GT7 AI, will it improve?

[Toysuprahot]

I think PD doesn't even intend on creating a good AI, they think that a variety of events where you win every race at once after you catch the leader 3 laps later on a 5 laps race is enough entertainment for any new audience that isn't very familiar with racing. I think that every new GT game is now being treated as a "new opportunity to introduce car culture" while making it more "user-friendly" than its predecessor by making ridiculously easy and short events in order to in their view "boost sales".

It is sad because from memory, I remember the AI in GT4 being much more competitive and overall the game being more realistic with its standing starts with the iconic revving cars and the music, not mentioning the fact that it was the greatest GT game ever made.

 

[Magog]

They need to get rid of rolling starts and bring back qualifying for single player. Silly it was ever removed. If they have to adjust the AI to give you a fight from second place improvements will come naturally.

 

[Samus]

I think PD doesn't even intend on creating a good AI, they think that a variety of events where you win every race at once after you catch the leader 3 laps later on a 5 laps race is enough entertainment for any new audience that isn't very familiar with racing. I think that every new GT game is now being treated as a "new opportunity to introduce car culture" while making it more "user-friendly" than its predecessor by making ridiculously easy and short events in order to in their view "boost sales".

It is sad because from memory, I remember the AI in GT4 being much more competitive and overall the game being more realistic with its standing starts with the iconic revving cars and the music, not mentioning the fact that it was the greatest GT game ever made.

What I will never understand is how PD mostly get a free pass on it from reviewers. You look at reviews for GT6, where the terrible AI and format completely ruined the single player game, there are a good number of reviews giving the game 8-9/10 without even mentioning the AI. It's only when you get to some of the 7/10 reviews and below they mention it as a negative, but even then some don't. One of the most critical reviews at 6/10 says that the racing is soulless but doesn't expand on why.

Luke Reilly, one of the better reviewers at IGN, mentioned rolling starts but failed to mention the starting last, 30 seconds behind catch up aspect and summed up with "plenty of racing" as a positive.

So yeah, if the reviewers aren't going to pull them up for it, and the millions are going to keep buying the games, you can see why they don't care to change it. One thing that was consistent throughout almost all GT6 reviews were the terrible sounds, and what do you know, they did fix that the next game.

So hopefully if GT7 does feature the same awful AI a few more outlets actually call them out on it and it gives PD a kick up the rear.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

What I will never understand is how PD mostly get a free pass on it from reviewers. You look at reviews for GT6, where the terrible AI and format completely ruined the single player game, there are a good number of reviews giving the game 8-9/10 without even mentioning the AI. It's only when you get to some of the 7/10 reviews and below they mention it as a negative, but even then some don't. One of the most critical reviews at 6/10 says that the racing is soulless but doesn't expand on why.

Luke Reilly, one of the better reviewers at IGN, mentioned rolling starts but failed to mention the starting last, 30 seconds behind catch up aspect and summed up with "plenty of racing" as a positive.

So yeah, if the reviewers aren't going to pull them up for it, and the millions are going to keep buying the games, you can see why they don't care to change it. One thing that was consistent throughout almost all GT6 reviews were the terrible sounds, and what do you know, they did fix that the next game.

So hopefully if GT7 does feature the same awful AI a few more outlets actually call them out on it and it gives PD a kick up the rear.

If GT7 receive bad marks for AI, than PD may will work hard on it and update it with patch. Just like sound that you mentioned for GT6 reviews.

 

[kowalski__1]

Faster races don’t equate to better races. A good race comes from enjoying the experience of being in the moment, immersion and fighting hArd for your achievements. Having non-responsive and slow AI isn’t exciting or immersive and it certainly doesn’t make you feel like you’ve accomplished anything other than ticking a box to say you did the content.

Races should be hard and the game shouldn’t just hand you victories if you don’t want it to.

Well, i can tell you with 100% certainty that the faster AI in GT leaque are better races, it's not perfect but you have to take what the games offers.
I spent countless hours trying to beat the fastest AI at a couple of tracks and it was alot of fun,highly challenging and it felt great when i finally beat them.
And like i said ,i just hope we have that option again in GT7, or they implement better AI right from the start.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I think PD doesn't even intend on creating a good AI, they think that a variety of events where you win every race at once after you catch the leader 3 laps later on a 5 laps race is enough entertainment for any new audience that isn't very familiar with racing.

This right here. If this is how GT7 is, I simply won't buy it. 👎

If what kowalski_1 (above me) says is true, then I will buy it. 👍

 

[Imari]

They need to get rid of rolling starts and bring back qualifying for single player. Silly it was ever removed. If they have to adjust the AI to give you a fight from second place improvements will come naturally.

You're absolutely right.

Unfortunately, we probably have no qualifying and rolling starts because the AI is slow, not the other way around. It's not clear that the Polyphony AI can be adjusted to keep up with any but the slowest real players in equal machinery.

Well, i can tell you with 100% certainty that the faster AI in GT leaque are better races, it's not perfect but you have to take what the games offers.
I spent countless hours trying to beat the fastest AI at a couple of tracks and it was alot of fun,highly challenging and it felt great when i finally beat them.
And like i said ,i just hope we have that option again in GT7, or they implement better AI right from the start.

