- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
GT5 Quick Tune: ***VERSION 3.1***
- Thread starter oppositelock
- 289 comments
- 132,533 views
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
Camber allows you to optimize the contact patch of the tire under cornering. It is best to start with 0 camber and tune everything else. Once you are happy with everything else, come back to camber and change it by 0.5 at a time. Cape Ring is a good test course. The long right hand sweeping turn as well as the loop are good turns to check maximum grip vs speed. First off, you'll want the suspension to cook the front tires first, if the rears overheat first you've dialed in too much oversteer and you'll have trouble keeping the car on the track. Once you've settled that, check speeds on these corners with different camber settings. Don't forget you may need a lap to warm up racing tires. If you start at 0 and increase by 0.5 at a time you should see your speeds increase a little until a point comes where they decrease. You are basically angling the outside tires so they sit flat while turning. Going with high camber also impacts straight line grip so if you find the brake distances increase or experience lack of grip on corner exit, you may want to dial back the camber to find a compromise between corner grip and straight line grip.
Unfortunately, I don't know any mathematical equation that could make selecting the right camber accurate. It really depends on car weight, suspension stiffness, tire selection, ride height, and downforce...all of which factor into how much weight is transfered from one side to the other and what angle the car will be at mid-corner.
If you don't like Cape Ring, I've also tuned camber on Trial Mountain. Lap times will decrease as you get closer to the right setting (duh) and you'll notice that you can carry more speed in the sweeping left hander as you enter the first tunnel. You'll also be able to carry more speed through the second right hander on the uphill before the second tunnel.
- 419
- Ansbach
- GTP_sanmusa74
Hey, just posting here saying I've been using this spreadsheet as a baseline for some of my tunes, so far I have produced great results on FR cars using the numbers straight out of the spreadsheet with very minor tweaking. FF cars need some tweaking of the numbers. Haven't tried AWD or MR cars yet. RR cars in my opinion are the ones that need the most tweaking.
On my RGT your numbers were giving a lot of understeer, and that's with Balance Fine Tune set to high numbers, as high as 9-10. I am struggling with a BTR, as there's a violent transition from understeer to oversteer. I am attempting to control that transition with LSD and gear ratios, but that car is a beast. Once I get the BTR tamed I'll try the CTR. I also have a Karmann Ghia and Beetle awaiting tune, maybe on the lesser powered RR cars your spreadsheet might yield better results. A good amount of time was spent on the RGT tuning the LSD as I felt your spreadsheet gave too much lock, specially on acceleration, even when changing the LSD stregth setting.
While there are only two turbo charged RR cars in the game (correct me if I'm wrong: CTR and BTR) maybe their tunes need to be different enough from the rest of the RR cars to warrant another column on the spreadsheet? Unfortunately taming the CTR is no easy task and finding the sweet mathematical sweet spot for that car might be beyond the capabilities of the spreadsheet, as that car's main problem is how the turbo boost kicks in. Taming the CTR is more a function of driver skills than suspension tuning, I think. Maybe it needs a lot of LSD tune, which is something I'll be exploring.
I find that your spreadhseet is great at making track specific tunes, as I made a tune where the RGT was a killer on Deep Forest, but once I took it elsewhere (Cape Ring, Nordschleife) the tune had way too much understeer. I was able to make a separate tune for Cape Ring that was great on other smooth tracks like Grand Valley, and one for but that one sucked elsewhere. The tune that I settled for and published on my tread is a middle road tune, one that I feel does well in a variety of circuits, I have posted good lap times on several circuits, as well as completing the Nordschleife without going in the grass while at the same time not driving like grandpa... Of course that all goes to illustrate that it pays to have different tunes for different circuits as they all have their own traits that make them different from the others.
I find that the tunes I make without your sheet are usually very tight, while yours feel more compliant. They give a false sense of looseness, while mine feel very rigid. It maybe a function of the higher riding height provided by your sheet in most cases, while my own tunes are usually lower.
On my RGT your numbers were giving a lot of understeer, and that's with Balance Fine Tune set to high numbers, as high as 9-10. I am struggling with a BTR, as there's a violent transition from understeer to oversteer. I am attempting to control that transition with LSD and gear ratios, but that car is a beast. Once I get the BTR tamed I'll try the CTR. I also have a Karmann Ghia and Beetle awaiting tune, maybe on the lesser powered RR cars your spreadsheet might yield better results. A good amount of time was spent on the RGT tuning the LSD as I felt your spreadsheet gave too much lock, specially on acceleration, even when changing the LSD stregth setting.
While there are only two turbo charged RR cars in the game (correct me if I'm wrong: CTR and BTR) maybe their tunes need to be different enough from the rest of the RR cars to warrant another column on the spreadsheet? Unfortunately taming the CTR is no easy task and finding the sweet mathematical sweet spot for that car might be beyond the capabilities of the spreadsheet, as that car's main problem is how the turbo boost kicks in. Taming the CTR is more a function of driver skills than suspension tuning, I think. Maybe it needs a lot of LSD tune, which is something I'll be exploring.
I find that your spreadhseet is great at making track specific tunes, as I made a tune where the RGT was a killer on Deep Forest, but once I took it elsewhere (Cape Ring, Nordschleife) the tune had way too much understeer. I was able to make a separate tune for Cape Ring that was great on other smooth tracks like Grand Valley, and one for but that one sucked elsewhere. The tune that I settled for and published on my tread is a middle road tune, one that I feel does well in a variety of circuits, I have posted good lap times on several circuits, as well as completing the Nordschleife without going in the grass while at the same time not driving like grandpa... Of course that all goes to illustrate that it pays to have different tunes for different circuits as they all have their own traits that make them different from the others.
I find that the tunes I make without your sheet are usually very tight, while yours feel more compliant. They give a false sense of looseness, while mine feel very rigid. It maybe a function of the higher riding height provided by your sheet in most cases, while my own tunes are usually lower.
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
RR cars are definitely a handful, although my personal experience has been one of non-stop oversteer, not understeer, at least on the Yellowbird. I see you cut back the front swaybar on your RGT to suit it to your style, which is good. However, I think Rotary Junkie correctly pointed out that using extreme values in the balance fine tune field can sometimes have the opposite effect for whatever reason. You might want to try setting the springs back to fine tune 5 and bumping up the rear sway instead, as well as make the other tweaks you mentioned.
Otherwise, glad to see another person finding it beneficial. 👍
Otherwise, glad to see another person finding it beneficial. 👍
- 419
- Ansbach
- GTP_sanmusa74
One of the ways I tamed the BTR was by using ballast placement, it took fine tuning to find the optimum weight and position, it was a balancing act! Too much ballast made the car too slow, too far forward induced lots of understeer, too far back... you get the picture.
I am starting to doubt the assumption that the GT5 ballast positions are as I thought: -50 on front axle, 50 on rear axle. I think now that -50 is forward of front axle (bumper?), and 50 aft of rear axle. With ballast at -50 the RUFs understeer a whole lot. -25 seems like the sweet spot for me right now.
I am starting to doubt the assumption that the GT5 ballast positions are as I thought: -50 on front axle, 50 on rear axle. I think now that -50 is forward of front axle (bumper?), and 50 aft of rear axle. With ballast at -50 the RUFs understeer a whole lot. -25 seems like the sweet spot for me right now.
I tuned a mazda roadster for the #9 seasonal events time trial and got a best time of 1:30.509 (104th place). I got tired of banging my head against the wall for several days using trial and error to try and make it faster and never could. basically its a consistent low 1:31 car and when i screw up a lap i run a 1:32.
I tried many times searching for real tuning advice that is really helpful online but its like looking for a needle in a haystack. I don't care what the settings mean in the real world i care about how they effect the car in the game and will they make my car faster and easier to drive. thats all i care about. will it corner awesome without trying and will it NOT roast it tires off thru all the gears and spin uncontrollably when you touch the throttle slightly under 60 mph unless the cars traveling in a perfectly straight line. I like to minimize the need for throttle control as much as possible. hahaha
ANYHOW for the hell of it (altho i highly doubted it would work) i downloaded the Quick Tuner and i applied the default settings Oppositelock suggests and then drove the car. First impression was i had four stilts on each corner of the car. the tuner suggested a ride hieght of plus 12 mm. thats seemed crazy to me, I always lower my ride hieghts. soooo....im expecting major bodyroll because the cars jacked up in the air and the spring rates are significantly lower than what im running on my tune. sway bars are less and the dampers are one click more than mine. my tune is as low as she can go(-15mm).
i take a trial slow paced cruise and hit the first corner. whoa! bodyroll is definitly not an issue and the cars ability to slow down is greatly increased versus my tune. i hit the first rumble strip and its like its not there. (really liked how it felt) the car has a rear spoiler with full down force running on comfort soft tires so im using that suspension setting but of course it understeers so i do what Oppisitelock suggests to try first is stiffen the rear sway bar 1 click and it works altho i now dont have that nice supple ride over the apex rumble strips. anyhow i soldier on and take it for a full blown time attack and run a 1:31.085 on the first lap.
