GT7 AI, will it improve?

[05XR8]

That's not what we did in the first four GTs. It's was actually closer to real life back then, than now.

Similar to street racing, believe it or not. I show up to race in my base AE86 versus a Lancer Evo and another AE86. I finish last. The stock Evo is too quick with double the HP and the other AE86 has a high performance clutch, high flow exhaust and maybe upgraded cam. I may have some driving skill, but it's not enough to win.

I've already "serviced" my car by getting the oil changed and making sure the chassis is all good to race. I go to the tuning shop and purchase some better tyres, racing clutch and new exhaust. If I have enough, I'll shame the springs and get an anti-roll bar.

If I then win next time. Even if I win by a big margin, I'm not going to then detune my car for the competitors to catch up. The only time that happens in real life, are for homologated cars in a race series.

However, what we see in GT as Samus pointed out, the cars are already BOP'd and evenly matched with tyres. I win by half a lap every race from starting 40 seconds behind the whole field. I obviously need either better competitors or I'm from another planet.

I shouldn't have to race real people. It's where were headed, but that's not how GT started. The cure for that is, PD provide better competitors.

 

[Samus]

Drive with worse tires. Turn ABS off
You have many options

Yes there are many ways you can handicap yourself, but strangely enough I don't think users should have to do that, do you? I don't in other games, its not a feature.

Also there is another problem with handicapping, you don't know how much you have to handicap until you've already done it. Kinda defeating the point. If I guess and still win a race by 30 seconds then that race is done, unless I keep guessing and replaying. Not fun.

That is why the game is supposed to have adjustable, consistent difficulty. The player shouldn't have to keep guessing their handicap required.

 

[FPV MIC]

Yes there are many ways you can handicap yourself, but strangely enough I don't think users should have to do that, do you? I don't in other games, its not a feature.

Also there is another problem with handicapping, you don't know how much you have to handicap until you've already done it. Kinda defeating the point. If I guess and still win a race by 30 seconds then that race is done, unless I keep guessing and replaying. Not fun.

That is why the game is supposed to have adjustable, consistent difficulty. The player shouldn't have to keep guessing their handicap required.

I agree, I don't think you should have to handicap yourself either.

The trouble I find is that I'm yet to find a game that's either consistently hard or consistently easy enough if even it has a slider, so I never really get a decent AI experience in any game without at least partially running to get it right. Sometimes it takes quite a few tries to get it right to the point of starting on the hardest settings (as I usually do) but ending up still struggling on the easy settings, PCars3 in the snow for example.

 

[ScottPuss20]

GT campaign difficulty can be set up at any level you want.
It all depends on what car you choose compared to the rivals, and how much power and weight you put in it. It has been working like this in each and every Gran Turismo.

Yes but if you feel the AI is not good enough, you still have the freedom to choose a worse or less competitive car
In fact it's a common thing in the early stages of career mode because of no money

Add ballast to the car.

Drive with worse tires. Turn ABS off
You have many options

You're a funny man. If the AI were competent and fast you wouldn't need to run a slower car! Nor would you need to adjust the assists or increase ballast! It seems as though you're blaming the player, not the game, for it's pathetic AI. Remember - play the ball, not the man (or woman or non-gender specific persons)

 

[RacingFan1]

You're a funny man. If the AI were competent and fast you wouldn't need to run a slower car! Nor would you need to adjust the assists or increase ballast! It seems as though you're blaming the player, not the game, for it's pathetic AI. Remember - play the ball, not the man (or woman or non-gender specific persons)

Read properly, and you will see that I said those are options IF the AI is not good enough. I know AI should be better than in GTS.

 

[MroczMR]

For those that may have never played a racing game with competitive AI.



AI Difficulty: Very Hard(7 settings from Very Easy to Legendary)
AI Aggression: High(5 settings from Very Low to Very High)

Yes, there are divebombs, but the AI act so quick, I barely have time to react to cover. I have to cover way in advance and even then, SMS programmed the AI to stick like glue on the track surface, to pass me on the outside.
From Lap 1 to the finish, there is no time to rest. Time is spent trying to figure where I can set up a pass, where can I place my car, backing off and resetting, being patient for an opportunity, trying not to outbrake myself(which I've done heaps). As this race shows, this is what it looks like when all the AI are rabbits.

PD need to give us these options. Us offline players need this in the next GT.

