GT6 Sales Discussion

[Johnnypenso]

I think the bottom line is that GT7 has to start growing some fresh apples out of their tree real soon, or else people will be switching to oranges. I agree with Samus. I don't want the same **** in a different toilet. GT7 doesn't need an evolution. It needs a revolution.

Could not put it any better than that. The player base has matured but the game has remained largely stagnant in terms of overall feel and design. Many of us are now looking for more realism, for more of a "sim" feel. Without that we'll naturally turn to other more "simlike" games and unfortunately, once you turn to other games you often find a great deal lacking in GT.
The car selection no longer dazzles me like it once did. I find myself driving the same couple of dozen cars over and over anyway because they both feel the best in terms of FFB and are competitive. 50-75 cars well modeled in terms of physics and FFB is far more appealing to me than 10,000 cars with poor FFB and average physics.

 

[Highlandor]

Could not put it any better than that. The player base has matured but the game has remained largely stagnant in terms of overall feel and design. Many of us are now looking for more realism, for more of a "sim" feel. Without that we'll naturally turn to other more "simlike" games and unfortunately, once you turn to other games you often find a great deal lacking in GT.
The car selection no longer dazzles me like it once did. I find myself driving the same couple of dozen cars over and over anyway because they both feel the best in terms of FFB and are competitive. 50-75 cars well modeled in terms of physics and FFB is far more appealing to me than 10,000 cars with poor FFB and average physics.

It's possible to get more of a sim feel by driving cockpit view and turning off all and every display option - so all you have is the cockpit and what you see out the windows.

Then use stock or lower than stock tyres, turn off all driving aids and grips levels as low as they'll go and you're halfway there.

Feels weird at first, but the more you do it the more used to it you get and it starts to become easier. We did this a bit on GT5, it adds a whole new dimension to the game and is gives it a much more 'sim' feel to it.

But I don't think this is enough to stop the exodus or repair the damage done to die hard GT / online racing fans. It's shocking how many websites / series as a whole have turned their back on GT, or now have GT tumbleweeds blowing through them.

I honestly don't think it'll change, it's been too long and 2 versions of the game since prologue and the "online revolution" and GT is a mess with a seriously damaged reputation.

Still no recognition from PD for all the problems or just how important the online aspect is.

It seems to me that Kaz has his blinkers on and is determined to push the boundaries of a video game and everything else i.e. online racing, is not a priority of his. He may be a visionary, but he isn't a businessman as his cash cow is now burgers, steak and mincemeat...

 

[Samus]

You mentioned something about your License Test idea before, and it is meritorious, but this is another one of those things that Kaz is gonna do what he do, so I have a feeling that License Tests specifically won't be going through any transmogrifications. But I do anticipate something of GT Academy making an appearance in GT7.

Well if we take that attitude why bother posting any ideas here at all, why post your GT Pro idea, if Kaz is just going to do what he's gonna do? We have to post something in the small, slim hope that someone from PD will read and take the thoughts on board.

Changing "what Kaz is gonna do" is exactly what we should be trying to force, so that we all get a better game that is fresh and interesting, not just let him copy/paste 90% from the first game.

And one more thing about "grand experiments." In racing games, you really can't do much with a formula based on the player's car beating every other car, when it's based on real world racing.

I already acknowledged that several times, I'm well aware that once you do get to the track itself there isn't much different you can do, it's x cars on y track trying to win the race. I am adamant however there is a lot more you can do to get there, and how you progress through these races. Races can be much more fun when you know there is a good reason to do it, a feeling of progress through a career and not just doing random races in random cars for no real reason.

Even when you do get to the track there is more you can do. How about team racing, where you not only win a drivers championship but also a constructors? Why have we never seen that simply gameplay change in GT? We can have longer races with driver changes again, like GT4. That was *meant* to be coming back for GT6 but no sign so far.

Plus of course there is the well known problem of how 'races' are set up in GT. Not only can and should they bring back qualifying and starts with no AI head starts but in some events why not mimic some real world racing series? Set the starting positions based on the previous race, top 10 in reverse order or in the order they finish etc etc. You could even implement ballast, again something very much what real racing series do.

