GT6 Sales Discussion

[Griffith500]

I'd say that only due to how much content and similarity the two games share (5 and 6), however I don't think the budget was too small considering some of the big deals that have come up. Like the FIA, Senna Institute, various VGT which may be seen as free marketing and thus helps PD save money (who knows) and so on don't seem too cheap then you have all the supposed currently worked on content as well which would be part of the GT6 budget unless that's now being allocated to the GT7 one. The point is if what was promised for GT6 is instead delivered in GT7 that means a shift in budget and what ever profit was earned here, due to moving said budget may take out of the next game.

I'd be nice to see an Audit from PD or subsidiary companies owned by Sony rather to compare the ratio between games sold and budget to really gauge how much of a success market wise this game was or wasn't.

I don't think the claim was that the budget was too small, just that it could easily have been smaller than it was for GT5. That means fewer units need to be sold in order to break even.

Since Sony Corporation is public, the info you seek should be available in some form; start here: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/index.html.

EDIT: the first quarter report for this year cites decreasing PS3 software sales, and a doubling of income due to PS4 and associated services / software sales, despite that decrease.

 

[Froudeybrand]

GT6 sold like 3 Million fewer copies then GT5 in Jan of this year apparently, but we are forgetting that GT5 was on sale over 5 years.

 

[FT-1]

GT6 sold like 3 Million fewer copies then GT5 in Jan of this year apparently, but we are forgetting that GT5 was on sale over 5 years.

It hasn't been four years yet since the release of GT5, but I get what you mean in regard to being on the market longer. It's been on sale for a much longer period of time, and let's not forget during the time GT5 has been on sale, the XL and Academy editions have been released too.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't think the claim was that the budget was too small, just that it could easily have been smaller than it was for GT5. That means fewer units need to be sold in order to break even.

Yes I saw that.

Since Sony Corporation is public, the info you seek should be available in some form; start here: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/index.html.

Yes I am aware of this too, and I said it as a means for people to go look it up and debate those figures as you've just done.

EDIT: the first quarter report for this year cites decreasing PS3 software sales, and a doubling of income due to PS4 and associated services / software sales, despite that decrease.

Okay

 

[Griffith500]

Yes I saw that.

I see, you were implying that you thought the budget was larger than the other person, despite neither of you providing numbers.

Yes I am aware of this too, and I said it as a means for people to go look it up and debate those figures as you've just done.

OK, so you wanted other people to look up the numbers for you? That would be nice, I suppose.
Obviously the budget will float, and obviously much of the profit will be squirreled away elsewhere in the Sony empire. It's not such a simple relationship, when costs and revenues are balanced across the whole corporation to an extent.

Okay

Indeed.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I see, you were implying that you thought the budget was larger than the other person, despite neither of you providing numbers.

We were speculating not saying anything concrete, why would numbers need to be provided if it is purely hypothetical. I'd have been the first person to say something to that user if I thought they were making a claim that needed proof. So, why do we need to provide numbers since we differ in hypothetical thought?

OK, so you wanted other people to look up the numbers for you? That would be nice, I suppose.
Obviously the budget will float, and obviously much of the profit will be squirreled away elsewhere in the Sony empire. It's not such a simple relationship, when costs and revenues are balanced across the whole corporation to an extent.

No, it was purely a suggestion, not sure what you're extrapolating out of this that really isn't there, all I said is the best way to debate this if you really want to see how good sales are is doing what I said prior. Also I know it's not that simple hence why I said try to find a comparative relationship from the numbers.[/QUOTE]

 

[Aussie_HSV]

I know I'll probably get shot down in flames for saying this, and to be honest I was just a little bored and having a nosey around the forums and stumbled onto this thread.
So bear in mind I've only read the last 5 pages or so.

But the direct comparison between GT5 and GT6 seems a little lop-sided to me.
I understand the obvious direct connection though.

But GT5 was released on on a very well established console that had been around for 3 years so obviously had a large user base to draw from.
Plus, of course, it was the first full GT title to be released on the PS3 platform.

