any of this works!), saying the "statements are without merit", all while failing to perceive he "likes" posts that do not meet basic ones. I singled yours out because it was recent.

The concept of playing the ball not the man is not difficult to understand, please ensure from now on you do.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Take a look at what wording both of the official channels use, take a look at what all of the gaming sites refer to both as. They use the full names for both, the results for searches against those minimize as much as possible the false positives.

Its even possible to minimize the false positives totally and search for the whole phrases ("Gran Turismo Sport" and "Project Cars 2").

http://www.googlebattle.com/?domain="gran+turismo+sport"&domain2="project+Cars+2"&submit=Go!

Once again, Sure.
I understand what you are saying.
But you seem to have little interest in taking on board what I'm saying.

Everyone here, and almost everywhere, call Gran Turismo 3 "GT3".
Same for, let's say, Gran Turismo 5.
There are plenty of videos titled "GTSport".
#gtsport is very popular on social media, and used by Gran Turismo themselves.
Most of the headlines here are "GT Sport".

I could go on.

It's a very popular, we'll known, and we'll used abbreviation.
Many, many people would use it when searching all over the internet.
So, as I've said, counting those that physically type the words "Gran Turismo" as being the only people searching isn't what I would call a reliable statistic.

 

[cutmeamango]

Odd that you only come to that conclusion with regard to one of the titles.

Odd indeed! It just might be because I know the separate strings of Project and Cars and Youtube should produce odd results quicker than Gran and Turismo.

Nope, never raised that possibility at all, quite the opposite as I have already said.

Only if you want to take parts of it out of context, quote mine, make inferences that don't exist and ignore clairification from the person making the comments in the first place.

However if it makes you happy, I concede you know better than me waht I am saying and thinking.

I don't know what you were thinking.

"Using iRacing as a model also has its issues, given that it has I believe around 60k active users, IF THAT's all IT can attract THEN GTS will not succeed on the same model at all."

Please explain:
1) if
2) that
3) it
4) then

Your inference not mine (I would have had to imply it - you inferred it - incorrectly).

As I have repeatedly said, your inference of my comments are incorrect, but it is fun when I get told I someone else knows what I think better than I do!

Ok. Tell me at which point I'm jumping?

- 10% of players (avg!) have 'play Online' achievements in 'current Racing genre titles'.
> 10% of 'current Racing genre titles' players 'play Online'. >
> 10% of 'Racing genre' players 'play Online' >
> 10% of 'Racing genre' players have interest in 'playing Online'. >
> 90% (avg!) of 'Racing genre' players have no interest in 'playing Online'.

The concept of playing the ball not the man is not difficult to understand, please ensure from now on you do.

Could you point me where I played the man?

 

[Scaff]

Once again, Sure.
I understand what you are saying.
But you seem to have little interest in taking on board what I'm saying.

Everyone here, and almost everywhere, call Gran Turismo 3 "GT3".
Same for, let's say, Gran Turismo 5.
There are plenty of videos titled "GTSport".
#gtsport is very popular on social media, and used by Gran Turismo themselves.
Most of the headlines here are "GT Sport".

I could go on.

It's a very popular, we'll known, and we'll used abbreviation.
Many, many people would use it when searching all over the internet.
So, as I've said, counting those that physically type the words "Gran Turismo" as being the only people searching isn't what I would call a reliable statistic.

I've taken on board exact;y what you have said, and as we are not talking about a twitter hashtag that's really not the point.

The point is that by using abbreviation for either of them results in a huge number of false positives, as such while its imperfect, using the exact names and limiting the search to just that gives us the most accurate metric we can get.

I'm also fairly sure that if doing so resulted in different hit counts (as I am sure it will do in about two weeks) this would not be an issue at all.

Odd indeed! It just might be because I know the separate strings of Project and Cars and Youtube should produce odd results quicker than Gran and Turismo.

Which is exactly why limiting the exact search criteria to the full names of both and carrying the searches out within youtube, while still not perfect is going to reduce the number of false positives as much as is possible.

I don't know what you were thinking.

Then please stop posting as if you do.

"Using iRacing as a model also has its issues, given that it has I believe around 60k active users, IF THAT's all IT can attract THEN GTS will not succeed on the same model at all."

Please explain:
1) if
2) that
3) it
4) then

Seriously? OK.

First however context, its important. I did not raise GTS using iRacing as a model, the post I was replying to was.

You also are once again quote mining, so let me use the exact words.

"If that is all it can attract" = iRacing's model

"then GTS will not succeed on the same model at all" = GTS can't just copy the model used by iRacing and expect that alone to be enough to make it a success.

Its really quite obvious and straightforward when you take it in the context of the conversation.

Ok. Tell me at which point I'm jumping?

- 10% of players (avg!) have 'play Online' achievements in 'current Racing genre titles'.
> 10% of 'current Racing genre titles' players 'play Online'. >
> 10% of 'Racing genre' players 'play Online' >
> 10% of 'Racing genre' players have interest in 'playing Online'. >
> 90% (avg!) of 'Racing genre' players have no interest in 'playing Online'.

That would be this one:

"10% have Online trophies > 10% at max like racing online > 10% is the ceiling for online."

An average of 10% of purchasers of the genre play online at least once, which does mean that currently 90% as a rough average don't.

At no point have I said that only 10% like doing so, want to do so, or that its a ceiling for online. Those are all points you have jumped to.

You seem to be taking this as if I am taking aim at GTS specifically, which I am categorically not, I'm talking about the genre as a whole.

Could you point me where I played the man?

No problem at all.

