GT Sport vs Other Games: Comparison Video Thread

[G.T.Ace]

Yes I do have a capture card taking a direct LPCM feed from my PS4, and no your further attempt to claim its inaccuracy (which its not) don't show anything other than your massive confirmation bias.

I also downloaded and extracted the audio from your direct vs headphones videos and ran them through a DAW to take a look at any differences.

The only differences is that the headphones one is around 7.2db louder (on a zero peak db scale) and suffers from clipping and distortion, add 7.2db gain to the direct audio and ensure it doesn't clip and not only does it sound pretty much the same, it gets rid of a lot of the annoying distortion you get from a phone recording.





Just for fun I ran a THX set-up and calibration disc on my AV system (both via PS4 and dedicated Blu-Ray player. No issues at all with my set-up. Not that I am surprised, I've run AV systems for over 20 years and have no issue with regard to the set-up and calibration of them. It was re-calibrated a few months back anyway when I got a new sofa unit.

I would also like a source for your claim that decoding errors between 7.1 and 5.1 are the cause of the 'vacuum cleaner sounds'.

It also doesn't explain why such an error (if it even were the cause) doesn't affect other titles and why it persists across different listening devices.

Now I run a PS4 Pro out through a number of routes:

• via HDMI to either my AV receiver (a Sony DA2400ES) to a set of Monitor Audio Radius speakers and sub
• via HDMi to an elgato HD60 capture card (and set to mid 250kbps - bit rate that is more than acceptable - for comparison your 'headphone' capture is 132kbps).
• via optical to a set of Turtle Beach 520p 7.1 headphones.

They all give the same basic characteristics in terms of audio, now what exactly is it that you are using that makes all three of these routes so flawed?



So what audio format are they using that is causing so many issues for so many?

Oh and I'm going to want a source for it as well.



You are mixing up frequence of sound with the volume of sound, they are not the same.

Now in terms of low frequency sound (to the degree that you feel it) GTS is not bad at all.

In terms of feedback I get from my tactile rig GTS is on a par with Driveclub and Assetto Corsa in this regard, its well below Project Cars and Dirt Rally, but above F1 2016, Seb Loeb Rally Evo and WRC6.

However its not anything 'special' in that regard.

Note that I am talking about true LFE here, 10 to 300hz, with anything below 32 being lower than the range of human hearing.



Now I have to be honest and expand my reply to not just the content of your post, but to the behavior pattern it typifies.

The audio in the GTS Beta is an improvement on the audio from past titles, with for example the new Porsche's sounding more than acceptable for me. Some cars still sound poor, but its also a beta. Now while I would ideally love GTS to have genre leading audio, the hard fact is that it doesn't. That alone doesn't make it a bad title.

Project Cars has had incorrect samples used for at least one car (that they did then patch), Seb Loeb Rally Evo has the worst sound of any sim I have ever played, Assetto Corsa is still hit and miss, with some sounding great and others still needing a lot of work.

Do you see how easy it was for me to honestly and openly accept that other titles I like have issues with either elements of the audio or in the case of Seb Loeb, everything about the audio.

What you are doing however is a trait that unfortunately seems (from my experience) to define an uncomfortably high number of GT fans, the inability to accept that flaw and issues may well exist within your 'chosen' series.

Its quite frankly absurd, as it leads to more and more outlandish claims to try and support your own internal bias. No one is going to judge you for being OK with the sounds as they are in GTS, but to try and claim that no issue exists and that the problem is simply with how everyone else is listening to it is just 'odd'.

I'm listening to the GTS audio through three different route (four if you include tactile - which you sound - its still part of the audio output), all of which total around £2,500 worth of kit, a £1k of which was for a single bit of Sony kit. Yet according to you the reason why I have issue with some elements of GTS' audio is because all of it is either not set-up correctly, broken or not compatible.

Its an insane argument to even start to make, but you seem to want to make it.

So as I have already said, I've shown you mine, lets see yours. What do we need to have to be able to experience what you are?

 

[Tornado]

What do we need to have to be able to experience what you are?

I sure hope it isn't a set of cheap PC speakers with basic Dolby Digital support.

 

[sems4arsenal]

PD had this a year ago and for no reason, they "turn this off" I hope you read this back and realize how stupid this sounds, maybe next they will turn off the sound or physic

Doesn't sound so stupid now, does it?

 

[bdj57]

About this audio thing going on, I thought is all about the source of audio that matters. GTS audio definitely a significant improvement compared previous titles even is not superior by current standards. No matter what device, speakers, headphones or any audio system you use we should look back again at the sound sample. You can do enhancement like fiddling with the EQ (equalizer), but it doesn't make a big difference imo.

 

[Scaff]

That's useless, it doesn't even bring you a "cinematic experience". Just enhanced audio by simulating surround sound.

