GT7 is a weird racing game (compared to others)
- Thread starter Djuvinile
- 144 comments
- 18,857 views
- 549
- Where i'm at
- xmalcolmpowderx
Those chilli races actually have decent AI that dont brake mid apex too.
I had a crack at the Daytona one, and boy it was fun. I only managed second and it felt like proper racing.
Somewhere, PD does have the ability to make decent racing AI. I just wish they'd implement it in more parts of the game.
I had a crack at the Daytona one, and boy it was fun. I only managed second and it felt like proper racing.
Somewhere, PD does have the ability to make decent racing AI. I just wish they'd implement it in more parts of the game.
- 4,552
- Australia
GT1 had qualifying and standing starts. Two events in GT2 had rolling starts, and they were tight like real life. Chasing the rabbit wasnt a GT feature for their actual races until GT5
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- 887
- Space Coast
- Chevy_Heavy
I could be wrong here, but PD has always pushed the limits of the hardware making the game look as great as possible that they may not have had much computing power left to dedicate to standing starts with competent AI. After all they had to link multiple Playstations together to get Sophy to put up a fight against the best drivers. I do believe that eventually we will see the Sophy AI implemented in some form in GT.
They have already proven that with the current AI they can create some challenging racing. As proven by the Human Comedy missions and WTC events. And you can always handicap yourself using a lower pp car to make it more competitive. This was point of the seasonal events whereas you could earn more money by using an underpowered car. I look at the catch the rabbit formula as you're in the late stages of a longer race and you're running out of time to catch the leader. For door-to-door action you have to turn to racing human AI. And as you know that can be a good or bad thing.
They have already proven that with the current AI they can create some challenging racing. As proven by the Human Comedy missions and WTC events. And you can always handicap yourself using a lower pp car to make it more competitive. This was point of the seasonal events whereas you could earn more money by using an underpowered car. I look at the catch the rabbit formula as you're in the late stages of a longer race and you're running out of time to catch the leader. For door-to-door action you have to turn to racing human AI. And as you know that can be a good or bad thing.
- 12,903
- Cambridge
- Moglet85
- Moglet
There have been several times when a rewind feature would have come in useful in GT7 for me. I usually don't get long each day to hop on and play the game and it would save me wasting my time if the AI punt me off near the end of a long race because they seem to be glued to the damn road. It would need to be disabled for licenses, missions etc. though.
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- 60
- Netherlands
I'm just missing part of the immersion some other sims like PC, Assetto or iracing do have.. i know they are the ones who lack graphic quality and have other issues maybe, but having your car in a pit box fiddeling with tuning setup and watching others during a practice or quali session then go out in a right spot to attack the best time f.e. feels completely different to what GT does. Sure rolling starts is nothing new to racing, but it is the way its implemented in this game that does not feel right (and very repetitive). its an en enjoyable game for sure, but it lacks the feeling of real racing imo.
- 291
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
I watched a vid by Gamer Muscle on YT (a sim racer) last night reviewing the latest AMS2 Formula cars update. He said he had been playing GT7 for a while now and went into a small side discussion about the difference between a sim like AMS2 and GT7. He basically said it is night and day. The FFB, the AI, and the immersion.
GT7 is a poor excuse for a racing game imo (outside of Sport mode). It really doesn't do much to capture the environments, thrill, and spirit of racing. It is more like a car collection game unless you want to take it online in Sport mode - but then you are limited mostly to group cars which sort of negates the biggest part of the single player - car collecting. It's a very bizarre game tbh, that doesn't really seem to know what it wants to do.
- 5,083
- Connecticut
- Ridley-X4
There are a lot of ways GT as a whole - let alone GT7 - is quirky and weird, and to be frank, I wouldn’t have it any other way. Not that I’m convinced GT - and in particular, GT7 - can’t be improved at all, but what I’m trying to describe is something broader, like a sense of direction.
