GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[slackbladder]

One of the problems with GT4 (or its only problem perhaps) can be summed up in one sentance; "Familiarity breeds contempt".
We've all been playing GT games since 1997. Though they have changed over the years they are still essentially the same. Though that's good for its identity it does mean the gameplay is nearly ten years old. Of course bits have been added and you can't fault GT4's presentation (and in terms of getting the most out of its format GT4 wins easily - it really pushes the PS2 whilst Forza could have done with a bit more polish) but it is still a GT game. You know what to expect as soon as you hear the name.
What Forza does is add some real fun into the whole "driving/racing simulation" mix. After all I have yet to see a Flight simulator or Train simulator (so popular in Japan) that is exciting, though they may exist!
Perhaps for GT5 Yamauchi-san should drop his desire to produce a sim and instead make a game that is fun. Though I do enjoy GT4 a great deal (I prefer the feel of GT4's driving to Forza's) it needs something more because it is being fast superceded by other games like Forza that are proving there is an alternative way.

 

[WeAreN1nja]

...What Forza does is add some real fun into the whole "driving/racing simulation" mix. After all I have yet to see a Flight simulator or Train simulator (so popular in Japan) that is exciting, though they may exist!
Perhaps for GT5 Yamauchi-san should drop his desire to produce a sim and instead make a game that is fun. Though I do enjoy GT4 a great deal (I prefer the feel of GT4's driving to Forza's) it needs something more because it is being fast superceded by other games like Forza that are proving there is an alternative way.

Agreed. Forza makes "sim-style racing" more appealing/accessible to a broader audience. There's no doubt that Yamauchi and PD will have to up the ante because Forza is nipping at their heels in earnest and this is only MS's first attempt...

 

[H3avyM3tal]

The only problems that are in GT4 are caused because the PS2 is old...
Yamauchi (or whats his name) said it himself: Because the system is so old, if they wanted to add something like dmg or watnot, they would have to remove something else. And that was out of the question!

And as for why there are no F,L,P in GT: When Yamauchi asked for a liscense to use them in GT1, they laughed at him and told him it would never work! (ROFL)
Now they are begging to let them in, but because EA has the damn liscense... We only need to wait!

GT5 on PS3 already makes GT4 AND Forza look like arcade games (with all the new possibilities and new hardware)...

And though I am biased towards sony and I hate MS, and I would love to see Forza and I bet it's a whole different experience, I would have to say that either one is Good!
(I only hate it because it's on MS's system, plus GT4 Rox).

 

[McLaren]

The only problems that are in GT4 are caused because the PS2 is old...
Yamauchi (or whats his name) said it himself: Because the system is so old, if they wanted to add something like dmg or watnot, they would have to remove something else. And that was out of the question!

And as for why there are no F,L,P in GT: When Yamauchi asked for a liscense to use them in GT1, they laughed at him and told him it would never work! (ROFL)
Now they are begging to let them in, but because EA has the damn liscense... We only need to wait!

GT5 on PS3 already makes GT4 AND Forza look like arcade games (with all the new possibilities and new hardware)...

And though I am biased towards sony and I hate MS, and I would love to see Forza and I bet it's a whole different experience, I would have to say that either one is Good!
(I only hate it because it's on MS's system, plus GT4 Rox).

1. Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche are out of the license agreement.
2.GT5 can't make GT4 or Forza look like arcade games because nothing about the physics or screenshots have been released.

 

[Max_DC]

I'd just like to know how it can be more powerful than a machine with 3 3GHZ processors.

No seriously, I'm not flaming, I'm just curious.

Well honestly I don't know... but PS3 could have 4 or more Cell chips and I often read articels that the Cell chip is a completly new aproach to chip technology, and I've read that it could do 32 Teraflops (vs 1 Teraflop Xbox 360 ) sounds a bit extreme, but imagine it would only make 10% of this number (32 Tf : I've read it often and in totally differnt places) then it would still be 3 times more than Xbox360... I know this is just one aspect, but Cell could be a real Revolution to the whole industry... or they are just talking... perhaps we know more in 2 days (E3)....

 

[TVRKing]

Yeah. I think we should all wait for E3 before we all start jumping to conclusions. We'll know for sure then which consoles better.

One think though Max - Let's just suppose that Sony did release the PS3 with all that technology. would that not make it alot more expensive?

 

[RSCosworth]

I will propably get flamed because of this, but here goes:

I played Forza at my friend's house yesterday. First, the graphics. I was expecting a lot better. The vision is too blurred and the some of the car models are bad. The 25fps thing going on surprisingly didn't bother me. So GT takes the graphics.