Exactly the point being made, this is the kind of confirmation bias that leads to absurd claims.

As @Tornado is highlighting.

 

[bdj57]

Exactly the point being made, this is the kind of confirmation bias that leads to absurd claims.

As @Tornado is highlighting.

Okay my mistake, I'm not giving clear confirmation on that, so sorry @Scaff (deleted the comment as well so it won't became a bias and long argument). You know better about this stuff than myself. Also, we should back on topic alright? This is gameplay comparison thread not audio/sound thread.

 

[Scaff]

Okay my mistake, I'm not giving clear confirmation on that, so sorry (deleted the comment as well so it won't became a bias and long argument). Just want to point my thoughts here. Also, we should back on topic alright? This is gameplay comparison thread not audio/sound thread

No problem, and it's a plain comparison thread, so discussing audio isn't an issue.

 

[bdj57]

No problem, and it's a plain comparison thread, so discussing audio isn't an issue.

Alright, I think this is going to be a long sound discussion right here

 

[G.T.Ace]

Doesn't sound so stupid now, does it?

By the way, the smoke is still controlled by the heat of the tyres, just like in GT5 and 6.
When you make a lot of donuts etc. and the tyres are hot, they will still generate smoke even when you start driving in a straight line.

 

[Fredzy]

I bought PS4 for the GTS beta.. a year ago. So that left me with PS4 and no GT. I bought Assetto Corsa to hold me over and played it almost exclusively up to when the GTS beta actually hit.

I have a lot to say about both games, but will sum them both up as being must-haves for someone who likes driving and competition. GT is a very polished game in many respects, very user-friendly. AC is the opposite of those things. GTS's online experience is maximum addictive vs. AC's literally repulsive experience.

At first glance, GT's graphics appear superior to AC, but oddly I can't say I prefer them. AC's got a grittier, more real feel to it. I honestly like both a lot, despite being so different. I guess racing game graphics don't have to be a convergent evolution type thing after all?

But then there's physics and sound. I'm sorry.

GT:

AC:

 

[diesel97]

Doesn't sound so stupid now, does it?

Not sure what you are trying to say but I never said they didn't have smoke. Why would they turn it off? So it runs butter smooth? So in your thinking when the final product comes out they turn smoke back on? All this makes no sense to me

 

[sems4arsenal]

Not sure what you are trying to say but I never said they didn't have smoke. Why would they turn it off? So it runs butter smooth? So in your thinking when the final product comes out they turn smoke back on? All this makes no sense to me

Clearly the smoke effects are turned down by a significant way and clearly they have better particles already. Why won't they utilize it again when they begin performance optimization?

 

[diesel97]

Clearly the smoke effects are turned down by a significant way and clearly they have better particles already. Why won't they utilize it again when they begin performance optimization?

Why turn it off? They had a year to optimize already I wouldn't expect much change you act like this is pre-alpha, a beta is pretty much done

 

[SlipZtrEm]

GT Sport already can't hit a locked 60 fps. I can't imagine how resource-heavy smoke effects (or to a lesser extent, tire marks) would help that without some other area having to be compromised.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Why turn it off? They had a year to optimize already I wouldn't expect much change you act like this is pre-alpha, a beta is pretty much done

Because it is a server stress test.

I want to know on what basis are you assuming a game with a drift mode, will ship with little to no smoke effects?

 

[diesel97]

Because it is a server stress test.

I want to know on what basis are you assuming a game with a drift mode, will ship with little to no smoke effects?

I never said it wouldn't, but you keep tap dancing around "why turn it off". Please explain how "server stress test" has anything to do with graphics you are really reaching.

 

[OdeFinn]

@Scaff, seems like your audio equipment aren't giving you clear output in any way, your 7.1 audios are always going thru Sony audio field enhancements, and your headphones are always recoding audio signal, downmixing to two channel.
You just don't have possibility to listen clear sounds without any remixing or external audio enhancements. Sorry.
My crap ~150€ headphones are producing clearer sound, sharkoon x-tatic digitsl, oldie Goldie..

 

[sems4arsenal]

I never said it wouldn't, but you keep tap dancing around "why turn it off". Please explain how "server stress test" has anything to do with graphics you are really reaching.

I've answered this already. There is no point releasing a beta with severe performance issue( that will turn away potential consumers), because of added bells and whistles.

 

[Scaff]

@Scaff, seems like your audio equipment aren't giving you clear output in any way, your 7.1 audios are always going thru Sony audio field enhancements, and your headphones are always recoding audio signal, downmixing to two channel.
You just don't have possibility to listen clear sounds without any remixing or external audio enhancements. Sorry.
My crap ~150€ headphones are producing clearer sound, sharkoon x-tatic digitsl, oldie Goldie..

