GT6 @ gamecom 2013

[Griffith500]

*I play GT Academy demo.
*I form an opinion of it, based on my time playing it.
GT Academy demo is not primary evidence (source Griffith500)

*I play GT6.
*I form an opinion of it, based on my time playing it.
GT6 is primary evidence (source Griffith500)

I don't see the differnece.

The issue is whether GT6 will have new sounds or not. Only a finished version of GT6 can be considered "primary evidence". In fact, primary or secondary (etc.) doesn't even come into it, because it's not the same thing: the GT Academy Demo is not GT6. That's obvious in and of itself, but also, historically, the demos have been different from the full release they preceded in lots of subtle and not-so-subtle ways in the past.

And yet you used quotes from Kaz almost as a defense that GT6 will have new sounds. For clarity, why is that?

No, I'm saying the best "evidence" we have at the moment is Kaz saying, several times, that new sounds are being worked on. He has also stated that they might not be in GT6. That we haven't heard them yet does not yet mean they aren't necessarily going to make it in (although I remain skeptical for my own sake), and it certainly doesn't mean they aren't real (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence) - they almost certainly will be on PS4 (which I've been anticipating since 2009 ish, based on other evidence - see the sound threads for GT5, GT5 and GT6).

So my opinion of GT Academy demo (it's sounds, physics etc.) is incorrect. Tell me, what would be the correct data to form an opinion of the GT Academy demo if not the GT Academy demo?

Your opinion of the Academy Demo is relevant and valid only in the context of the demo, not in the context of the final version of GT6 (although I think patching in the new sounds will be very tricky, so the launch version will do.) We can extrapolate and postulate that if the same may be true for GT6, then ... - but that's not what's happening; people are treating these demos as though they were GT6 proper, and history has shown us that things change (for better or for worse) between these pre-release demos and the final game. I don't know why that doesn't go without saying.

 

[theofilosz]

These sounds and that AI are a serious let down.... Unless things change at Tokyo in September, I don't see any reason to buy this game. I believe this will impact a respectable amount of the player base.

 

[grashopper]

These sounds and that AI are a serious let down.... Unless things change at Tokyo in September, I don't see any reason to buy this game. I believe this will impact a respectable amount of the player base.

I think you need to wait until a review on the finished product for the AI. They are showing the game off to lure in the general public so it's probably not set at expert levels.
I don't think any game at those events is set to anything difficult. They don't want the average new player to throw in the towel because it's too hard before buying it.
It may still suck but I think you need to decide based on the actual game.

 

[theofilosz]

With only 3 months before release (actually around 2 if you count when the box is made and sent around the world), things are very gloomy. My anticipation for the game has already been killed.

 

[Tenacious D]

Unless things change at Tokyo in September, I don't see any reason to buy this game. I believe this will impact a respectable amount of the player base.

I seriously doubt it. Even with more than two years of bad press and "the same old sounds as in GT1" as some have put it, a million more copies-plus of GT5 were sold since November. Even with all the used copies in most stores in the developed world. I do expect an influx of new blood here at GT Planet, and likely a number of them complaining about one thing or another, but sales, down? Very doubtful. Like "no way" doubtful. Are we a bunch of suckers? Who cares?

And just to reiterate about the method and style of critique, I'm not saying to stop it per se. But there's a quantum leap different from

Gamer sees flickery edges around objects in particle effected areas, sees slowdown, hears the same sounds in many cars as in GT5: Hey now, this is going to be fixed before release, right?

And...

Gamer sees flickery edges around objects in particle effected areas, sees slowdown, hears the same sounds in many cars as in GT5: PD sucks as a developer, Kaz sucks, they're all lazy, the game will suck, you guys who like it are destroying the ozone hole...

I wouldn't give that stuff the time of day. Who would?

 

[theofilosz]

No one is invincible, don't get me wrong here, I would be so happy if these things were improved, but I have a bit of bad faith after the history of the game.

 

[sems4arsenal]

No one is invincible, don't get me wrong here, I would be so happy if these things were improved, but I have a bit of bad faith after the history of the game.

Exactly,plus the fact that GT5 was released 3 years ago and here we are hoping things make a dramatic U-turn in 2 month.

 

[Imari]

Even with more than two years of bad press and "the same old sounds as in GT1" as some have put it, a million more copies-plus of GT5 were sold since November.