GT6 was released 2 weeks after the next gen XBox One and Forza 5, and 1 week after the next gen PS4.

To expect similar sales under these two scenarios is a tough call in my opinion.
Not trying to make excuses, but surely most would agree it's definitely a factor.

 

[Griffith500]

We were speculating not saying anything concrete, why would numbers need to be provided if it is purely hypothetical. I'd have been the first person to say something to that user if I thought they were making a claim that needed proof. So, why do we need to provide numbers since we differ in hypothetical thought?



No, it was purely a suggestion, not sure what you're extrapolating out of this that really isn't there, all I said is the best way to debate this if you really want to see how good sales are is doing what I said prior. Also I know it's not that simple hence why I said try to find a comparative relationship from the numbers.

Okay.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Okay.

Indeed

 

[MXH]

But GT5 was released on on a very well established console that had been around for 3 years so obviously had a large user base to draw from.
Plus, of course, it was the first full GT title to be released on the PS3 platform.

... and GT6 had an even larger user base to draw from.

GT6 was released 2 weeks after the next gen XBox One and Forza 5, and 1 week after the next gen PS4.

To expect similar sales under these two scenarios is a tough call in my opinion.
Not trying to make excuses, but surely most would agree it's definitely a factor.

I think we can all agree on that it is and has been a factor. However, I personally don't think it has been a major one as some make it out to be. For instance - although it's an entirely different genre and audience - God of War 2 was released on the PS2 ~6 months (correct me if I'm wrong) after the PS3's release yet it still managed healthy LTD sales and was almost on par with previous title.

Perhaps sales will pick up for GT6, or maybe not - it remains to be seen, but I won't be holding my breath. Either way, I wouldn't give next-gen far too much credit.

 

[Aussie_HSV]

... and GT6 had an even larger user base to draw from.


I think we can all agree on that it is and has been a factor. However, I personally don't think it has been a major one as some make it out to be. For instance - although it's an entirely different genre and audience - God of War 2 was released on the PS2 ~6 months (correct me if I'm wrong) after the PS3's release yet it still managed healthy LTD sales and was almost on par with previous title.

Perhaps sales will pick up for GT6, or maybe not - it remains to be seen, but I won't be holding my breath. Either way, I wouldn't give next-gen far too much credit.

But with many selling-up/trading-in and migrating, or at least saving to migrate, to the PS4.

Anyway, if I'm honest I'm not overly interested in this subject.
Although I did enjoy reading others thoughts on the topic.

And on that note, I'll leave you all to continue your discussion.

 

[Griffith500]

... and GT6 had an even larger user base to draw from.


I think we can all agree on that it is and has been a factor. However, I personally don't think it has been a major one as some make it out to be. For instance - although it's an entirely different genre and audience - God of War 2 was released on the PS2 ~6 months (correct me if I'm wrong) after the PS3's release yet it still managed healthy LTD sales and was almost on par with previous title.

Perhaps sales will pick up for GT6, or maybe not - it remains to be seen, but I won't be holding my breath. Either way, I wouldn't give next-gen far too much credit.

PS2 had a much larger installed userbase at that time (well over 100 million worldwide), which was still growing (6 million sales in 2006, 3.8 in 2007, in Europe alone). Not comparable to the relatively expensive PS3 at that time.

Despite that, Sony were aiming for similar end-of-life total sales (shipped units, actually) as the PS2 (~150 million) for the PS3 by 2015, when they plan to discontinue support after 9 years (PS2 was dropped only last year; 13 years). The total was only at around 80 million for PS3 when GT6 released, though, with around 4 million sales that year.

The PS3 was selling less before the PS4 released than the PS2 was before the PS3 released, and the PS4 isn't as expensive relative to the PS3 as the PS3 was to the PS2.