So you are not able to provide a single source you were asked about, you have no idea what my system sounds like and your headphones use exactly the same output route as mine are. They are capable of handling less audio formats than my kit is and have no way of dealing with high bitrate LPCM audio feeds or HD audio formats (which is what PD actually use).

So please do explain how only you are able to deal with this special audio format from PD when you can't even manage HD or Multi channel LPCM?

Quite frankly you have no idea at all what you are talking about.

 

[ImaRobot]

@Scaff, seems like your audio equipment aren't giving you clear output in any way, your 7.1 audios are always going thru Sony audio field enhancements, and your headphones are always recoding audio signal, downmixing to two channel.
You just don't have possibility to listen clear sounds without any remixing or external audio enhancements. Sorry.
My crap ~150€ headphones are producing clearer sound, sharkoon x-tatic digitsl, oldie Goldie..

So in short you can't explain and back up what you're talking about. This is a common occurrence with you, it seems.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Quite frankly you have no idea at all what you are talking about.

Well, that was obvious after the first post here.

 

[OdeFinn]

So you are not able to provide a single source you were asked about, you have no idea what my system sounds like and your headphones use exactly the same output route as mine are.

Quite frankly you have no idea at all what you are talking about.

LPCM 48kHz goes thru your Sony signal processing, not transmitted in anyway clear to your speakers(you got your "elvis concerto hall" effect on it, without possibility to switch it of), turtles are recoding(decode and encode with it own chip) 7.1=2 chan, again no clear signal.
Sony is good for movies, turtle for fps shooters if you want sharp positioning info. Your Sony allows clear analog audio, and signals with higher frequencies than PS4 is giving, those cases it depends on model, will it okay sounds thru without enhancements or just stop playing any sound.

You want sources, start with PS4 specs, continue audio type definitions, check your gears specs, then you know at it's just impossible to playback clear sounds from your gears in current setup way. What leads to my gears, no enhancements, native 5.1 from end to end.

I must be a big a hole.. I have now few really occupied days, so you're not hearing me much

 

[diesel97]

I've answered this already. There is no point releasing a beta with severe performance issue( that will turn away potential consumers), because of added bells and whistles.

And we come full circle "dialing back, fewer bells and whistles, deleting stuff, and keeping that shiny look, not mention FPS and tearing

 

[Scaff]

LPCM 48kHz goes thru your Sony signal processing, not transmitted in anyway clear to your speakers(you got your "elvis concerto hall" effect on it, without possibility to switch it of),

Utterly and completely incorrect.

The DA2400ES is able to run with 7. multichannel LPCM feeds, which means it take the 7.1 LPCM signal (which my PS4 is set to push out direct from the source material) directly from the PS4, it does not process it at all and feeds the original source mix straight to my speakers (and tactile unit).

It quite literally can not get any clearer, its a direct path from the audio on the source material to the speakers, its the very point of having the ability to deal with multi-channel LPCM!

turtles are recoding(decode and encode with it own chip) 7.1=2 chan, again no clear signal.

Just like your headset is, and neither of them are able to deal with multi-channel LPCM or HD audio formats.

Sony is good for movies, turtle for fps shooters if you want sharp positioning info.

The Sony is good for a damn sight more than movies, and the Turtles are a pretty good set of gaming headsets that offer far more than just FPS support.

Your Sony allows clear analog audio, and signals with higher frequencies than PS4 is giving, those cases it depends on model, will it okay sounds thru without enhancements or just stop playing any sound.

My Sony allows the direct source material to be listened to at the highest bit-rates available on the home market.

You want sources, start with PS4 specs, continue audio type definitions, check your gears specs, then you know at it's just impossible to playback clear sounds from your gears in current setup way.

You made the claims, you back them up. Which you will of course struggle to do, given that they are nonsense.

What leads to my gears, no enhancements, native 5.1 from end to end.

Nope, not at all. They are not capable of dealing with direct multi-channel LPCM, which is what you would need for that. They are still processing a Dolby Digital signal (and not even a HD one) which is a compressed lossy format.

Sharkton themselves are quite happy to clearly say so as well:

"Decoder supports Dolby® Digital 2.0, Dolby® Digital 5.1 and Dolby® Pro Logic® II"

Source: https://en.sharkoon.com/product//12671#desc

I must be a big a hole.. I have now few really occupied days, so you're not hearing me much

No, but you do need to stop posting claims that you by now know to be totally untrue.

As such any future claims of this nature will need to be backed up with sources by you, or they will be considered an AUP violation.

 

[queleuleu]

Clearly the smoke effects are turned down by a significant way and clearly they have better particles already. Why won't they utilize it again when they begin performance optimization?