The game is dirt cheap these days, and offers a lot of content for the money. I'm not sure comparing GT5 selling @ $20 to GT6 selling @ $60 really works. It's entirely possible that GT6 tanks until a price drop comes through. Unlikely, but possible.


And I get that some people think that Kaz's interviews are the most reliable source of information, but I don't think that's a foregone conclusion. He has been inaccurate in the past. I think if people want to choose to take the demos that we have so far as the best evidence of the likely state of the game, that's their choice.

As has been said, release versions usually have changes from demos, but they usually also have a lot of things the same. You can't really tell which is which.

 

[Griffith500]

Exactly,plus the fact that GT5 was released 3 years ago and here we are hoping things make a dramatic U-turn in 2 month.

So you really think that what's in the demos so far is everything that PD have done in (at least) the three years since GT5? Is it possible that there is still stuff they've been working on that they haven't shown us yet?

After the drama of the run-up to (and delay of) the release of GT5, if I were PD, I wouldn't be putting anything "on the table" I didn't need to. TGS will bring more info (we've been told this) and even then there's still two months 'til release.

That means, by TGS, PD should have a feature-complete (whatever that feature list might be; i.e. "release candidate") version of GT6 (which they may or may not show us) that just needs balancing / tweaking / play / bug testing etc. then packaged up and distributed. This month, now, will just be about getting everything collected together into one build and making sure it all works together.


With GT5, at TGS we saw the new weather (entirely new) and time change ("previewed" already at Gamescom) effects, and they released a few (undubbed!) videos of the game in action, including the course creator (also new, I think). Gamescom also had the now infamous Piazza del Campo circuit, so I guess the changes go both ways (the damage was also toned down, presumably because people complained about how it looked). The E3 trailer hinted at the course creator, damage and the X1 / X2010, everything else was already known.

What's left for TGS this time?

 

[diegorborges]

So you really think that what's in the demos so far is everything that PD have done in (at least) the three years since GT5? Is it possible that there is still stuff they've been working on that they haven't shown us yet?

After the drama of the run-up to (and delay of) the release of GT5, if I were PD, I wouldn't be putting anything "on the table" I didn't need to. TGS will bring more info (we've been told this) and even then there's still two months 'til release.

That means, by TGS, PD should have a feature-complete (whatever that feature list might be; i.e. "release candidate") version of GT6 (which they may or may not show us) that just needs balancing / tweaking / play / bug testing etc. then packaged up and distributed. This month, now, will just be about getting everything collected together into one build and making sure it all works together.


With GT5, at TGS we saw the new weather (entirely new) and time change ("previewed" already at Gamescom) effects, and they released a few (undubbed!) videos of the game in action, including the course creator (also new, I think). Gamescom also had the now infamous Piazza del Campo circuit, so I guess the changes go both ways (the damage was also toned down, presumably because people complained about how it looked). The E3 trailer hinted at the course creator, damage and the X1 / X2010, everything else was already known.

What's left for TGS this time?

And seriously. The new course generator will be one of their big guns this time. It's something really special for the series, if they did it right (it looks like they did..."fundamentaly different"). When I think about bad sounds (and I believe, that they may not ship GT6 with those "sounds generated in a new way" but some improvement may come for GT6 (like the work they've put into the Honda HSV-010 sounds on GT5).

But after that, the huge course generator and the image of a BMW 507 cruising around Andalucia comes to my mind. Oh god, this game will rock so much! =D Can't. Wait.

The thing is: PD knows their sounds are not good. People write bs around "they are stuck in the past", bla bla bla but they certainly know the sounds are not good, but knowing PD they'll only really show something and praise about them when they get really good. Like the physics for GT6, for example.

So, I'm really confident we may get a GT6 with some improvements on sounds. But I'll be so busy with all those new content that anyone that thinks it's a "dealbreaker"... damn, I can just laugh about that.

 

[Flaco13]

And seriously. The new course generator will be one of their big guns this time. It's something really special for the series, if they did it right (it looks like they did..."fundamentaly different"). When I think about bad sounds (and I believe, that they may not ship GT6 with those "sounds generated in a new way" but some improvement may come for GT6 (like the work they've put into the Honda HSV-010 sounds on GT5).

But after that, the huge course generator and the image of a BMW 507 cruising around Andalucia comes to my mind. Oh god, this game will rock so much! =D Can't. Wait.