So yeah, I totally disagree that there "isn't much you can do with the formula". For Gran Turismo there is lot they can do, some that they've explored in the past, some they've never tried.

Many of us have mentioned real world racing leagues being well represented in GT7. Some like the three of us have speculated on how some form of GT Academy could be used as a template for racing events. And beyond that, ideas are far and few between.

Again, sorry, but no. There are hundreds of ideas they can try out, all related to the real world. We're not going to think them all up here and post them all because a) there isn't much incentive to do so and b) we're not game designers.

I'm all for PD brainstorming new ideas. I just don't want to see anything really un-motorsports related, like the Pokemonie collectibles, the XP system, and a paint shop with no freaking paint! Jeepers, that was messed up.

Where has anyone here suggested anything like that? We're not suggesting PD do those stupid things, they're doing them on their own. We want them to listen to our ideas that aren't gotta catch em all orientated. We can only hope they listen.

 

[Highlandor]

Well if we take that attitude why bother posting any ideas here at all, why post your GT Pro idea, if Kaz is just going to do what he's gonna do? We have to post something in the small, slim hope that someone from PD will read and take the thoughts on board.

Changing "what Kaz is gonna do" is exactly what we should be trying to force, so that we all get a better game that is fresh and interesting, not just let him copy/paste 90% from the first game.

Sorry - you make some very good points (which I happen to agree with), but the facts are the facts and they are that Kaz doesn't listen to what it said here, or anywhere.

Anything that is mentioned on here that happens in the game is pure co-incidence IMHO, the reasons for this are:

1) E30 M3, by far and away the most requested car in GT5 on the official GTP feedback list has never appeared or been mentioned by Kaz / PD.
2) Failiure to provide stable (i.e. bug / glitch free AND in terms on connectivity) online racing
3) Constant 'secret' physics changes not mentioned, content previously mentioned by Kaz / PD not appearing and no communication / recognition by PD for any of this despite this being a major problem for race / series / website organisors etc
4) Implementing features that have little relevance to many players and avoiding / not dealing with the big issues that impact alot of the players i.e. this new track data logger Toyota thing.

To me, all of the above shows that Kaz is going to do what HE wants to do and what others want is irrelevant, or if it's the same, it a fortunate co-incidence...

I totally agree with you that he should be looking at feedback from the users / fans of his product (and we should be helping them by telling hem what is needed), but after 8 year of GT5 Prologue, GT5 & GT6 (and seeing the feedback from so many fans) it's pretty obvious Kaz doesn't listen and is only interested in his vision of the game..

 

[Mulan]

We are saying Kaz, but can it be so that he actually does not have controll of all that is happening. He may have visions and ideas and sets people to work on those. Then he gets reports of progress and challanges and a timeline. May be optimistic at time to. Bugs that are fixed may well be below his need to know and he doesnt perhaps even care.
Features that are promissed, carmanufactorers, tracks and competitions (marketing) is more Kaz department, where money is involved and probably staffmanagement.
So if bugs are not reported is perhaps because there is no need for them to report. And if they have few bugs to report then it all seems fine and i can only speculate, but people may do so for money or to seem as great workers and get promotions.

 

[Beat the Beat]

There could be a lot of different management problems at the company under different people, but the fact is Kaz is the CEO of the entire company.

 

[Highlandor]

There's no excuses or defence of PD / Kaz or anyone involved / relating to GT in terms of the people behind / responsible for it.

I used to work for a marketing agency doing research projects for automotive companies like Mazda, Fiat / AR, Land Rover, GM (Saab / Vauxhall) etc - these companies will pay tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds for research projects with a few or a few hundred participants.

PD / Kaz has the luxury of websites like GTP that provide better feedback, for alot less money (it's all free here), 24hrs a day, 365 days a year. Most companies out there would bite your hand of to have something like this, yet PD just seem to not care.

