GT7 AI, will it improve?

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The AI in Gran Turismo was outdated 20 years ago and we appear to be stuck with the same rubbish in 2022. For a flagship platform title no corners should be cut. If Kazunori is saying he isn't pleased with the AI then it needs to be replaced down the line.

I am so excited to get my hands on GT7 in a few weeks, but the archaic AI is inexcusable nowadays.
He said it is more lifelike and faster with more aggression and potentially error as a result and yet you only focused on the fact that he isn't 100% satisfied with it. I'm sure they will keep working on it but that doesn't mean the current version isn't good.
 
To be honest, if the AI just gets to a point where it doesn't tap the brakes when it reaches a corner apex, it would be a big improvement.
That's really all I'm asking for. It just looks dumb, too. If there was damage, I would take out all the tail lights and try to race in peace.
 
You're absolutely right.

Unfortunately, we probably have no qualifying and rolling starts because the AI is slow, not the other way around. It's not clear that the Polyphony AI can be adjusted to keep up with any but the slowest real players in equal machinery.

You don't have to take what the game offers. You can not buy the game if what it chooses to offer is of poor enough quality.

And it's great that you had fun and got significant gameplay out of trying to beat the hard AI. But all players are not the same, and there's a decent amount of people who have been playing for a long time and find even the hard AI to not be a challenge.

Any AI system is going to have some people that it's just right for, the problem is that the amount of people covered by Polyphony's AI seems to be a fairly small part of the player base.
You obviously don't understand what i was talking about.
I'm not talking about just beating the AI in faster races in GT leaque,anyone can do that.

I'm talking about finding the fastest AI at any given track in GT leaque by changing up the field of cars.
It's like a random generator with about 10-15 different fields of cars one can race against,some are slow,some i'd call medium speed, and then fast and then the very fast.

It's not perfect but if the game is going to let people do it,then great, that's what i was referring to when i said,gotta take what the game gives you.
I like it in FH5 where you can pick the strength of the AI but in this case it's totally random until you find a race you like and then you can keep racing with those field of cars.

Hoping we have that option again in GT7 or something better.
 
Here is a current job listing at Polyphony for an AI programmer I think they are looking to develop/improve the AI post launch.
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Well, that's the cynical POV of course.

The optimistic one would be that we can expect further AI improvements and refinements in future updates, beginning hopefully before the end of the year.
 
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Here is a current job listing at Polyphony for an AI programmer I think they are looking to develop/improve the AI post launch.
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Yeah, and that listing has been up for nearly a couple of years now. It has a non-trivial language requirement - N3 Japanese isn't super high but it's also probably at least a solid year's worth of study for anyone who doesn't have it already, maybe more.

There's the same listing in the Japanese pages for native Japanese speakers. There are also job listings for pretty much every other job you could imagine at Polyphony. Either they're looking to hire for every single position in the company, or they just have ads up so that they can see what sort of applications they get.

It doesn't mean that they're looking to develop post-launch specifically, the recruitment has been up far too long for that to be the plan. They would have had to hire and onboard someone a while ago. It just means that they're aware that their AI team isn't where it should be. Which is kinda duh, but on the other hand at least they're self aware I suppose.


This is the guy who has been working on the AI for the last 15 years or so. Again, he seems self-aware that the GT AI is not where it needs to be. It's a little disappointing that a game of Gran Turismo's size and reputation isn't just going out and headhunting someone with known experience in the field, because that's what it probably needs at this point.
 
If they really felt desperate they could hire a gun from the Wild West along with a personal Translator-san™...

Not-practical in the grand scheme of things, but as a short-term measure it should pay dividends in terms of immediate improvements and AI-team "training".

Just thinking out 'loud...
 
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If they really felt desperate they could hire a gun from the Wild West along with a personal Translator-san™...

Not-practical in the grand scheme of things, but as a short-term measure it should pay dividends in terms of immediate improvements and AI-team "training".

Just thinking out 'loud...
That's pretty much it though. If they wanted great AI for GT7 then they could have done it. It just would have cost them in terms of money and convenience.

They could also just hire a bunch of grads and let them go nuts. It'd take them longer as they'd have to catch up to the state of the art first and some of them are going to turn out to be drongos, but it'd probably be cheaper and you'd get a whole team out it.

Or there's always the option of just contracting another company to do it. Again, not a great long term solution but it gets you up to speed quickly. I apologise for nothing. ;)

The reality is that if it's not fixed for GT7 then it's because it's just not that high a priority for them. Polyphony have money, they just choose to spend it on other things.
 