Sorry for small offtopic, but how did you managed to make such nice GT4 GRID in PCars 3? Did they patch classes that they stopped mixing strange cars into classes?

 

[05XR8]

Sorry for small offtopic, but how did you managed to make such nice GT4 GRID in PCars 3? Did they patch classes that they stopped mixing strange cars into classes?

There are the old Silvias in that race. A couple finish ahead of me.

 

[MroczMR]

There are the old Silvias in that race. A couple finish ahead of me.

Yeah i see them, but they do fit to GT4 a little bit. It looks much better than old Escort Touring Car racing against GT3 cars.

 

[05XR8]

Yeah i see them, but they do fit to GT4 a little bit. It looks much better than old Escort Touring Car racing against GT3 cars.

Not sure if it's car dependent. Haven't tried with a different car recently. It's a much better looking grid, with more real world GT4 cars, than in PC2.

 

[cjr3559]

I’m tired of N300 custom Arcade races where the X-Bow trounces everything else.

So in addition to my opinion the AI braking points are terrible, the car classifications need scrutinized.

 

[MroczMR]

I’m tired of N300 custom Arcade races where the X-Bow trounces everything else.

So in addition to my opinion the AI braking points are terrible, the car classifications need scrutinized.

Custom AI car selection would be great. If there won't be such option then maybe combination of Performance Points and classes would be good enough.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Handicapping yourself so you can have a close race doesnt address the AI being so bad that it doesnt feel like a real race anyway.

It isnt even worth the effort to do it for each race - players have to actually like the base settings enough to explore dialling it in

 

[Duppy Gee]

The AI model for GT7 must be a complete replacement. GT is so far behind the competition it is embarrassing. I understand GT Sport used the old AI model because it wasn't originally intended to have a campaign, so PD had no intention of rewriting it. However, being 15 years behind rival games necessitates something new.

I remember a game for the PS1 called TOCA 2 touring car. The AI were fierce. They'd block you from overtaking, run you wide, sit on your bumper waiting for the tiniest gap and nudge you as they're passing. It was great racing. You had to really work for the win. Also had split screen full grids.

 

[05XR8]

ToCA 1 as well. Best games I've ever played. As you said, bumper to bumper racing.

 

[MroczMR]

I think generally codemasters are one of the best with their AI programming. Even new F1 titles have decent single player racing experience.

 

[05XR8]

Been having good battles wiht AI in ACC. Latest I posted in a different forum, but it's still what we need in Gran Turismo.

AI making mistakes, keeping pace and attempting passes from start to finish.

 

[05XR8]

Watching that clip of the RX-Vision driving on the outside of the ZL1, nearly touching the barrier at HSR, not too sure AI have changed.

Really hoping they filled that AI writer position, with a knowledgeable person. GT needs it to not just catch up with other games, but for some of us players to never have to look back. It would be good to know AI will be good now and for possible future GT games. Right now, it's still a big(and frustrating) question.

 

[Samus]

Whole game still hinges it on it for me. Chase the rabbit format has to be gone, the AI have to be somewhat competent with no rubber banding.

Otherwise it's a bargain bin buy. I'm a graying adult now with plenty of other solid racing options, I don't need to put up with the slow AI like I did with the old GT games as a kid who didn't really know better.

 

[05XR8]

I just want to get through the race and watch my replays with some good battles.
Booted up GTS to check out the Porsches again. Did a 10 lap Gr.3 race at Lago Centre II. Started last and of course moved up to 4th in a couple laps. Got by the P3 rubberbanding Citroen, after two laps.
Caught the 2nd place Playstation M6. It put up a fight for another two laps. This actually upped the pace, to catch the lead MPower M6. That car was just cruising around.
Had a three-way battle for 1st for another two laps. AI braking deeper and even passing me on the outside of a few tight turns. Once I made my 2nd position stick, the PlayStation M6 started to fade behind. C'mon, PD. I know I should expect it, but at that moment, I had a little bit of hope. The AI should have continued at that pace to keep me on my toes. Could have battled me for the rest of the race.
Anyway, battled the MPower M6 for half a lap and I pulled away. Just wrong.

PD just need to enable full race pressure for at least half the grid.

One question I never asked, does frame rate have anything to do with AI? As in, having all the cars on screen, lap after lap?

