GT6 Sales Discussion

[MasamuneDate]

@Voodoovaj

Me: "Wowo! That girl looks beutiful !"
You: "She may look beautiful...but she is not..."
Me: "Well.... I mean...she looks beautiful for sure.... so how could she not be beautiful..."
You: "Beautiful is what is she looks... but beautiful she ain't"
Me: "Well...beauty is how she looks like... other than what she looks like is... something else..."
You: "Some things might look beautiful young padawan.... but they are not. Trust not your eyes"
Me: "Well... ok then."

Voodoovaj is talking about a game that's still in Alpha phase, it haven't even entered Beta stage. There's a lot of placeholders in the game, and a lot of features that have not been implemented so far. He should save his judgement for after the game is released so he can take a good LOOK at it properly.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Yes, because all the pre-release GT6 videos contained stellar driving and everything looked wonderful. Tell me how often you see any good quality driving from any show? Darin from ISR tried it at E3 and he said it was awful and completely different than driving it on his own rig in the comfort of his own home. If we were to judge any driving games by what happens at E3 or any similar event, no one would ever buy one.

Use your head man.

I'm not basing my point of view from the video. I'm basing it on messages I got in my inbox from friends that got to try it. "NFS S*** all over again" was one quote. Now, do I hope it amazing? Yes. The 1 second clip of the Merc touring car alone makes me want it AND a worthy competitor will make everyone up their game. Slightlymad has had good games and no so good and it all comes down to the little tweaks. Currently, it isn't right.

AND...it isn't PS3....so, it has to be good enough to warrant a PS4 purchase, and if I NEED a wheel to play, forget about it. I don't have man cave space for a wheel rig.

@cassiusclay99 What I am saying is that video games are about the play. The graphics sell it, for sure, but they aren't an indicator of the whole experience. To your analogy, the girl could be beautiful and could also be a complete psycho that you would never want to be around. The older guys will know that scenario all too well

 

[Voodoovaj]

Voodoovaj is talking about a game that's still in Alpha phase, it haven't even entered Beta stage. There's a lot of placeholders in the game, and a lot of features that have not been implemented so far. He should save his judgement for after the game is released so he can take a good LOOK at it properly.

...and I'm jaded from having seen this scenario play out poorly so many times before.

But yes, I could be completely wrong and it can become the most amazing racer ever. They have a lot riding on it so I am hoping they knock it out of the park.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not basing my point of view from the video. I'm basing it on messages I got in my inbox from friends that got to try it. "NFS S*** all over again" was one quote. Now, do I hope it amazing? Yes. The 1 second clip of the Merc touring car alone makes me want it AND a worthy competitor will make everyone up their game. Slightlymad has had good games and no so good and it all comes down to the little tweaks. Currently, it isn't right.

AND...it isn't PS3....so, it has to be good enough to warrant a PS4 purchase, and if I NEED a wheel to play, forget about it. I don't have man cave space for a wheel rig.

Again, basing feedback on any driving game from E3 or any other conference is ridiculous, especially when there is a mountain of feedback out there that is the exact opposite. It's ridiculous to draw conclusions from a gameshow about anything other than graphics and maybe menus.

 

[Lambob]

Everyone here , Kaz included, will be buying and playing Project Cars.

Everyone will also buy GT7 on the PS4. Will we all play both? who knows, but one thing for sure is that Everyone here, will be playing GT7.

 

[MustangManiac]

Everyone here , Kaz included, will be buying and playing Project Cars.

Everyone will also buy GT7 on the PS4. Will we all play both? who knows, but one thing for sure is that Everyone here, will be playing GT7.

I am not sure where you are getting your information, from the fan boys club I am not going to go out and buy a PS4 just to play GT7 (and a new wheel). If I have a PS4 when it comes out I will not be pre-ordering it again, I will wait for reviews.

 

[MasamuneDate]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/06/27/gran-turismo-7-in-development-wont-release-in-2014

Kazunori also says in this interview that he won't ditch the standard cars. Count me out of GT7 sales charts.

 

[Lambob]

I am not sure where you are getting your information, from the fan boys club I am not going to go out and buy a PS4 just to play GT7 (and a new wheel). If I have a PS4 when it comes out I will not be pre-ordering it again, I will wait for reviews.

won't you be your own critic? you need someone else to tell you about how GT7 will be? to each his own

 

[kollosson]

You should have just stopped right there. Another way you could write that is, "I think GT6 is better than 5 apart from the [95% of the game]..."

GT6 is a single player game so if 6 is better than 5 apart from the single player game, that means it's a worse game. The AI are horrible, therefore the offline racing portion of the game is horrible. Online is a crapshoot with no driver rating system, no flags, no way to search by tire choice, mostly a random search of rooms. What's left? TT's and hotlapping. So if you aren't really, really into TT's and hotlapping..then what?

I think GT6 is better than GT5 other than the single player campaign, lots of things have been polished, that's my opinion, think you can live with that ?

Ho yes... the praising documentary released when everyone in the community was waiting for news about the game, missing features, bug unfixed, etc...

