GT7 AI, will it improve?
- Thread starter Mac117
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- 11,314
- Sweden
- eran0004
Fast AI doesn’t take more resources than slow AI. It’s probably just a design choice, in past games the AI seems to have been set up so that finishing around p3-p4 should be easy, and then they gather some pace when you get higher than that.
Cornering speed has been a problem though, hopefully they can improve there.
Cornering speed has been a problem though, hopefully they can improve there.
- 572
- Italy
- 9,980
- Denmark
This is ACC
And this is GT7 with the "state of the art graphics" on next gen console....
That comparison is unfair. The Viper and environments in the GT7 shot are crippled by shutter speed blur. Light source integration, car model quality and frame rates are things that will set GT7 apart.
ACC looks good but it’s easy to tell that it’s UE4 carrying some rather basic texture layers.
- 572
- Italy
No, if you look closely at the trailer you will notice that the camera does not move forward or backward, so there is not much motion blur apart from the small blades of grass near the camera, the trackside and road surface blurried textures that you see are like that, also the vegetation is horrible compared to ACC
- 1,805
- Mtl
I prefer ac visual on sunny settings than gts artificial quality. And ac car models are great, and even on std ps4 have clean look and is smooth.
This is ACC
And this is GT7 with the "state of the art graphics" running on next gen console....
If PD don't improve the AI even with these old gen graphics than maybe it means they aren't capable of making a faster one
Acc looks great on these, and gt7..no excuses..
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...car model quality and frame rates are things that will set GT7 apart...
:you're fantasizing, and on superficial things to a point, im sure when acc goes on ps5 it will be smooth, and models will be great.
Even ac on std ps4 has nicer cockpits often, with clean soft shadows, smooth replays with great car models with more options than gts, plus ai and physics are on another level. Plus all other pluses like sound design, custom championships, ai that follows each car performance and physics much more closely and are not drones...plus tracks surface in ac put gts already to shame, imagine acc.
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- 9,980
- Denmark
It really is a blurry GT7 shot you highlighted here. The Viper is blurry from speed and the environments are deliberately unfocused. Even GTS textures aren’t so washed out, and the GT7 trailer has plenty of gameplay footage looking miles better. If you want to me to take your comparsions seriously, do it fairly.
I can see why someone might prefer the look of ACC aesthetically speaking, but PD has the technological upper hand in the graphical aspect, which would show in a direct unbiased comparison.
- 51,613
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Regardless of graphics, the programming needs adjustment. AI are set to "Demo" in GT League Beginner. Turned up to "3" in Amateur.
Professional get: Demo, 3 and "Rabbit".
Endurance get: "-3", Demo, 3, Rabbit and "Missile"(reduces to Rabbit, when passed, back up to Missile until a 5 seconds gap is maintained by the User. Then, reduces to Demo).
Professional get: Demo, 3 and "Rabbit".
Endurance get: "-3", Demo, 3, Rabbit and "Missile"(reduces to Rabbit, when passed, back up to Missile until a 5 seconds gap is maintained by the User. Then, reduces to Demo).
It's quite obvious that GT's AI is a design choice.
Those comparing it to ACC don't realise the difference between the two titles in the sense that GT is trying to go simulation is some aspects but it always has and always will have to cater to casual gamers in a way that a more niche racing sim won't because it's a big franchise.
Plus the consistency in AI design from GT1 all the way to GTS suggests they've settled for what they have and have merely refined it a bit over time.
Doesn't excuse it for being awful because it could be handled differently but it provides context as to why there's a lack of challenge.
Those comparing it to ACC don't realise the difference between the two titles in the sense that GT is trying to go simulation is some aspects but it always has and always will have to cater to casual gamers in a way that a more niche racing sim won't because it's a big franchise.
Plus the consistency in AI design from GT1 all the way to GTS suggests they've settled for what they have and have merely refined it a bit over time.
Doesn't excuse it for being awful because it could be handled differently but it provides context as to why there's a lack of challenge.
- 864
- Oslo
- o9revo
From my experience. The AI are very competitve against eachother and they can be pretty fast but as soon as u catch up to them they will slow down and even drive to the side to let you pass. I really hope they will change this and let the ai be much more aggressive in a way that there will be a challenge starting in 6th or higher and with qualifying you will get a good and close race starting at a higher position. I'd even like to see damage physic in the career mode where one mistake might lose your game.