 

[regnar]

I don't believe there will be much of a jump in AI improvement from GT Sport to GT7, as was with GT6 to Gt Sport.
Once we see actual game play against the AI, seeing a single file rolling start again, will pretty much answer the question.
I think PD keeps the single file starts to give the AI a head start as much as possible.

 

[05XR8]

I definitely don’t know for a fact, maybe a question @Jordan can ask Kaz one day, why did PD switch to the single file starts?
Does it have to do with frame rate? Is it indeed their lack of AI programming knowledge? I mean, we’ve had the standing starts for four games and then, they add 16 cars and it changes how we used to play.

We don’t even get side by side rolling starts. Even that would make it better. Why give the Standing start option in Custom and Lobby racing and even some FIA races, but not implemented in GT League?

 

[CoopR_26]

From my experience. The AI are very competitve against eachother and they can be pretty fast but as soon as u catch up to them they will slow down and even drive to the side to let you pass. I really hope they will change this and let the ai be much more aggressive in a way that there will be a challenge starting in 6th or higher and with qualifying you will get a good and close race starting at a higher position. I'd even like to see damage physic in the career mode where one mistake might lose your game.

I like to set up custom races to race AI with tyre wear and damage on a difficult setting but after a while it got boring becouse the AI are too ''NICE'' when u get near them.

I know this is an old comment, but just had to add to this. The AI will literally lift off at striaghts if you get too close to them. I can easily win against Gr.4 cars in my Mazda Roadster Touring car. I've also noticed that if you're behind the AI for long enough, they'll turn on the indicator to one side and just move and lift. This is not racing, this is just avoiding obstacles. They brake way too early, plus they do those wierd mid corner brake taps that really causes bad incidents. They won't defend positions even in the slightest and once you're past them, they'll slow down and the gap increases massively. Even when I'm in a Mazda Roadster Touring against Gr.3 cars, I can win fairly easily. They'll only overtake me in the straights.

 

[regnar]

iRacing approach, at the moment seems the best to me, each bot has different skill levels, racing the AI feel like racing online, the predictably of racing GT bots is not there, the bots in iRacing are aware and defend the inside line if it's safe to do it, sometimes the fastest bot in a race may not be the one that qualifies the fastest, but the one that is aggressive enough with enough skill to work safely through the pack to get up front. Currently all the bots in GT have the same personality & limited awareness.

 

[Keef]

Jimmy Broadbent #69? Uh oh, looks like iRacing is using @Jimmy B name and likeness without permission lol.

 

[regnar]

Taking that Kazunori comments where brief on the matter about AI, and maybe a bit defensive, it would seem at most to expect small tweaks will be made, but the underlying formula of chase the rabbit will remain. Maybe in future comments before the games release we get better clarification.

“When it comes to AI development, it's something you can never be entirely satisfied with; but compared to GT Sport,
the AI is faster and they will drive in a more humane way than they did in the past." Kazunori Yamauchi

I think if they where doing any major changes to the AI he would have happly expanded on the new effort & direction that they where taking.

 

[05XR8]

The last bit reads as if PD actually toned down the aggressive ramming. A bit of contact is fine, but the level of pit maneuvers was crazy in GTS.

 

[05XR8]

Tried the F1 2021 Demo, at Bahrain. If the AI can at least be like that demo, we’re winning.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

The problem is that, by default, GT League in GTS has boost enabled and probably intermediate level too. With boost, AI does weird things and is generally weak and uncompetitive.

In Custom Race without all the artificial tweaks the AI is a lot better to race against. It drives a good line and it knows defense and aggression. What it needs is more speed and more spatial awareness.

The best cups in GT League are one-make single-seaters like F1500A, and Gr.1.

 

[Imari]

Tried the F1 2021 Demo, at Bahrain. If the AI can at least be like that demo, we’re winning.

The F1 games honestly have pretty good AI at this point. I have little trouble treating them like I would real players at this stage. And the few times something wonky goes on, that's why I have rewind active. Rewind is a great tool for making sure that some tiny misjudgement from the AI doesn't ruin an otherwise enjoyable race when they go full Hamstappen on you.

 

[MadMax97]

The F1 games honestly have pretty good AI at this point. I have little trouble treating them like I would real players at this stage. And the few times something wonky goes on, that's why I have rewind active. Rewind is a great tool for making sure that some tiny misjudgement from the AI doesn't ruin an otherwise enjoyable race when they go full Hamstappen on you.

If GT7 get F1 2021 AI level, then I'm more than satisfied.