GT4 WRS Week 4: "Mid-engine Multi-Lap Mayhem"

[Sphinx]

Fair observations, LMY.

I think you gotta be able to use any black stuff (tar/macadam, asphalt, whatever you call it), like that asphalt at the 270 exit at Autumn Ring and like the left side of the straight at Deep Forest (why you would want to, who knows) and the left side of the road down the hill after T1 at DF. That absolutely can't be illegal. It would be ridiculous.

Except for the left side of the straight at DF, which would have no effect on times, everyone would use those other asphalt areas. Could anyone imagine not driving on that asphalt on the left side descending to the tricky right hand bend down from T1? It's hard enough to avoid getting illegal through that right hander, even though it's probably not the fast way around.

I hope the clerk of the course is seeing all this.

I have no doubt that CFM will see all this and I expect he would end up thinking exactly as I am thinking regarding this. 👎

Forget about what was allowed last week or the week before that and concentrate on what is allowed for this week. The WRS is dynamic resulting in unique weekly races. If clairification is sought during the week and CFM states that certain areas are out of bounds or allowed then that's the end of the matter, I don't think it's open for debate. CFM can't please all the people all of the time and therefore if you don't like it then skip this week and run again another week. it's as simple as that, it really is.

 

[Luxy]

cobblestone is cobblestone, makes no difference where it is, It does not count as track

Agreed. Imagine trying to give every bit of cobblestone at the 'Ring individual consideration? It's better for everyone if the rules aren't being (re-)interpreted on a corner by corner basis, it would get ridiculous and takes away from the fun.

 

[ROB 256R]

Agreed. Imagine trying to give every bit of cobblestone at the 'Ring individual consideration? It's better for everyone if the rules aren't being (re-)interpreted on a corner by corner basis, it would get ridiculous and takes away from the fun.

OK, sorry. I was clutching at straws a bit thinking it might be allowed. Although you must admit, those cobblestones were doing a very good impression of a rumble strip

Good job again with the leaderboard Luxy. 👍 These multiple lap races must make for a lot of extra work.

 

[Nuvolari]

I have no doubt that CFM will see all this and I expect he would end up thinking exactly as I am thinking regarding this. 👎

Forget about what was allowed last week or the week before that and concentrate on what is allowed for this week. The WRS is dynamic resulting in unique weekly races. If clairification is sought during the week and CFM states that certain areas are out of bounds or allowed then that's the end of the matter, I don't think it's open for debate. CFM can't please all the people all of the time and therefore if you don't like it then skip this week and run again another week. it's as simple as that, it really is.

So was it allowed last week to use the asphalt beyond the white line exiting the 270 degree turn at Autumn ring? If that's true, and I understand that's what happened, then both Hot***Boi and CFM are now disqualified from the results? Correct or not? Is that what you think should be done? Has anyone implied that?

And since you know what CFM thinks, what do you think he would think about his doing that last week perfectly "legally" and then this week something different is allowed/disallowed.

As you say, "If clarification is sought during the week...", etc, then isn't that indeed what is being done here? There is no "debate", as you say, only questions. Are you declaring that such questions are out of order? Have you somehow been appointed the one to tell others who have reasonable questions to keep their mouths shut?

We're waiting on CFM to address this simple issue, which has been rather well defined, and I'm sure he will do so, in an entirely democratic fashion. And that's what these good folks are waiting for.

That is unless you are proposing, and have been authorized, to speak for him. So, if you are, what is the ruling? Is it legal to drive left, on the BLACK ASPHALT, of the left-most white line on the finishing straight? Is it legal to drive on the BLACK ASPHALT anywhere on the "track" during the race at Deep Forest? If not, where is it illegal?

Maybe you could also explain, if it is your position to do so, why it would be okay to have driven on the asphalt outside of the white line at the exit of the 270 degree turn at Autumn Ring, and yet not be allowed at a similar location on the track at the succeeding event?

With Love and Warmest Regards to the Family,

Tazio

 

[Tyre King]

Thought i had better put in some split's

L1
T1 31.760
T2 1,02.319

L2
T1 25.102
T2 56.163

L3
T1 25.494
T2 55.580

Still a long way to go, i think!

BTW, IMO, This week is this week, last week was last week, and whatever CFM say's goes!

👍

 

[LoveMyMiata]

Yeouch, didn't mean to stir up quite the hornet's nest here with my questions. I was just trying to understand what I saw.

