GT4 Rally Physics?

[Soo-Em_Roi]

Hello, this is my first post although I've been "Lurking" for quite a while. I do NOT yet have GT4. I've perused most of the GT4 threads & used the "Search" function but cannot find an answer.

Has anyone ascertained if the "Rally Physics" are radically different from or similar to GT3? I DO have a Chinese version of GT4Prologue for comparison as well as GT3 of course. Thank You in advance.

 

[yesterdaylight]

i've found you are better of racing around a rally course treating the lines as a road course, trying to stay in best traction at all times. it's not like GT3 where you can just floor it through the turns and if you have a faster car, out accelerate the other guy. It's more blanaced, but i have found it harder to go fast out of traction like in GT3... I really liked power sliding around corners, hooking up, and flooring it. Now if you try to pull that, you end up in the wall with a 3-5 second penalty. It's a bit different in my view. Later-

 

[neurokinetik]

I cant really give a good comparison, as I refuse to play GT4 on the DS2 controller, which is how I played all of GT3. GT4's rally seems almost impossibly difficult with the DFP. You have to learn how to "flick" the car like a real rally driver would do. Either that or try to drive "slow in fast out" like tarmac driving and then you just get spanked by the AI drivers. No more winning races with a 1000HP Skyline driving completely out of control, the penalties assure that.

Out of three of us, only one of my friends has really started to get it down. Guess who got stuck doing all the rally license tests?

I have to admit though, I've grown to love driving Cita Di Aria... with LeMans cars.

I know a few people who drive rally in real lfe, I need to get them over here and see how they do.

 

[Soo-Em_Roi]

THANX for your replies yesterdaylight & neurokinetik.
Do either of you know of a Forum more "Driving" oriented? This one seems to be much more concerned that there aren't "Reversing Lamps" and that you can't cover your car with "Stickers" than with actual Driving Physics!

 

[VT]

This is probably the best resource for GT4 that you'll ever be able to find. IIRC there was a thread a while back discussing the physics - I'll try and find that for you.

edit:
I found the thread I was thinking of, but its Drift Physics. The physics of the game themselves never really had a thread dedicated to it IIRC, so that might be why you can't really find alot of info. Just do a search for "physics" under the GT4 board and scroll through the first couple pages of those results and you might be able to find some more info.

 

[Dave A]

Since only a very limited population of these boards actually have GT4 there won't be many threads on the way cars handle, how to tackle certain tracks and setups for a month or so when the majority of members will hopefully have their own copies of GT4.

 

[akak]

I have prolouge and found the rally physics and feel too be miles better, you couldnt just go full speed around the course like in gt3, you had too be far more controlled and precise it was much more rewarding. It does take a bit of getting used too in comparison with gt3 which was totally arcade like handling

Too sum up In prolouge it tends too feel like the amount of gas you give the car during turns affects the cornering, this is what i feel gt3 lacked in that you basiclly turned at the right time and put your foot down, now you can turn a little and use the gas too control the slide it seems much more realistic

 

[neurokinetik]

does take a bit of getting used too in comparison with gt3 which was totally arcade like handling

That about sums it up perfectly...

 

[Gabkicks]

I was gonna post this as its own thread. but i will post it here.


What is harder, GT4 rallying? or Richard Burns Rally (PC)? I imagine GT4 is a piece of cake compared to RIchard burns rally.

 

[akak]

I was gonna post this as its own thread. but i will post it here.


What is harder, GT4 rallying? or Richard Burns Rally (PC)? I imagine GT4 is a piece of cake compared to RIchard burns rally.

i havent played richard burns rally though i have heard it like the most accurate rally sim too date, this though is a pure rally sim id expect it too be more real. Saying that the rallying in prolouge too me seemed far more accurate than games like colin mcrae etc, it takes alot of skill too get good laps in GT rally now its become more technical

 

[woodstock827]

rally in GT4 is completely different than in GT3

u can't press hard on the x button in any corners really (dun have DFP) or else u'll just keep spining ur wheels and head straight to the wall... ice rally is even harder....

one trick i find useful in GT4 is to use ur rear end of the car to hit the wall so that there's no penalty time.. kinda cheating but o wells.... hehe...great when u enter a corner too fast.. hehe...

 

[neurokinetik]

rally in GT4 is completely different than in GT3

u can't press hard on the x button in any corners really (dun have DFP) or else u'll just keep spining ur wheels and head straight to the wall... ice rally is even harder....

Keep in mind that te default control setup for GT4 is to use both analog sticks... probably because of the precise throttle and sttering control that you now need.

