GT7 and the Chip shortage

[Silver_Wolf]

This one

Doesn't matter about the 'media' the fact is that pre dates the interview every one has been talking about recently so plans have clearly changed since then.

The fact PD have said 'mum' for a year tells me a lot, I very much suspect they have been told they have to do it for both PS4 and PS5 and probably aren't happy about the situation.

It's also of 'note' that GT7 has also completely disappeared from the upcoming news on my PS5, that in itself also creates this element of discussion.

Time to wait for the official news and hope it is still just PS5 exclusive!

 

[Samus]

Doesn't matter about the 'media' the fact is that pre dates the interview every one has been talking about recently so plans have clearly changed since then.

The fact PD have said 'mum' for a year tells me a lot, I very much suspect they have been told they have to do it for both PS4 and PS5 and probably aren't happy about the situation.

It's also of 'note' that GT7 has also completely disappeared from the upcoming news on my PS5, that in itself also creates this element of discussion.

Time to wait for the official news and hope it is still just PS5 exclusive!

Er, I made that post before that interview.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

View attachment 1013145

Er, I made that post before that interview.

OOPS! I never noticed the post date, Monday strikes again...

 

[Samus]

OOPS! I never noticed the post date, Monday strikes again...

No worries. Shows how badly wrong I was in that judgement though!

 

[Tornado]

Sure, sure. You are omitting the pandemic, incoming global economic crisis and supply shortages and everything, must have been the main reasons for this. This decision must be about them making the best possible revenue, and not necessarily the best for those who are interested in PS5 grandeur and elitism, of course, but yeah, it seems for some it's so hard to understand different POVs.

"If I repeat statements in a different thread from the one I ran away from, even at the people I originally stated them at, they might be so stupid that they won't notice that I'm just parroting the same nonsense at them."


I responded to this in detail already in the other thread. If you want to regurgitate stuff at me that I (and others) have already litigated with you at length, respond to it there instead of foolishly acting like you're dropping some huge knowledge bomb on people in a new conversation.

Anyway, send them your resumee/CV, you may make Sony great again

"I can't believe how disrespected I am when I constantly respond with smartass comments, misrepresent statements from developers and journalists, ignore responses when they're inconvenient for me, show I have no understanding of the information I'm claiming as proof and repeat claims over and over again across multiple threads. Why don't they just believe me when I blindly insist that the big corporation can't make mistakes?"

 

[RacingFan1]

"If I repeat statements in a different thread from the one I ran away from, even at the people I originally stated them at, they might be so stupid that they won't notice that I'm just parroting the same nonsense at them."

I responded to this in detail already in the other thread. If you want to regurgitate stuff at me that I (and others) have already litigated with you at length, respond to it there instead of foolishly acting like you're dropping some huge knowledge bomb on people in a new conversation.

"I can't believe how disrespected I am when I constantly respond with smartass comments, misrepresent statements from developers and journalists, ignore responses when they're inconvenient for me, show I have no understanding of the information I'm claiming as proof and repeat claims over and over again across multiple threads. Why don't they just believe me when I blindly insist that the big corporation can't make mistakes?"

I dont care about what you say, and I won't bother losing time with you, after you said that I and everyone must earn your respect... And besides, the awfully arrogant/condescending tone of your messages. Who do you think you are? I shall put you on the ignore list right away, I'm too old to get bothered by internet narcissists.

If you cared this much about "expert" opinions on making cross-gen games for old or weaker hardware, why did you ignore all of the other developer quotes from the other thread? I'll repost them for you:

Remedy, Control developer:

"Whenever you're in this cross-generational point, to be blunt, it sucks," Puha said. "You have to support the previous gen, make sure that sings, and then whatever you bring to next-gen is still limited by the choices you made years ago for the previous generation. It's not a very realistic thing, that this old game, we're just going to remake everything and then bring it to next-gen. It's just not like that. It's not a reality for us, because you're literally taking away resources that are building the future games and improving the engine for the future."


John Linneman from Digital Foundry spoke to several devs at the start of this gen:

“nobody wants to develop for an under-powered Jaguar CPU any longer.” “I’ve spoken with enough developers to know how painful the process is at this point,” he added. “Leave Xbox One and PS4 behind.”

Billy Khan of id Software lead Engine developer taking issue with the RAM choice of Xbox Series S, let alone PS4 RAM which is slower and less and not even factoring in the huge CPU deficit the PS4 has:

"The memory situation is a big issue on the S. The much lower amount of memory and the split memory banks with drastically slower speeds will be a major issue. Aggressively lowering the render resolutions will marginally help but will not completely counteract the deficiencies."