WTF!!!!! I spent about a week of only tuning and running laps around Autumn Ring to make a low consistent 1:31 car. the quick tune car is as good as mine and if your as good a driver you could get on the leader board. that was awesome to me. so im thinking if i tweak the suspension trying some of the other settings maybe it will run faster be a consistant high 1:30 car....sadly the answer is no after spending a day messing with the Quick Tune i couldnt make the car any better than just the default suggested settings and increasing the rear sway 1.
my roadster RS or whatever '07 with Oppisotelocks tune is so gosh darn consistant its scary. hitting check points at like .047 or even .007 seconds difference is crazy but it would do it time and again and again.
I have another car i spent four or 5 days super tuning it to just make it driveable. The Zonda R '09. I read some tunes for it on this forum and guys used it to win Like The Wind...but they put a stage three engine upgrade on it. well the first time i drove my cool new very first awesome car ever in GT5 on my favorite track from GT3 and GT4(laguna) in the very first corner exit the car spins out uncontrolably and smashes into the wall. all my love and new car high evaporated instantly and i felt so freaking cheated....cant win any cool cars, all prize cars are booby prizes and my dumb ass Bobs win me a super bitching awesome car and its a goddamn super rear end tire burner of the worst sort. I almost quit playing GT5 that very instant. 2 days later i attempted the daunting task of relearning how to tune in a GT game. I pretty much forgot everything and how it works and why. drop the ride hieght make the springs stiffer and increase the dampers and sway bars. but how much and why? hellifino. so thru trial and error at laguna and then attempting every once in awhile when i thought i had it dialed in pretty sweet to make a clean run at The Ring (Nurenburg Ring Not a Chef) or whatever its called and crashhing and burning if a tire just touches the grass (instant spin smash into a wall) well i got er all figured out and i could run The Ring faster than my Bob and if i touched the grass it wasnt intant death. I won Like The Wind without the stage 3 engine upgrade. yeah i gotta say my tunes pretty damn good. so is my driving skill...well i like to think so anyhow.
I thought it would be the ultimate car tuning challenge for this Quick Tune Calculator. can it tame the awful over powered highly unstable Zonda POS '09? If it can, can my tune beat it or would my tune get blown away by it?
I decided a little race would be in order. so i pull my Zonda out of the garage and go take a warm up lap. Ive been driving a 197hp mazda POS '07 for two weeks straight trying to be #1 in the world. figured i might need to get used to the car again. well i wasnt impressed at all by my Like The Wind winning tune and i ran 35 seconds slower around The Ring than the last time i set my lap record of 6:55. (7:30 isnt impressive. hahaha)
I went and ran around Autumn ring about 30 times cause i know that line inside and out but it was like a whole new track at first. i was running 5 seconds faster each lap. hahaha so anyways eventually i was driving the car like i knew what i was doing.
so i write down all my tune specs very carefully and then erase them, find the values the Quick Tune asks for. i then applied all the default settings Opposite lock suggests for a race car MR (altho i screwed up and put the brake bias for a FR 6/4 instead of the suggested 8/2) and proceeded to run The Ring. Brakes were pretty damn close to what i had on my tune of 5/5 so that wasnt a problem at all. I expected a big crash and burn fest of the highest magnitude...but that didnt happen. I ran a 7:09.323, never left the track once. I drove pretty hesitantly so I restarted with fresh racing soft tires and ran a "normal" paced lap. again no crash and burn fest. again i didnt leave the track and i ran a 6:57.641. Two seconds slower than my course record. so I restarted again with fresh tires quickly put my ghost in the rear view and went on a balls out run for the best time ive ever set. this time i did briefly leave the track but no spin out instant death crash into the wall just quickly got back on and my ghost didnt even have time to catch up and i put the hammer down and kept on pushing her for all she was worth. I ran a 6:50.338.
WELL NOW THATS PRETTY DAMN GOOD IF YOU ASK ME!....but what about my tune? could i beat the QUICK TUNE? i dont know the quick tune was pretty damn QUICK! so i slapped my tune on the not so POS feeling to me now Zonda R '09 and went to do battle. i quickly put that quick tune ghost in my rear view and i coldly and caculatedly put time into him on every check point driving The Ring fearlessly with ice in my vains and i blew his ass away with a time of 6:41.198 almost 9 seconds!!!! yay me!!!!
to be fair tho i hadnt done any tuning to The Quick tune setup at all. i thought back and i couldnt say if the car was oversteering or understeering. It was a wild ride so maybe some understeer could help tame it. (this is when i discovered i put the wrong default brake setting on altho i was running a level 5 brake setting) anyhow i put a level 4 fine tune on the car and the default level 3 brakes and tried a lap. brakes were to damn strong and trail braking wasnt possible and i was blowing corners and it wasnt pretty. so i went back to level 5 brakes but now they felt to weak so then i tried a level 4 at 7 front 3 rear but still not good trail braking so i went 7 front 4 rear and that was just right or close enough. but i was still blowing corners on the level 4 fine tune so i tried an in between 4 and 5 setting. I feel there is to large a change between levels. need ten or in my case i need 20 to really super fine tune dial in a car using your system. well the level 4.5 i created didnt work i was still blowing some corners so i put the level 5 fine tune back on with my in between level 4 and 5 brake tune of 7 front 4 rear. i then ran a lap of 6:40.333. A NEW RECORD!!! YES!!!
wait my tune can kick your tunes ass any day of the week and i have a secret weapon you dont know about that i learned thru 2 weeks of blood sweat and tears running a thousand or two thousand laps around Autumn Ring in a mazda pos '09. the ideal camber angle. the perfect camber angles. would they work on an out of control tire burning rocket on fire like the Zonda R? if my tune had one flaw it was the camber angles. i had no freaking clue how to set them or where to set them so i cheated....well i looked at a dudes tuning guide and he said for a mid rear car use these so i set mine like that and then tuned the car in and never changed them or experimented with them.
so i put my golden camber angles on the car along with my tune i spent four days working on and ran a lap. holy smokes did the new angles work. the car was so easy to drive and remember im going balls out trying to beat The Quick Tunes ghost and that mofo is QUICK! I no longer feel im riding a crazy ass roller coaster. i feel 100% in control. I beat the quick tunes ghost by .4 seconds roughly, running a lap of 6:39.909.
one hell of a race! but wait to be totally fair how would the quick tune run with my golden camber angles? so i put the quick tune on the car and instead of the recommended angles i use my golden angles (which the quick tune would never calculate) well gosh darnit if the quick tune car didnt feel like the same gosh darn car it no longer felt like a wild roller coaster ride and it was faster to and we beat my blood sweat and tears four day tune by 1.7 seconds....hahahaha i ran a 6:38.230
if you want to say you win Oppisitelock im cool with that. i felt no need to try to beat the new time. im not even increasing my over all time on a huge track with what 50 corners by seconds a lap. thats pretty darn dialed in.
i never did screw with your camber angle calculator so i cant say the tune calculator couldnt dial that in nicer nor did i mess with the LSD tuning. your values were close enough to mine from the get go but whose to say it couldnt be dialed in better? anyhow i got tired racing so hard against myself but it was fun.
6:38.230....i never imagined i would run that fast when i decided to race your tune calculator. wonder if i can find a competitive race online for my car?
oh btw i aint screwing around tuning cars myself except for ones i really love. your calculator is now my best friend.
look for me on the leader boards from now on. (1.9 seconds slower than the top guy
) hahaha theres good and then theres insanely good.
