GT4 Driving Physics

[Speed Drifter]

..but i hate ONE THING at the GT4P Physik:
when ur car drifts and u want to turn it back, it "bites" back and steers very fast (and unrealistic) to the side u steered to!!!..but it´s only that--->nothing more is a serious problem!!!(for me at least!)

Did you know that it's supposed to bite back? and you're supposed to short of predict when that "biting" is going to happen and straighten the wheel before it happens. That's what we others are doing

 

[Eagle]

I'd have though Brasil would be in the Americas.

Most people seem to feel Prologue is better. Having played it only briefly at a local games store I can hardly comment but it did seem better than GT3 so I look forward to what further revisions have taken place.

 

[Greyout]

...but i never saw i car "biting back" after the driver steered against the drift(ok perhaps they´re that professional but how should i steer then???)..at leats it´s very frustating (like the Penalty (10 seconds!!!) and should be corrected/modified in GT4!!!

you've never driven a real car have you

 

[Tacet_Blue]

you've never driven a real car have you

His profile says hes 15...so probably not

I pefer the more unforgiving nature of GTP4 driving physics to GT3. The braking is much more realistic, and the bite back from over correcting oversteer is what you'd expect.

Some people don't get on with the GT4P driving physics and say the cars can't drift/oversteer/or wheelspin.

Stick on some street tryes, switch off the TCS and driver aids and enjoy!

(GT40 with no TCS on Grand Canyon drifts alot!)

Its much harder to drive the cars at first than in GT3, but when you get used to it, you don't want to go back to GT3.

 

[Jay]

...but i never saw i car "biting back" after the driver steered against the drift(ok perhaps they´re that professional but how should i steer then???)..at leats it´s very frustating (like the Penalty (10 seconds!!!) and should be corrected/modified in GT4!!!

Dont think thats realistic???, then go and download this short movie then and see it for real
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1110410&postcount=1

 

[Buggy Boy]

Maybe they are harder to control because you are comparing a 60's over powered, under 'gripped' F1 car with a modern family saloon or race car with far better suspension, tyres, brakes etc.

No no no no!!! You should try it.

I have adapted my PS1 dualshock for use on PC. Great was my surprise to see that the wheels in GPL actually turned as far as I pushed the stick No steering help in GPL : you accelerate in a corner, so you have to steer ever less and less. You slow down towards the APEX, so you can turn your wheels more and more before you get understeer (or oversteer, depending of the setup of your car). But you have to do it yourself, while GT does it for you!

Same for braking : never pull the stick completely back, as I do in GT, because your wheels lock No braking help in GPL, it's always a search for the limit, as in real life!

Then shifting : in the beginning I always made my engine over-rev, because I didn't release the throttle Bad habit from GT ...

No you should try, it is indeed more difficult because you drive great cars, which are a challenge to handle, but the physics are so much more realistic in GPL!

 

[WhiteSW20]

I hate the old GT3 driving style, and each time I go back to GT3 from GT4 Prologue I have a harder time enjoying it. The only reason I'd voluntarily return to GT3 now is to drive an old track (like a friend you haven't seen for a while) or for iLink. Otherwise, I really, really, really love Prologue's steering and car behaviour, especially on Street tires and with no assists. Pure bliss. Can't wait for November.

this guy totally spoke my mind. After playing gt4p I found that GT3 was way simpler to play. I got the driving force pro wheel designed for GT4 and the handling is pretty real I'd say
that's only if u place license mode or use street tires with no assist in arcade
it's really really fun. I would be satisfied if the physics stayed like GT4P in the final version as there are so many other things to play with in GT4 final.
But for sure PD will improve it even more
I can't wait till november either

 

[JAGUAR]

No no no no!!! You should try it.

I have adapted my PS1 dualshock for use on PC. Great was my surprise to see that the wheels in GPL actually turned as far as I pushed the stick No steering help in GPL : you accelerate in a corner, so you have to steer ever less and less. You slow down towards the APEX, so you can turn your wheels more and more before you get understeer (or oversteer, depending of the setup of your car). But you have to do it yourself, while GT does it for you!

Same for braking : never pull the stick completely back, as I do in GT, because your wheels lock No braking help in GPL, it's always a search for the limit, as in real life!

Then shifting : in the beginning I always made my engine over-rev, because I didn't release the throttle Bad habit from GT ...

No you should try, it is indeed more difficult because you drive great cars, which are a challenge to handle, but the physics are so much more realistic in GPL!

I've played it, many times, and it is indeed great.

I just think GT4P does a great job of replicating a modern day car.

Modern cars, with ABS, and race cars for that matter very rarely lock up, and race/rally cars with sequential/paddle shifters allow full power changes.

As for the steering, in GT4P with teh Force Pro wheel, all the things you mention apply as well. I never use a dual shock pad now.

And of course you must always turn all driving aids off and use street tyryes for the road cars.

 

[Buggy Boy]

And of course you must always turn all driving aids off and use street tyryes for the road cars.