Sounds. I remember people boasting about how good the sounds in Forza are and how GT's sounds suck. This was another letdown. Well, the cars sounded a bit more unique than GT's, but it sounds like the sounds are recorded at a very poor quality. The treble seems to be missing or something like that. GT sounds are crystal clear and just.. better.

I was expecting an über-realistic gameplay because of MS's hype. I think it's very similar to GT's. I was instantly comfortable with it, and trashed my friend's lap record within my three first laps with the game. The cars seem to react a bit slower than in GT. But I like the Forza's gameplay better, but they are very similar to each other.

I test drove the Nürburgring. My friend chose me the BMW LMR car and no aids, I thought that was going to be an overkill, because I'm not too good on Nürburgring. Well, the track seemed odd at first because of the color-palette but I got a hang of it soon. Then I realised, the track seems wider than GT's at points, and there's no bumbs on the roads. This meant you could go very fast around the track, because imo the hardest part with GT's 'Ring with a Le Mans race car is the bumbyness of the track, and you have to be very careful around it. Then I noticed the sense of speed. It's not good. I was in sixth gear going 270km/h into corners, because it didn't feel like I was going fast. So, GT takes it on sense of speed.

I really hate something being something's killer. Forza isn't GT's killer. GT does many things better than Forza, but Forza has it strong points too. I think Forza is an overly hyped, but still a very good game. It is by far the best XBox racer out there. I think it's good that you XBox-players finally got something compareble to GT. They're both much better than average racing games. If I had a XBox, I would buy Forza, no question. But, I'm happy with GT4. But as I said, Forza is also a great game.

Thanks

 

[H3avyM3tal]

Yes I am sure Forza rules too, I really do.

Slackblader: How the hell can gameplay in a racing sim can be ten years old? Wouldn't you say that GT was ahead of it's time? It's something commendable, and frankly, since both games are rocking, you still has to give a few points for what GT accomplished, no?

 

[code_kev]

GT5 on PS3 already makes GT4 AND Forza look like arcade games (with all the new possibilities and new hardware)...

That makes no sense what so ever tbh.

 

[Touring Mars]

OK, so seemingly everyone played Forza round at their mate's house yesterday... and so did I So, for what it's worth, here are my first impressions -

Strengths:-

Tracks - The tracks look stunning, and the lighting and scenery are generally much better than many of GT4's 'blandness'. New York is pretty much the same circuit, but it looks great. Much more moody and city-like than the rather grey circuit in GT4. The point to point road tracks are great too. The 'Ring looks fantastic, but it doesn't have the almost perfect accuracy of GT4...

Racing - The AI looks to be no push over, and it seemingly can 'learn' your style of driving too. 2 player mode is much much more fun than GT4... especially when damage comes into play. And of course, with Xbox live, it promises to be THE racing game of choice for the masses... unless PD get off their ar$es!

Graphics - The Xbox has the PS2 covered on this front... the lighting effects on the tracks and cars give the whole game a much warmer look than the rather stark graphics of GT4... by the same token though, this sometimes makes it a bit tricky to see where you are going...

Customisation - Didn't get a chance to use this, but it's something that GT4 clearly should have had as well... it's like GT's photomode... it's great to have, but it's debatable just how much actual use it is...

Weaknesses:-

Handling - The car handling is nowhere near as realistic as GT4, but as code_kev has repeated pointed out, you feel like your going much faster, but possibly at the expense of realism. You can drift far too easily, but again, it's a question of taste as to whether this is a good or a bad thing.

Damage - As Kent discussed somewhere too, the 'myth' of damage is quite revealing... being able to select what type of damage you get is an excellent idea, but the 'simulation' mode is a bit unrealistic. Sure, you can smash all the windows of your car, and smash the front and back off your car, and the handling is affected. But most of the crashes I had would, in reality, have probably been terminal.

Music - Never thought I'd hear myself say this, but come back GT4, all is forgiven...! The incidental menu music is instrumental rock (even including 'Iron Man' by Black Sabbath) and is an improvement over the 'muzak' used in GT4... but the depth and variety of the 'real' music used in GT4 is far superior... it's a minor grumble though, since most people have the music switched off anyway!

Cars - For me, this is the deal-breaker... Forza has all the Ferrari and Porsche any GT fanboy has ever wanted... but the quality of detail of the cars in general are quite a let down. In GT, the level of detail lavished upon the cars brings the level of realism up so high, you can actually feel the difference between cars. In Forza, you can't. As mentioned many times already, some of the cars just don't look right... the Bentley Continental R for one... also, in 2 player mode, the scaling of the cars looks to be slightly off... my Porsche GT3 looked to be dwarfed my the Ferrari 360...