I tried many times searching for real tuning advice that is really helpful online but its like looking for a needle in a haystack. I don't care what the settings mean in the real world i care about how they effect the car in the game and will they make my car faster and easier to drive. thats all i care about. will it corner awesome without trying and will it NOT roast it tires off thru all the gears and spin uncontrollably when you touch the throttle slightly under 60 mph unless the cars traveling in a perfectly straight line. I like to minimize the need for throttle control as much as possible. hahaha
ANYHOW for the hell of it (altho i highly doubted it would work) i downloaded the Quick Tuner and i applied the default settings Oppositelock suggests and then drove the car. First impression was i had four stilts on each corner of the car. the tuner suggested a ride hieght of plus 12 mm. thats seemed crazy to me, I always lower my ride hieghts. soooo....im expecting major bodyroll because the cars jacked up in the air and the spring rates are significantly lower than what im running on my tune. sway bars are less and the dampers are one click more than mine. my tune is as low as she can go(-15mm).
i take a trial slow paced cruise and hit the first corner. whoa! bodyroll is definitly not an issue and the cars ability to slow down is greatly increased versus my tune. i hit the first rumble strip and its like its not there. (really liked how it felt) the car has a rear spoiler with full down force running on comfort soft tires so im using that suspension setting but of course it understeers so i do what Oppisitelock suggests to try first is stiffen the rear sway bar 1 click and it works altho i now dont have that nice supple ride over the apex rumble strips. anyhow i soldier on and take it for a full blown time attack and run a 1:31.085 on the first lap.
WTF!!!!! I spent about a week of only tuning and running laps around Autumn Ring to make a low consistent 1:31 car. the quick tune car is as good as mine and if your as good a driver you could get on the leader board. that was awesome to me. so im thinking if i tweak the suspension trying some of the other settings maybe it will run faster be a consistant high 1:30 car....sadly the answer is no after spending a day messing with the Quick Tune i couldnt make the car any better than just the default suggested settings and increasing the rear sway 1.
my roadster RS or whatever '07 with Oppisotelocks tune is so gosh darn consistant its scary. hitting check points at like .047 or even .007 seconds difference is crazy but it would do it time and again and again.
I have another car i spent four or 5 days super tuning it to just make it driveable. The Zonda R '09. I read some tunes for it on this forum and guys used it to win Like The Wind...but they put a stage three engine upgrade on it. well the first time i drove my cool new very first awesome car ever in GT5 on my favorite track from GT3 and GT4(laguna) in the very first corner exit the car spins out uncontrolably and smashes into the wall. all my love and new car high evaporated instantly and i felt so freaking cheated....cant win any cool cars, all prize cars are booby prizes and my dumb ass Bobs win me a super bitching awesome car and its a goddamn super rear end tire burner of the worst sort. I almost quit playing GT5 that very instant. 2 days later i attempted the daunting task of relearning how to tune in a GT game. I pretty much forgot everything and how it works and why. drop the ride hieght make the springs stiffer and increase the dampers and sway bars. but how much and why? hellifino. so thru trial and error at laguna and then attempting every once in awhile when i thought i had it dialed in pretty sweet to make a clean run at The Ring (Nurenburg Ring Not a Chef) or whatever its called and crashhing and burning if a tire just touches the grass (instant spin smash into a wall) well i got er all figured out and i could run The Ring faster than my Bob and if i touched the grass it wasnt intant death. I won Like The Wind without the stage 3 engine upgrade. yeah i gotta say my tunes pretty damn good. so is my driving skill...well i like to think so anyhow.
I thought it would be the ultimate car tuning challenge for this Quick Tune Calculator. can it tame the awful over powered highly unstable Zonda POS '09? If it can, can my tune beat it or would my tune get blown away by it?
I decided a little race would be in order. so i pull my Zonda out of the garage and go take a warm up lap. Ive been driving a 197hp mazda POS '07 for two weeks straight trying to be #1 in the world. figured i might need to get used to the car again. well i wasnt impressed at all by my Like The Wind winning tune and i ran 35 seconds slower around The Ring than the last time i set my lap record of 6:55. (7:30 isnt impressive. hahaha)
I went and ran around Autumn ring about 30 times cause i know that line inside and out but it was like a whole new track at first. i was running 5 seconds faster each lap. hahaha so anyways eventually i was driving the car like i knew what i was doing.
so i write down all my tune specs very carefully and then erase them, find the values the Quick Tune asks for. i then applied all the default settings Opposite lock suggests for a race car MR (altho i screwed up and put the brake bias for a FR 6/4 instead of the suggested 8/2) and proceeded to run The Ring. Brakes were pretty damn close to what i had on my tune of 5/5 so that wasnt a problem at all. I expected a big crash and burn fest of the highest magnitude...but that didnt happen. I ran a 7:09.323, never left the track once. I drove pretty hesitantly so I restarted with fresh racing soft tires and ran a "normal" paced lap. again no crash and burn fest. again i didnt leave the track and i ran a 6:57.641. Two seconds slower than my course record. so I restarted again with fresh tires quickly put my ghost in the rear view and went on a balls out run for the best time ive ever set. this time i did briefly leave the track but no spin out instant death crash into the wall just quickly got back on and my ghost didnt even have time to catch up and i put the hammer down and kept on pushing her for all she was worth. I ran a 6:50.338.
WELL NOW THATS PRETTY DAMN GOOD IF YOU ASK ME!
....but what about my tune? could i beat the QUICK TUNE? i dont know the quick tune was pretty damn QUICK! so i slapped my tune on the not so POS feeling to me now Zonda R '09 and went to do battle. i quickly put that quick tune ghost in my rear view and i coldly and caculatedly put time into him on every check point driving The Ring fearlessly with ice in my vains and i blew his ass away with a time of 6:41.198 almost 9 seconds!!!! yay me!!!!to be fair tho i hadnt done any tuning to The Quick tune setup at all. i thought back and i couldnt say if the car was oversteering or understeering. It was a wild ride so maybe some understeer could help tame it. (this is when i discovered i put the wrong default brake setting on altho i was running a level 5 brake setting) anyhow i put a level 4 fine tune on the car and the default level 3 brakes and tried a lap. brakes were to damn strong and trail braking wasnt possible and i was blowing corners and it wasnt pretty. so i went back to level 5 brakes but now they felt to weak so then i tried a level 4 at 7 front 3 rear but still not good trail braking so i went 7 front 4 rear and that was just right or close enough. but i was still blowing corners on the level 4 fine tune so i tried an in between 4 and 5 setting. I feel there is to large a change between levels. need ten or in my case i need 20 to really super fine tune dial in a car using your system. well the level 4.5 i created didnt work i was still blowing some corners so i put the level 5 fine tune back on with my in between level 4 and 5 brake tune of 7 front 4 rear. i then ran a lap of 6:40.333. A NEW RECORD!!! YES!!!
wait my tune can kick your tunes ass any day of the week and i have a secret weapon you dont know about that i learned thru 2 weeks of blood sweat and tears running a thousand or two thousand laps around Autumn Ring in a mazda pos '09. the ideal camber angle. the perfect camber angles. would they work on an out of control tire burning rocket on fire like the Zonda R? if my tune had one flaw it was the camber angles. i had no freaking clue how to set them or where to set them so i cheated....well i looked at a dudes tuning guide and he said for a mid rear car use these so i set mine like that and then tuned the car in and never changed them or experimented with them.
so i put my golden camber angles on the car along with my tune i spent four days working on and ran a lap. holy smokes did the new angles work. the car was so easy to drive and remember im going balls out trying to beat The Quick Tunes ghost and that mofo is QUICK! I no longer feel im riding a crazy ass roller coaster. i feel 100% in control. I beat the quick tunes ghost by .4 seconds roughly, running a lap of 6:39.909.
one hell of a race! but wait to be totally fair how would the quick tune run with my golden camber angles? so i put the quick tune on the car and instead of the recommended angles i use my golden angles (which the quick tune would never calculate) well gosh darnit if the quick tune car didnt feel like the same gosh darn car it no longer felt like a wild roller coaster ride and it was faster to and we beat my blood sweat and tears four day tune by 1.7 seconds....hahahaha i ran a 6:38.230
if you want to say you win Oppisitelock im cool with that. i felt no need to try to beat the new time. im not even increasing my over all time on a huge track with what 50 corners by seconds a lap. thats pretty darn dialed in.
i never did screw with your camber angle calculator so i cant say the tune calculator couldnt dial that in nicer nor did i mess with the LSD tuning. your values were close enough to mine from the get go but whose to say it couldnt be dialed in better? anyhow i got tired racing so hard against myself but it was fun.