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- 291
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
Maybe. I think GT7 oozes so much potential, but it's only been half baked. Design a formidable AI (doesn't have to be perfect, but if every other sim can add AI that has competent race pace, so can you PD!) and then you can make the events into proper races with grid, or close rolling starts. And make them more like race weekend events with practice, quali, and race. That is all they have to do! And suddenly you'd have a proper racing game, one with an unmatched level of vehicle variety and fidelity.
- 889
- bristol
- smokebeer
- FOGSmokebeer
Don't forget what is written on the box of every GT game guys "driving simulator" I've never gotten the impression from Kaz that he wants to make a hardcore racing game the nearest he got was being sporty not racey 
- 3,882
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
It's 100% by choice.
By taking this approach, they can pad out the "race" so that there is something to do for the entire time. Racing is, by nature, an inversely ramped game. The better you get at the game, the easier it becomes, and there is very little that can be done to overcome this and still make the game achievable.
and....
...because of a basic philosophical difference. In many other games, the goal for the AI is to race. The AI is set up to actually race one another, and it's given different levels of capability. There's literally tons of books and articles out there on the topic. This comes at the cost of less predictability.
By setting up a procession, you reduce the number of bugs that might occur, or things that might be considered bugs, like a massive pile up. That has the benefit of being less expensive to test, because you don't need to run endless variations.
For example, imagine if the AI was allowed to actually race for the win at the GR3 Daytona event. There is a pretty good chance that there would be a pile up at the beginning of the race. Not Always, mind you, but it is more likely. Even though that would be fairly realistic, it would be bad press, which means poor sales.
With the SP set up as it is, it's pretty easy to avoid unsightly collisions (between the AI) while at the same time making most people feel like a hero for passing cars under the braking. While the other cars are trying to slot into a preset finishing order, you can rip through the field like a god
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Payouts could a bit better too. 42k for 31 hours is nothing special. Don't forget for magic roulette with another 5k. That must entertain almost everybody!
www.xfire.com
Someone just completed 200 laps on the Nurburgring in 24 hours in Gran Turismo 7
According to the user behind the mind-blowing achievement, they simply had "too much free time."
www.xfire.com
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- 3,882
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
100% agree on this. It's so sad.
I don't know what they did to the dailies, but the race is less intense IMHO. I could live with that if there were more variation, which I keep reiterating. They could have stuck with three (Sport Mode) but add more preset MP races!
They've thrown the entirety of community under the bus in the single minded attempt to get everyone to buy credits. They nickel and dime you for every little thing, and even though the last update helped, it doesn't change the core focus of the game, which is simple ownership. What am I going to do with a prewar car? Ownership in and of itself is a pointless endeavour. Now with car rental, ownership isn't even necessary.
What is the point of this game?
They spent the last three iterations building the community with online, online, and more online, and then instead of keeping that ball rolling with a new break through, they give us car collecting.
...and there isn't even a meta game to it!!!!! It's not like I can use my exclusive car to go to an auction and try to get more money!! I just....look at it, I suppose? Which of course I can do without ever buying the car, so what is the point? I just don't get it.
What's the next track going to be? the lawn at Pebble Beach?
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- 167
- Canada
Gran Turismo definitely has it's quirks, but that's exactly what sets it apart from other games, regardless of it lacking content or being incomplete, or having payout inconsistencies. When I buy a Forza game, I know pretty much what I'm getting. Same with Codemaster's rally offerings. The WRC series is way different than the Dirt series. Each one of these games is different from the other, and so is Gran Turismo. There may be changes within each new release for the above mentioned games, but the general feel is the same. In that regard, GT7 seems to follow suit and and the offline part of the game has the feeling of a Gran Turismo game to me. I've thrown in the towel in regards to online.
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- 59
- Belgium
There's probably a reason why PD called it "the real DRIVING simulator", and NOT "the real RACING simulator".
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
That reason means jack when racing is ultimately what you're doing for 95% of the game, and when it's going to be lumped into the 'racing' genre whether or not Kaz believes it's elevated above it for whatever reason.