The documentary produced by Sony....

yeah right: sure we can trust it to deliver absolute truth ! Big companys don't do PR do they ? 👎

Am I sensing a little sarcasm ? I think I am, yes, I'm quite positive that you are being sarcastic...

who cares about GT6 sales? we got GT7 coming on ps4

 

[MasamuneDate]

Who cares about GT6, we got GT7 coming on PS4

Hey, man. Triple-posting?! This is getting rather annoying.
Even trolling has its limits.

 

[avens]

True...even at 2.5 milllions sales, PD still earns money (especially reusing 80% of the assets from GT5...that reused 80% of its asstes from GT4...arf arf arf)...

But for a serie of that scale, earning money is not enough: you need to expand...
Now I know Sony didn't expect to sell more GT6 than GT5.... but, even if profitable, the rumored numbers are VERY alarming.

We don't have the info, but I'll speculate PD doesn't work like that.

Most likely Sony finances PD as a first party studio, in the sense that PD doesn't suffer as much from low sales as third parties do.

This means PD still earns money no matter what -today- and that a expansion decision is on both Sony's and Kaz's shoulders. On the latter we know Kaz likes smaller teams, so increasing manpower is likely not going to happen, for example for having more premium cars and for keeping up with the ever increasing costs of making games.

I will not make a judgment until see at least some official numbers, being wiser to wait at least until GT7 to see at that point how much sales reached GT6 given its final features, and probably Spec 2 sale discs. But given the situation just 5-6M sales can be considered good for this title.

Now, if GT7 on a PS4 don't reach 9-10M at the end of its lifetime, we can engage the alarms.

I have always wondered, what are official games sales?

The data we have about the GT series comes from PD/Sony itself. Is that really reliable?

Also in those stats a big portion of the final numbers are sales after the first year, which is flawed. You can't compare (the revenue of) a $60 game with a $20 or less re-release or late sale, but they do regardless.

 

[jimipitbull]

Also in those stats a big portion of the final numbers are sales after the first year, which is flawed. You can't compare a $60 game with a $20 or less re-release or late sale, but they do.

It's not flawed. 1 game sold = 1 sale

You can't buy half or third of a blueray disc, but 2 or more people could buy 1 disc between them.(=1 sale)

 

[avens]

It's not flawed. 1 game sold = 1 sale

You can't buy half or third of a blueray disc

With that logic a "GT5 XL" version sale shouldn't count as a "GT5" sale. From a business point of view they indeed are different games, products, and different blurays as well.

However with yours a 2014 "new" GT5 copy sold for $5 still counts as a 2009 $60 copy, which accounting-wise isn't flawed per se as long as internally they acknowledge revenue is not.

 

[jimipitbull]

With that logic a "GT5 XL" version sale shouldn't count as a "GT5" sale. From a business point of view they are indeed different games, products.

No. The original has free updates available which effectively make them both the same

 

[avens]

No. The original has free updates available which effectively make them both the same

And what does that have to do with sales?

 

[jimipitbull]

And what does that have to do with sales?

A ratio of 1:1

 

[avens]

ok I'm done.

 

[MustangManiac]

won't you be your own critic? you need someone else to tell you about how GT7 will be? to each his own

No, I got burned paying full price for half a game with GT6 and I'm not stupid enough to let PD do it again 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's not flawed. 1 game sold = 1 sale

You can't buy half or third of a blueray disc, but 2 or more people could buy 1 disc between them.(=1 sale)

You are perfecting the strawman routine..well done. Unit sales =/= $$sales. GT5 had a long and happy shelf life and wasn't discounted much until later in it's life. We already know that GT6 is being discounted heavily and this was happening a few months into it's life cycle. When you can convince me that PD sees the 2.5millionth unit sold at $15 equal to the 2.5millionth unit sold at $39.95 then you've got something.

The fact that GT6 is so heavily discounted so early in it's life cycle indicates it isn't selling well, and the value that PD places on the game since it's willing to basically whore it out through the bargain bin.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Everyone here , Kaz included, will be buying and playing Project Cars.

Hell yeah Kaz will be playing pCARS, he's that bored of his own game. Oh wait, he knows theres competition?

 

[AudiMan2011]

Hell yeah Kaz will be playing pCARS, he's that bored of his own game. Oh wait, he knows theres competition?

No he doesn't, he's still stuck in 1997 and probably still plays GT1 on the ancient PS1.

 

[Samus]

By the way about the sales, it's possible that PD revealed them during the FIA event. Only problem is if they did, nobody noticed or took a picture that showed them.

 

[TokoTurismo]

No he doesn't, he's still stuck in 1997 and probably still plays GT1 on the ancient PS1.

This. No wonder we've seen hardly any improvements in GT5 and GT6.

By the way about the sales, it's possible that PD revealed them during the FIA event. Only problem is if they did, nobody noticed or took a picture that showed them.

If he has and told everyone and FIA to keep quiet, than wow, Kaz is something else.

 

[Zer0]

I have always wondered, what are official games sales?

http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/list.html

The data we have about the GT series comes from PD/Sony itself. Is that really reliable?