6:38.230....i never imagined i would run that fast when i decided to race your tune calculator. wonder if i can find a competitive race online for my car?
oh btw i aint screwing around tuning cars myself except for ones i really love. your calculator is now my best friend.
look for me on the leader boards from now on. (1.9 seconds slower than the top guy
) hahaha theres good and then theres insanely good.
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I read all that Jack, but can you summarize? Quick tune was the fastest except for camber? Your fastest lap was with the quick tune suspension and your "magic" camber?
I am still using Quick Tune for street cars in the 450pp range for online racing. It is the perfect starting point for running a stiffer suspension needed for racing tires. I find it can be hit or miss depending on the car.
One issue I have though is the use of rear toe. Occasionally your calculator tells me to set rear toe at 0.50. Whatever you are trying to compensate for on this should be fixed. Street cars are generally faster across the board with a rear to of 0.20 or less. High rear toe causes major understeer on corner entry. It might help stabilize fast cars but dropping it down to 0.20 or even less usually cleans up an otherwise perfect tune.
When it comes to camber, as Jack experienced, you really need to experiment. Change it by 0.5 increments inside the spreadsheet starting at 0 and run a course you are familiar with. Check speeds on banked turns as well as flat turns. Listen to the tires. With racing tires there are essentially two pitches of tire squeal. Low comes first, high comes second. If you instantly get high squeal the camber is way off and your corner grip is suffering.
Now back to my comment about hit or miss...
Lightweight MR cars it is a grand slam. The Autobacs Garaiya, the Toyota MR2, etc come out perfectly with very little tweaking. I just adjust brake balance separate from the spread sheet on these cars because I know how to quickly dial it in.
Middleweight FR cars are great too. My '90 RX7 is very quick but there is still a little more oversteer and rear end issues that needs to be ironed out. I'm sure I could tweak the spreadsheet inputs to improve this.
Middleweight FF cars are good, but not great. I've jumped in a few FF online lobbies and despite having the same performance points, my FF cars cannot keep up. The hardcore FF guys know how to dial in camber and toe and I think your spreadsheet could improve that a little.
Middleweight FAWD cars need work. I used the Audi TT Quattro as an example. Out of the box the car would burn up the rear tires and drift at even the slightest hint of trail braking. So massive oversteer on entry...which then switched to massive understeer mid corner...followed by moderate understeer on corner exit. I couldn't run laps at Trial Mountain without burning up the tires. I gave up and tweaked things on my own but the car never got to a competitive state in the 450pp level. I've also tried the AWD Celica. It was quick on Cote D'Azur (good enough for 2nd out of 16 racers), but couldn't keep up on any other track.
In general though, I still use it for a starting point. I think it does a great job matching ride height, spring rates, and dampers. Occasionally the sway bars need some manual tweaking (as outlined in your instructions) and camber/toe need work.
I'm sure there is a way to add an ideal camber starting point based on vehicle weight and suspension stiffness. I run anywhere between 0.5 and 2.0 with heavier cars getting more camber.
I am still using Quick Tune for street cars in the 450pp range for online racing. It is the perfect starting point for running a stiffer suspension needed for racing tires. I find it can be hit or miss depending on the car.
One issue I have though is the use of rear toe. Occasionally your calculator tells me to set rear toe at 0.50. Whatever you are trying to compensate for on this should be fixed. Street cars are generally faster across the board with a rear to of 0.20 or less. High rear toe causes major understeer on corner entry. It might help stabilize fast cars but dropping it down to 0.20 or even less usually cleans up an otherwise perfect tune.
When it comes to camber, as Jack experienced, you really need to experiment. Change it by 0.5 increments inside the spreadsheet starting at 0 and run a course you are familiar with. Check speeds on banked turns as well as flat turns. Listen to the tires. With racing tires there are essentially two pitches of tire squeal. Low comes first, high comes second. If you instantly get high squeal the camber is way off and your corner grip is suffering.
Now back to my comment about hit or miss...
Lightweight MR cars it is a grand slam. The Autobacs Garaiya, the Toyota MR2, etc come out perfectly with very little tweaking. I just adjust brake balance separate from the spread sheet on these cars because I know how to quickly dial it in.
Middleweight FR cars are great too. My '90 RX7 is very quick but there is still a little more oversteer and rear end issues that needs to be ironed out. I'm sure I could tweak the spreadsheet inputs to improve this.
Middleweight FF cars are good, but not great. I've jumped in a few FF online lobbies and despite having the same performance points, my FF cars cannot keep up. The hardcore FF guys know how to dial in camber and toe and I think your spreadsheet could improve that a little.
Middleweight FAWD cars need work. I used the Audi TT Quattro as an example. Out of the box the car would burn up the rear tires and drift at even the slightest hint of trail braking. So massive oversteer on entry...which then switched to massive understeer mid corner...followed by moderate understeer on corner exit. I couldn't run laps at Trial Mountain without burning up the tires. I gave up and tweaked things on my own but the car never got to a competitive state in the 450pp level. I've also tried the AWD Celica. It was quick on Cote D'Azur (good enough for 2nd out of 16 racers), but couldn't keep up on any other track.
In general though, I still use it for a starting point. I think it does a great job matching ride height, spring rates, and dampers. Occasionally the sway bars need some manual tweaking (as outlined in your instructions) and camber/toe need work.
I'm sure there is a way to add an ideal camber starting point based on vehicle weight and suspension stiffness. I run anywhere between 0.5 and 2.0 with heavier cars getting more camber.
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
Good info, although I think I've dialed back the rear toe as much as I care to. On my own cars I run full +1.00 on RWDs and +0.50 on MAWD/RAWDs, and I do this nearly across the board. The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is the Veyron. I find it to cause neither excessive understeer or tire wear with my driving style, and the cars are plenty fast. As I've said before, the front tires still have the same amount of grip as ever, I simply find that the backs are more prone to follow the fronts. If you overdrive the front tires then you might find yourself less able to coax the back end around to correct the mistake. Chalk this up to driver preference and possibly wheel vs. controller.
Strange about the TT, though. I can't say I've yet to experience an FAWD car with excessive oversteer. The car itself may just be a freak.
Strange about the TT, though. I can't say I've yet to experience an FAWD car with excessive oversteer. The car itself may just be a freak.
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chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I've been testing on tracks like Trial Mountain and Deep Forest using cars that have less than 300hp. Up the power and speed and I imagine that extra toe is needed for high speed stability.
As for the TT, the oversteer was limited to trail braking only. Coasting into a turn was fine, but I tend to brake hard then ease off the pedal slowly as I enter the turn. The TT did not like this one bit. Any turning and braking resulted in red outside rear tire followed by red inside rear tire, thus resulting in oversteer until I took my foot off the brake. The first tunnel at Trial Mountain is a perfect example where the turn is bearing to the left but you have to brake. In the end, your spreadsheet gave me decent ride height, spring, and damper settings though. So I will still be using it for initial tuning.
As for the TT, the oversteer was limited to trail braking only. Coasting into a turn was fine, but I tend to brake hard then ease off the pedal slowly as I enter the turn. The TT did not like this one bit. Any turning and braking resulted in red outside rear tire followed by red inside rear tire, thus resulting in oversteer until I took my foot off the brake. The first tunnel at Trial Mountain is a perfect example where the turn is bearing to the left but you have to brake. In the end, your spreadsheet gave me decent ride height, spring, and damper settings though. So I will still be using it for initial tuning.
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
I see. When I had problems with oversteer under braking with my Lamborghinis I cranked up the LSD strength with good results. I think I used level 3 on the Gallardo and level 4 on the Murcielagos. Not sure how that will effect the mid-corner and exit understeer, but it's worth a shot. Maybe try using the MAWD LSD settings instead, the extra initial torque and decel in the rear might do the trick. You didn't mention what brake balance you're using, but moving the bias forward should help as well.
@ chuyler1 sorry i just didnt want to say the camber angles until i conducted more testing and trying to find better angles but in the end i tune a FR or MR car in very nicely with say 2.0f 2.0r and then put 3.0 front 2.0 rear and for me its magical how much better the tune is to drive and how much faster i am driving it.