Johnnypenso liked this post

 

[Greatbee]

So enlighten me someone how this is relevant to 'gt-sport-vs-other-games-comparison-video' thread?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I've taken on board exact;y what you have said, and as we are not talking about a twitter hashtag that's really not the point.

The point is that by using abbreviation for either of them results in a huge number of false positives, as such while its imperfect, using the exact names and limiting the search to just that gives us the most accurate metric we can get.

I'm also fairly sure that if doing so resulted in different hit counts (as I am sure it will do in about two weeks) this would not be an issue at all.


Which is exactly why limiting the exact search criteria to the full names of both and carrying the searches out within youtube, while still not perfect is going to reduce the number of false positives as much as is possible.

We are talking about searching for GT Sport.
What people type to find it is exactly the point, regardless of where on the internet they are looking, but that also includes youtube.
Clearly you aren't going to bend and say that some may, just may, type "GT Sport" and not "Gran Turismo Sport", so it's pointless taking this any further.

And for someone who loves to use the term play the ball..........

 

[Scaff]

We are talking about searching for GT Sport.
What people type to find it is exactly the point, regardless of where on the internet they are looking, but that also includes youtube.
Clearly you aren't going to bend and say that some may, just may, type "GT Sport" and not "Gran Turismo Sport", so it's pointless taking this any further.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that people will not type in 'GT Sport' or 'GTS', they will, just as they will with 'PC2'. I'm, saying that those will result in a lot more false positives. Nothing more and nothing less.

And for someone who loves to use the term play the ball..........

You're quite right, my apologies.

So enlighten me someone how this is relevant to 'gt-sport-vs-other-games-comparison-video' thread?

Well it all started here:

Hear me out folks, Kaz basically said GT Sport was a reboot. They put out a video talking about how the game went into becoming a collector game and now they are rebooting everything. I mean it's going turn off a lot of staunch individuals who liked the old way, but with the way it is setup GT Sport may have opened itself up to be more than it ever was. Lets look at it from this point, GT Sport the entire offline section is geared toward teaching every player how racing works, rules, regulations and sportsmanship. They also included a Beta that tested and also updated the rating system that will be used to match players of similar skill levels. There is a heavy lean on social interaction with GT Sport and sure it will cost them a lot of players but with the world being connected as it is, they will also open themselves up to potentially more than they potentially could ever have lost. Although if it's not popular with buyers the alternative is far worse that doing par for the course of releasing a by the numbers GT game.

What I am saying is this is the new GT, this is PD's new game. It's a risky move to almost unilaterally aim the game at something PD themselves have only just dabbled in two games ago. While this game still heavily offline, the lean of connecting online is strong since the base of the game points to racing with others online. It's a risk in many ways, running servers to support the game will be expensive and also their base is sort of confused about the game changes PD have implemented to the basic structure. I applaud Kaz and PD for risking it all, I can't even think of the amount of money dumped into this effort at all not to mention that if it fails Kaz will take the brunt of the backlash.

My thoughts are that PD are definitely not making this game for offline players, everything steers you toward racing together with others online even the offline mode basically is there to teach you all the rules and skills for clean fair racing that will be used within the game and in the sanctioned online rooms. I say if you aren't interested in online in the least then this GT isn't for you at all, although you can simply muddle around with the photomode but even that requires online so you can share your creations with others. I've got a lot of games and not a lot of time so this game may just fit my groove better than I anticipate. I mean I played ton of Destiny and now Destiny 2, all my systems are connected online. PD and Sony aren't stupid they of course measured metrics and are looking to the future and online is only going to grow barring mass disruption of internet worldwide. It's a risk but still a business decision and thus calculated risk non the less.

And while it is an interesting discussion you are quite right that its off-topic, I've made my position quite clear so I'm happy to get back on track.

 

[GT6mebe]

But will you tell me you wouldn't have liked to see something new yesterday morning during the TGS PS presentation?

I would of liked a new trailer (it may still come) but I'm not going to act like its a big deal with there is none.

Still? Present? Do you know how many millions Forza sold this generation?

Yes still present. Forza is not a particularly big series. Each entry sells 1-2 million (often with bundles), and debuts quite poorly on monthly NPD (US) (100-200k).

Having 3 releases doesn't change the fact that each entry doesn't sell notably well. In fact, I would bet Forza 3 and 4 sold better than 5 and 6. This is why I find it funny when people say PD/Sony should be worried about Forza or PCars etc. I think the devs should certainly look at the competition from a design point but other than that, the biggest limitation to GT's sales and popularity is GT itself.

 

[ImaRobot]

the biggest limitation to GT's sales and popularity is GT itself.

Which actually sounds worse than if it was caused by the competition. So they themselves caused nearly a 40-50% decrease in sales, if we're to follow that logic.

 

[daan]

Can we get back to comparing videos please?

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

okidoki, topic refresh...

For example: How much does it harm Forza 7 to still have persisting problem of "no center spring"?


FORZA 7 - I find this video appropriate for:
- being on Xbox S
- with a Trustmaster wheel
- by a person that clearly knows sim-driving
- not getting negative(istic) but realistic

He shares his comments on AI, and by the end goes deeper on wheel issue that Forza series continues to have - no center spring power.

 

[ImaRobot]

For example: How much does it harm Forza 7 to still have persisting problem of "no center spring"?

Not having a wheel I don't know much about the topic, but there is a dev on the official forum confirming issues with wheels in the demo, and working on alleviating them.

 

[PhaedrusSocrate]

There is difference between "working on issues with wheel in our demo" and if he was to specify "center spring that was always issue in our games, until we soon fix it" or something a bit specific like that.

 

[sebmugi]

small comparo F7 demo/GTsport beta ^^