Axel Gneiting of id Software engine programmer:

"Also 'it always scaled on PC' is nonsense. Every AAA game in the past decade or so has their assets made once so they run on min spec. Increasing sample counts a bit here and there for high settings isn't what you could truly have done with more power. Min spec matters."
​

And you do realize the Horizon Forbidden West director is trying to sell a product that started development for the PS4, designed with PS4 limits, and was targeted to release before the covid delays right? He's not going to say "oh actually, our game is worse from not having been designed for higher-end hardware, but please still buy our game!"

From a purely developer POV, yes, of course, they prefer to work on PS5 rather than PS4... it's normal that the ideal thing for them is to have plenty of hardware to work on. I never denied that.
The thing is though, those experts I was talking about are not developers, but Sony executives. The decision surely came from those people, not from PD

 

[ImaRobot]

I dont care about what you say, and I won't bother losing time with you, after you said that I and everyone must earn your respect... And besides, the awfully arrogant/condescending tone of your messages. Who do you think you are? I shall put you on the ignore list right away, I'm too old to get bothered by internet narcissists

So the person that was being condescending towards others and being offputting during the whole thing is getting upset that someone took them to town on the things they've said and proving them wrong, and is now choosing to ignore the conversation outright. Should have just moved on from the get go since your time is now, all of a sudden, so precious.

From a purely developer POV, yes, of course, they prefer to work on PS5 rather than PS4... it's normal that the ideal thing for them is to have plenty of hardware to work on. I never denied that.
The thing is though, those experts I was talking about are not developers, but Sony executives. The decision surely came from those people, not from PD

And that has what to do with what that's being talked about? It's not that just they'd prefer to work on the PS5, it's that working on both simultaneously is extremely limiting to the more powerful console, something that you very much claimed otherwise just because some exec or director said so. That they have to develop for both means they can't take advantage the actual console since they have to make sure the game works on the PS4 too.

 

[RacingFan1]

So the person that was being condescending towards others and being offputting during the whole thing is getting upset that someone took them to town on the things they've said and proving them wrong, and is now choosing to ignore the conversation outright. Should have just moved on from the get go since your time is now, all of a sudden, so precious.


And that has what to do with what that's being talked about? It's not that just they'd prefer to work on the PS5, it's that working on both simultaneously is extremely limiting to the more powerful console, something that you very much claimed otherwise just because some exec or director said so. That they have to develop for both means they can't take advantage the actual console since they have to make sure the game works on the PS4 too.

********. I wasn't being condescending to anyone... Only maybe to the ones that deserve to get some taste of their own medicine, that's about it, but I'm respectful to everyone here, as long as they are respectful to me.

A BIT limiting maybe.
Extremely limiting, no way... disagree completely. And if you or anyone disagrees with me, ok, let's leave it here, you won't force me to think otherwise, and I won't force anyone to think otherwise.

 

[ImaRobot]

Bull-s. I wasn't being condescending to anyone... Only maybe to the ones that deserve to get some taste of their own medicine, that's about it, but I'm respectful to everyone here, as long as they are respectful to me.

Yes, you were. When people participated in the discussion and you come along and say things like:

You and others in this forum are apparently so much better than Sony staff. You guys should replace all of them and tell them how to work and make good decisions.

Another smart ass answer lol. I didn't recall this forum having so many people like you... Whatever

This one being a kicker, considering you were literally the only one being a smart ass. That you decided to totally dismiss things being said because people don't work at Sony - as if it completely invalidates what they said - with a smart ass answer, is pretty condescending to me. You are the only one getting a taste of your own medicine. You literally started out your first post here with the opposite of respect.

A BIT limiting maybe.
Extremely limiting, no way... disagree completely. And if you or anyone disagrees with me, ok, let's leave it here, you won't force me to think otherwise, and I won't force anyone to think otherwise.

It's not going to be "a bit" limiting, as the PS5 isn't just "a bit" more powerful. There's an obvious gap between last gen and current, and no pretending is going to change that. If many things haven't happened in GTS already, than it's likely that there isn't going to be big changes that would have happened if it was a PS5 only game, had/if they taken advantage of the power of the new generation as PD aren't ones usually known for making compromises, especially when it comes to outright visual fidelity being compromised.

No one is forcing you to think otherwise, just pointing out that you're wrong in the many, many thing's you're trying to say.

