That definitely wasn't a human player, it was AI as well. It even does the apex braking a couple of times.
GT7 AI, will it improve?
- Thread starter Mac117
- 272 comments
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- 328
- Australia
- Shakengandulf
Ohh , i never thought about it being ai. 😬
- 1,320
- Setúbal
- dacc10
- 963
- United Kingdom
To be honest, I'm kindof expecting the AI to still be of a pseudo-Ridge Racer standard of catch-the-rabbit meets rubberband style.
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- 717
You would hope so 😆
I've done a little three lap time trial shoot out with the AI, the same modded car to take it out of its default comfort zone, same setup, fastest lap side by side video coming later.
I thought the brake input was a joke, but jesus christ the throttle input. It's full on and off in nearly every corner and upto 20mph slower in certain corners.
I've done a little three lap time trial shoot out with the AI, the same modded car to take it out of its default comfort zone, same setup, fastest lap side by side video coming later.
I thought the brake input was a joke, but jesus christ the throttle input. It's full on and off in nearly every corner and upto 20mph slower in certain corners.
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- 475
- Germany
True, it just completely kills offline.
Was it GT5 or GT6 where they had these ridiculous challenges, like 2 laps of untuned GT500 on Spa and you had to catch up 30 seconds to the leader and it was actually not super difficult? Sad when that is the only challenge your AI can present.
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- 51,250
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
I can’t recall that challenge.
Well, PD do offer rewards even if the player doesn’t finish first every race. So, it’s not so important to win all the time. The thing that makes it frustrating, is as mentioned anywhere in a thread about AI, the inconsistency of AI pace.
A player just can’t follow behind AI all race. Where you brake, sometimes the AI brake impossibly deeper. Where you would turn in, the AI are too slow. Where you exit the corner, the AI are in the way of your trajectory. There’s no smoothness to the AI.
AI are programmed to adjust speed too much, in cornering. That’s just the race cars. We know road cars are worse.
There’s no confidence in following behind the AI.
- 51,250
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
Had to chance to jump back in GT Sport Custom Race. Gr.3(RC F ‘17 and RX-V) and Gr.4(Atenza and WRX) default 2 lap races. Fuel & tyres at 10x. St Croix A & C, Autopolis, Barcelona, Suzuka, Tokyo EXpressway SIL. Varied Grid Start from 11th & 20th. TCS off. ABS default. No BOP. HUD off.
With the usual culprit M6s pulling away every race. St Croix saw about half the field pit. I finished 2nd at the A layout because the MPower car didn’t like that I jumped it as it came out the pits. It divebombed me T1 and after I retook the lead later, at the bridge exit esses, it divebombed again on the final turn.
St Croix C, I finished 4th. An NSX beat the two M6s.
Autopolis, 18th. Got spun by the AI at T3.
Barcelona, I finished 11th. The AI just leave me on the straights and are so bunched together in the corners for no passing opportunities.
Suzuka, 16th.
Tokyo, 11th.
Only race I won in Gr.4 was at Spa Wet. AI were hopeless.
The main track I hope AI is improved, will be Bathurst. The mid-corner braking are the main issues. We’ll see if aggressiveness is sorted as being more natural.
With the usual culprit M6s pulling away every race. St Croix saw about half the field pit. I finished 2nd at the A layout because the MPower car didn’t like that I jumped it as it came out the pits. It divebombed me T1 and after I retook the lead later, at the bridge exit esses, it divebombed again on the final turn.
St Croix C, I finished 4th. An NSX beat the two M6s.
Autopolis, 18th. Got spun by the AI at T3.
Barcelona, I finished 11th. The AI just leave me on the straights and are so bunched together in the corners for no passing opportunities.
Suzuka, 16th.
Tokyo, 11th.
Only race I won in Gr.4 was at Spa Wet. AI were hopeless.
The main track I hope AI is improved, will be Bathurst. The mid-corner braking are the main issues. We’ll see if aggressiveness is sorted as being more natural.