I like to set up custom races to race AI with tyre wear and damage on a difficult setting but after a while it got boring becouse the AI are too ''NICE'' when u get near them.
I like to set up custom races to race AI with tyre wear and damage on a difficult setting but after a while it got boring becouse the AI are too ''NICE'' when u get near them.
- 51,613
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
PD designed AI to be competitive at certain tracks. We know AI signal and pull over at Nurburgring Nord/24H. They crawl at Bathurst and will brake at the apexes at Dragon Trail, Brands Hatch and many others.
AI competiveness rises, the faster the Group. It also rises in One Make races. I've posted in update undocumented changes threads, AI improvements at newer tracks. Some new tracks still have silly programs*cough*LagunaSeca, but majority offer quicker AI navigation. Still, those of us that race Ai, shouldn't be overtaking from the back as often as is possible.
GT7 AI should be competitive across all Groups. Not just in a One Make.
Single Race, Professional, TCS 3/ABS On, No BOP(since it doesn't apply to AI)
Custom Race, Professional, Grid Start, TCS3/ABS On, Fuel/Tyre Wer 1x, Full Damage, No BOP
https://youtu.be/6uPnwj-fR4A
https://youtu.be/mNX9F_F6ifc
https://youtu.be/TWjyemGOgZ0
https://youtu.be/o5NTVmCzmYk
https://youtu.be/mofDuqW54YQ
AI competiveness rises, the faster the Group. It also rises in One Make races. I've posted in update undocumented changes threads, AI improvements at newer tracks. Some new tracks still have silly programs*cough*LagunaSeca, but majority offer quicker AI navigation. Still, those of us that race Ai, shouldn't be overtaking from the back as often as is possible.
GT7 AI should be competitive across all Groups. Not just in a One Make.
Single Race, Professional, TCS 3/ABS On, No BOP(since it doesn't apply to AI)
Custom Race, Professional, Grid Start, TCS3/ABS On, Fuel/Tyre Wer 1x, Full Damage, No BOP
https://youtu.be/6uPnwj-fR4A
https://youtu.be/mNX9F_F6ifc
https://youtu.be/TWjyemGOgZ0
https://youtu.be/o5NTVmCzmYk
https://youtu.be/mofDuqW54YQ
- 572
- Italy
- 51,613
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
The last Custom Race video, I started last and finished last over two laps. Ai did none of the things I posted above. They are actually fast across the two laps. I'd have to barge my way past at THAT PARTICULAR TRACK.
As mentioned in other threads, the vast majority of players don't race in Sport Mode. For those that don't, how many are Beginner or Amateur players? I'd say many. Due to players that don't have much time to play for hours. A Beginner & Amateur player, will more than likely divebomb as much as possible.
Players that are fast, I'm not saying AI are competitive for those players. I already know by members here, the complaints. I complain as well. For Beginner and Amateur players, it's about right. As per my examples above.
Again, as my first sentence reads, PD designed Ai to be competitive at certain tracks. It's a fact I've experienced in this game, each update and track added.
To add, I recently posted about One Make races in GT SPort, PC2 and AC1. I noticed the AI in GT SPort weren't bad. I raced each game one lap with Porsche 911s. GT Sport Gr.3 RSR, PC2 Posche GT3 RS, AC1 Carrera Cup. All at the same track: Barcelona.
Of course GTS AI is no comparison, but the AI was still a challenge.
- 16,578
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
Just bring back the AI from GT3. They always fought tooth and nail, no matter what car you were in.
Silent Drifter
Premium
- 1,332
- Wisconsin
- SilentDrifterGT
- SilentDrifterGT
Even in the GT7 trailer, the left hand turn, before the final chicane. You see the Porsche's brake light come on right near corner exit.
- 360
- France
It is such a wrong idea that by giving an AI that can be overtaken by a monkey you cater to casuals. I mean, if a casual buys gran turismo as a racing game (unlike need for speed for example) then he will expect the same racing he sees on TV and a lot of challenge to get better. Instead, he's already first in the races he starts and there is no sense of progress through the career mode. He may very well give up on the career mode and turn to online, as I'm pretty sure 90% of GT Sport players did.
The offline aspect simply isn't used properly. Just make competitive AI from the beginning but with slower cars like earlier GT's so that it's easier to improve with them. It's better to bring a sense of progression based on real life like being able to master an LMP1 car and win with it after climbing your way with slower and often easier cars. It simply doesn't make sense build the progression of your game by starting extremely easy and still being easy all the way through although with some added rubber banding. Real life racing on TV is thrilling and competitive, that's probably why i think once again 99% of people will skip career of GT7 and jump to online to experience this racing.