The thing is: PD knows their sounds are not good. People write bs around "they are stuck in the past", bla bla bla but they certainly know the sounds are not good, but knowing PD they'll only really show something and praise about them when they get really good. Like the physics for GT6, for example.

So, I'm really confident we may get a GT6 with some improvements on sounds. But I'll be so busy with all those new content that anyone that thinks it's a "dealbreaker"... damn, I can just laugh about that.

Amen to this.

 

[Imari]

So you really think that what's in the demos so far is everything that PD have done in (at least) the three years since GT5? Is it possible that there is still stuff they've been working on that they haven't shown us yet?

It's almost certain that there's still stuff to be shown. A game made of only what we've seen in the demo would be astoundingly dull.

But of the stuff that was shown in the demo, a lot of it doesn't seem to have changed significantly since GT5. Either they're not showing their best work yet, which seems like they're leaving it until the last minute, or some things aren't being improved.

 

[Tenacious D]

The game is dirt cheap these days, and offers a lot of content for the money. I'm not sure comparing GT5 selling @ $20 to GT6 selling @ $60 really works.

While that is true, a TON of cheap PS3 games are out there. Pretty darn good games. How many of them sold a million copies since November? Even ones that weren't more than two years old?

It's entirely possible that GT6 tanks until a price drop comes through. Unlikely, but possible.

No, not even. Metaphysically speaking yes. But metaphysically speaking, I can win the lottery too.

No, in order for GT6 to tank, there would have to be a demonstrably better game for one of the Playstation systems to be out within a similar timeframe. You know, to get people to switch, which people are reluctant to do, especially with games running $60 a pop. There's nothing comparable. So GT6 will sell like tacos.

I think if people want to choose to take the demos that we have so far as the best evidence of the likely state of the game, that's their choice.

As has been said, release versions usually have changes from demos, but they usually also have a lot of things the same. You can't really tell which is which.

All that is true, but like Griff, I caution from going overboard as so many here do. I made a post about that overboardness and how no developer would take it seriously. Gentle coercion mixed with encouragement and praise works best with human beings. And Polyphony Digital is made of people. /reference

(good words, good words, lots of good words)

What's left for TGS this time?

Oh my gosh....

• How improved are the cars formerly referred to as Standards? How much have the Standard tracks been improved?
• How extensive is the modification system? Is it equally in every sense the same for "un-Premiums"?
• Will there be used cars again? If so, what will the nature of the Used Dealerships be? Will there be an Online Dealership? Will users be able to sell their cars in an Auction House or in GT Classifieds? Or a user Shop?
• What will the nature of Race Mod be? How many cars can be Race Modded? How "un-extensive" will the Livery Editor be?
• With Paint Chips returning, what will the nature of the Paint Shop be? Will users be able to paint their cars in a range of colors and finishes without having to use Paint Chips? What is the deal with them?
• What form will damage take? Will mechanical damage be more realistic?
• How have you laid out the single player game? What kind of Career Mode will there be? Will it resemble GT Academy in any way?
• What about License Tests? How will the differ, or be the same?
• What unique challenges will there be in the single player modes? What kind of special events will be included in the game?
• How will Photo Mode be improved? Is any Movie Maker still impossible?
• Will there be an Event Maker?
• Explain the fundamental changes which you've made in the Course Maker. What new features take it to the next level? And... HOW big are those areas again? ;D
• How will DLC be integrated in GT6 differently? Will new tracks bring new events with them? Will new events seamlessly integrate into the single player game?
• Your remarks in the past about the Online Mode hint at a very different approach in GT6. You mentioned online clubs and leagues. What tools will you be giving players to manage these new groups? What about user created events, even championships, how will these be handled? Will this be a part of an Event Maker tool? Will users be allowed to create prizes and prize cars for first place finishes?
• You mentioned Polyphony Digital will be hosting events and championships. How will these work? What online rewards will the players be looking forward to?
• *whew!*

Yeah... whew! I could go on for another half page! But this should give you guys an idea of how little we know about GT6. And while this is likely not a huge surprise, I associate myself strongly with the remarks of my friends Griffith500 and diegoborges.

 

[Griffith500]

It's almost certain that there's still stuff to be shown. A game made of only what we've seen in the demo would be astoundingly dull.