 

[RacingFan1]

Yes, you were. When people participated in the discussion and you come along and say things like:

This one being a kicker, considering you were literally the only one being a smart ass. That you decided to totally dismiss things being said because people don't work at Sony - as if it completely invalidates what they said - with a smart ass answer, is pretty condescending to me. You are the only one getting a taste of your own medicine. You literally started out your first post here with the opposite of respect.


It's not going to be "a bit" limiting, as the PS5 isn't just "a bit" more powerful. There's an obvious gap between last gen and current, and no pretending is going to change that. If many things haven't happened in GTS already, than it's likely that there isn't going to be big changes that would have happened if it was a PS5 only game, had/if they taken advantage of the power of the new generation as PD aren't ones usually known for making compromises, especially when it comes to outright visual fidelity being compromised.

No one is forcing you to think otherwise, just pointing out that you're wrong in the many, many thing's you're trying to say.

That was precisely a comment aimed at some hardcore absolute truthers who believe they are smarter than all.
Time will tell who's right or wrong. I never claimed to have the absolute truth or anything like that, others seem to do so.
You or others believe GT7 on PS4 will be a disaster? Fine, think what you want, I'll say it will be decent enough for those who can't or won't get PS5.
End of discussion for me

 

[ImaRobot]

That was precisely a comment to some hardcore absolute truthers who believe they are smarter than all.
Time will tell who's right or wrong. I never claimed to have the absolute truth unlike others.
You or others say GT7 on PS4 will be a disaster? Fine, think what you want, I'll say it will be decent enough.
End of discussion for me

Not one single person is talking in absolute truths. Maybe that's just you misunderstanding things. Doesn't change the fact that you got what you gave, and only so - also doesn't change how wrong you've been with what's been said.

 

[RacingFan1]

Not one single person is talking in absolute truths. Maybe that's just you misunderstanding things. Doesn't change the fact that you got what you gave, and only so - also doesn't change how wrong you've been with what's been said.

See thats the problem, telling people that their opinons are wrong and only yours are right.
Change this approach, seriously.

 

[ImaRobot]

See thats the problem, telling people that their opinons are wrong and only yours are right.
Change this approach, seriously.

Opinions can be wrong, you've demonstrated that much and not just in this thread. Never said anything about mine being right though, I doubt you even know what my opinion is.

 

[daan]

 

[ImaRobot]

 

[Tornado]

I dont care about what you say, and I won't bother losing time with you, after you said that I and everyone must earn your respect...

Or, what actually happened, was that you demanded that your opinions about something you had no understanding of be given as much consideration as much as the people who do and could demonstrate it, some of them who do work in the industry.

And besides, the awfully arrogant/condescending tone of your messages. Who do you think you are?

Someone who knows significantly more about computer hardware than you do, and grew increasingly unimpressed with your attempts to insist that the PS4 was fine, actually.

I shall put you on the ignore list right away,

I struggle to see what the difference would be at this point.

A BUT limiting maybe.
Extremely limiting, no way... disagree completely.

It doesn't matter if you disagree. You're still wrong, even moreso than when you arbitrarily picked a date a couple years after the PS4 launched and said hardware from then was similar in power to the PS5.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

That was precisely a comment aimed at some hardcore absolute truthers who believe they are smarter than all.
Time will tell who's right or wrong. I never claimed to have the absolute truth or anything like that, others seem to do so.
You or others believe GT7 on PS4 will be a disaster? Fine, think what you want, I'll say it will be decent enough for those who can't or won't get PS5.
End of discussion for me

But this is exactly where the problem lies When Sony is dumbing and watering down the capabilities of a Play station title that has been considered one of the top system selling PS exclusive titles for decades to be compatible with a past generation product instead of using that title to promote the actual higher reaching specs of their new and present console.
That alone does not sound like a really smart decision by whoever pulls the strings at Sony.

That is not even taking into account how Sony had been advertising GT7 as being one of the new PS5 titles and now months later are backtracking and making it a cross platform game, How many people have clawed and fought to get their hands on a new PS5 and spent $500+ to be ready for the GT7 release and now find out that expense for this game was a total waste and their old system will still be fine for the title advertised to be a PS5 GAME?
I would be pissed if I were in that situation.

And last but not least many times the ones making the decisions at these big corporations are not the best at reading the industry or product needs in the market they are in and it shows.
Prime example was Intel and the upper management and the bean counters made the choices on the company's products, direction and even their R&D path for a number of recent years.