Sony themselves claim PS3 software sales are down and have been for at least a year already. Where did that userbase go? Software sales for PS2 were strong well after the PS3's release.
The other thing is that SCEI were posting losses into 2010 with the PS3, due to hardware costs; they are posting profits for the PS4 right now.

Looks like they learned their lesson, alright.

Again, there is no evidence to suggest that GT6's sales are at all "disastrous", based on the environment it released into, and Sony's plans overall.

 

[Beat the Beat]

New data saying it sold an estimate of 438,480 copies in Europe from January to the end of June.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824

 

[DingoDile]

New data saying it sold an estimate of 438,480 copies in Europe from January to the end of June.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824

Europe is the GT kingdom and those amount of copies are very bad for a GT game. I knew it cant sell well on PS3, but not that bad. Releasing GT6 on PS3 was one of the biggest Sony/PD mistakes, but I think GT7 will sell very good on PS4.

 

[HKS racer]

New data saying it sold an estimate of 438,480 copies in Europe from January to the end of June.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824

Now let's see if they'll learn the lesson.

 

[machschnel]

Again, there is no evidence to suggest that GT6's sales are at all "disastrous", based on the environment it released into, and Sony's plans overall.

Yeah, GTAV sold substantially less than it's predecessor in the hostile, end of generation environment.

New data saying it sold an estimate of 438,480 copies in Europe from January to the end of June.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=873824

Somehow I think any chance of a quantum leap in DLC is now out of the question - did enough people even buy the game to make and grand DLC scheme viable?

 

[HKS racer]

Somehow I think any chance of a quantum leap in DLC is now out of the question - did enough people even buy the game to make and grand DLC scheme viable?

They need to change their mind and finally listen to the people.
Starting from the easy things that can improve gameplay drammatically.

Like this one.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/choose-ai-cars-why-only-with-a-secret-menu.309566/

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Yeah, GTAV sold substantially less than it's predecessor in the hostile, end of generation environment.

Which other old gen only games besides GT6 did well? Hiw much did Grid Autosport sell?

 

[amar212]

There are few key variables missing in those numbers, I have briefly discussed the viewpoints with Nirolak at GAF, but here they are, GTP is probably better place to talk about it.

I'll try to line up everything logically.

• We still haven't see any official sales-numbers for GT6
• This GSK report covers 20 most important European countries
• GSK data does not include digital sales
• GT5 was never available through digital sales for example, so we do not know how actual impact have digital availability had in any territory
• This data covers period from January to June 2014 and does not include data for release month of GT6, which was December 2013… and here is where it gets interesting:
• Also today, the another very precise source, Japanese Media Create, has revealed their sales data for the 2013. Gran Turismo 6 is actually included in that data, because of its December 2013 release. Also, although it has been on sale for mere 25 days of December 2013 - in the 12 months of 2013 what the report covers - it managed to sell 275.687 copies and secure itself respectable position of #26 in whole 2013 Japan sales
• So, apparently, the December 2013 sales were crucial to determine actual sales for GT6 - because that single number for 25 days of December 2013 for Japan is more than 70% of sales for the Europe combined in GSK report for the 6 months span -
• And we do not have data for December 2013 in the GSK report
• And there are no digital sales in GSK report, just to repeat

What is my personal conclusion from all above?

GT6 sales are probably below GT5 sales. We can't know how much exactly, but all above mentioned numbers are showcase of such presumption.

Until Polyphony updates its list one day, we can't know any true numbers combined.

 

[machschnel]

Which other old gen only games besides GT6 did well? Hiw much did Grid Autosport sell?

Grid Autosport? GTAV is the more apt comparison -

* Released at a similar time

* Last game in the series (GTAIV/GT5) was a big seller

* Has nearly always enjoyed "top of the charts" sales for it's genre

* Big budget

* Long development cycle


Although I understand the (possibly subconscious) wish to compare GT6 to a game released mainly to fix the ill's of it's predecessor.

 

[HKS racer]

@amar212
You are definitely trying your best. But it's still an impressive number. I highly doubt you can expect more than 250.000 units from digital deliveries.