All in all, the ingredients that have gone into making Forza should have made it a better game than GT4, but in my opinion, it falls short.... still, a wicked game, but I won't be buying an Xbox just to own it myself...

 

[WeAreN1nja]

...Cars - For me, this is the deal-breaker... Forza has all the Ferrari and Porsche any GT fanboy has ever wanted... but the quality of detail of the cars in general are quite a let down. In GT, the level of detail lavished upon the cars brings the level of realism up so high, you can actually feel the difference between cars. In Forza, you can't. As mentioned many times already, some of the cars just don't look right... the Bentley Continental R for one... also, in 2 player mode, the scaling of the cars looks to be slightly off... my Porsche GT3 looked to be dwarfed my the Ferrari 360...

Despite having a whole lot less cars than GT, MS picked some AWESOME cars GT missed (aside from Porsche, Ferrari, etc...). The Veilside Supra, The Abflug Supra, The Subaru M20b... All very awesome, all very rare, all really crappily modeled in-game...

 

[kinigitt]

Despite having a whole lot less cars than GT, MS picked some AWESOME cars GT missed (aside from Porsche, Ferrari, etc...). The Veilside Supra, The Abflug Supra, The Subaru M20b... All very awesome, all very rare, all really crappily modeled in-game...

yeah those tuner cars look like arse. among others.

it's hit or miss, but when they miss, they miss by a mile with the car models.

 

[VIPFREAK]

So far...

Enthusia.... worst
Forza... bad
GT4... better
GTR... best

 

[flynn]

So far...

Enthusia.... worst
Forza... bad
GT4... better
GTR... best

I agree with the order but would not call forza and enthusia "bad"

but yeah that ranking sums it up for me as well

::edit:: well I almost agree..... I enjoy gt4 over gtr

 

[Maven]

It was directed towards Maven more than you

Well, perhaps if you read my post, you would notice that I said that it was alright to compare them.

I was saying that just because there are differences, it doesn't mean that one is better than the other. You may like having damage, someone else may like having a large selection of cars.

I hope that remedial reading class goes well for you.

 

[VIPFREAK]

::edit:: well I almost agree..... I enjoy gt4 over gtr

If it's just because GT4 has more cars that is kinda week.

 

[WeAreN1nja]

Never played GTR, but console-wise:

Forza-good
Enthusia-better
GT4-best

 

[McLaren]

If it's just because GT4 has more cars that is kinda week.

Maybe because its easier to pick up and go than GTR.

 

[kinigitt]

Never played GTR, but console-wise:

Forza-good
Enthusia-better
GT4-best

here's mine:

Forza-Good
Enthusia-Good
GT4-Good

I PREFER enthusia out of the three. sure it lacks the bells and whistles, but those things get old fast anyway. except the tracks. it needs more tracks.

I play GT4 the least, because a) the driving is compromised compared to the other 2 (most of the cars handle so similarly it's not even worth bothering to try out a lot of them) b) the sound is pure garbage c) the way the game progresses is just painful; car collecting isn't a game, it's a hobby. If they were modelled more thoroughly physics-wise, it would be different.

But when I do play it I have fun with it, for short bursts. 2p battles and arcade mode time trials on the nurb (which is far superior to the renditions of it from the other games.)

forza is a lot of fun. but the things that couldve easily been fixed or done better kind of wear on me as I play it. I play it for racing in the career mode. the sound keeps me coming back too. low-quality samples or not, the cars sound NICE. but it needs more interesting tracks.

Pacific shipyards, sunset peninsula and the infield variant, test track, alpine ring...retarded.

 

[F1GTR]

Who wants to start a GT5 vs Forza 2 thread?

 

[code_kev]

OH god no...

 

[Caligula1]

Okay - played GT4, Enthusia and Forza for more than 20 hours a piece.

I rate GT4 as number in first place.
Enthusia second place

and Forza (Flopza) hell definitely 3rd place....why - here goes:

Cars handle very arcadey - feels more like project gotham. Hasn't anyone noticed that the vehicles and tracks look like blooming cartoons!!!

Online play is a joke. Project Gotham 2 and Toca Race Driver 2 are far better online. The reason for this is that you cannot specify same vehicle races. This is a problem because if you race a Class D race nearly everyone will choose the most powerful car, Honda CRX, so if you fancy driving something else then its back of the pack. You cannot force people to race untuned cars to allow for an even grid. Also, although I appreciate that people enjoy tuning cars and tweaking every 100th second off lap times, when online racing I don't want to have to spend half the day running hot laps just so I can be competitive.

Rant over.

 

[194GVan]

...when online racing I don't want to have to spend half the day running hot laps just so I can be competitive.