@ Oppisitelock i created a tune from your tune calculator default tune and my previous Zonda R tune i raced against eachother and i spent two days just changing 1 number here and testing and then 1 number and so on until i created the sweetest most perfect tune i could and the fastest. im hoping now that i can use your calculator to generate the raw numbers and then apply the differces i like to a tune and then very quickly dial in the differences to make it a super sweet tune. my test car will be the Minolta. if im lucky i can have a super awesome tune relativly quickly.
Heres my Zonda R '09 tuned specifically for Nurburgring best time so far 6:26.671 (created offline and perfect, twitchy steering online and much tighter feeling:tdown
Oil change when new and before i drove it (775 hp but handles perfect and is totally tamed when oil gets dirty and its around 740 or 750)
Racing Soft Tires
ride hieght -30 front -30 rear (suggested -11f -11r)
spring rate 17.4 front 14.6 rear (suggested 14.7 front 17.2 rear)
dampers extension 8 front 6 rear (suggested 7 front 9 rear)
dampers compression 9 front 7 rear (suggested 8 front 8 rear)
sway bars 3 front 2 rear (suggested 5 front 4 rear)
camber 3.0 front 2.0 rear (sugested 2 front 2 rear)
toe 0 front 0 rear (suggested 0 front .39 rear)
brakes 8 front 3 rear (suggested 8 front 2 rear)
LSD 25 initial (suggested 18-36-27)
40 accel
30 deccel
full down force front and rear
transmision set to 230 top speed
6th gear adjusted to .748
I hit 215 mph and probably close to bumping the limiter just as i brake after the final long straightaway.
well now to tune my Minolta.
Edit: before tuning my Minolta i wanted to drive a good lap with the Zonda R '09 and i found it to feel to rear end steering today so i bumped up the front sway one and because i knew that would then feel to understeery to me(just slightly) i increased the front spring rate by .1 and i ran my fastest lap so far of 6:25.598
as far as whether the car is actually better its getting very hard at this point to tell. that one second better lap i would be more inclined to think its better track knowledge than better tuning. its almost like i can't run a good lap unless i change something and hold back just a hair in case it has negative and not positve effects.
still im really happy i found this tune calculator beta test because its made me a decent tuner who knows alot more how to make finer adjustments. the dampers are still a grey area and so is an optimum setting for initial torque and why. ive always done about 20 in FR and MR. i do remember on some cars i had 5 in past gt games but i dont know why anymore.
@ Oppisitelock i created a tune from your tune calculator default tune and my previous Zonda R tune i raced against eachother and i spent two days just changing 1 number here and testing and then 1 number and so on until i created the sweetest most perfect tune i could and the fastest. im hoping now that i can use your calculator to generate the raw numbers and then apply the differces i like to a tune and then very quickly dial in the differences to make it a super sweet tune. my test car will be the Minolta. if im lucky i can have a super awesome tune relativly quickly.
Heres my Zonda R '09 tuned specifically for Nurburgring best time so far 6:26.671 (created offline and perfect, twitchy steering online and much tighter feeling:tdown
Oil change when new and before i drove it (775 hp but handles perfect and is totally tamed when oil gets dirty and its around 740 or 750)
Racing Soft Tires
ride hieght -30 front -30 rear (suggested -11f -11r)
spring rate 17.4 front 14.6 rear (suggested 14.7 front 17.2 rear)
dampers extension 8 front 6 rear (suggested 7 front 9 rear)
dampers compression 9 front 7 rear (suggested 8 front 8 rear)
sway bars 3 front 2 rear (suggested 5 front 4 rear)
camber 3.0 front 2.0 rear (sugested 2 front 2 rear)
toe 0 front 0 rear (suggested 0 front .39 rear)
brakes 8 front 3 rear (suggested 8 front 2 rear)
LSD 25 initial (suggested 18-36-27)
40 accel
30 deccel
full down force front and rear
transmision set to 230 top speed
6th gear adjusted to .748
I hit 215 mph and probably close to bumping the limiter just as i brake after the final long straightaway.
well now to tune my Minolta.
Edit: before tuning my Minolta i wanted to drive a good lap with the Zonda R '09 and i found it to feel to rear end steering today so i bumped up the front sway one and because i knew that would then feel to understeery to me(just slightly) i increased the front spring rate by .1 and i ran my fastest lap so far of 6:25.598
as far as whether the car is actually better its getting very hard at this point to tell. that one second better lap i would be more inclined to think its better track knowledge than better tuning. its almost like i can't run a good lap unless i change something and hold back just a hair in case it has negative and not positve effects.
still im really happy i found this tune calculator beta test because its made me a decent tuner who knows alot more how to make finer adjustments. the dampers are still a grey area and so is an optimum setting for initial torque and why. ive always done about 20 in FR and MR. i do remember on some cars i had 5 in past gt games but i dont know why anymore.
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- 1,994
- Denmark
- GfxJG
Just did 7.29.something on the Nordschleife in my F40 on the suggested tune, but with mods to Ride Height and Brake Balance. Did have two major spinouts (Flugplatz and Aremberg), so you might wnat to minus 20 seconds from that time to be accurate =/ But all around and ok tune, even better after my mods to RH and BB =P
chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
I tried another FAWD car last night, the Mazdaspeed6. I used weight reduction followed by slight power reduction to get exactly 450pp. I installed racing soft tires, then I started an online lobby at Trial Mountain with a 450pp limit.
Setup: Stock suspension and no LSD baseline
Best Lap: 1:34.5
Notes: Car oversteers but handles bumps well. No problems getting on throttle early. Even Brake balance of 5/5 felt fine but tires went red quite often.
Setup: Quick Tune suspension, brake, and LSD settings. Suspension level 3, fine tune level 6. Base camber 1.
Best lap: 1:32.9
Notes:Feels much quicker overall. Perfect for a lobby full of newbs...but my friends are quick and at this point the best time in the lobby was a 1:31 flat set by my friend in an RX7.
Setup: Increased camber to 2
Best lap: 1:31.8
Notes:The extra camber allowed me to run WOT through the last ess turn but it didn't help on the uphill section.
Race: I stayed within 1 second of the RX7 when the race came but he was pulling on me big time and eventually won by 5-10 seconds. The car doesn't suffer from excessive oversteer or understeer, but it really cooks the front tires under hard braking and hard acceleration. Even with the power biased toward the rear the outside front tire turns red exiting turns. I usually run lighter cars so I'm not used to this.
In conclusion, this tune is worlds better than the Audi TT. I think the TT may be a fluke since your settings were much more stable on this car.
Setup: Stock suspension and no LSD baseline
Best Lap: 1:34.5
Notes: Car oversteers but handles bumps well. No problems getting on throttle early. Even Brake balance of 5/5 felt fine but tires went red quite often.
Setup: Quick Tune suspension, brake, and LSD settings. Suspension level 3, fine tune level 6. Base camber 1.
Best lap: 1:32.9
Notes:Feels much quicker overall. Perfect for a lobby full of newbs...but my friends are quick and at this point the best time in the lobby was a 1:31 flat set by my friend in an RX7.
Setup: Increased camber to 2
Best lap: 1:31.8
Notes:The extra camber allowed me to run WOT through the last ess turn but it didn't help on the uphill section.
Race: I stayed within 1 second of the RX7 when the race came but he was pulling on me big time and eventually won by 5-10 seconds. The car doesn't suffer from excessive oversteer or understeer, but it really cooks the front tires under hard braking and hard acceleration. Even with the power biased toward the rear the outside front tire turns red exiting turns. I usually run lighter cars so I'm not used to this.
In conclusion, this tune is worlds better than the Audi TT. I think the TT may be a fluke since your settings were much more stable on this car.
- 119
- France
- Clark_33700
I have done several trials with your sheet and it's great 👍.
I'm not a tuner and it gives balanced results that allows to have fun.
I have no time to spend hours in setting up cars and it's a great idea to help others to build quickly a setup.
I start always with LSD=2/Balance=5/Suspension=3/Camber=2.0
The results depend on car type on my experience (for my driving):
- FR = I am sometimes running better times than with online garage tunes (suprising at beginning due to higher RH and softer Suspension)
Surprising, on the amount of rear toe but as i don't master those things even if i understand the different parameters.