 

[woodstock827]

i think i can use both buttons AND the sticks....

i got used to the buttons... can do throttle control pretty nicely... (starting my 800+hp SL65 from standstill without TCS is TOUGH without the tires spining by itself...!!!)
stick position feels weird... can't play any game with sticks....GTAs were hard for me to get use to coz of the sticks...

 

[kinigitt]

what I want to know is: Does the rallying in GT4 still suck?

Rallying in GT always seemed like an afterthought to me, as it in no way resembled real rallying, or even rallycross, for that matter. It was unflattering to the physics engine too, so I have a sneaking suspicion that they put it there just to showcase the nice cars. I'd be just as happy with the game if they dropped it altogether, unless the answer to my first question is NO.

CMR, despite having totally fishy physics (I'm talking BIZARRE) is more fun than rallying in GT3, because A) the cars sounded like rally cars B) it took place on rally stages, not closed tracks C) you had a co-driver and proper pace-notes.

RBR totally obliterates any other rally sim around, so I don't even think it can be compared to a side-dish mode in GT4.

btw, anyone here play Toca 2? the rallying in that game was a JOKE! Gravity seemed to be weaker than the moon's!

 

[woodstock827]

if u'r talking about level of difficulty, GT4 rally is much harder...

if u'r talking about realism i can't tell u coz i never went real rallying... i guess it's more real now

 

[Jake Bullet]

I'd say GT4 Rallying is much harder in terms of getting a decent lap time, the wheel's spin like mad in anything powerful. But easier in terms of beating the AI, once you get in front as long as you stay on the driving line, the AI will rarely try overtake you.

 

[Bilgewater]

Rally in GT4 is much different from GT3. You can no longer barrel down a straightaway at 150 mph and then expect to "drift" your way through the turn.

I guess that's getting a bit more realistic. I dunno because I've never tried driving down a dirt road at 150 mph and then turning the car sideways.

 

[KSaiyu]

The tyre's need much more grip if it was to be more realistic, the rear end feels light on every turn and if you spin you can 360 all the away around to not lose as much time because there is no grip (ice and dirt stages)

 

[VEXD]

Ive only played prologue and GT3 and the change from GT3 to GT4P was accompanied by a DFP, ive been using DS2's up until i got Prologue, and now, having gone back to GT3 with my wheel after completing GT4P (All golds including coffee breax, yes even that one with the S2000) I can say the difference in rallying is vast.

The arcade feel of GT3 rallying is fun.
You swoop one way, get the throttle off to aid the turn, then re-apply to turn the other way and swoop that way. Easy. Get it wrong? turn the wheel and floor it. Problem solved.

GT4P is entirely different, the same level of drift can be attained, but the amount of steering input is huge.
The wheel is turning left and right all the time to keep the car straight, and i dont mean small amounts i mean a lot.
When you turn in for a sweeping bend, you need to oversteer, then turn back (opposite lock/countersteer) then turn in again, then repeat, to upset the balance of the car and shift the weight.
This takes some time and lots of practice to even begin to get right, and if you arent using a rally car designed for the dirt then its even harder.

Balancing the car during a drift is made more difficult because of the 900 degrees of steering input you can make, moving the wheel a small amount oftenm results in no direction change at all as you slide, meaning you must put in more turn and then counter steer to get it just right.

I would say its more realistic by far.

But in the real world, it is just added to GT to keep it in line with the other games and their ranges of options.
I would still class it as a part of the whole car, but really its only the headrests, if you see what i mean.
Some would say its essential, and wouldnt buy a car without headrests, some would be too short to care, and buy it without considering them.

I still maintain it is a very rewarding aspect of the game as a whole though, and i will be rallying away as soon as they feel like releasing the game.

 

[KSaiyu]

Even in 900 degree mode, you just have to turn the wheel slightly to one side and you get the tail out, it's really annoying how unrealistic it is now.

 

[kinigitt]

Even in 900 degree mode, you just have to turn the wheel slightly to one side and you get the tail out, it's really annoying how unrealistic it is now.

power oversteer, no? stomp on it and the rear kicks out (in a car with more power going to the back tires.

Or do you mean the tires have no grip whatsoever? that's a scary thought. If you're on gravel, and you have gravel tires, they're supposed to provide you with traction. You know...so you don't kill yourself.

I've been on some dicey gravel roads in a lardass chevy caprice, but even with a big torquey LT-1 and bald summer tires, I managed to move at a good clip and even indulge my inner drifter (if doing lazy powerslides is considered drifting, lol)

 

[KSaiyu]

No, I mean it does it constantly, whatever speed you're going and whatever the throttle condition. The wheels just have no grip and you go sideways all the time.