The offline aspect simply isn't used properly. Just make competitive AI from the beginning but with slower cars like earlier GT's so that it's easier to improve with them. It's better to bring a sense of progression based on real life like being able to master an LMP1 car and win with it after climbing your way with slower and often easier cars. It simply doesn't make sense build the progression of your game by starting extremely easy and still being easy all the way through although with some added rubber banding. Real life racing on TV is thrilling and competitive, that's probably why i think once again 99% of people will skip career of GT7 and jump to online to experience this racing.
- 51,613
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Member on this site, have pointed out that's not the case. Most GTSport players have not used Sport Mode.
Most of us are hoping AI will be competitive in GT7. Plus, if online still has the same issues as in GT Sport, I doubt offline players will be running to jump online.
- 325
- United Kingdom
- hejustsitsthere
It'd be great if they populated the game with different drivers of different abilities.
One thing I really enjoyed about NFS Prostreet was the fact that besides Ryan Cooper and the 'Kings', there were many other drivers, who always drove the same car, albeit in various states of tune, and were consistently competitive. It made them, and the story mode as a consequence, feel a hell of a lot more real.
Gran Turismo, by comparison, has always felt like racing against a robot army.
One thing I really enjoyed about NFS Prostreet was the fact that besides Ryan Cooper and the 'Kings', there were many other drivers, who always drove the same car, albeit in various states of tune, and were consistently competitive. It made them, and the story mode as a consequence, feel a hell of a lot more real.
Gran Turismo, by comparison, has always felt like racing against a robot army.
- 13,914
- Adelaide
- Neomone
The ACC AI is pretty good. While they sometimes bump me, it's almost always in a situation in which I wouldn't have been surprised for a real player to do so. And generally they're a lot tidier than real players, while still being quick enough to be a challenge.
If Gran Turismo could have ACC AI I think that would be the best result that could reasonably be expected.
- 612
- Italy
I'm optimistic, considering it's mostly a singleplayer game I hope would be likely that the AI might be improved. On GT Sport it wasn't a priority because it was mostly online racing, but with GT7 I think they will work on it. GT7 being a mix of past, present and future it's reasonably to expect that a good AI will be the 'future', at least if Kaz keep his promises
- 13,914
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Thing is, we've all been hoping that for decades and it's never really happened. I don't think it's reasonable to expect any major changes to the AI out of Polyphony, nothing has particularly changed for GT7 that would have stopped them from at least attempting to make good AI for GT5/6/S.
Simple, slow AI is part of their vision for the single player modes of Gran Turismo and has been since the start. It's not a bug or bad coding, it's intentional. If GT7 is the past, present and future of GT then it's going to have exactly the same approach to AI that all the other games have had.
- 612
- Italy
well, GT7 will not necessarily be as GT Sport and it's more singleplayer game and considering they had problems with ps3 architecture it could be the reason why AI was bad on PS3, but on PS5 with much more processing power they will make AI better for sure, especially on a system seller very hyped singleplayer focused game that they are working for years. It's not intentional, it was a matter of limitation because of time costraints and not a big priority and also ps3 architecture messed up. Now they don't have any excuse anymore and definitely likely that they will improve the AI, keep in mind that with GTS they weren't put singleplayer at all if not for the fans discontent, which forced them to put a career on GTS but since it was rushed just for giving to the players something nostalgia related, they almost didn't worked on AI at all, just ported it from GT6
But now, the things will change with a game that will be more like GT2/GT4 where singleplayer is the heart (the past), and FIA and esports are secondary (the present), and I think they will make changes to physics, sounds and AI also with 4k, ray tracing and VR (the future).
This can be the definitive GT game, if they don't screw up. They don't have anymore excuses, and I don't think Kaz would keep intentionaly a PS2 era AI on a PS5 game, a true professional company would never do that intentionally. They did it with PS3 era games and with ea sport oriented GTS, but with GT7 things are pretty different. At worst if it happens again it's only if the production get halted or if they find problems with ps5 architecture which would force them to do that, but only in extreme cases. I think AI will be improved, as tyre model and updates on damage too (maybe on GT5 level damage, far from true simulators, but better than in gt sport definitely)
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