There are a lot of things wrong with GT : sounds, collisions, driving physics (OK for me), a clinical impression...
But the negativity from some members for GT is like blindness. No skid marks. It's a beta, nothing definitive. Maybe there won't be skid marks, but we've already seen them in previous builds. It's common sense, they can't deliver a game with drifting without skid marks.

 

[psychoazubi]

Utterly and completely incorrect.

The DA2400ES is able to run with 7. multichannel LPCM feeds, which means it take the 7.1 LPCM signal (which my PS4 is set to push out direct from the source material) directly from the PS4, it does not process it at all and feeds the original source mix straight to my speakers (and tactile unit).

It quite literally can not get any clearer, its a direct path from the audio on the source material to the speakers, its the very point of having the ability to deal with multi-channel LPCM!

View attachment 644638


Just like your headset is, and neither of them are able to deal with multi-channel LPCM or HD audio formats.



The Sony is good for a damn sight more than movies, and the Turtles are a pretty good set of gaming headsets that offer far more than just FPS support.



My Sony allows the direct source material to be listened to at the highest bit-rates available on the home market.



You made the claims, you back them up. Which you will of course struggle to do, given that they are nonsense.



Nope, not at all. They are not capable of dealing with direct multi-channel LPCM, which is what you would need for that. They are still processing a Dolby Digital signal (and not even a HD one) which is a compressed lossy format.

Sharkton themselves are quite happy to clearly say so as well:

"Decoder supports Dolby® Digital 2.0, Dolby® Digital 5.1 and Dolby® Pro Logic® II"

Source: https://en.sharkoon.com/product//12671#desc



No, but you do need to stop posting claims that you by now know to be totally untrue.

As such any future claims of this nature will need to be backed up with sources by you, or they will be considered an AUP violation.

I think almost everyone is on your side on this topic and it was very interesting discussion for the last 24h but I think it is time to move on and stop feeding the troll. There's more than just sound to compare with other games. The reason for the absence of smoke for example (just kidding @sems4arsenal)

 

[Scaff]

I think almost everyone is on your side on this topic and it was very interesting discussion for the last 24h but I think it is time to move on and stop feeding the troll. There's more than just sound to compare with other games. The reason for the absence of smoke for example (just kidding @sems4arsenal)

Ignorance and lies have to be countered.

However I suspect the member in question will now run away for a bit anyway.

When he returned should it continue without sources to back the claims up, then it becomes an AUP issue.

TL: DR - Unless he can change reality his fantasy is over.

 

[Johnnypenso]

There are a lot of things wrong with GT : sounds, collisions, driving physics (OK for me), a clinical impression...
But the negativity from some members for GT is like blindness. No skid marks. It's a beta, nothing definitive. Maybe there won't be skid marks, but we've already seen them in previous builds. It's common sense, they can't deliver a game with drifting without skid marks.

The beta is the current state of the game. We have nothing else to go on at this point so it's not surprising that people are concerned about what they see or don't see in it.

 

[PzR Slim]

LPCM 48kHz goes thru your Sony signal processing, not transmitted in anyway clear to your speakers(you got your "elvis concerto hall" effect on it, without possibility to switch it of), turtles are recoding(decode and encode with it own chip) 7.1=2 chan, again no clear signal.
Sony is good for movies, turtle for fps shooters if you want sharp positioning info. Your Sony allows clear analog audio, and signals with higher frequencies than PS4 is giving, those cases it depends on model, will it okay sounds thru without enhancements or just stop playing any sound.

You want sources, start with PS4 specs, continue audio type definitions, check your gears specs, then you know at it's just impossible to playback clear sounds from your gears in current setup way. What leads to my gears, no enhancements, native 5.1 from end to end.

I must be a big a hole.. I have now few really occupied days, so you're not hearing me much

Here this might help you.

A little bit of advice. This is a great community. We often disagree but generally get on and help each other out. The one thing that connects us is our love of GT. Yep, we love it just like you love it. However, we realise it's limitations and are happy to talk about them without needing to lie to deal with them. In my opinion if you want to have a future here and not become the laughing stock of the board I'd change your ways.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

I bought PS4 for the GTS beta.. a year ago. So that left me with PS4 and no GT. I bought Assetto Corsa to hold me over and played it almost exclusively up to when the GTS beta actually hit.

I have a lot to say about both games, but will sum them both up as being must-haves for someone who likes driving and competition. GT is a very polished game in many respects, very user-friendly. AC is the opposite of those things. GTS's online experience is maximum addictive vs. AC's literally repulsive experience.

At first glance, GT's graphics appear superior to AC, but oddly I can't say I prefer them. AC's got a grittier, more real feel to it. I honestly like both a lot, despite being so different. I guess racing game graphics don't have to be a convergent evolution type thing after all?

But then there's physics and sound. I'm sorry.

GT:

AC:

hehe I like the way you represented your opinion on the images