So I better post some times and demonstrate that I'm certainly not vying to take over anybody's first place!

32.028 / 1'03.550
25.358 / 57.198
25.736 / 57.469

Fortunately for my D3 standings, this is only with a couple of trips around the track in full race configuration, and I can see lots of areas ripe for improvement. It's an interesting experience feeling the weight shift through the DFP as this car corners.

 

[Nuvolari]

This is probably another stupid question, but why does anyone post sector times?

What's the benefit?

 

[Kolyana]

Nuv, it gives us something to chase,it let's us know how we're doing compared to everyone else - without knowing the final times (we don't discuss lap times, just some sectors). It's a useful way of knowing if you are off the pace, and who's on it, without giving away the actual final positions.

 

[Nuvolari]

Yeouch, didn't mean to stir up quite the hornet's nest here with my questions. I was just trying to understand what I saw.

So I better post some times and demonstrate that I'm certainly not vying to take over anybody's first place!

32.028 / 1'03.550
25.358 / 57.198
25.736 / 57.469

Fortunately for my D3 standings, this is only with a couple of trips around the track in full race configuration, and I can see lots of areas ripe for improvement. It's an interesting experience feeling the weight shift through the DFP as this car corners.

Don't apologize, LYM. You were completely in order.

 

[Kolyana]

And it keeps everything bubbling and exciting, even during the week ... imagine how quiet it would be if everyone ran their times for the week without discussing them with eachother. This way it keeps things social.

 

[Nuvolari]

Nuv, it gives us something to chase,it let's us know how we're doing compared to everyone else - without knowing the final times (we don't discuss lap times, just some sectors). It's a useful way of knowing if you are off the pace, and who's on it, without giving away the actual final positions.

-------------------

So--if you didn't post your sector times--and only knew other's posted sector times--wouldn't you still know--only their times, and not how to improve your times?

My question really isn't about that, and I understand what you're saying, that other times tell you you gotta pick it up some. My question is actually why would YOU post your times? I can't imagine how that would provide YOU (only) any benefit at all.

Could there be another reason ??????????????????????

Thanks for your reply.

Tazio Tazio Tazio Tazio

-------------------

 

[LoveMyMiata]

So I better post some times and demonstrate that I'm certainly not vying to take over anybody's first place!

Hmmm, after re-reading this, I should clarify. I AM vying to take over somebody's first place (should start with LargeFryz since that's my division). I'm just not a threat to do so!

 

[hOt6o4bOi]

dude nuvolari or w/e too lazy to spell it right sorry

stop trying to pick apart everything, and just play the game and have FUN!!!

and to clarify all the speculation over how the track is being used...

just imagine yourself in a real race car, trying to pull every little second off the clock. You do this by using every little inch of the track~~~~ but legally

Ive seen real racing qualifying sessions where they will put 2 off in the grass just because it allows them to carry that much more speed on their exit. Its unsafe, but a racer will do anything to get that much more out of the track. As long as it is legal~

My question is actually why would YOU post your times? I can't imagine how that would provide YOU (only) any benefit at all.

because it benifits the WRS~ Thats why.........

 

[LoveMyMiata]

-------------------

My question really isn't about that, and I understand what you're saying, that other times tell you you gotta pick it up some. My question is actually why would YOU post your times? I can't imagine how that would provide YOU (only) any benefit at all.
-------------------

Hmmm, should I give away my secret reason for posting times? 💡

I can't say with a straight face (nor would anybody believe me) that I do it for bragging rights So I either post my times because I get an urge to join in with the crowd (abandonment issues from childhood ), or I do it so that my other division people will laugh so loud at my times they'll either forgot how to drive or realize they don't have to try very hard to beat my times. Then I can sneak in at the final hour and post something reasonable.

 

[Kolyana]

-------------------

So--if you didn't post your sector times--and only knew other's posted sector times--wouldn't you still know--only their times, and not how to improve your times?

My question really isn't about that, and I understand what you're saying, that other times tell you you gotta pick it up some. My question is actually why would YOU post your times? I can't imagine how that would provide YOU (only) any benefit at all.

Could there be another reason ??????????????????????

Thanks for your reply.

Tazio Tazio Tazio Tazio

-------------------

Yeah, you could stay quiet - as some do - watch their times and say nothing; you have every right to do that ... but this is one of the social aspects of the entire WRS and part of the fun.

Like last week I knew I was off the pace and it benefitted no one by me discussing my times, but then there were those behind me and we're in friendly competition, so it gave them a target to shoot for.