No ... c'mon ... .

As for the steering, in GT4P with teh Force Pro wheel, all the things you mention apply as well. I never use a dual shock pad now.

Are you sure? I can hardly believe that the wheels turn further (into understeer) with the wheel, and not with the dual pad. Can you see it? Is it visible in the replays? Or do you only "feel" it? I wonder what happens if you turn the wheel to its limit, as if it were a dual pad.

 

[Dave A]

Apparently when you use the pad, the game automatically adds driver aids that help you turn at speed. With the wheel it's all you and it creates a more realistic experience. I'm not 100% sure on this but I'm sure I've read that somewhere.

 

[JAGUAR]

No ... c'mon ... .

Are you sure? I can hardly believe that the wheels turn further (into understeer) with the wheel, and not with the dual pad. Can you see it? Is it visible in the replays? Or do you only "feel" it? I wonder what happens if you turn the wheel to its limit, as if it were a dual pad.

Can't speak for the dual shock in GT4P. All I can say is that GT4P, with the new Force Pro wheel handles like a real car, i.e turning more to get round a hairpin pin bend etc.

 

[Slip Angle 415]

Werner!
Have you tried 900 degree steering? I'm waiting for you to take one apart!
With the shifters you build the shift lag in GT4P must seem excessive!

Look at best motoring vids of Tsukuba, even when they shift by nearly ripping the lever out of the floor, it's 2 seconds a gearchange. The lap times, the last corner power drift, GT4P is nearly real.

GT4P is UNPLAYABLE with the DS. I have a nice white one, unused.

GT4P + DFP = Cant go back to GT3.

 

[35mm]

Are you sure? I can hardly believe that the wheels turn further (into understeer) with the wheel, and not with the dual pad. Can you see it? Is it visible in the replays? Or do you only "feel" it? I wonder what happens if you turn the wheel to its limit, as if it were a dual pad.

There is a thread posted some time ago talking about this in the GT4 Prologue forum.
It's here.

It's the first time this happens in a Gran Turismo game and apparently it only works with the DFP on 900º mode.
I play GTP with a Wingman FF and it doesn't happen unfortunately.

 

[Werner Winkels]

Hi Slip Angle
Yes I'm tried the 900° Mode
The Driving on asphalt is ok, but it isnt easy to controll / absorb a skidding Car.

On Grand Canyon the 900° is to much .

Maybe I must to accustom oneself


@ Gear Shifter
For my H-Shifter function the longer time delay is better .
Now the Shifter can upshift to the selected Gear without to use the interjacent Gears.
It's only to fault , the Shifter beginn to change Gears with the signal of the new selected Gear .
In a real (non aotomatic) Car You start this procedure with the clutch .

With the long time delay the H-Shifter is unusable ( No Fun with it )

If the final GT4 Version use the same shifting method , I must find a way to start my Shifter with a simulated clutch pedal , or I'm to scrap the H-Shifter

 

[Buggy Boy]

There is a thread posted some time ago talking about this in the GT4 Prologue forum.
It's here.

It's the first time this happens in a Gran Turismo game and apparently it only works with the DFP on 900º mode.
I play GTP with a Wingman FF and it doesn't happen unfortunately.

Thank you very much 👍 This is very important news imo. A good progress for GT4P towards becoming a real simulator ...

Unbelieveable that such things aren't documented in the GT4P documentation. The few 1000 of us using fora might happen to read a topic about it, but of all the 10.000s other users without access to computers, many probably will never find out!

 

[35mm]

Indeed.
But I am also amazed at the number of people who noticed this and that cares about this. Very very few people! I don't understand...

 

[Polyphony001]

In GT4 they will have even better physics than GT4P. I hope there's a little less understeer in GT4, because in some cars you had to slow to 25MPH to go round a corner. That sounds like overkill to me. But Besides that, I do prefer prologue physics. Especially the F1 GTR. The physics on that are totally different to anything in Gt3.

 

[Buggy Boy]

... apparently it only works with the DFP on 900º mode.

That means that to drive a Formula car or LM prototype without steering assistance, you need to drive it with the rack and pinion of a passenger car?

 

[JAGUAR]

That means that to drive a Formula car or LM prototype without steering assistance, you need to drive it with the rack and pinion of a passenger car?

When you drive the competition cars like the F1 GTR, you only have to turn the wheel a tiny amount compared to a road car.

The sensitivity/turn of the wheel is different for all the cars.

Half a turn is virtually full lock on the F1 GTR, compared to two and a half turns for a regular road car.

 

[35mm]

That's a good point...
I'm not sure about that one to be honest. You should try asking people who use the DFP.




EDIT: Oops. Guess I was too slow. Thanks for that JAGUAR.

 

[GTXLR]

In GT4 they will have even better physics than GT4P. I hope there's a little less understeer in GT4, because in some cars you had to slow to 25MPH to go round a corner. That sounds like overkill to me. But Besides that, I do prefer prologue physics. Especially the F1 GTR. The physics on that are totally different to anything in Gt3.