You don't have to take what the game offers. You can not buy the game if what it chooses to offer is of poor enough quality.

And it's great that you had fun and got significant gameplay out of trying to beat the hard AI. But all players are not the same, and there's a decent amount of people who have been playing for a long time and find even the hard AI to not be a challenge.

Any AI system is going to have some people that it's just right for, the problem is that the amount of people covered by Polyphony's AI seems to be a fairly small part of the player base.

 

[BigSarj]

I just watched this video where he does some experimenting with the AI at Interlagos and what bothers me is that there are moments when the AI is actually racing properly. So as bad as the AI is, there is maybe some decent bones? Idk..

 

[Samus]

I just watched this video where he does some experimenting with the AI at Interlagos and what bothers me is that there are moments when the AI is actually racing properly. So as bad as the AI is, there is maybe some decent bones? Idk..

He's driving a crippled car with inters on the fronts though, which is usually the reason that they appear to be fighting back. On proper tyres he admits he'd be slaughtering them.

They probably do have a few decent traits programmed into them but they're completely outweighed by all the negative traits.

 

[Magog]

I just watched this video where he does some experimenting with the AI at Interlagos and what bothers me is that there are moments when the AI is actually racing properly. So as bad as the AI is, there is maybe some decent bones? Idk..

Excellent video. At 9:00 he explains the AI purposefully slow down to give you time to catch up and they do exhibit a lot of good racing behavior so the AI is working as intended. It would be very easy for them to add additional difficulty levels to make them truly challenging to even good players. It's also fairly logical to think that they take conservative lines as another way to slow down for you and that they don't fight every pass for the same reason. PD want you to win against the AI.

 

[05XR8]

Put it this way, in real life, a grid could qualify one second within each other from Pole position to last place. As the race begins, the field spreads out. Maybe by half distance, the leader(s) encounter lapped traffic. Could be due to cars with failures, routine pit stops, driver error. If PD are going to continue programming slow AI, might as well have some of the back markers develop failures, pit early for strategy or repairs. But wait, GT AI do do those things.

When damage is enabled, AI can be seen to pit. When tyre/fuel are set to max levels, some AI pit earlier than others. PD need to stop programming two sets of AI between Single Race, Custom Race and Campaign/Simulation Modes. Use the AI from Custom Race with a scale rather than three choices.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Which game is that in the video? GT7 or Sport?

I don't mind the rolling starts but it would be nice to have some standing-start tracks as well.

 

[Magog]

Which game is that in the video? GT7 or Sport?

I don't mind the rolling starts but it would be nice to have some standing-start tracks as well.

It's Sport. PD have promised improved AI for 7 but until we get our hands on it I don't think we will have any idea what changes they made.

 

[Chris30]

I always wondered that too, the starting grid would be better cause then you can catch the leader quicker. Honestly they should just let humans race instead of robots(AI). That's why I like online mode better. But it is what it is.

 

[Shingo_civic]

If the ps4 cpu can't take it i don't understand why Polyphony don't make an IA like the Codemasters one in their F1 games where opponent cars use simplified physics compared to the player so they can take corners like 20/30 kmh faster so to give the appearence they are going fast

 

[dacc10]

Cheating AI is not the solution. There's a difference between making the AI faster, and making it good.

Focusing on Online is not the solution either, as most players spend most of their time Offline to grind for credits and for their casual race.

 

[Magog]

Cheating AI is not the solution. There's a difference between making the AI faster, and making it good.

Focusing on Online is not the solution either, as most players spend most of their time Offline to grind for credits and for their casual race.

They don't have to make it cheat. They just have to stop making it slow itself down artificially for people who want the greatest amount of challenge.

 

[dacc10]

I was answering to the previous post, about giving AI cars different physics so they can corner faster than they should.

 

[Magog]

I was answering to the previous post, about giving AI cars different physics so they can corner faster than they should.

I was agreeing with you that it's not a good or necessary solution. The AI has the pace it just doesn't use it because PD wants gamers to be able to win every race they enter.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The AI has the pace it just doesn't use it because PD wants gamers to be able to win every race they enter.

You do realize that is completely antithetical to how difficulty is done in general, but especially in racing games, correct?

 

[Parnelli Bone]

. Honestly they should just let humans race instead of robots(AI). That's why I like online mode better. But it is what it is.

This is the partially the reason why the base game has become what it is, I think. PD figures "everyone's racing online," and then they don't have to put as much energy into making the actual game challenging. The only ones who complain about the weak AI is us, in dinky threads like this one.

It's also probably easier to program rubber-banding. Because as soon as we get by some car, its AI can then shut down and go into "limp home mode". 👎 Then the game only has to focus on those who are ahead of us.

I mean, I have done races in GT6 in which the leader had some ridiculous lead over me, like 17 seconds or something, with only one lap left! Yet I'd somehow become the winner. I I think I am a good driver, but not that good.

 

[Samus]

This is the partially the reason why the base game has become what it is, I think. PD figures "everyone's racing online," and then they don't have to put as much energy into making the actual game challenging. The only ones who complain about the weak AI is us, in dinky threads like this one.