- MR = Good results with Race Cars
- FAWD = Massive understeer (generally except Lancer Evo IX RM for example) and when playing with balance, it transforms the car to FR (as i feel).
I find that the tunes are generally warming up front tires very quickly but i can breake without burning them.
Playing with Front toe, generally end up with 0.0 as you explained in one of your posts (difficult for me to balance benefit/drawbacks between corner In and Out) based on your setup parameters.
Starting testing with FF.
It is interesting online (able to be 3th or 4th) when they don't run Stop Car.
Anyway when you enter a lobby like 1080kg/640HP (very precise) you know that guy has the perfect tune for this combination and you don't race against him except you are a very good tuner (that's another point).
I'm not a tuner and it gives balanced results that allows to have fun.
I have no time to spend hours in setting up cars and it's a great idea to help others to build quickly a setup
.I start always with LSD=2/Balance=5/Suspension=3/Camber=2.0
The results depend on car type on my experience (for my driving):
- FR = I am sometimes running better times than with online garage tunes (suprising at beginning due to higher RH and softer Suspension)
Surprising, on the amount of rear toe but as i don't master those things even if i understand the different parameters.
- MR = Good results with Race Cars
- FAWD = Massive understeer (generally except Lancer Evo IX RM for example) and when playing with balance, it transforms the car to FR (as i feel).
I find that the tunes are generally warming up front tires very quickly but i can breake without burning them.
Playing with Front toe, generally end up with 0.0 as you explained in one of your posts (difficult for me to balance benefit/drawbacks between corner In and Out) based on your setup parameters.
Starting testing with FF.
It is interesting online (able to be 3th or 4th) when they don't run Stop Car.
Anyway when you enter a lobby like 1080kg/640HP (very precise) you know that guy has the perfect tune for this combination and you don't race against him except you are a very good tuner (that's another point).
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chuyler1
Premium
- 4,548
- New Hampshire
- chuyler1
That's why I stick to power point restricted rooms. It gives you more options to choose from. Build a car for 450, 500, 550, 600, etc and you'll be able to find plenty of rooms to race in. However not all cars at the same pp level are created equal. This spreadsheet does a good job getting the suspension and other settings dialed in, but you'll have to pay careful attention to the mods you install to maximize torque and hp in your operating rpm range. For example, a supercharger gives you max torque at 5,500rpm but you race between 6,500-8,500rpm. A turbocharger might give you max torque at 6,500rpm and therefore is a better option.
- 119
- France
- Clark_33700
@chuyler1
That's an interesting idea.
I never worked on PP as it's like some strange computations that does not end generally with balanced results between cars. But i like the possibility of being able to drive my favorite cars. I also keep the idea on selecting cars on PP + Torque band.
Beyond that, there is a bug since last update where the PP points of existing cars of your garage (Standard at least) are not recomputed until you edit them (all my garage PP are screwed).
@oppositelock
Well, you will may be laugh but i'm discovering how the LSD can help
.
I never played with this thing as i don't understand in depth how it influences the car (beyond the fact that it locks at one moment the independant rotation of opposite wheels and so ... ?)
Coming back to FAWD behavior, i spent a lot of time changing parameters on a GT-R V Spec II Nur and at one moment i started playing with LSD, higher values helped me to make the car turn. I have even modiied your sheet to be able to change Front/Rear LSD values indepedently for AWD cars.
So the FAWD car understeer correction was way easier when i combined it with LSD settings (initially staying with LSD = 2 all the time).
PS: Finally, I have started reading Scaff tuning document for GT-4 on LSD.
That's an interesting idea.
I never worked on PP as it's like some strange computations that does not end generally with balanced results between cars. But i like the possibility of being able to drive my favorite cars. I also keep the idea on selecting cars on PP + Torque band.
Beyond that, there is a bug since last update where the PP points of existing cars of your garage (Standard at least) are not recomputed until you edit them (all my garage PP are screwed).
@oppositelock
Well, you will may be laugh but i'm discovering how the LSD can help
.I never played with this thing as i don't understand in depth how it influences the car (beyond the fact that it locks at one moment the independant rotation of opposite wheels and so ... ?)
Coming back to FAWD behavior, i spent a lot of time changing parameters on a GT-R V Spec II Nur and at one moment i started playing with LSD, higher values helped me to make the car turn. I have even modiied your sheet to be able to change Front/Rear LSD values indepedently for AWD cars.
So the FAWD car understeer correction was way easier when i combined it with LSD settings (initially staying with LSD = 2 all the time).
PS: Finally, I have started reading Scaff tuning document for GT-4 on LSD.
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- 863
- oops_sorryy
I've downloaded your quick tune sheet a while ago, and I have to say, it's really helping me tune some of my more rebellious cars (MR2 GTS/Supra RZ). But what I'm more interested in is the Transmission Tuning Spreadsheet. I don't really understand how to tune a tranny in GT5 yet so this is going to help me big time! Thanks for posting these things they'll help a lot of people out.
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
Right on, man. 👍
- 863
- oops_sorryy
I call for sticky!
- 383
- gto_alt
I tried this today with 2 cars. I was testing on deep forest. It might not be the best course for testing but I have a league race Monday so I wanted to get in practice as well. I am sure I had to make changes to accommodate the elevation changes that most courses would not require.
1) Merc SLS '10 on sports soft - Results: excellent
Originally I settled on Tharain's Tuning Temple's tune found here as the best:
http://www.gt5-tuning.com/index.php?title=Mercedes-Benz_SLS_AMG_'10
I set the quick tune for 3 and other parameters stock. Plugged in the tune and trimmed almost a sec of my lap time. Ok, not bad. From there I made minor changes to handle the course specifics (I think AR rear +1 and maybe dampers +-1) and my poor driving (reduced LSD setting). Lap times didn't come down but the car became slightly more stable.
Overall amazing result that I didn't think a general purpose spreadsheet could produce.
2) Ferrari 330 P4 on racing soft - Results: terrible
Let me say ahead of time I am not quite up to the challenge of this car. In fact many MR cars give me a headache. In other words I am not sure how useful these comments might be.
I used the tune here to start:
http://www.gt5-tuning.com/index.php?title=Ferrari_330_P4_Race_Car_‘67
Really I can't get the car around the track very well with this tune. In many parts of the course it does quite well and it is serious fun to drive. However, when it twitches I completely lose it with this car. Kind of unpredictable.
I spent quite a bit of time with the quick tune, going though tune levels 2 to 4, adding lower values for fine tune. I fell like I went though about as many possibilities as I could and while some were better than others, nothing really worked for me and nothing felt better than the tune from gt5-tuning.com. The quick tunes got rid of the unpredictability but added other unwanted aspects.
After a lot of laps and my own tweaking I reset to default suspension values and pulled of the best lap time of the day.
The main problem I encountered with this car and the Quick Tunes + tweaks was that the car was either doing well on the flat parts and crashing on the dips or the other way around. Playing with dampers I could get the cars to compose well on the hills but then braking downhill into the first turn would end up sideways.
Any advise on using the quick tune sheet to handle something like this better?
But overall I am really impressed with what I saw with the SLS. Maybe the 330 is too extreme a case or maybe I am an idiot driver - but in any case, please make an Android version
1) Merc SLS '10 on sports soft - Results: excellent
Originally I settled on Tharain's Tuning Temple's tune found here as the best:
http://www.gt5-tuning.com/index.php?title=Mercedes-Benz_SLS_AMG_'10
I set the quick tune for 3 and other parameters stock. Plugged in the tune and trimmed almost a sec of my lap time. Ok, not bad. From there I made minor changes to handle the course specifics (I think AR rear +1 and maybe dampers +-1) and my poor driving (reduced LSD setting). Lap times didn't come down but the car became slightly more stable.
Overall amazing result that I didn't think a general purpose spreadsheet could produce.
2) Ferrari 330 P4 on racing soft - Results: terrible
Let me say ahead of time I am not quite up to the challenge of this car. In fact many MR cars give me a headache. In other words I am not sure how useful these comments might be.
I used the tune here to start:
http://www.gt5-tuning.com/index.php?title=Ferrari_330_P4_Race_Car_‘67
Really I can't get the car around the track very well with this tune. In many parts of the course it does quite well and it is serious fun to drive. However, when it twitches I completely lose it with this car. Kind of unpredictable.