- 349
- Wales
Nice post, and pretty much describes how I play GT games too. Though unlike you I can’t honestly say I’ll start again if something untoward happens near the end of a long race - I’ll still finish tbh, money’s hard to come by in 7, though I do always feel the prize is tainted. This is how to play if you’re playing to relax, as I do, rather than to compete or get excited/have ‘fun’.
However, the big problem for me isn’t the general passivity of the AI, they are roadblocks and the only ‘race’ is with the two or three cars at the front, but rather the very specific problem of their loitering on corners and kinks (final chicanes at LM, the top of Panorama, Eau Rouge, and I could go on and on...) which kind of completely ruins the immersion. If PD could (would?) only fix that, I’d be pretty much 99 per cent happy for the way I play. Trying to race totally cleanly in the way you describe is very, very difficult with this loitering AI, unless you’re willing to ‘learn’ very unnatural lines and braking patterns, which would then hugely disadvantage you should you ever switch to Sport mode or race the same tracks on different sims.
It’s this one thing which ruins the racing aspect of 7 for me and what’s really frustrating is I’m sure PD could fix it in an afternoon.
- 3,882
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Except that there's no emphasis on driving either, and what is this difference supposed to mean? They provide race tracks, not streets. The license tests are not about parallel parking. The tests are about racing, and there's race tracks, and finishing positions, and racing helmets, racing suits, pit lanes, etc., etc., so "driving" or "racing" is a semantic argument.
The single player has not seen any innovation, ever. Actually, since B spec is gone, it's been diminished. I never finished the GT6 campaign, I barely played the GTS campaign. I only play the GT7 campaign because I have to, which should not be the main reason.
2008 - Prologue - They introduce online
2010 - GT5 - Lobbies (with a lot of features)
2013 - GT6 - more lobbies, and "quick race" (the precursor to Sport Mode) and Online Time trials
2017 - Sport - Sport Mode and the GTWS
2022 - GT7 - Buy credits and collect cars that you'll never drive, IF and WHEN they are made available to you.
Pandemic not withstanding, they spent 5 years, on the heals of almost a decade of online innovation, and they give us .... car collecting????
This game is earning it's user metacritic score.
- 100
- United Kingdom
GT has to appeal to everyone from total newbies to the very experienced. PD have realised that newbies don't want to qualify before the race starts - they just want to race straight away. Newbies also want the thrill of overtaking and they want to see the other cool cars in the race.
Imagine qualifying on an empty track and then starting the race from the front and hardly seeing another car. It might be realistic but is it fun? People complained that F1 was boring when that was how Lewis Hamilton was winning race after race.
So PD tries to please everyone. For the newbies the focus is on more entertainment/ less realism with rolling starts, lots of overtaking and no qualifying. For the more experienced, there's multiplayer mode with a focus on realism with grid starts and qualifying.
And it probably can't be any other way if PD wants to appeal to as many people as possible.
Imagine qualifying on an empty track and then starting the race from the front and hardly seeing another car. It might be realistic but is it fun? People complained that F1 was boring when that was how Lewis Hamilton was winning race after race.
So PD tries to please everyone. For the newbies the focus is on more entertainment/ less realism with rolling starts, lots of overtaking and no qualifying. For the more experienced, there's multiplayer mode with a focus on realism with grid starts and qualifying.
And it probably can't be any other way if PD wants to appeal to as many people as possible.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
And subsequently make only Sport mode worthwhile on the multiplayer side, so for those that don't feel like dealing with BOP factoring in the majority of the races instead of general skill, what are you left with? A lobby system rife with connection and host problems that is intent on cutting down private leagues at the knees?
It's like from different world. I have a war few hundred kilometers from here. Putin wants nuclear or thermonuclear war if everything will be bad. Prices of oil or gas goes up which means everything goes up.
And some crazy Japanese guy wants me to grind for some car I already paid for? What's he on? Come on, bro...
Give me my cars!
And some crazy Japanese guy wants me to grind for some car I already paid for? What's he on? Come on, bro...
Give me my cars!