 

[amar212]

@amar212
You are definitely trying your best. But it's still an impressive number. I highly doubt you can expect more than 250.000 units from digital deliveries.

Hahah, but I am not trying anything.

Honestly, I personally think how GT6 sales at this moment are around 3M, which would be 60% below GT5 sales in the same period during 2009-2010.

However, I have no way to verify such opinion, as noone else have.

I am simply trying to have sanity checked

 

[Freeman_Cruz]

Grid Autosport? GTAV is the more apt comparison -

* Released at a similar time

* Last game in the series (GTAIV/GT5) was a big seller

* Has nearly always enjoyed "top of the charts" sales for it's genre

* Big budget

* Long development cycle


Although I understand the (possibly subconscious) wish to compare GT6 to a game released mainly to fix the ill's of it's predecessor.

When GTA V was published had not been yet launched PS4 or Xbox ONE.

The new generation was highly anticipated by most dedicated players as evidenced by its initial sales that have exceeded those of any other generation.

Once launched the next generation consoles, sales for PS360 games have fallen sharply.

You can check the stats and see that the versions of PS4 games like Watch Dogs have sold significantly more than PS3 despite having installed about 8 times smaller base.

And sales of new releases of games whose previous versions were sold very well as Castlevania Lords of Shadow or Dark Soul's 2 have been quite disappointing.

GTA V if it had come out in December or January for PS3 and One would not approach the sales he has achieved.

 

[Blkout]

It was a bad idea to release GT6 on PS3. Should have held those resources for a GT6 on PS4 even if the content was limited compared to its predecessor like FM5.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Grid Autosport? GTAV is the more apt comparison -

* Released at a similar time

* Last game in the series (GTAIV/GT5) was a big seller

* Has nearly always enjoyed "top of the charts" sales for it's genre

* Big budget

* Long development cycle


Although I understand the (possibly subconscious) wish to compare GT6 to a game released mainly to fix the ill's of it's predecessor.

GTA is the most well known video game franchise out there. GT6 is the successor of a very disappointing GT5 1.00 for most people.

 

[mister dog]

... and GT6 had an even larger user base to draw from.

Until Polyphony updates its list one day, we can't know any true numbers combined.

The fact that they don't implies to me that they aren't too proud of the numbers in order to gloat about it in public.

 

[Griffith500]

...

The fact that they don't implies to me that they aren't too proud of the numbers in order to gloat about it in public.

Again, whose "benefit" would that gloating be for? The investors.

Sony isn't investing in the PS3 any more, so Sony's investors aren't investing in the PS3, either; focus has shifted to where the money is being spent (and hence a return being gambled upon): the PS4.

That's why all the reporting of sales and profits by Sony are for the PS4 and associated services and media.

 

[trustjab]

Theyre just fine telling the world theyve sold 10million PS4's and had a surprise quarterly profit while expecting a loss! GT6 on ps3's sales aren't on Sony's minds much imo.

 

[mister dog]

Again, whose "benefit" would that gloating be for? The investors.

Sony isn't investing in the PS3 any more, so Sony's investors aren't investing in the PS3, either; focus has shifted to where the money is being spent (and hence a return being gambled upon): the PS4.

That's why all the reporting of sales and profits by Sony are for the PS4 and associated services and media.

PD doesn't really need investors anymore, so the gloating would be more for the sake of gloating and demonstrating how successful the franchise still is, but i don't think it's that successful anymore hence the silence regarding sales numbers 9 months after release.

All we can do is speculate though

 

[Johnnypenso]

PD doesn't really need investors anymore, so the gloating would be more for the sake of gloating and demonstrating how successful the franchise still is, but i don't think it's that successful anymore hence the silence regarding sales numbers 9 months after release.

All we can do is speculate though

Agreed. You can bet if they had sold 15 Million copies they'd be shouting it from the rooftops! "Look, our game is so great, we sold 15M copies even on this crappy, outdated console!!!!!!!!!"