Understeer is an inherhent part of a lot of todays road cars, when driven hard.

Mostly made worse when people dont understand how to transfer weight properly when cornering.
A common error often made is braking too early and being off the brake too much before turn in so the car is already back sitting level with a neutral stance, with no braking force, weight transfer forcing the car down at the front to give extra grip, you end up understeering.

Also it is also sometimes necessary to rock the car into a corner with feint motion, to help get better grip and turn-in to a corner.

IMO both these elements are represented to great effect in Prologue and are very realistic and can really be appreciated when using the DFP.

Edit: With the DFP the race cars lock to lock is less than the road cars.

 

[35mm]

Understeer is an inherhent part of a lot of todays road cars, when driven hard.

Mostly made worse when people dont understand how to transfer weight properly when cornering.
A common error often made is braking too early and being off the brake too much before turn in so the car is already back sitting level with a neutral stance, with no braking force, weight transfer forcing the car down at the front to give extra grip.

That's right.
But sometimes the reverse also happens, with people breaking too late and too hard at the entry of a corner, resulting in the front of the car going very wide.

 

[GTXLR]

That's right.
But sometimes the reverse also happens, with people breaking too late and too hard at the entry of a corner, resulting in the front of the car going very wide.

Good point DiabolicalMask, also true this is a cause of understeering in corners, though i was generally refering to the fact that polyphony 01 was finding it hard to go into the corners at anything above 25mph without understeering, which too me suggests he wasnt using brake weight transfer correctly, not going too fast and deep before braking.

Again I think Prologue Physics simulate all of these aspects to great effect, and would be dissapointed to see PD soften the Physics engine to prevent the understeer problem he was complaining of.
The Driving lessons help greatly with learning all these elements, so dont feel that any softening up by PD would be beneficial, learning to adapt driving styles and techniques to all variety of cars is what GT is about, 'The Real Driving Simulator', should remain that and Understeer is part of that, learning to control and adapt your abilities of car control, is what makes GT so special.

Edit: Of course then When Gt4 arrives youll get the ability to tweak your suspension and tyre choice, which will also help dial out understeer, if set up correctly.

 

[35mm]

Good point DiabolicalMask, also true this is a cause of understeering in corners, though i was generally refering to the fact that polyphony 01 was finding it hard to go into the corners at anything above 25mph without understeering, which too me suggests he wasnt using brake weight transfer correctly, not going too fast and deep before braking.

Oh, ok.
In that case that should be the only cause of understeering. You're right. 👍

Again I think Prologue Physics simulate all of these aspects to great effect, and would be dissapointed to see PD soften the Physics engine to prevent the understeer problem he was complaining of.

I can't see that happening to be honest, although I once read KY saying that they were trying to make GT4 more accessible to new users... Don't really know what he meant by that but lets just hope that GT4's physics turn out to be even better (in the sense of more realistic) than Prologue.

 

[GTXLR]

I can't see that happening to be honest, although I once read KY saying that they were trying to make GT4 more accessible to new users... Don't really know what he meant by that but lets just hope that GT4's physics turn out to be even better (in the sense of more realistic) than Prologue.

Hopefully that only means that the Optional Assits will be more helpful To newcomers, and not any more in the way of dumming down the AI (God Forbid).

 

[Ubiquitous]

I hate the old GT3 driving style, and each time I go back to GT3 from GT4 Prologue I have a harder time enjoying it. The only reason I'd voluntarily return to GT3 now is to drive an old track (like a friend you haven't seen for a while) or for iLink. Otherwise, I really, really, really love Prologue's steering and car behaviour, especially on Street tires and with no assists. Pure bliss. Can't wait for November.

Spot on.. trying to play GT3 after playing GT:C was difficult but after playing GT4P it's really a strain... I go back to see my old cars and all the old tracks and watch some old replays but I can't see myself going back to playing it properly.

 

[DevilGTx]

Hey, I would use assists...if I needed 'em.

Once a decent knowledge of the track is attained, the DualShock2 will be no slower than the DFP, with or without "assists." As much as I love to use wheels in some games, I am 100% positive that my fastest lap times in GT4 will be driven with my DS2. And I never use "assists." TCS is not an "assister." Or ABS. Or ASM.
Even when using the DFP, even on 900', I prefer no assistance.
Sound like a challenge?

 

[Eagle]

Hey, I would use assists...if I needed 'em.

And I never use "assists." Even when using the DFP, even on 900', I prefer no assistance.

Sound like a challenge?

Sounds a tad pretentious in all honesty.

DS2 shouldn't be any slower than a DFP - more people will be using the controller, though it would be a way to boost wheel sales.

 

[GTXLR]

DS2 shouldn't be any slower than a DFP .

But the DFP brings a whole lot more to the gaming experience and feels so much more satisfying.

 

[yeti]

I think the DS2 vs DFP argument is settled at the db.granturismo place...

If you look at the top 3 times... they are all mixed between wheel and controller...

C.