- 51,250
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
🤣
no.
I Don't divebomb and push AI out of the way. I race clean. Plus, AI are track and race length specific. If you spend anytime doing custom races, Bathurst is the worse with AI slowing up from the Cutting through the esses.The programming with AI braking in corners, is a problem. Campaign AI programming is clearly different to Custom Race AI.
Campaign AI are scripted and spaced apart for the user to win.
Custom Race have more aggressive AI through the field.
If you didn't know, it's understandable.
- 1,925
- United States
🤣
no.
The programming with AI braking in corners, is a problem. Campaign AI programming is clearly different to Custom Race AI.
Campaign AI are scripted and spaced apart for the user to win.
Custom Race have more aggressive AI through the field.
If you didn't know, it's understandable.
I've played plenty of custom races. What tires are you using? I think the AI always choose the slowest compound.
- 50
- Australia
From what’s been shown the AI may have a slight ‘improvement’ but no - we won’t get the AI this game needs in a single player campaign in the year 2022
- 875
- NS, Canada
I would think the AI will about the same as GTS but as long as we can still change up the field of cars to find much faster races it will be ok.
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- 50
- Australia
Faster races don’t equate to better races. A good race comes from enjoying the experience of being in the moment, immersion and fighting hArd for your achievements. Having non-responsive and slow AI isn’t exciting or immersive and it certainly doesn’t make you feel like you’ve accomplished anything other than ticking a box to say you did the content.
Races should be hard and the game shouldn’t just hand you victories if you don’t want it to.
- 51,250
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
That’s the thing. In other games, I can race one lap with the AI competent enough for me to think, “That was just one lap. Could I imagine one hour of that?!”
It’s challenging and a reward to keep any position, knowing at any instance, misjudging a braking point or exiting a corner with under steer, leads to a train of cars passing by like a BTCC feature race. Then, realise being down the order for a while or until the race is completed. And I’m talking every race. Not depending on track conditions, car type, starting order. Just pure consistency that the AI are challenging.
It’s challenging and a reward to keep any position, knowing at any instance, misjudging a braking point or exiting a corner with under steer, leads to a train of cars passing by like a BTCC feature race. Then, realise being down the order for a while or until the race is completed. And I’m talking every race. Not depending on track conditions, car type, starting order. Just pure consistency that the AI are challenging.
- 40,822
As it pertains to "PD can only do so much with the hardware" vs "this is the AI as PD intends it" (I know it was primarily discussed on the first couple pages), people should remember back to GT5 as it launched:
A game with competent (on most tracks) AI that was a bit slow but was more than anything else let down by frequently terrible AI car selection. It interacted with the player, it interacted with the rest of the AI, it was dynamic, it made mistakes. Especially obvious in B-Spec, there was actual behavioral changes over the course of the race. It wasn't the best, and there were definitely games I played on PC in the late 90s that were better; but it was a damn sight far removed from the trash that GT4's was (AI was slow, terrible car selection pools in events, would make the same mistake on the same tracks every single lap, would take the exact same line every single laphad almost no reaction to the player or other AI, only was competitive in races where they were given cars that were higher in performance than the player could attain, etc) or the wholly-rubber-band-dependent stuff from the previous games (which at least would make realistic mistakes from time to time) and it was a legitimate base to build off of.
It was nerfed to chase the rabbit for all events after about a year from launch, seemingly as part when PD desperately threw whatever they could make stick at getting the game's framerate to not be atrocious; essentially destroying all of the qualities it had that you might have been able to see if you were giving yourself a slightly sandbagged car to make the races competitive (because now you had to overcome 15 second leads or whatever during a 3 lap race so that wasn't feasible).
Then they produced this:
Seemingly because they hoped people wouldn't notice.
The AI in the games thus far is as good as PD seems to think it needs to be.