The same issues have been on here going round and round for years (GT5 & 6), yet the same issues still exist in the game with very little or no recognition from PD.

Whether it's PD / Kaz not listening, or not bothering to take note, not caring or not using this immense source of feedback - for any and all of those reasons, they don't deserve anything other than contempt, anger or frustration from the GT fans.

Which is why I can only presume that they are set in their ways and will do whatever they want to do regardless what their fans (outside of their home market) are repeatedly saying, because to not make use of this kind of free feedback is mind blowing-ly dumb, bordering on the ridiculous.

 

[amar212]

GTP members and overall hardcore audience are unbelievably small part of the GT series consumers.

It would be great if many people here would jump off from their high elitist horse and understood how their opinion clearly matters - and it is very often taken into account by PD - but it is not detrimental, foundational nor exclusive for idea of GT series design, execution, content planning of feature implementation.

Also, if I was in charge of collecting "focus group" data from GTP, I would probably already be in the asylum. Imagine why.

Success of GT series lays in acceptability to casual players. Without them, there is no commercial success.

Imagine just for a second how MAYBE that sensitive line of "acceptability" has been crossed with GT5 being made too hardcore for the casual players. And now that is reflecting on GT6 sales. Because GT5 was too vast, too hardcore and too complex and casual players felt it is not "their" game anymore. So they decided not to buy GT6. Because there are simply no 10 million hardcore players outthere.

So, what are "we" exactly doing with our constant push for GT to become more hardcore, more like iRacing, Raceroom, rFactor or Assetto Corsa? What are we doing for the actual commercial success of the GT series? What are WE doing for its sales in the long term perspective?

I am not sure I actually like the answer to my own question.

 

[MeanElf]

...Changing "what Kaz is gonna do" is exactly what we should be trying to force, so that we all get a better game that is fresh and interesting, not just let him copy/paste 90% from the first game...

Like Amar says - I'm sure they are aware of what people are saying about their game, despite the frequency of assumption here that PD are apparently oblivious to what GTP is wobbling on about at any given time.

People can suggest what they would like to see - I'm sure they appreciate having the facility, but in the end, TD is right; Kazunori-san is going to do what he feels is best for the game and the series. With so many other games coming out and already on the market, anyone who dislikes what PD have made lately, would surely have gone by now.

 

[Barn One]

The irony in the above posters, post is apparently unable to register.
GT has failed because the team and head manager failed, period.
The guy actually thinks his product is going to bridge a gap between automotive and race industries, instead of a good racing game with good ties to both.
Talk about getting off high elitist horses blah blah blah.

 

[diegorborges]

The irony in the above posters, post is apparently unable to register.
GT has failed because the team and head manager failed, period.
The guy actually thinks his product is going to bridge a gap between automotive and race industries, instead of a good racing game with good ties to both.
Talk about getting off high elitist horses blah blah blah.

The game still have a lot to offer in the future updates... we still haven't reached it's final sales numbers so I think it's better to wait and see.

Until now, nothing have failed. And probably it won't... GT sales have long legs...

About "going to bridge a gap between automotive and race industries"... about the automotive part, I bet GT is the most recognizable title for the automotive industry right now and for the racing part, GT Academy is a success story. Nobody can complain about these. For most part, it simply works.

 

[TurismoBad]

GTP members and overall hardcore audience are unbelievably small part of the GT series consumers.

It would be great if many people here would jump off from their high elitist horse and understood how their opinion clearly matters - and it is very often taken into account by PD - but it is not detrimental, foundational nor exclusive for idea of GT series design, execution, content planning of feature implementation.

Also, if I was in charge of collecting "focus group" data from GTP, I would probably already be in the asylum. Imagine why.

Success of GT series lays in acceptability to casual players. Without them, there is no commercial success.

Imagine just for a second how MAYBE that sensitive line of "acceptability" has been crossed with GT5 being made too hardcore for the casual players. And now that is reflecting on GT6 sales. Because GT5 was too vast, too hardcore and too complex and casual players felt it is not "their" game anymore. So they decided not to buy GT6. Because there are simply no 10 million hardcore players outthere.