If enough people do it, it doesn't really matter who doesn't, because the whole jist is "friendly & fun competition" ... I've been playing fisticuffs with ILoveMyMiata for a couple of weeks now and I can see that at the moment my Ts are faster than his ... it gives us a sense that during our practice laps I'm running well (rather than lastw eek, when he killed me) ... but I don't mind if he now takes my times as the incentive to push himself harder and try to catch and overtake me .. isn't that what it's all about? If we were not on the track at the same time, would we not be chasing eachother?

Consider the posting of T times a friendly and fun way to induce competition during these practice laps, an opportunity to gauge the opposition, to cry and lament at some difficult times, or even to boast as you run an all time fast sector.

 

[hOt6o4bOi]

seein that holl01 has caught right up to me, only .081 behind. Im gonna have to give the race another shot, hehe

hey holl01~ have you noticed that for the last 3 weeks
we have been seperated by only hundreths of a second on our last sector times~

Week 2 .057
Week 3 .062
Week 4 .081 ur TOUGH competition man! 👍

 

[LoveMyMiata]

If enough people do it, it doesn't really matter who doesn't, because the whole jist is "friendly & fun competition" ... I've been playing fisticuffs with ILoveMyMiata for a couple of weeks now and I can see that at the moment my Ts are faster than his

Yikes, you are beating me! I see you're about .5 second ahead on the T1 times, but a couple of seconds on T2. Gotta go boogie on my laps now!

I find myself hitting the brakes just a touch to settle the car down before going through the first of the two short tunnels before T2. It's really easy to spin out if unbalanced when braking for the left turn after the tunnel. I'll have to try merely lifting to see if that works well enough.

I don't know if JMitch17 is going to post his times before his final time submittal to CFM, but I know as of last night I was about 5 seconds ahead of him overall race time. I'll walk over to his house after work tonight and goad him on a bit.

 

[Studentdriver]

I'm just wondering, what is the field that everyone is finding to be the easiest? I just ran a couple races (w/o the -10% weight against a Citroen, a Lotus Elan, A Civic, an old Lancer, and an Alfa, and I didn't have anyone getting in the way. This might change when I get to run this again with the reduced weight, though.

 

[Teledriel]

Agree with Nat. Even though I know most of the time, I am towards the bottom, I will still post my times, with questions, if I have, for people to provided feedback. That is part of this great fun also. People can see maybe just by your times, where you might be going wrong, and can point out that "Hey Chris, in that T1-T2 setor .. look out for the turtle on the side of the road, or else he will spin ya if going to fast before that blind curve."

Let alone I chase Nat every week, even though she is 3 - 0 on me.

 

[Kolyana]

Yikes, you are beating me! I see you're about .5 second ahead on the T1 times, but a couple of seconds on T2. Gotta go boogie on my laps now!

I find myself hitting the brakes just a touch to settle the car down before going through the first of the two short tunnels before T2. It's really easy to spin out if unbalanced when braking for the left turn after the tunnel. I'll have to try merely lifting to see if that works well enough.

I don't know if JMitch17 is going to post his times before his final time submittal to CFM, but I know as of last night I was about 5 seconds ahead of him overall race time. I'll walk over to his house after work tonight and goad him on a bit.

No way you guys can let me beat you THIS easily ... c'mon ... step it up a notch, grandpa

 

[Kolyana]

You know, I have no freaking idea what I'm doing on this track and no plan of attack, and yet the T times are steadily coming down.

Maybe I need to have "no plan" everyweek

 

[Nuvolari]

Hmmm, should I give away my secret reason for posting times? 💡

I can't say with a straight face (nor would anybody believe me) that I do it for bragging rights So I either post my times because I get an urge to join in with the crowd (abandonment issues from childhood ), or I do it so that my other division people will laugh so loud at my times they'll either forgot how to drive or realize they don't have to try very hard to beat my times. Then I can sneak in at the final hour and post something reasonable.

This answer I like.

 

[LoveMyMiata]

No way you guys can let me beat you THIS easily ... c'mon ... step it up a notch, grandpa

Ok, that's it. That's a definite glove thrown. Forget the yard work, heck, this is Oregon, it'll probably rain anyway. My goal for this week is now top 5 in D3.

Oh, and btw, nope, no grandpa yet. Every time my oldest and her husband come over and we inflict her siblings on her, she declares "no kids!"