A game with competent (on most tracks) AI that was a bit slow but was more than anything else let down by frequently terrible AI car selection. It interacted with the player, it interacted with the rest of the AI, it was dynamic, it made mistakes. Especially obvious in B-Spec, there was actual behavioral changes over the course of the race. It wasn't the best, and there were definitely games I played on PC in the late 90s that were better; but it was a damn sight far removed from the trash that GT4's was (AI was slow, terrible car selection pools in events, would make the same mistake on the same tracks every single lap, would take the exact same line every single laphad almost no reaction to the player or other AI, only was competitive in races where they were given cars that were higher in performance than the player could attain, etc) or the wholly-rubber-band-dependent stuff from the previous games (which at least would make realistic mistakes from time to time) and it was a legitimate base to build off of.
It was nerfed to chase the rabbit for all events after about a year from launch, seemingly as part when PD desperately threw whatever they could make stick at getting the game's framerate to not be atrocious; essentially destroying all of the qualities it had that you might have been able to see if you were giving yourself a slightly sandbagged car to make the races competitive (because now you had to overcome 15 second leads or whatever during a 3 lap race so that wasn't feasible).
Then they produced this:
Seemingly because they hoped people wouldn't notice.
The AI in the games thus far is as good as PD seems to think it needs to be.
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- 566
- Patra, Greece
Brilliant AI from PD as always, because that's what every player wants from a heavily single player game 🤣 !!!
Let alone that having competent ai would help them create new events easily, but with that potato they have to calculate how much ahead ai have to be in order to make it a tight chase the rabbit... 🙄😔
People keep saying the Deep Forest AI looked better/faster but I really don't see it.
First of all a key difference from the Daytona video is that in Deep Forest the car we're watching is also being controlled by AI, and it's also not fast.
- The car starts the race in 9th place, the AI cars are as single file with sizeable gaps, albeit not as big as they were in GTS and GT6. When the Lambo brakes for T1 it is about 4-5 car lengths behind the Supra yet by the time they get to the corner we're past because of that usual GT AI trait, braking unnecessarily mid-corner.
- Heading up out of T1 towards T2 the Lambo is doing the similar trait of lifting when it's easy flat.
- For the next few corners it's clear the Lambo is much faster than the 3/4 cars ahead, the only problem is there is literally no space to pass. More mid-corner braking when not needed.
- They nearly run into the back of the Mazda because it's going too slow, and again, there is no physical space to overtake despite being far faster.
- The Aston seems to be hanging on the outside of the next corner but then it just disappears, presumably because yet again another old trait, AI cars backing out when you get your rear 3/4 near to their front.
- Down into the hairpit yet again the four AI cars all brake far too much, and despite them drawing alongside each other, the Lambo just drives clean down the outside of two cars at once and still easily makes the corner. Now we see the slow AI driven Lambo in action, going far too slow around the outside allowing those two cars to come back.
- Vette brakes yet again on the corner apex that is easy flat, making that an easy pass.
- Now into the final corner and the AI driven Lambo is lifting for no reason, it's pretty clear you can take that full throttle. The other cars go one worse and brake on the apex, allowing the Lambo to catch them on the straight for what will surely be an easy pass into T1.
So in summary, on a tight narrow circuit where passing is physically impossible at times the AI powered focus car, being driven pretty conservatively itself, passes four cars and is about to pass a 5th and 6th into T1 of the next lap.
They pull alongside each other a little bit but I'd hardly call it proper offensive/defensive driving. But for the player, I see no difference. They're still slow, they still exhibit all the bad traits of the past games. The only thing holding the Lambo back is the tight track and it's own hesitancy and casual driving.
On bigger, wider tracks it's going to be a walk in the park, as we saw at Daytona.
First of all a key difference from the Daytona video is that in Deep Forest the car we're watching is also being controlled by AI, and it's also not fast.