So, what are "we" exactly doing with our constant push for GT to become more hardcore, more like iRacing, Raceroom, rFactor or Assetto Corsa? What are we doing for the actual commercial success of the GT series? What are WE doing for its sales in the long term perspective?

I am not sure I actually like the answer to my own question.

It sold like crap because it's crap (terrible game-play design, sound, ai, outdated cars, double standards etc etc). I don't see that push for uber hardcore - just for some decent racing game. That can hardly alienate anyone.

It sold like crap because people were rather underwhelmed by GT5 and GT6 is not very different.

If it was a real step forward it would've sold at least double.

I see no high horse riders either - just people making valid suggestions that will be completely ignored. Instead I see PD and Kaz riding A VERY TALL horse, being sloppy and incompetent while the game STILL have bugs and glitches from launch.

"Push for Hardcore" more like "Goodbye 2005, Welcome 2014" is the theme on not only GTP - the same opinions are expressed virtually everywhere discussions arise about fixing the franchise.

 

[jimipitbull]

"Push for Hardcore" more like "Goodbye 2005, Welcome 2014" is the theme on not only GTP - the same opinions are expressed virtually everywhere discussions arise about fixing the franchise.

If that is the case, why does 95% of suggestions on GTP relate to offline mode, when the future of gaming is online?

Who is stuck in 2005?

 

[NLxAROSA]

One does not necessarily rule out the other. Surely GT5 and GT6 were lacking/incoherent/inconsistent, but this doesn't mean that what the 'sim' community is wishing for is a solution for that (I certainly don't think it is). The series thrives on casual users that just want to take nice cars for a spin and not be bother with 'hardcoreness' and it should continue to cater for that because those millions of casual users provide the money for the more hardcore features.

@amar212 : Why dislike the answer to your own question? Surely both can coexist in one game/platform?

 

[Tired Tyres]

To me the problem is that they are not copying what they did in the past.

GT1 to GT3 all worked the same way. Races had licence requirements to enter. Pass the licences and any race in the game, subject to appropriate car, can be you first race. Beautiful sandbox gaming.

Together with qualifying available for every event allowing you to balance your car to the AI.

If they could get it this right for these games, why can't they get it right now? I cannot believe that the same person who planned out GT1-3 is the same person who planned out GT5-6.

 

[Highlandor]

GTP members and overall hardcore audience are unbelievably small part of the GT series consumers.

It's also the biggest GT website on the net and covers many different demographics in GT users - so where would be better for PD / Kaz to look??

Also, if I was in charge of collecting "focus group" data from GTP, I would probably already be in the asylum. Imagine why.

Maybe you need better training in planning, administering and managing research projects then...

Success of GT series lays in acceptability to casual players. Without them, there is no commercial success.

Don't agree at all - just look at the organised 'serious' racing footage put up on youtube. People see that and want to be part of it, or copy it. People see demolition derby or mariokart 'GT' footage they won't.

The organised / serious / hardcore guys help to promote the game, make people want it, not run away from it.

Imagine just for a second how MAYBE that sensitive line of "acceptability" has been crossed with GT5 being made too hardcore for the casual players. And now that is reflecting on GT6 sales. Because GT5 was too vast, too hardcore and too complex and casual players felt it is not "their" game anymore. So they decided not to buy GT6. Because there are simply no 10 million hardcore players outthere.

So, what are "we" exactly doing with our constant push for GT to become more hardcore, more like iRacing, Raceroom, rFactor or Assetto Corsa? What are we doing for the actual commercial success of the GT series? What are WE doing for its sales in the long term perspective?

I am not sure I actually like the answer to my own question.

What has this got to do with anything, most people just want a stable online connection so they can race their online friends from around the world - something GT5 & 6 has never had.

That's got nothing to do with hardcore or being 'sim' like, it's just a normal acceptable expectation of any online game..