Look at their failures, loss of market share and falling behind in the industry they in the recent past basically owned by listening to the bean counters instead of the techs and engineers within the company.
Sure they fired the management, they have deep enough pockets to ride out the position sorry management has placed them in but they have a big hole to dig out of that will not be done overnight.

This actually is a prime example though of management not having a clue to what needs to be done.

Sony is a big company but not just in this division but across many of their product lines from stereo systems to handheld devices has been making a lot of really bad decisions that has cost Sony billions of dollars. Actually Sony is nowhere near the powerhouse of a company they were a couple of decades ago.

And yes in my opinion Sony making the new GT7 game to be watered down to also run on PS4 specs is just another one of their bad decisions to add to the list.

 

[ScottPuss20]

How many people have clawed and fought to get their hands on a new PS5 and spent $500+ to be ready for the GT7 release and now find out that expense for this game was a total waste and their old system will still be fine for the title advertised to be a PS5 GAME?
I would be pissed if I were in that situation.

Why would you bother buying a console for a game that doesn't even have a release date? Buying it "in anticipation" of said game is stupid because the console could be sitting there for months or even years... You would only have yourself to blame.

 

[05XR8]

Well, if someone can reference a news clip I've missed, I can't recall a pandemic affecting multiple game releases.

Buying a console for a game console, before anticipated release date, isn't unheard of. I've done it multiple times. Would have done it for GT7, actually, I've posted I was going to buy a console, but the pandemic hit.

It'll be fine for the people that aren't pissed.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Why would you bother buying a console for a game that doesn't even have a release date? Buying it "in anticipation" of said game is stupid because the console could be sitting there for months or even years... You would only have yourself to blame.

Actually in this one particular case the general consensus was that GT7 would be either a launch title or released within a fairly short time span after system launch as a much improved game taking advantage of the new consoles additional processing capabilities PS5 only title.

With the known market supply shortages causing the difficulty in actually obtaining one of these new PS5 consoles (which actually is still true today approaching almost a year after the systems original launch date) in this case the stupidity would be thinking that just waiting until the game launched and the same day walking into your favorite retailer and grabbing a new PS5 off the shelf would be the actual reality.

Normally what you say is true to a degree but in this case advertising and upcoming game title list released by Sony and PD did indicate that the GT7 launch would be sooner rather than later in this case.

If I was still a big GT franchise player and wanted access on launch day to the new PS5 only title as it was advertised and believed to be I would have most definitely been trying to secure a new PS5 since the console launched.

Granted the advertising has since disappeared by Sony and PD, the suspected being an early PS5 title has evaporated and the game has now been regulated to a watered down release to be a last generation system compatible title instead of the new cutting edge title it was supposed to be.

Due to this I would not be a happy Sony customer and may well become one of the e-bay sellers trying to unload the new PS5 system for a profit due to the more recent developments.

 

[Samus]

Nobody ever officially said GT7 would be a launch title or close to it. Those were always just rumours.

If someone buys a console solely for a game that doesn't have a release date that's solely on them.

 

[TheCracker]

Actually in this one particular case the general consensus was that GT7 would be either a launch title or released within a fairly short time span after system launch

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Nobody ever officially said GT7 would be a launch title or close to it. Those were always just rumours.

Never said it was official. But Sony did list the GT7 title in their game title listing for earlier console announcements.
And yes it was to an extent a rumor only but most of the community did believe that a GT7 was a strong possible candidate to be a launch title or something not long after time frame wise.
Yes just like a Monday morning QB you can look back now and point out the flawed approach of using that logic now that it has not happened.

But for those that were hoping for it being sooner rather than later acquiring a very short in supply new ps5 to access such a title was not stupid in the least.

The stupidity was actually depending on PD to follow any sort of reasonable time frame as history has proven that is not usually one of their strong suites.
And then believing Sony that the GT7 would be one of their main PS5 titles that took advantage of all the new processing power the system offers as now the title will be released as a watered down version that only requires PS4 level hardware to play.

That backtracking alone the differences can sort of be compared to the differences in playing ACC on PC then playing ACC on the PS4 as to how much they have to nerf the game, its graphics and frame rates and its features and options to be a somewhat playable but less enjoyable on the lesser hardware as compared to the same game without those lower hardware restrictions.

Knowing how PD operates Sony users will probably be lucky to get a new PS5 ONLY GT version that actually takes advantage of all the systems power advantages 4 years or more down the road.

And I had decided last year I was not going to purchase a PS5 and the more the Saga unfolds the more I am happy to be away from the future Sony drama and disappointments that come so often with the platform. Will be the only generation Playstation I have not purchased at or near launch.