PD have a tough job unlike more hardcore sims the game must remain accessable.The AI must be challenging yet stimulating for absolute beginners while still trying to be rewarding for more advanced players.The developers put a high priority on racing etiquette so you can’t have AI cars constantly attempting over ambitious passes on track.Having to scale within these parameters results in sterile racing.They could dramatically speed up the AI at the higher difficulty setting but this will likely result in the AI making many more mistakes which could prove frustrating for the player unless PD cheat and add artificial grip to the AI which would be unnatural.I really want the AI to improve as I’m primarily an offline player but the task is not as simple as it is for hardcore sims.
 
PD have a tough job unlike more hardcore sims the game must remain accessable.The AI must be challenging yet stimulating for absolute beginners while still trying to be rewarding for more advanced players.The developers put a high priority on racing etiquette so you can’t have AI cars constantly attempting over ambitious passes on track.Having to scale within these parameters results in sterile racing.They could dramatically speed up the AI at the higher difficulty setting but this will likely result in the AI making many more mistakes which could prove frustrating for the player unless PD cheat and add artificial grip to the AI which would be unnatural.I really want the AI to improve as I’m primarily an offline player but the task is not as simple as it is for hardcore sims.
What? Racing ettiquette is still a thing in other games. Having lower difficulty settings for less quick players is still a thing in other games.

Nothing you said is unique to Gran Turismo, and nothing about Gran Turismo makes it specifically harder to code AI for than other games of a similar type. It's far from an easy problem to solve, but other games have done a decent job with it and in ways that would fit Gran Turismo just fine.
 
Other games don’t force you to watch an etiquette tutorial before you can play online.Other games don’t programme their cars to indicate and move over during a race.Other games don’t sell 10 million units PD uniquely can’t afford to alienate it’s casual audience this priority is much higher than in other games the game is designed to let everyone win.
 
Other games don’t force you to watch an etiquette tutorial before you can play online.Other games don’t programme their cars to indicate and move over during a race.Other games don’t sell 10 million units PD uniquely can’t afford to alienate it’s casual audience this priority is much higher than in other games the game is designed to let everyone win.
Here, let me blow your mind with a solution to suit those people and hardcore racers.

Variable Difficulty. I just invented it, how I thought it up I don't know. You see what you do is make an easy difficulty then get this, you gradually increase the difficulty until it's incredibly difficult.

Here is the most revolutionary part of it all - you let the player CHOOSE this difficulty themselves!

Why video game developers haven't been doing this the last 30 years I don't know....
 
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Yeah, and that listing has been up for nearly a couple of years now. It has a non-trivial language requirement - N3 Japanese isn't super high but it's also probably at least a solid year's worth of study for anyone who doesn't have it already, maybe more.

There's the same listing in the Japanese pages for native Japanese speakers. There are also job listings for pretty much every other job you could imagine at Polyphony. Either they're looking to hire for every single position in the company, or they just have ads up so that they can see what sort of applications they get.

It doesn't mean that they're looking to develop post-launch specifically, the recruitment has been up far too long for that to be the plan. They would have had to hire and onboard someone a while ago. It just means that they're aware that their AI team isn't where it should be. Which is kinda duh, but on the other hand at least they're self aware I suppose.


This is the guy who has been working on the AI for the last 15 years or so. Again, he seems self-aware that the GT AI is not where it needs to be. It's a little disappointing that a game of Gran Turismo's size and reputation isn't just going out and headhunting someone with known experience in the field, because that's what it probably needs at this point.
Yeah the whole things a cop out, they have the resources but instead they have one guy employed full time for 15 years to do minor tweaks around the edges which is much more expensive and inefficient than poaching someone from another company who knows what they're doing for a few weeks/months with a translator.
 
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Other games don’t force you to watch an etiquette tutorial before you can play online. Other games don’t programme their cars to indicate and move over during a race. Other games don’t sell 10 million units. PD uniquely can’t afford to alienate it’s casual audience this priority is much higher than in other games the game is designed to let everyone win.
Hey look, you figured it out. It's not that Gran Turismo has it uniquely hard. It's that they chose to make AI that lets everyone win.

That's the problem stopping them having decent AI. That's the only problem.

Without that particular design restriction, there's no reason Gran Turismo can't have AI as good or better than any other game. None of the things that you mention above preclude having good AI.
 
PD have a tough job unlike more hardcore sims the game must remain accessable. The AI must be challenging yet stimulating for absolute beginners while still trying to be rewarding for more advanced players.
That is not a tough job at all. Many other racing games got it right twenty years ago. It's the bare minimum. Have a look at the difficulty settings for F1 2021, I bet it would blow your mind.
The developers put a high priority on racing etiquette so you can’t have AI cars constantly attempting over ambitious passes on track.
No, you can. Following racing etiquette is not the same as being boring.
Having to scale within these parameters results in sterile racing.
Not really. Again, have a look at pretty much any other racing game from the past 10-15 years.
They could dramatically speed up the AI at the higher difficulty setting but this will likely result in the AI making many more mistakes which could prove frustrating for the player unless PD cheat and add artificial grip to the AI which would be unnatural.
No.
 