 

[MeanElf]

...What has this got to do with anything, most people just want a stable online connection so they can race their online friends from around the world - something GT5 & 6 has never had...

Right there is the assumption that would explain your first comment perhaps.

Just because some people like to race online, does not mean that everyone, or even most will want to do that. There are plenty of people here who have expressed a favouritism of SP over MP - for one thing, quite a few seem to use the SP parts of the game to get in shape for online - that dosen't mean that they are constantly there, or value it over the MP portion.

amar212 said
Also, if I was in charge of collecting "focus group" data from GTP, I would probably already be in the asylum. Imagine why.

Maybe you need better training in planning, administering and managing research projects then...

I think you must have missed humour in Amar's comment.

 

[Mulan]

Right there is the assumption that would explain your first comment perhaps.

Just because some people like to race online, does not mean that everyone, or even most will want to do that. There are plenty of people here who have expressed a favouritism of SP over MP - for one thing, quite a few seem to use the SP parts of the game to get in shape for online - that dosen't mean that they are constantly there, or value it over the MP portion.

What are you saying? Very hard English here i really have hard time understanding..sorry.
But if i try, what you mean is that most people on GT planet dont need multiplayer?
That is in my book a reason for PD to ignore this sites voters totally. For me as big a misstake as the wish many here had to have GT6 on ps3. But, please, i may have misunderstood what you wrote.
Another thing though is the way multiplayer and singleplayer is different in the same game and how the multiplayer is not so good at all. If they focus on the future and PS4 then a good multiplayer solution is the only way to make this game really good, single player is not enough.
I do think sales will be even worse if the make a lousy multiplayer experience in GT7.

 

[MeanElf]

...what you mean is that most people on GT planet dont need multiplayer?

No, not GTP but in general, across the world. I know a few people here on GTP prefer SP instead of MP but worldwide was what I was talking about.

 

[Mulan]

No, not GTP but in general, across the world. I know a few people here on GTP prefer SP instead of MP but worldwide was what I was talking about.

That i dont know, but i think for PS4 owners and having GT7 focusing on the multiplayer aspect is more important. This can be done in many ways but PS4 is much more about being connected than PS3. Possibilities are alot better to make great multiplayer game. As it is with GT5/6 i dont blame those who like offline better.

 

[Imari]

Success of GT series lays in acceptability to casual players. Without them, there is no commercial success.

That's certainly true.

Imagine just for a second how MAYBE that sensitive line of "acceptability" has been crossed with GT5 being made too hardcore for the casual players. And now that is reflecting on GT6 sales. Because GT5 was too vast, too hardcore and too complex and casual players felt it is not "their" game anymore. So they decided not to buy GT6. Because there are simply no 10 million hardcore players outthere.

But I'm surprised you fell into this trap.

There's nothing about a physically accurate simulation that is too hardcore and too complex any more than the same is true of Need for Speed or any other racing game. Particularly if appropriate assists are provided.

I find that keen drivers who are not gamers pick up skills faster in the MX5 in iRacing than the MX5 in GT or Forza. It responds in a way that they already have significant exposure to, and thus is more intuitive. That's not necessarily universally true, but it's been my experience.

If GT is unapproachable to the casual player, it's because of the game design, not because of the physical simulation. And the same things that are great design for casual players are generally also great design for the hardcore. Engaging gameplay with replay value. Robust online services with options to meet the needs of a diverse range of players. A single player mode that is both challenging and rewarding. Fields for free expression, be that through customisation of cars, creation of tracks or some other creative outlet.

GT is not falling apart because of any of the expectations of the hardcore. Certainly there are some who want iRacing: The Console Version, but there are many that understand that GT is successful because it appeals to so many, and want Polyphony to build upon that foundation instead of catering to the few that are still enamoured of gameplay from the 90's.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Just because some people like to race online, does not mean that everyone, or even most will want to do that. There are plenty of people here who have expressed a favouritism of SP over MP - for one thing, quite a few seem to use the SP parts of the game to get in shape for online - that dosen't mean that they are constantly there, or value it over the MP portion.