Or do you mean the tires have no grip whatsoever? that's a scary thought. If you're on gravel, and you have gravel tires, they're supposed to provide you with traction. You know...so you don't kill yourself.

Exactly, it's like the tyres are not right for the job, you just slide everywhere

 

[akak]

Even in 900 degree mode, you just have to turn the wheel slightly to one side and you get the tail out, it's really annoying how unrealistic it is now.

i use the dual shock and can use the buttons pretty well for controling throttle ( they are analog after all ) i dont agree its unrealistic i think its the total oposite, rallying in gt3 was a joke you should never be able too carry that sort of speed around a dirt track without easing off the throttle from time too time. Its probably all personal prefrence but i really think pd made the rally much more real in a 300hp car on lose gravel its going too want too slide, the key too making good corners now is too use the throttle too control the slide this is much more like real life rallying

 

[KSaiyu]

hmmm, I must buy Richard Burns Rally and see how that feels with the DFP, that should give an indication of how GT4 compares to real life rallying.

 

[Scaff]

hmmm, I must buy Richard Burns Rally and see how that feels with the DFP, that should give an indication of how GT4 compares to real life rallying.

I've got RBR and have GT4 Prologue (not yet got GT4 - waiting on the 11/03/05) and I have to say that the rallying in GT has moved on from GT3 in leaps and bounds.

The cars are now a lot harder to control, just as it should be. A WRC spec car is on average kicking out 300bhp and 400 ft/lbs, and even with 4wd and gravel tyres, high levels of grip are never going to exist.

Watch just about any in-car rally footage (Duke video's World Rally In-Car is about £11 from Halfords, double DVD and a good place to start) and you will see that the cars require constant steering correction, even on the straights.

RBR is by far and away the best Rally sim on any format and you very quickly learn that a rally car on gravel requires very gentle throttle input and constant steering correction.

Its not easy, but it does show how much of an improvment has been made in the GT series, as they are closer to the RBR model (yet still a long way from it in terms of true realisim).

 

[akak]

I've got RBR and have GT4 Prologue (not yet got GT4 - waiting on the 11/03/05) and I have to say that the rallying in GT has moved on GT3 in leaps and bounds.

The cars are now a lot harder to control, just as it should be. A WRC spec car is on average kicking out 300bhp and 400 ft/lbs, and even with 4wd and gravel tyres, high levels of grip are never going to exist.

Watch just about any in-car rally footage (Duke video's World Rally In-Car is about £11 from Halfords, double DVD and a good place to start) and you will see that the cars require constant steering correct, even on the straights.

RBR is by far and away the best Rally sim on any format and you very quickly learn that a rally car on gravel requires very gentle throttle input and constant steering correction.

Its not easy, but it does show how much of an improvment has been made in the GT series, as they are closer to the RBR model (yet still a long way from it in terms of true realisim).

Yep its definatly improved, i think some people are not likeing it because its so diffrent too gt3. In gt3 you could tune just about any car eg s2000 and have it beat pure rally cars this isnt very likely, Take a car that isnt 4wd around a rally course in prolouge itll be nearly impossible too control as it should be

Once you get the hang of the new rally physics/handling, it can be very rewarding
taking a corner while controlling the slide using the engine feels lovely,There just seems too be more imput required this time

 

[KSaiyu]

That's the thing - I loved GT4P's rallying improvements, but it seems to have been made worse in GT4, strange really. The cars felt more realistic and had better grip characteristics in GT4P IMO.

 

[akak]

That's the thing - I loved GT4P's rallying improvements, but it seems to have been made worse in GT4, strange really. The cars felt more realistic and had better grip characteristics in GT4P IMO.

I really hope your wrong i think they nailed it in prolouge im going too be really dissapointed if i start up gt4 and find its closer too gt3 than prolouge

things like this make waiting for the game way too painful

 

[KSaiyu]

Well I'm gonna try GT4P with a car that's in GT4 and compare - hopefully it's just because I suck at rallying with a wheel, but I dunno, it just feels different. Should be getting RBR sometime this week as well.

 

[akak]

Well I'm gonna try GT4P with a car that's in GT4 and compare - hopefully it's just because I suck at rallying with a wheel, but I dunno, it just feels different. Should be getting RBR sometime this week as well.

I know this sounds like sacralidge but how about trying the old dual shock out for rally maybe its too do with the faster respone in terms of going lock too lock you can get with the dual shock. Also try it with a pure rally car they seem better setup for it, id like too know if it feels diffrent