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- 1,346
- Brazil
Living up to the teachings professor Wittgenstein. I like that. Language is everything.
- 3,882
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
This game has been built upon the backs of the faithful, not the backs of casual players.
Is it bad that some of the game can be beaten by a 10 year old? No, not at all, but there are plenty of mechanisms in the game to adjust itself to more advanced players.
It's not that much trouble to check my DR and then set the AI to a higher difficulty. There isn't much trouble in carrying over my garage, since they carried over my liveries. You want to make some people go buy credits, fine, it's crappy for them, but why punish everyone?
And how about a place to play with the cars? How hard is it to have 3-5 events per track? Why do some tracks have a ton of events, while others have 1.
I just....I'm offended by this game. That's what I can say. I am offended by it. It is a poor excuse of an effort from a team that had 5 years to put it together....5 years, with mostly the same art, and mostly the same code. 5 years spent on widebodies (and it's about 10 years late) and some prewar cars. Given what they had to work with, literally 1 guy, in an office by himself, could have pulled this off in 5 years, even with the pandemic.
Is it bad that some of the game can be beaten by a 10 year old? No, not at all, but there are plenty of mechanisms in the game to adjust itself to more advanced players.
It's not that much trouble to check my DR and then set the AI to a higher difficulty. There isn't much trouble in carrying over my garage, since they carried over my liveries. You want to make some people go buy credits, fine, it's crappy for them, but why punish everyone?
And how about a place to play with the cars? How hard is it to have 3-5 events per track? Why do some tracks have a ton of events, while others have 1.
I just....I'm offended by this game. That's what I can say. I am offended by it. It is a poor excuse of an effort from a team that had 5 years to put it together....5 years, with mostly the same art, and mostly the same code. 5 years spent on widebodies (and it's about 10 years late) and some prewar cars. Given what they had to work with, literally 1 guy, in an office by himself, could have pulled this off in 5 years, even with the pandemic.
- 291
- New Zealand
- Novice_Senior
Not sure I agree. I've played a lot of proper racing games over the years and never realy had to deal with aforementioned pile ups that often at all. It might happen, but people expect the occasional oddity. I agree it's probably a lot easier to code & test the dumb procession AI they have, but that's no excuse imo.
And then added license tests, circuit experience, and a magazine that goes over racing technique? Game clearly wants to encourage racing properly.
You don't need to appeal to noobies at the expense of others though. Simply have a "skip qualifying" option. Also, qualifying doesn't have to be done alone. In many cases the other drivers are on track too. You say the more experienced can go online, but that's not a solution. The online environment is not something that can be easily controlled and so the experience becomes wildly less consistent (not to mention, you have to play the single player to even access multiplayer and all the other content anyway, and the rewards are abysmal).
- 9,983
- Denmark
Agreed, although I don’t necessarily understand why PD went down this path in the first place. They go through all the trouble of licensing real cars and circuits only to impose some quirky vision that feels more like a compromise than something unique.Don't forget what is written on the box of every GT game guys "driving simulator" I've never gotten the impression from Kaz that he wants to make a hardcore racing game the nearest he got was being sporty not racey
- 13,915
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Maybe they should make some driving events instead of racing events then. I'd be on board for a nice drive down a country road or maybe exploring a village. PC2 has some nice coastal road "tracks" that are great for cruising.
What we've got is a bunch of race tracks and events where the criteria to clear them is getting ahead of the other cars. That's racing.
Polyphony can write whatever they want on the box, but it's a racing simulation. There is a few games that would be well described as driving simulators, but Gran Turismo is not one of them.
- 1,539
- Indonesia
Because PD is an incompetent garbage developer who can't create even passable AI and cover up their lacking ability for that in chase the rabbit crap they call "race" so that it would be "HaRd". That ain't a race but a time trial with moving chicanes, yet Poly-phony Digital had the gall to call them races.
Sophy is useless crap that would be only wasted on insignificant part of the game like small challenges (such as LH Challenge) because they don't know what makes a good addition as a company out of touch with reality.
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