While I would agree that GT is still mainly an offline series, I often wonder how much more popular online would be if it better presented and with the addition of driver ratings, fixed lobbies, matchmaking, the promised features for GT6 etc. Online is basically a free-for-all. There are some good hosts and they are golden if you find them, but most really don't care and are just there to talk with their friends or put up the track vote and change the PP as necessary. Series are ok if you can stick to a fixed schedule but most series are populated with fairly skilled drivers. Without driver ratings and matchmaking based on some skill parameters, it's just not very encouraging to new people and never will be if they don't get their act together.

 

[eSZee]

Because GT5 was too vast, too hardcore and too complex

Was GT5 any of that?

 

[Nooboogering]

"Was GT5 any of that?

I think Amar is saying that, in the whole complex of GT5 owners, most of them are stricly casual.
How many hardcore GT5 owners are there?
Some GT5 owners also prefer Blur and Need For Speed but still have a copy of GT5.

 

[Tenacious D]

It seems that an awful lot of Gran Turismo fans want what we want: to feel like we're in a racing experience like Kaz is when he joins the racing team for the Nurb 24 Hours. We want at least a little corner of events which have the structure and some of the essence of a good racing sim. I'm bold in my needs, stating that I want a section devoted to this, based on the GT Academy and its ladder to real world racing leagues.

Yeah, that's seriously hardcore stuff. But I recognize the value of the casuals, and so I insist that the old school sandbox style of Arcade and GT Mode continue showing up in new GT games. Something the kids can enjoy for a few dozen minutes or a dozen hours. And then for those who want to get serious, that GT Pro Mode is waiting for them to put on the big racing shoes.

Samus felt like I was shooting down some of his ideas, and I didn't really mean to. I'm just a little more cautious about certain traditional elements manifesting in new GTs which we want to see, and that may take some evolution over time. So I'm not wanting to discourage suggestions or discussions of improvements, I want a LOT more of that. I want to see if anyone has any bold ideas like my GT Pro notion, because I'm not exactly the pocket emperor of game design or whatever.

I want this thread to thrive some more and push on, and there are plenty of topics to cover.

• How can online play improve dramatically? Is the Event Maker a crucial part of that? What kind of club and league builder tools would we want to see in GT7, and to some extent in GT6? How cool or frustrating would it be for clubs and leagues to use custom tracks built in the Course Maker and shared? Or cars designed in Race Mod, with custom livery elements like number plaques designed for the cars in the league?
• How much of an impact would an offline Event Maker have, especially with Race Mod and a fairly good Livery Editor? What would an Event Maker do for you if you could define every aspect of a race event or series, down to the car choices, including cars from your garage for the bots? And bots you hand pick for the race? What if you could define with an Event Maker an entire mini-season for a real or fantasy racing league, including the points spread?
• What would being able to download any gamer's best lap ghost for every track do for your race training? And I know we can do this now, to an extent, but suppose you could sort a Leaderboard by track, and a list of top laps populated. And you decided to download certain car ghost laps. Would anyone want that?

I could go on but I'm getting sleepy. Really need to retire so I can yack with Kaz all day about race design ideas...

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is really the dilemma PD faces, the tradeoff between making the game to appeal to casual fans and the more hardcore GT fans at the same time. This is why I advocate for various game modes within the next GT and @Tenacious D wants a Pro Mode and so on. I just don't think the generic one-size-fits-all model works that well anymore, at least not the way it's designed now. I know @amar212 said,

Success of GT series lays in acceptability to casual players. Without them, there is no commercial success.

...and this is true. The majority of GT fans aren't on GTP and aren't analyzing every little issue with the game like we are. But I believe those same casual gamers are also looking for a more engaging, more immersive experience, the type of experience that comes with better game design, to make you feel like you are actually racing for real, in a series or single race. Qualifying, warm up sessions, adjustable AI, trophies for winning, a celebration experience after, team managers, radio chatter, that sort of thing.