I spent quite a bit of time with the quick tune, going though tune levels 2 to 4, adding lower values for fine tune. I fell like I went though about as many possibilities as I could and while some were better than others, nothing really worked for me and nothing felt better than the tune from gt5-tuning.com. The quick tunes got rid of the unpredictability but added other unwanted aspects.
After a lot of laps and my own tweaking I reset to default suspension values and pulled of the best lap time of the day.
The main problem I encountered with this car and the Quick Tunes + tweaks was that the car was either doing well on the flat parts and crashing on the dips or the other way around. Playing with dampers I could get the cars to compose well on the hills but then braking downhill into the first turn would end up sideways.
Any advise on using the quick tune sheet to handle something like this better?
But overall I am really impressed with what I saw with the SLS. Maybe the 330 is too extreme a case or maybe I am an idiot driver - but in any case, please make an Android version
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
I don't have that particular Ferrari so I'm not quite sure what problems you're experiencing. Your description is a little vague, maybe you can be a little more specific. It sort of sounds like the car is loose, especially under braking, but maybe I'm misreading it.
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
I see. Personally I find high damper settings to increase stability over crests and the like, which sounds counterintuitive, but it works for me. You might want to try level 4 dampers on a level 2 or 3 setup, for example. Secondly, I like a lot of rear toe-in on unstable cars, way more than what the sheet actually calls for. Thirdly, if the car is loose under braking I tend to use a higher LSD level.
- 383
- gto_alt
Ok, thanks for the ideas - I'll give them a try.
Great work btw. Any serious though to building a smartphone app? (Android?)
- 864
- NorCal
- oppositelock27
- 383
- gto_alt
I fixed the main issue with the car by adding more rear downforce than front and then followed your advise. L2 tuning + L4 dampers worked the best. I tried +1 on dampers (L5?) and seemed pretty good. I could not feel any difference between +.30/+.50/+1.00 rear toe.
Thanks, the car is running pretty well now.
I tried tuning my Minolta race car for Nurbring using the tune calculator. I ran an initial lap of 6:10 with the car set up "stock". I then applied the begginning values suggested by the tune calculator and well...long story short the tune calculator just couldnt beat the stock settings time. It was always slower no matter what i tried.
I then tuned it myself and i found it very hard to improve on the stock tune much but after alot of tweaking and many many many laps i shaved 6 seconds off my lap times and ran a 6:04.
After this incident i lost faith in the tune calculator.
I then tried to win Seasonal time trial #10 using the Ginetta G4 at Trial Mountain. After exhaustively tuning it thru trial and error I ran a 1:47.1xx and then hit a tuning plateau, couldnt go any faster no matter what...so i thought for the hell of it i would try the tune calculator again and maybe see a new direction to go or something. The car had sports tires so I tried a level 2 tune but when i first drove it the car felt so heavy and slow but it didnt burn the tires off and thats half the battle in tuning a car in the first place. I then reasoned the car only weighs 425kg so maybe a level 1 softer suspension would work better. Boy did it! felt remarkably similiar to my tune and i drove it around the track just loving driving it. When i tune i go hard as i can until the tires fail...most loose major performance after 1 or 2 or 3 laps...not your car! i set my fastest time on lap 6 and i have to say i wasnt hating my driving experience on the previous 5 lol. I ran a 1:47.667 which is pretty darn good. the previous laps were low 1:48.1 or .2(very consistant car) if i were to tune for an endurance race to maximize tire wear and still go very fast i would tune it JUST LIKE THE TUNE CALCULATOR was my thought while running my laps waiting for the tires to loosen up for that magic fast lap time.
I then tried to make the tune calculator car faster using the tune calculator itself and trying diferent settings it suggests but...couldnt. so i went back to my car and tried tuning it to go faster(HARD)
the next day i drove the tune calculator car again and ran a 1:47.235
I then tried making my car faster... the best i could run was a 1:46.1 without any driving aids and abs at 1 with my DS3 controller. I have an old steering wheel and i litterally cant drive with it but the guy in 1st was running a 1:44.9 with a wheel and strong force on and he seemed to be able to pull more G Forces thru the corners than me yet when i tuned my car to stick to the road better i would go slower and that was quite a conundrum to me. i then started tuning from scratch using my old wheel and strong force (steering aid) turned on. well i could actually drive without doing a slow turn into the wall if i broke rear wheel traction out of the corner when pushing the car to its limits and beyond. I roughed a tune in pretty nicely at 2mm higher body hieght than what i was using and the car seemed to be easy to drive with a wheel and only 1 second slower than my DS3 time(I am WAAAAY better with a DS3) so i was all pumped to kick some ass now with the controller. I went into the driver aid menu and turned STRONG force off and then drove the car and retuned it slightly and now im right on the leaders back bumper and then i made one adjustment and im beating him to the first check point consistantly. WELL! all of a sudden i feel im a tuning god. i then set a lap time of 1:45.825
Im all pumped thinking im gonna beat that cheating wheel driving STRONG force using sob and WIN! I then looked at my stats on the leaderboard and damn near died. ****ing Strong force was turned on. I tried driving the tune without strong force and the car sucked big time. i wasnt a tuning god after all
I then spent several days trying to beat my strong force cheater time and i never could beat it. on the last day i said screw it and tried to drive with strong force on and beat the guy in 1st. that car was extremely extremly difficult for me to drive. like all driving aids it gives you one advantage(less throttle control coming out of a corner, you can get on the gas way harder and sooner) but makes actual driving way harder by about a factor of 3.
on the last day of the time trial i had a concious breakthrough of just why this particular car was way faster when i accidently drifted the entire corner leading into the tunnel on the long straight away on trial mountain. the reason why i could once in a blue moon set a 1 second faster lap time was because i was drifting god damn near every corner but not really realising it until i did the ultimate drift and shocked the hell out of myself. then i studied the leaders replay...sure as **** their isnt one corner, one section he doesnt drift...slight drift, pure drift pro drift not smoke your tires red and get the car all sideways drift. slow in fast out is ********. not the fastest way. pushing your car harder is not the way. BUT pushing your car relatively hard AND drifting almost every corner just slighly has the effect of letting you pull much higher g forces in effect and go alot faster.
sorry for the long post yet again but once i understood why i could go way faster i then drove the Tune Calculator car and after turning the LSD to 5-5-5and setting the brake balance to 2 front 3 rear I then set a time on my 9TH lap of 1:46.910 which would have placed me at 54th on the leaderboard. (incredible how im pushing the car to its max and im drifting slightly every corner but im not destroying the tires!!!) AGAIN i felt if i were to tune for an endurance race and wanted to go as fast as possible and maximize my tire wear at the same time this would be THE TUNE OF ALL TUNES!!! what a pleasure to drive it. it was fun and easy and yet fast. anything faster and the driving effort required seems to go up exponentially. to run just tenths of a second faster means you gotta go WAAAAY FASTER!!!
as it was i ended up finishing 14th(strong force) on the leader board just 2 tenths of a second out of tenth place and .9 seconds behind the leader. there is one corner i just couldnt get the hang of drifting correctly which i estimate cost me approximatly .4 tenths of a second. if i drive thru it without drifting at all... it could cost me 1 second easy.
i figure one more day of the contest and im sure i would have finished in the top ten.
it was a huge revalation to me the speed of drifting and i never really knew conciously i was doing it at all to be honest when i had the hammer down so to speak. i just thought i had the hammer way way way down when i would set my fastest lap times.
now that i conciously learned the ultimate fastest driving technique i imagine i will get much better at tuning for it specifically not just trial and error this car is faster... i dont know why its faster it just is now. hahahaha
I STRONGLY FEEL THE TUNE CALCULATOR CAR COULD BE TWEAKED IN SOME MINOR WAY TO BE JUST AS FAST IF NOT FASTER THAN MY BEST NO DRIVERS AID TUNE. i just dont know how exept thru trial and error and i wasnt willing to put the time into it when i always seemed to have a car that was faster than it by a wide margin.
my own from scratch tune and no aids best time 1:46.1xx (22nd place) Tune calculator no aids suspension setup as suggested but with the LSD turned all the way down(think it only really slows you down but makes driving easier) brake balance set with slight rear favor and as low as possible yet with enough power to stop the car but wont allow the brakes to lock up(unless i want it to on the rear, and i do on some corners). 1:46.910 (54th place)
if i had to guess the answer to making it faster might be in the damper settings a slight change can sometimes give you huge changes in a cars ultimate fastest lap times but i just dont know how or why they influence the cars behavior...just trial and error and then WHOA holy hell this car is FAST!
also i experimented with rear toe and all i could figure out was rear toe in either direction actually slowed me down so maybe removing the toe from the tune calculator car might give you some more time as well but then you would have to compensate for the new oversteer and then...well you might as well start from scratch...hahahaha
Im hoping i can "backwards engineer" the Tune Calculator and create a calculator myself(im pretty sure i see the pattern after messing with it and how it soves a cars "stock" fully customisable suspension set up problems and how i go about solving them, there is a rough pattern to what i do because of the body i hieght i choose, low as she can go)
when the tune calculator gets a car right boy is that car a dream to drive.
i might slap a tune calculator tune on a pickup truck and see if i can set a good time this time trial...the track sucks imo for the vehicle. some really really tight hairpin turns...not fun at all. a real tire roasting fest and i dont enjoy that much. since i have zero experience tuning 4wd in GT5 ill let the calculator have first crack at this one.