But of the stuff that was shown in the demo, a lot of it doesn't seem to have changed significantly since GT5. Either they're not showing their best work yet, which seems like they're leaving it until the last minute, or some things aren't being improved.

Most of it won't be changed from GT5, that's a given. There will be lots of small changes that add up to a large effect, though. Without the full product, that large effect will be invisible.

The stuff that "needs" to be changed may very well be being left for the last minute. It's what I'd do. To compensate for this, it appears PD are releasing trailers and info at a more regular, planned interval than they did before the release of GT5 (although that might be skewed by the revealing of info years before release, because of the delay).

So what conclusion can we draw, in respect of GT6? Why is that what we're seeing now is taken literally to be the state of GT6 proper ("U-turn"), when such an inference cannot accurately be made (logically, obviously, even historically)? Why would anyone support such backward logic (except for self-gratification)? People can think what they like, but if they want to assert that what they are thinking is correct, that's different.

I'm not saying that everything in the demos will change for GT6 (but it is obvious there is a lot that isn't being shown), I'm saying nobody but PD (more-or-less) knows what will change - all that we can do is guess. In that light, all we really have is what we've been told (and the little clues that PD will have buried in trailers). If that turns out to be inaccurate, come release day, then people would likely have a right to know why. But none of that has happened yet, either.

 

[J-KiLLA24]

Here is Andreas' interview:

 

[Tenacious D]

THIS is going to blow up real big. Ho-liieee LANDSCAPE, Batman!!

*watches again*

 

[Imari]

That's awesome that the course maker is confirmed to be that big. I do wonder what sacrifices they've had to make in order to get that to work. As the guy says, that's just humongous.

The stuff that "needs" to be changed may very well be being left for the last minute. It's what I'd do.

Out of interest, why would you do it this way? It's the opposite of what I'd do. They're building from a functional game, so there's no worry that they'll miss something basic and end up with a game that's barely playable.

I'd have thought they'd jump in and tackle the big problems right away to spend as much time on them as possible.

 

[tpark103]

Here is Andreas' interview:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xihj5a2xqmw">YouTube Link</a>

Great interview.... I saw that one.. Lots of good info and fuel to keep the anticipation up.

 

[sems4arsenal]

So you really think that what's in the demos so far is everything that PD have done in (at least) the three years since GT5? Is it possible that there is still stuff they've been working on that they haven't shown us yet?

Not at all no but why didn't they show more,GT6 had average showings in 2 of the most important gaming events of the year and with this year being a New Gen year they need to have some sort of momentum or hype to their game.

Our main gripes are what A.I,sound and a Livery Editor so far we've been getting fairly vague answers about all of them,they may still come good yes but interest in GT6 isn't high for many so far.

 

[Griffith500]

That's awesome that the course maker is confirmed to be that big. I do wonder what sacrifices they've had to make in order to get that to work. As the guy says, that's just humongous.



Out of interest, why would you do it this way? It's the opposite of what I'd do. They're building from a functional game, so there's no worry that they'll miss something basic and end up with a game that's barely playable.

I'd have thought they'd jump in and tackle the big problems right away to spend as much time on them as possible.

I meant I'd keep them out of sight until the last minute. The chances are the big stuff we all want were being worked on when GT5 was still in development.

My take on what the sacrifice will be is detail density, probably. It'll be like the current course creator locations in that sense. The streaming their engine is capable of (which had me salivating at the prospect of large / potentially endless locations in the free roam thread) means that it won't have to all be kept in RAM.

 

[another_jakhole]

Here is Andreas' interview:

I think I can speak for others when I say, THANK YOU SO MUCH, ANDREAS! You've shown the determination and tenacity to gain extra information on something that isn't made clear enough and now have appeased our minds. If only you asked about how long the tracks can be and how we're able to create the tracks...which could have been met with a reply such as, "We'll go into further detail at TGS next month," or the bad one, "We can't go into detail about that at this time." :/

I have to say it again, thank you so much, Andreas.

I meant I'd keep them out of sight until the last minute. The chances are the big stuff we all want were being worked on when GT5 was still in development.

So things such as a livery editor/exterior modifications. My belief with GT6 is that there won't be a Forza type livery editor, but there will be a great amount of body modifications available. I really would have liked to create that GT-R from 2 Fast 2 Furious. I don't care what anyone says, I would love for there to be neon lights for the sole purpose of seeing what kind of shows people can display on night tracks with there already being tandem drifting videos and other similar scenarios. "THIS ISN'T NFS, this is a serious racing game." Then, why would Kaz care to introduce WWII vehicles and a "Tank car" to the GT series if he wanted it to be something like iRacing. "FREEDOM!"