Although Im a real big fan of "Flopza" I couldnt agree more with this statement. Hopefully its something that could be fixed with a patch.

 

[Anakin]

Cars handle very arcadey - feels more like project gotham. Hasn't anyone noticed that the vehicles and tracks look like blooming cartoons!!!

i say this next sentence in all due respect, i respect you on your opinion but beg to differ.



WTFQ!?!?!?!

Cartoons?!!?

Arcadeey?!??!

What does that make GT4's handling???

 

[Devedander]

Cars handle very arcadey - feels more like project gotham. Hasn't anyone noticed that the vehicles and tracks look like blooming cartoons!!!

Looks cartoony and feels cartoony are not one and the same... are you sure you are not letting the visuals skew your perception of the actual action.

 

[Caligula1]

Looks cartoony and feels cartoony are not one and the same... are you sure you are not letting the visuals skew your perception of the actual action.

The cars and tracks definitely look more "cartoony" than GT4. When I look at say Toca Race Driver 2, the graphics are far more realistic than in Forza.

As for handling? All I can really say is that I race with all aids off and find it too easy to get around the track! I find it more difficult with GT4. As I don't drive in real life then I humbly accept that I cannot necessarily equate realism to ease, but Forza seems too easy to handle compared with GT4 - I find it easier anyway.

Playing Enthusia with aids off provides me with my greatest challenge.

I drive well in Forza, what I'm crap at is tuning - I wouldn't know what a camber setting was if it hit me in the face, in fact I can barely change a tyre in real life! lol

So I'll change the word "arcadey" to "easy" I personally find Forza easier to drive - I'll leave it to you petrol heads to say whether that equates to realism.

Errrr am I making sense here?

 

[VIPFREAK]

The cars and tracks definitely look more "cartoony" than GT4. When I look at say Toca Race Driver 2, the graphics are far more realistic than in Forza.

People don't believe me but if you compare ANY game on a PS2 to anything else except for a PC it looks arcadey... I mean they look realistic but arcadey side and the inputs from playing further support that, even the feel of the controller does. The PS2 has just always felt and looked Simulation Realistic to me.

I think even if you could put GT4 on an Xpos it would be an arcadey version of what the PS2 does.

edit:

If you want further proof look at the renderings of cars between GT4 and any other car game. They ALWAYS look like thin strips near the window openings versus GT4 "depth" to them.

 

[kinigitt]

People don't believe me but if you compare ANY game on a PS2 to anything else except for a PC it looks arcadey... I mean they look realistic but arcadey side and the inputs from playing further support that, even the feel of the controller does. The PS2 has just always felt and looked Simulation Realistic to me.

I think even if you could put GT4 on an Xpos it would be an arcadey version of what the PS2 does.

edit:

If you want further proof look at the renderings of cars between GT4 and any other car game. They ALWAYS look like thin strips near the window openings versus GT4 "depth" to them.

wait for it... waaaaaiiiiit for it.....


YAY FOR YOU!

 

[194GVan]

People don't believe me but if you compare ANY game on a PS2 to anything else except for a PC it looks arcadey... I mean they look realistic but arcadey side and the inputs from playing further support that, even the feel of the controller does. The PS2 has just always felt and looked Simulation Realistic to me.

I think even if you could put GT4 on an Xpos it would be an arcadey version of what the PS2 does.

edit:

If you want further proof look at the renderings of cars between GT4 and any other car game. They ALWAYS look like thin strips near the window openings versus GT4 "depth" to them.

that must be why when you compare the same games on Xbox and PS2, the xbox games consistently get slightly higher marks for graphics. 💡

 

[Devedander]

The cars and tracks definitely look more "cartoony" than GT4. When I look at say Toca Race Driver 2, the graphics are far more realistic than in Forza.

As for handling? All I can really say is that I race with all aids off and find it too easy to get around the track! I find it more difficult with GT4. As I don't drive in real life then I humbly accept that I cannot necessarily equate realism to ease, but Forza seems too easy to handle compared with GT4 - I find it easier anyway.

Playing Enthusia with aids off provides me with my greatest challenge.

I drive well in Forza, what I'm crap at is tuning - I wouldn't know what a camber setting was if it hit me in the face, in fact I can barely change a tyre in real life! lol

So I'll change the word "arcadey" to "easy" I personally find Forza easier to drive - I'll leave it to you petrol heads to say whether that equates to realism.

Errrr am I making sense here?

I think this may be very true for earlier cars, but as you get on in the game if you drive with no assists it gets downright hard to balance speed and control. Also with the AI on hard you really have to be on that line of almost loosing control to win. First impressions may be that it's very easy but I think Forza just wanted to have a bigger gap in difficulty between controlling easy cars vs harder cars.