- The car starts the race in 9th place, the AI cars are as single file with sizeable gaps, albeit not as big as they were in GTS and GT6. When the Lambo brakes for T1 it is about 4-5 car lengths behind the Supra yet by the time they get to the corner we're past because of that usual GT AI trait, braking unnecessarily mid-corner.
- Heading up out of T1 towards T2 the Lambo is doing the similar trait of lifting when it's easy flat.
- For the next few corners it's clear the Lambo is much faster than the 3/4 cars ahead, the only problem is there is literally no space to pass. More mid-corner braking when not needed.
- They nearly run into the back of the Mazda because it's going too slow, and again, there is no physical space to overtake despite being far faster.
- The Aston seems to be hanging on the outside of the next corner but then it just disappears, presumably because yet again another old trait, AI cars backing out when you get your rear 3/4 near to their front.
- Down into the hairpit yet again the four AI cars all brake far too much, and despite them drawing alongside each other, the Lambo just drives clean down the outside of two cars at once and still easily makes the corner. Now we see the slow AI driven Lambo in action, going far too slow around the outside allowing those two cars to come back.
- Vette brakes yet again on the corner apex that is easy flat, making that an easy pass.
- Now into the final corner and the AI driven Lambo is lifting for no reason, it's pretty clear you can take that full throttle. The other cars go one worse and brake on the apex, allowing the Lambo to catch them on the straight for what will surely be an easy pass into T1.
So in summary, on a tight narrow circuit where passing is physically impossible at times the AI powered focus car, being driven pretty conservatively itself, passes four cars and is about to pass a 5th and 6th into T1 of the next lap.
They pull alongside each other a little bit but I'd hardly call it proper offensive/defensive driving. But for the player, I see no difference. They're still slow, they still exhibit all the bad traits of the past games. The only thing holding the Lambo back is the tight track and it's own hesitancy and casual driving.
On bigger, wider tracks it's going to be a walk in the park, as we saw at Daytona.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
Driving aids don't turn on the brake lights. Only hitting the brakes does.
Just watch literally any replay from the past few games with the HUD on, it's clear as day the AI cars are lifting or braking themselves. Just like the car we're watching in the Deep Forest video. Terrible use of both throttle and brake. Look at the lifting and coasting at 0:32 for a start. That ain't no driving aid making it lift off.
Then again at 1:39, the Vette brakes which is really bad but this AI is still lifting.
Less than half throttle on an easy flat out kink. 💩
Just watch literally any replay from the past few games with the HUD on, it's clear as day the AI cars are lifting or braking themselves. Just like the car we're watching in the Deep Forest video. Terrible use of both throttle and brake. Look at the lifting and coasting at 0:32 for a start. That ain't no driving aid making it lift off.
Then again at 1:39, the Vette brakes which is really bad but this AI is still lifting.
Less than half throttle on an easy flat out kink. 💩
- 51,250
- Australia
- SpacedustDaddy
The initial trailer, in the RX-V GT3, had aids on. We know the TCS is bad for cutting power abruptly, instead of smoothly. That does have an effect. Though it’s wrong, that could still mean aids are on.
However, if TCS is off in a high horsepower car, could it be that the tyres are simulated to brake loose in 2nd gear?
However, if TCS is off in a high horsepower car, could it be that the tyres are simulated to brake loose in 2nd gear?
- 13,892
- Adelaide
- Neomone
No it wouldn't, because it happens in places and at speeds where ASM shouldn't be kicking in at all.
But lets say it was ASM. So then it makes sense that Polyphony has set up their AI to have an assist active and drive in such a way that it slows the car down drastically at corner apexes? Even if you can explain what is happening, you still have to explain why the developer set it up that way in order for it to make sense.
Which is why I said it doesn't matter. You can't come up with a reasonable explanation of why Polyphony would make their AI brake mid-corner because there isn't one. The AI shouldn't do that. It's a bad driving technique, and if the player happens to be following close behind trying to overtake it turns into brake checking. It's not desirable behaviour from an AI on any level.
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