But even if they somehow didn't know before GTS that wasn't true, they absolutely do now. The vast majority of players never touched Sport mode. Besides, there was no online before GT5 and the AI was never massively improved between 1 and 4.

It's also probably easier to program rubber-banding. Because as soon as we get by some car, its AI can then shut down and go into "limp home mode". 👎 Then the game only has to focus on those who are ahead of us.

I mean, I have done races in GT6 in which the leader had some ridiculous lead over me, like 17 seconds or something, with only one lap left! Yet I'd somehow become the winner. I I think I am a good driver, but not that good.

Rubber banding worked the other way in GT6 as well though. When cars were behind you they'd suddenly manage to hang on your bumper despite being 5 seconds a lap slower beforehand.

It happens in all events but one of the easiest ways to see this is the "Old Meets New - Ford GT Duel" at Nordschliefe because it's one AI car on one lap. Do it once and sit behind the AI car all the way around, make no attempts to overtake and don't touch it. Note your lap time. Now do it again and overtake ASAP then drive the lap as hard as you can. The AI car will finish right behind you over a minute faster than the lap it did while you were behind it.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Cheating AI is not the solution. There's a difference between making the AI faster, and making it good.

Focusing on Online is not the solution either, as most players spend most of their time Offline to grind for credits and for their casual race.

I feel like GT Sport was in part conceived for that very reason- because they just couldn't be bothered with fixing AI and found it easier to abandon offline altogether. I think after their initial sales shock they've just recoiled back into dishing out the same GT5 mediocrity

 

[O604]

A bit of side tracking. But I thought this was interesing.

I saw this list on how to be a better sim racer. And #1 on the list was race humans more than AI.

https://www.hotcars.com/tips-to-make-you-a-better-sim-racer/

"The only way to improve your overtaking and defending skills is when you race with other sim drivers, as their unpredictability compared to the in-game AI could help you react quickly to racing scenarios. "

 

[danh25]

about AI:

Gran Turismo 7 State of Play announced for February 2nd (2PM PST)

Yeah, they're a real disincentive to playing the smaller bits of content like licence tests. Even just hopping around in Sport Mode between Qualification and Races was a pain.

www.resetera.com

 

[Silver Arrows]

about AI:

Gran Turismo 7 State of Play announced for February 2nd (2PM PST)

Yeah, they're a real disincentive to playing the smaller bits of content like licence tests. Even just hopping around in Sport Mode between Qualification and Races was a pain.

www.resetera.com

Again, considering his habits over recent times with regards to promising things that either don't come, or come way late and with little of what he actually said was being put in, this isn't the silver bullet you think it is. And from the clips that have been shown, specifically the Daytona and Deep Forest clips, why should I take his words at face value that the AI has changed?

Moreover, how do we not know that this isn't related to arcade, and not career mode where the vast majority of the general gameplay is going to be in the first two months of release?

 

[RedRockValley]

Again, considering his habits over recent times with regards to promising things that either don't come, or come way late and with little of what he actually said was being put in, this isn't the silver bullet you think it is. And from the clips that have been shown, specifically the Daytona and Deep Forest clips, why should I take his words at face value that the AI has changed?

Moreover, how do we not know that this isn't related to arcade, and not career mode where the vast majority of the general gameplay is going to be in the first two months of release?

In all fairness, he wasn’t claiming it was the best AI on Earth, going on to say that he himself isn’t exactly satisfied with it either. It’s much better than him saying it’s the most revolutionary AI the racing genre has seen in modern times

 

[05XR8]

In all fairness, he wasn’t claiming it was the best AI on Earth, going on to say that he himself isn’t exactly satisfied with it either. It’s much better than him saying it’s the most revolutionary AI the racing genre has seen in modern times

We see, in GT Sport, the AI are different between Custom Race and GT League. Silver arrows has a point about which modes is he referring to regarding AI behaviour.

If AI have improved across the whole game, that's good news. Showing progress by allowing AI choices in World Mode, is a start. Kaz not saying is perfect, new one is looking for perfection from this franchise. Just competitiveness, for many solo players.

Again, limiting to three choices is not a solution. A slider works best. We'll all have a test of it soon enough.

 

[Kean_1]

In all fairness, he wasn’t claiming it was the best AI on Earth, going on to say that he himself isn’t exactly satisfied with it either. It’s much better than him saying it’s the most revolutionary AI the racing genre has seen in modern times

Agreed. ...and even better than saying AI has remained unchanged or that it's not something they are focused on improving over time.

The fact that they are improving it, making the drivers more aggressive, adding in more of an element for them to make mistakes, etc. is encouraging to me. ....but as @05XR8 points out, we'll be able to test that out ourselves soon enough.

Either way, I don't see a reason to think Kaz is trying to mislead anyone on this point.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

The AI in Gran Turismo was outdated 20 years ago and we appear to be stuck with the same rubbish in 2022. For a flagship platform title no corners should be cut. If Kazunori is saying he isn't pleased with the AI then it needs to be replaced down the line.

I am so excited to get my hands on GT7 in a few weeks, but the archaic AI is inexcusable nowadays.