So long as difficulty is always adjustable you can make the physics are real as possible and allow driving aids to moderate the extreme handling characteristics of real physics for newer users or anyone that wants them.

 

[Samus]

I honestly believe they can move a lot further towards real racing ideas and some of the things I mentioned before whilst still appealing to the casuals. Just look at the official F1 game, it can get pretty technical if you want it to and it's still an F1 game with semi-realistic physics but it appeals to casuals because it's kept simple, and to the point. It's not like a PC F1 simulator with page after page of telemetry, in depth setup that takes a week and a degree, absolute full simulation of real F1.

Games like Toca Race Driver and GRID are also an example of having a focus on real world motorsports whilst not straying too far into hardcore simulation.

GT already gets slated by a lot of casual fans for being too dull/boring/unexciting because of it's realistic approach to driving with no arcade flashiness yet it does still manage to appeal to millions. Why the numbers went down for GT6 I can't give an answer but I honestly doubt it's because GT5 was too hardcore. There wasn't anything more hardcore in there that wasn't in earlier games, to my knowledge.

In one aspect I mentioned I think they can actually make it less of a 'boring' simulation, and that's the license tests. Right now they're very strict, very 'harcdore' and not what you would find in a GRID or NFS style game. I can imagine they do frustrate a lot of casuals and serve as only a minor hindrance to more 'hardcore' players so why not totally change the style, make it a more casual, laid back section.

Obviously the GT Academy is about finding a top driver and eliminating the others, that wouldn't work as a license test replacement but some of the training they complete can certainly be extrapolated. Like I said earlier, why not earn your first beginner racing license by completing a small section of casual race school/GT Academy events? They would be different from License tests in that there would be no time limit to miss and fail, you wouldn't instantly fail for going off or hitting a cone. You would complete a test and the game would analyse how you did. If you didn't do so well, give them the license but offer extra optional events to improve. Also when you move on and start racing use that performance to suggest which assists/difficulty the driver uses. This has been done in many games before, and it works.

Then as I say use the racing events to earn further licenses, as you do in real life. You complete races, rack up the miles and win/do well in series to earn the next license. This is certainly less hardcore than having to do a license test every now and again yet it still very much like reality, which we crave.

I could go on but all I'm getting at is that with a bit of modification and working for games a lot of real world experiences and ideas can be implemented in Gran Turismo without turning it into a hardcore iRacing for the consoles that doesn't appeal to casuals.

 

[Mulan]

You are all right in the things that need to improve. I dont see
a
conflict in simulator or casual or fun.
PD has a lot to improve in so many areas now.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Was GT5 any of that?

I mean... that GT5 which you didn't need to accomplish some hard as hell license tests in order to race is the hardcore one?

 

[cassiusclay99]

Because GT5 was too vast, too hardcore and too complex and casual players felt it is not "their" game anymore. So they decided not to buy GT6. Because there are simply no 10 million hardcore players outthere.

Come on Amar. We all know that's not what made GT5 a bad game. It was a wreck... An unthought, unfinished, eneven, untested, unfun... SO many problems for so few things that clicked....

How you end up thinking it was too hardcore or too complex is beyond me... Most people didn't even scratch the surface of it because it was too slow, sluggish and boring...or because you did not need to get into its complexity to win all the races. When Races will need real fine tuning to win, then I might agree with you... maybe... But GT5 is so primary.

I agree that GTPlanet is not representative of the millions of players... but disregard comments from those who know the game the best? Pretend that any change in the formula would make GT not be GT anymore?

Of all the critics we see and that are -relatively- unanimous there are: sounds, IA, framerate, grid starts, qualifying, a better thought out career mode (on top of GT mode if you want to keep GT mode in)...

If PD corrected only this, many people would already be happy... do you think it would change GT's DNA to add those ? Would it make anyone unhappy?

You always talk as if we GTfans wanted things that would kill the series in the end...when all we want is more options. Be able to tweak our own experience: from pure casual to full hardcore sim.

And Kaz is killing the series already... Casual players did not buy GT6: is it GT planet's fault or is it PD's ?...