Yes, that is the only reliable data available. See the above link and you will not find GT6, yet.

Also in those stats a big portion of the final numbers are sales after the first year, which is flawed. You can't compare (the revenue of) a $60 game with a $20 or less re-release or late sale, but they do regardless.

You mean retailers disccounts? once the game is distributed (sold by Sony to the retailers) the public sale price is not relevant to Sony as is already paid. Every game it has an "insurance lifeguard" included in its price in the case that game devolution were issued to Sony (defective discs, etc). So they are covered in all fronts with big margins. Also the variance of the public sale prices in the total of sales is not only a GT thing, but of every title in existence, and that counts also reedited versions at reduced prices in previous GT games.

 

[MXH]

By the way about the sales, it's possible that PD revealed them during the FIA event. Only problem is if they did, nobody noticed or took a picture that showed them.

I assume they used the numbers from ther website, which doesn't include GT6 for obvious reasons.

 

[jimipitbull]

You are perfecting the strawman routine..well done. Unit sales =/= $$sales. GT5 had a long and happy shelf life and wasn't discounted much until later in it's life. We already know that GT6 is being discounted heavily and this was happening a few months into it's life cycle. When you can convince me that PD sees the 2.5millionth unit sold at $15 equal to the 2.5millionth unit sold at $39.95 then you've got something.

The fact that GT6 is so heavily discounted so early in it's life cycle indicates it isn't selling well, and the value that PD places on the game since it's willing to basically whore it out through the bargain bin.

PD, actually Sony sets the wholesale price. The retailer buys in bulk and sets the retail price. Once x many copies are sold at retail level for $y, a break even point is reached. Sales from the remaining stock is all profit. Retailer often discounts the price on this stock to increase turnover.

If PD, oops. If Sony were wanting to whore it out, the digital price would be heavily discounted. Currently it's $49 on (Aus) PStore, which is the normal price for a 6 month old game.

 

[mister dog]

Bump! 2.38 million sold globally as of 19th of July:

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/72181/gran-turismo-6/

Seems it's stagnating since the last time i looked a month ago, bet second hand copies now dominate the market.

edit: i heard @Tornado has sales numbers from another source?

 

[Tornado]

PD, actually Sony sets the wholesale price. The retailer buys in bulk and sets the retail price. Once x many copies are sold at retail level for $y, a break even point is reached. Sales from the remaining stock is all profit. Retailer often discounts the price on this stock to increase turnover.

This all sounds so familiar. I wonder when the concept of the altruistic, less-profit retailer can finally be explained. Do they get tax benefits similar to non-profit companies?







Anyway, now we have do have some of those hard numbers everyone has been calling for since the game released, at least for Japan. I've been waiting for these for a couple months now:

59. [PS3] Gran Turismo 6 # <RCE> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2013.12.05} (¥6.980) - 71.362 / 354.048

Linky.

Trying to corroborate them, but it doesn't seem to be on GAF yet.

354,000 copies in Japan as of the end of June. 71,000 copies this year.


Compared to GT5:

093. [PS3] Gran Turismo 5 (SCE) - 50,754 (595,881)

Linky.

595,000 copies at the end of June of 2011. 51,000 that year.

A bit over half as many sales over nearly the same period of time (7 months versus 7 months and two weeks), but GT6 sales don't seem to have dropped off any more than GT5's did. At the end of the year in 2010, GT5 had sold 545,000 copies. At the end of last year, GT6 had sold 282,000 copies. Let's say that the 20,000 copies that GT6 has caught up is due to the week and a half less time it had been on the market by June of the following respective year, and other than the dramatically lower initial sales GT6 has been selling about as consistently (maybe a tiny bit better, impossible to tell without weekly charts) as GT5 had in Japan. Those sales numbers are just physical copies as well, so GT6 may be doing somewhat better than GT5 to date (ignoring the initial huge discrepancy) depending on how well the game was advertised in Japan following things like the Senna content or whatever.

 

[GBalao888]

Standard cars are still cars, only that they have no interior and PS2-style texturing. The main factors to boost GT6's sales is to include promised features, and mostly, the suggestions on the two links on my signature.

 

[nasanu]

Standard cars are still cars, only that they have no interior and PS2-style texturing. The main factors to boost GT6's sales is to include promised features, and mostly, the suggestions on the two links on my signature.

Nothing PD does will help or hinder general GT6 sales into the future. They will be what they will be. The general public is never going to learn about the updates and it is only they who might possibly be in the market for GT6 at this stage.

This thread makes me fear for humanity. The ridiculous logic on display is scary because the people actually believe it. A sale is not a sale if it is discounted... Ok (the question was what are sales numbers, not what are PD's financials ). PD is 'whoring' the game out to bargain bins even though they have nothing at all to do with setting the price.. Ok. We now live in an alternate reality where GT5 was not heavily discounted after the launch period... Ok... I just shouldn't enter these threads. No amount of logical argument is going to turn someone who believes this crap into someone with the ability to see the truth and construct a logical evidence based argument. Pointless.

And for the record, why do the main... lets say 'contributors' to this thread have such a strong emotional attachment to sales numbers of a product?