Also hilarious to suggest they put a priority on racing etiquette when the exact opposite is true for single player. No penalty system, no damage system to discourage you being agressive and the format of the race practically forces you to be agressive and overtake cars ASAP, barging past them. If you don't, you'll never catch up to the lead rabbit. You don't have time to wait for a clean and clear overtaking opportunity for half a lap.
 
F1 cars have a ridiculous amount of grip it’s easy to programme AI scalability in an f1 game not so easy in a game like Gran Turismo not in a way that satisfies everyone.The AI in GT will improve but it will take time because of the restrictions the franchise imposes upon itself
 
F1 cars have a ridiculous amount of grip it’s easy to programme AI scalability in an f1 game not so easy in a game like Gran Turismo not in a way that satisfies everyone.
You're basing this on what? Your extensive programming knowledge in AI? The fact that all other racing games with cars similar to those found in Gran Turismo all have similarly poor AI? Oh, no, they don't do they.
 
F1 cars have a ridiculous amount of grip it’s easy to programme AI scalability in an f1 game not so easy in a game like Gran Turismo not in a way that satisfies everyone.The AI in GT will improve but it will take time because of the restrictions the franchise imposes upon itself
Then how come games without F1 cars have no issues with that whatsoever? This is all completely untrue speculation based on seemingly very poor knowledge of other racing games.

The only things restricting GT's AI is PD's laziness and awful sense of prioritization.
 
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F1 cars have a ridiculous amount of grip it’s easy to programme AI scalability in an f1 game not so easy in a game like Gran Turismo not in a way that satisfies everyone.The AI in GT will improve but it will take time because of the restrictions the franchise imposes upon itself

Absolutely anything to exonerate Kaz and PD from their own actions. I would laugh if it wasn't for the fact that a major developer house with a symbiotic relationship to Sony wasn't involved.
 
What I would say is that in F1 games, 2020 being the most recent one I have played, the AI basically cheat on the highest difficulty. They're either driving with assists on, or are straight up in a physics engine of their own. It's good AI compared to GT but not exactly the direction I would want them to go in.

I had a similar issue with FH5's AI once you start approaching the highest difficulty.
A bit of side tracking. But I thought this was interesing.

I saw this list on how to be a better sim racer. And #1 on the list was race humans more than AI.

https://www.hotcars.com/tips-to-make-you-a-better-sim-racer/

"The only way to improve your overtaking and defending skills is when you race with other sim drivers, as their unpredictability compared to the in-game AI could help you react quickly to racing scenarios. "
Gran Turismo coming into the online era was a gamechanger for me, and I've enjoyed it quite a bit. It has definitely made me a better driver than I ever was before.

That said, even since playing several GT's with an online mode, some of the most fun I have ever had in this franchise is replaying GT4. They were competent enough to require you to drive well in an un-tuned or underpowered car, and especially in the missions; I could not pass Mission 34 NTSC until just a few years ago. I think you'd have to be pretty good to get really bored of that AI, and they were far from perfect.

Contrasting that, I haven't so much as gotten halfway through a single GT mode since. The aforementioned F1 2020 AI has still given me more than any GT has since. I had more fun with B Spec in GT5 than I have had A Spec in any title since. I tend to go straight for license tests and missions before going online.

If I had internet as bad as I did as a child, online would be an awful experience. That's the reality of many now, and they can't keep leaning on online and artificially difficult License and Mission races for the more skilled drivers to get an extended kick out of the game. Some of us are bigger racing fans than car fans, after all.
 
The AI in the F1 games just get a larger ERS advantage the higher you go with the difficulty.
 
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He said it is more lifelike and faster with more aggression and potentially error as a result and yet you only focused on the fact that he isn't 100% satisfied with it. I'm sure they will keep working on it but that doesn't mean the current version isn't good.
I feel like he has said that with almost every release only for the AI to be completely idiotic. If i had a dollar for every time i've been brake checked by AI on a clear straight piece of track, i'd be rich.
 
To clarify my earlier posts I am not exonerating PD I’m simply pointing out that in order maintain a massive audience accessibility must remain a top priority and so far PD have been unable to programme an AI algorithm that is as accessible as they need it to be while also being as challenging as most here want it to be.There is obviously room for improvement and hopefully it comes with GT7.
 
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