 

[Luxy]

OK, sorry. I was clutching at straws a bit thinking it might be allowed. Although you must admit, those cobblestones were doing a very good impression of a rumble strip

Good job again with the leaderboard Luxy. 👍 These multiple lap races must make for a lot of extra work.

yup, they sure were.

Thanks for the kind words The multi-lappers aren't so bad, just a few extra splits to type in. I'm a little worried about week 6 though ... 11 T-time on the 'Ring

 

[Nuvolari]

dude nuvolari or w/e too lazy to spell it right sorry

stop trying to pick apart everything, and just play the game and have FUN!!!

and to clarify all the speculation over how the track is being used...

just imagine yourself in a real race car, trying to pull every little second off the clock. You do this by using every little inch of the track~~~~ but legally

Ive seen real racing qualifying sessions where they will put 2 off in the grass just because it allows them to carry that much more speed on their exit. Its unsafe, but a racer will do anything to get that much more out of the track. As long as it is legal~


because it benifits the WRS~ Thats why.........

Question for you then, HB:

You're running a championship series.

At the third race in the series, it's legal to drive anywhere you wish as long as you have two tires on black asphalt.

At the fourth race in the series, the rumor is that it may not be legal to drive anywhere you wish as long as you have two tires on black asphalt. At least three drivers speculate that the rumor should be confirmed as fact.

You go to the drivers meeting, and you raise your hand and ask the race steward, "are the rules different this week?"

Three different drivers start offering their diverse opinions about what is legal and what is not, and what should be legal and what should not be, and two other drivers then raise their hands and also ask the race steward, "yeah, what about that? Is it a rumor or what?"

There is a pause while the race steward rolls his eyes skyward, as he's been through this many times before. Then he says, " okay guys, the rule is as follows........."

So the question for you HB is: Was the driver that asked the question guilty of "picking everything apart"?

 

[Nuvolari]

that was allowable because it was tarmac.

in deepforest you are allowed to go over the white line on the pit straight as its tarmac (between left wall and left white line). Im sorry you chucked away faster times but it was discused in week3 that the area between those 2 left handers after T1 was allowed. Pretty much if its tarmac, you can run on it, is normally the rule, unless stated otherwise. Concrete and panted areas (like on le sarthe) should always be clarifed, but if its normaly tarmac then 99 / 100 its fine.

I'm just putting this up for reference. Small Fryz is obviously one with standing, and this is his observation about the issue of driving on the asphalt outside of any white lines, and about past practice. I'm only offering my opinion as a civilian, but I'm with him on his thinking here, and it seems obvious that it makes sense.

There was no other concern that I recall reading about that was not clearly covered by the rules.

Regards to Small Fryz.

 

[Nuvolari]

I'm just wondering, what is the field that everyone is finding to be the easiest? I just ran a couple races (w/o the -10% weight against a Citroen, a Lotus Elan, A Civic, an old Lancer, and an Alfa, and I didn't have anyone getting in the way. This might change when I get to run this again with the reduced weight, though.

This is just my opinion, and it may be worth nothing, but...

I don't necessarily think the important AI car is the third place car. Rather I feel it may be the first place AI car. I think what may be slightly more important than getting by the third place car quickly at the apex of the first right hand bend (although you must pass the third place car immediately after or right at the apex), is getting by the first place car soon enough to get gently over to the left side of the track in order to get a large radius on corner entry before the tunnel. The Lotus is a bit down on gear through this bend, and you might need to wait a bit to find your cog on entry, to avoid loss of momentum. I think if you can do that, you will only need to lift slowly and only partially on entry, find your gear at the right point and hold your radius while quickly getting the hammer back down.

And---I couldn't take advantage of assigning soft tires to the AI cars, for whatever reason. I ended up with hard tires on the field.

 

[Sphinx]

So Nuvolari,
are you a happy chappy now that the penny has dropped or would you like clairification about picking ones nose during the race seeing that it's not clearly defined in the rules for this week?

 

[Small_Fryz]

I must admit this is the first time weve had a problem with such measures.

Its normally pretty clear on whats allowed, but as this is the first few weeks, i guess people need to sus it all out.

I guess the rules are like the english language, a few exceptions here and there.

though its normally pretty easy to figure it out.

 

[Tyre King]

Ok guys and gals!
Fellow Div3ers!

Here are my times for tonite

T1 T2
total......1,21.425......2,52.859....+5.695 👎

L1 ...........31.528......1,02.242
L2 ...........24.639.........54.855
L3 ...........25.258.........55.762

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