I then tuned it myself and i found it very hard to improve on the stock tune much but after alot of tweaking and many many many laps i shaved 6 seconds off my lap times and ran a 6:04.
After this incident i lost faith in the tune calculator.
I then tried to win Seasonal time trial #10 using the Ginetta G4 at Trial Mountain. After exhaustively tuning it thru trial and error I ran a 1:47.1xx and then hit a tuning plateau, couldnt go any faster no matter what...so i thought for the hell of it i would try the tune calculator again and maybe see a new direction to go or something. The car had sports tires so I tried a level 2 tune but when i first drove it the car felt so heavy and slow but it didnt burn the tires off and thats half the battle in tuning a car in the first place. I then reasoned the car only weighs 425kg so maybe a level 1 softer suspension would work better. Boy did it! felt remarkably similiar to my tune and i drove it around the track just loving driving it. When i tune i go hard as i can until the tires fail...most loose major performance after 1 or 2 or 3 laps...not your car! i set my fastest time on lap 6 and i have to say i wasnt hating my driving experience on the previous 5 lol. I ran a 1:47.667 which is pretty darn good. the previous laps were low 1:48.1 or .2(very consistant car) if i were to tune for an endurance race to maximize tire wear and still go very fast i would tune it JUST LIKE THE TUNE CALCULATOR was my thought while running my laps waiting for the tires to loosen up for that magic fast lap time.
I then tried to make the tune calculator car faster using the tune calculator itself and trying diferent settings it suggests but...couldnt. so i went back to my car and tried tuning it to go faster(HARD)
the next day i drove the tune calculator car again and ran a 1:47.235
I then tried making my car faster... the best i could run was a 1:46.1 without any driving aids and abs at 1 with my DS3 controller. I have an old steering wheel and i litterally cant drive with it but the guy in 1st was running a 1:44.9 with a wheel and strong force on and he seemed to be able to pull more G Forces thru the corners than me yet when i tuned my car to stick to the road better i would go slower and that was quite a conundrum to me. i then started tuning from scratch using my old wheel and strong force (steering aid) turned on. well i could actually drive without doing a slow turn into the wall if i broke rear wheel traction out of the corner when pushing the car to its limits and beyond. I roughed a tune in pretty nicely at 2mm higher body hieght than what i was using and the car seemed to be easy to drive with a wheel and only 1 second slower than my DS3 time(I am WAAAAY better with a DS3) so i was all pumped to kick some ass now with the controller. I went into the driver aid menu and turned STRONG force off and then drove the car and retuned it slightly and now im right on the leaders back bumper and then i made one adjustment and im beating him to the first check point consistantly. WELL! all of a sudden i feel im a tuning god. i then set a lap time of 1:45.825
Im all pumped thinking im gonna beat that cheating wheel driving STRONG force using sob and WIN! I then looked at my stats on the leaderboard and damn near died. ****ing Strong force was turned on. I tried driving the tune without strong force and the car sucked big time. i wasnt a tuning god after all
I then spent several days trying to beat my strong force cheater time and i never could beat it. on the last day i said screw it and tried to drive with strong force on and beat the guy in 1st. that car was extremely extremly difficult for me to drive. like all driving aids it gives you one advantage(less throttle control coming out of a corner, you can get on the gas way harder and sooner) but makes actual driving way harder by about a factor of 3.
on the last day of the time trial i had a concious breakthrough of just why this particular car was way faster when i accidently drifted the entire corner leading into the tunnel on the long straight away on trial mountain. the reason why i could once in a blue moon set a 1 second faster lap time was because i was drifting god damn near every corner but not really realising it until i did the ultimate drift and shocked the hell out of myself. then i studied the leaders replay...sure as **** their isnt one corner, one section he doesnt drift...slight drift, pure drift pro drift not smoke your tires red and get the car all sideways drift. slow in fast out is ********. not the fastest way. pushing your car harder is not the way. BUT pushing your car relatively hard AND drifting almost every corner just slighly has the effect of letting you pull much higher g forces in effect and go alot faster.
sorry for the long post yet again but once i understood why i could go way faster i then drove the Tune Calculator car and after turning the LSD to 5-5-5and setting the brake balance to 2 front 3 rear I then set a time on my 9TH lap of 1:46.910 which would have placed me at 54th on the leaderboard. (incredible how im pushing the car to its max and im drifting slightly every corner but im not destroying the tires!!!) AGAIN i felt if i were to tune for an endurance race and wanted to go as fast as possible and maximize my tire wear at the same time this would be THE TUNE OF ALL TUNES!!! what a pleasure to drive it. it was fun and easy and yet fast. anything faster and the driving effort required seems to go up exponentially. to run just tenths of a second faster means you gotta go WAAAAY FASTER!!!
as it was i ended up finishing 14th(strong force) on the leader board just 2 tenths of a second out of tenth place and .9 seconds behind the leader. there is one corner i just couldnt get the hang of drifting correctly which i estimate cost me approximatly .4 tenths of a second. if i drive thru it without drifting at all... it could cost me 1 second easy.
i figure one more day of the contest and im sure i would have finished in the top ten.
it was a huge revalation to me the speed of drifting and i never really knew conciously i was doing it at all to be honest when i had the hammer down so to speak. i just thought i had the hammer way way way down when i would set my fastest lap times.
now that i conciously learned the ultimate fastest driving technique i imagine i will get much better at tuning for it specifically not just trial and error this car is faster... i dont know why its faster it just is now. hahahaha
I STRONGLY FEEL THE TUNE CALCULATOR CAR COULD BE TWEAKED IN SOME MINOR WAY TO BE JUST AS FAST IF NOT FASTER THAN MY BEST NO DRIVERS AID TUNE. i just dont know how exept thru trial and error and i wasnt willing to put the time into it when i always seemed to have a car that was faster than it by a wide margin.
my own from scratch tune and no aids best time 1:46.1xx (22nd place) Tune calculator no aids suspension setup as suggested but with the LSD turned all the way down(think it only really slows you down but makes driving easier) brake balance set with slight rear favor and as low as possible yet with enough power to stop the car but wont allow the brakes to lock up(unless i want it to on the rear, and i do on some corners). 1:46.910 (54th place)
if i had to guess the answer to making it faster might be in the damper settings a slight change can sometimes give you huge changes in a cars ultimate fastest lap times but i just dont know how or why they influence the cars behavior...just trial and error and then WHOA holy hell this car is FAST!
also i experimented with rear toe and all i could figure out was rear toe in either direction actually slowed me down so maybe removing the toe from the tune calculator car might give you some more time as well but then you would have to compensate for the new oversteer and then...well you might as well start from scratch...hahahaha
Im hoping i can "backwards engineer" the Tune Calculator and create a calculator myself(im pretty sure i see the pattern after messing with it and how it soves a cars "stock" fully customisable suspension set up problems and how i go about solving them, there is a rough pattern to what i do because of the body i hieght i choose, low as she can go)
when the tune calculator gets a car right boy is that car a dream to drive.
i might slap a tune calculator tune on a pickup truck and see if i can set a good time this time trial...the track sucks imo for the vehicle. some really really tight hairpin turns...not fun at all. a real tire roasting fest and i dont enjoy that much. since i have zero experience tuning 4wd in GT5 ill let the calculator have first crack at this one.