I'm truly sorry if you find this bit about neon lights to be something you'd loathe (like many others do, here on GTP; but they're not apart of the casual racing game demographic) to be featured in GT, Griffith500. I have a great respect for the opinions others share on GTP and I say it to them as well.

My take on what the sacrifice will be is detail density, probably. It'll be like the current course creator locations in that sense. The streaming their engine is capable of (which had me salivating at the prospect of large / potentially endless locations in the free roam thread) means that it won't have to all be kept in RAM.

If you have the the time, can you go over how you think they've managed to do this new "Course Maker" with whole towns and surrounding areas involved? Do you think there's a possibility for there to be free roam, considering that they've managed to create a "Course Maker" location as vast as Ronda (even if that meant sectioning the whole location into parts like how it's done with variations of tracks)?

And I hope people don't think that this is the only location/layout we'll have in GT6 and not others like what we have in GT5. It seems that they're completely dismissing the fact that there should most definitely be other simple Course Maker layouts. Do you think this actually might be the case and we'll only have Ronda and other major unknown locations with this "fundamentally different" to GT5's "Course Maker"? I'm, also, really interested in what others think (if they have a greater knowledge of these subjects than us "normals".)

 

[Imari]

I meant I'd keep them out of sight until the last minute. The chances are the big stuff we all want were being worked on when GT5 was still in development.

My take on what the sacrifice will be is detail density, probably. It'll be like the current course creator locations in that sense. The streaming their engine is capable of (which had me salivating at the prospect of large / potentially endless locations in the free roam thread) means that it won't have to all be kept in RAM.

Oh right, yes certainly. Actually, I'd have been showcasing stuff that could be considered "fixes" from GT5 like online and such more strongly at the gameshows, and keeping things like the course creator completely silent. That's really looking like it's going to be their trump card.

As currently described I can't think of anything like it in any game. The scale is just so totally different from any other game with a course creator that I've seen that it hardly seems the same.

 

[eran0004]

Andreas.

You should get an award for digging deeper into the course maker story.

 

[ildd]

that would be 10,000 square KM... which is bigger than the entire state of Delaware and Rhode Island combined.

+1 for me (my sentence was basically featured in the latest GTP News post)

 

[gNNY]

thanks, guys, you're very welcome. I'm glad that you got a kick out of it. The whole thing was very exciting for me as well and I was really lucky to run into Kazunori-San and Translator-San in the hotel the next day.

Now I can't wait for what's in store for TGS and, of course, the release on December 6th.

 

[TokoTurismo]

thanks, guys, you're very welcome. I'm glad that you got a kick out of it. The whole thing was very exciting for me as well and I was really lucky to run into Kazunori-San and Translator-San in the hotel the next day.

Now I can't wait for what's in store for TGS and, of course, the release on December 6th.

Thank you very much gNNy. 👍 Now I'm even more hyped and certainly can't wait for TGS. December 6 is gonna rock when GT6 is released on that day.

This is my first following a new GT game, and it feels really exciting and fun.

 

[Mini Stiggy]

thanks, guys, you're very welcome. I'm glad that you got a kick out of it. The whole thing was very exciting for me as well and I was really lucky to run into Kazunori-San and Translator-San in the hotel the next day.

Now I can't wait for what's in store for TGS and, of course, the release on December 6th.

Thanks a lot:tup:👍.

 

[Tenacious D]

This is my third Gran Turismo watch. BIG FUN!! And even after the small deflation I felt with it coming out for PS3, this game is already so ridiculously cool, I can hardly stand the wait. I'm about to fire up GT5, and it almost feels like GT4 in comparison! Even wading through all the whining here is amusing and helps me pass those... crawling... days...

I will have to add that Jordan looks like a freaking KID!! Is he old enough to have a driver's license or drink?!

One more thing. Having just watched your interview once again Andre, is there a chance you'll make TGS this year?

 

[townnet]

Best quality video of Goodwood track...

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Best quality video of Goodwood track...

If you're going to choose to race with Manual at least remember to change gear!

Also at the end of the video around 2:17 it seems to me that the car appears from nowhere and drives past the start line.