GT7 & PSVR2

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Do you guys get tracking issues when setting in the cockpit?
kireth explained it well in his videos.
You can sit absolutely still and the whole view will shift up down left and right on its own… causing motion sickness.

I tried 3 different VR head sets and they all had the same issue.

Try it tonight. Sit in any car. Don’t drive. Sit and look forward. They turn your head to either side slowly …… stop….. look down…. Keep your head still….. does your screen just start shifting around on its own?
 
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Do you guys get tracking issues when setting in the cockpit still?
kireth explained it well in his videos.
You can sit absolutely still and the whole view will shift up down left and right on its own… causing motion sickness.

I tried 3 different VR head sets and they all had the same issue.

Try it night. Sit in any car. Don’t drive. Sit and look forward. They turn your head to either side slowly …… stop….. look down…. Keep your head still….. does your screen just start shifting around on its own?
I've had this happen most often in the VR showroom but never happens when I'm driving, not sure why it happens when sitting still at all.
 
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Same here. I use the screen tracking facility too.
I've only seen this happen when stationary and I lean forward or look around inside the car. I don't think it's happening while racing, I no longer get sick at all but a tracking glitch usually creates an instant 'off balance' brain response which is very noticeable. It seems better than it used to be but still happens occasionally. I find the tracking, whilst racing at least, to be almost if not as accurate as Vive Pro, which is impressive for inside out tracking tech, but I guess it will vary depending on your surroundings and lighting etc in the room.
 
You get the same amount of wobble/ view shifting also during racing. The difference being that during racing the car actually shakes, bumps an jumps around thus the tracking imprecisions are not as noticeable in contrary to just sitting still in the car in the VR showroom. I hope Sony will release an updated tracking algorithm in the future as some users reported that Quest2 does not have the same issues under similar lightning conditions in the same room.

Actually can be tested very easily: just push the brakes and stop the car during a race and look around the cockpit, you'll start noticing the wobble when the car is completely still.
 
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Oh my god that is immense. The only place it would fit is in my garden. I'd have strangers climbing over the wall
The really, really stoopid thing about this motion rig and others like it with a static screen, is that the mind can only be properly tricked if the screen moves with the rig. Take commercial flight simulators, for example: you sit inside a cockpit and everything is 100% self-contained with no outside reference whatsoever. I landed a flight-sim Hercules at Kai Tak Airport once, and the experience was sublimely real. And this is the great thing about VR - if you combine VR with a 360 motion rig you're going to get an awesome experience up to 1G 😎
 
My view can get ruined at the start of a race when GT7 does its own forced calibration a few seconds before race starts. If I am facing off centre or maybe even eyes not straight ahead the view may go completely off. But It doesnt keep moving around like you mention.
When I get the 3 2 1 countdown I make sure I am staring dead ahead.
 
Same here, you just have to ensure that you're looking straight forward before you start, but it's easy to quickly recalibrate before the auto-drive finishes.

I'm also not seeing any tracking issue during racing. I tested this on a very long straight, making head movements and watching the cockpit edge like a hawk for reference, but I saw no tracking deviations.
 
Just hit start to recalibrate.

In fact - do that every time before a race starts while leaning slightly forward. It´ll fix the wrong default seating position for you.
 
I've only ever seen the tracking shuffle in the VR showroom as well.

Even in the menus, the virtual screen you see is still positioned based on your head tracking, and I don't notice that twitching about either.

As @miroshi says though, easy to test by stopping out on track and seeing what happens.
 
I've just moved onto the Super License and discovered the SF car in Test S7 at Laguna Seca (which I know well from GT6) ...what a buzz man! I don't think I'll be getting a gold any time this week, but Geez, the immersion of looking through the front wheels in VR, holding a formula steering wheel driven by 8Nm is totally unreal! I've also discovered the limited play-space in the SF cockpit that everyone keeps going on about ...maybe I need to get a wraparound headrest to keep me still. My business is going to go to pot if I keep taking three-hour lunch breaks like this, but what a buzz! GT7 in VR; the gift that keeps on giving 🤩
 
Kireth, you’ve clearly done some 2-stroke karting (Club 100 at Three Sisters Circuit by the looks of it), and if you’ve raced in any enduros you'll know that the only data feedback you get is from your team-mate on the pit-board (unless Club 100 have Alpharnos fitted now) …which is more than enough to race with (position, time behind and time in front).

You know if your tyres are too cold because you lose grip; you know if your tyres are too hot because you lose grip; and it should be blindingly obvious which is which provided they’ve been set up correctly because you’ll either be driving too smoothly and cooling the tyres, or too aggressively and cooking them. Knowing the difference comes with experience and I’m guessing that the same could be true for sim racing. If you ever get to O/D karting you’ll be in charge of your own pressures and then you’ll really start to fine-tune your understanding and driving style, because those skills can be the difference between a podium or being lapped. Again, I’m guessing the same is true for proper sim racing ..?

As for changing gear, I have never understood the problem with not being able to go by the sound of the engine. I haven’t got to the SF cars in GT7 yet, but I had no problems with the F1 cars in GT6. Is it really that difficult to go by the sound of the engine?

Fuel, yes, you need to know that one, but most cars have that on their VR dash. I’m probably speaking out of my newbie-to-GT7 butt here, but I want total immersion and 100% simulation when racing in VR. Wouldn’t it be the absolute dog's danglies if as well as GT7 having marshals waving flags and pit crews changing your tyres, that they also have a pit-crew guy showing you the important information on a pit board every time you go past your garage! It could be a bit tricky to see with the current VR2, so as well as hanging the board out, the game could perhaps reproduce the board enlarged in a top corner of the VR display for a few seconds so that you can take it in. Maybe they could add config options regarding the size, position and length of display time for the repeated pit board. Now that would be just like real racing, but with assistance to compensate for the lack of 4k clarity.

I know that some games have a crew-chief giving radio messages, but IRL you always have a pit board too, in case the radios fail. In fact I am far from alone in ditching radios as a bad idea because they can distract you at crucial moments, they can be mis-heard, they can go wrong, they can pick up the local taxi firm (I kid you not), and generally with experience many drivers tend to prefer a well managed pit board system and hand signals. So come on PD: how about pit boards for us VR immersion fans 🤔 😎 🏁
I've raced endurance karting with Alfano's which I'd say is basically a requirement!

Also unfortunately most cars don't have fuel on the dash
 
I've raced endurance karting with Alfano's which I'd say is basically a requirement!
We'll definitely have to agree to disagree on that one, lest we stray off topic.
Also unfortunately most cars don't have fuel on the dash
Oh, fair enough Then. But with regards to race positions and timings, the more I ponder on the three-second 'pit board' idea, the more I think it would be a good and immersive feature, especially for VR users. I drove an SF car today and found it very off-putting that the MFD was positioned right in my view line. As you say, the whole race data issue needs a rethink for VR drivers.
 
Does anyone use the car engine distance(mileage) display to work out what lap you are on?
I thought it might work if you have a planned pitstop on a certain lap and you work out what the miles will say when its time to pit. Obviously worked out before the race not trying the maths in real time.
 
Does anyone use the car engine distance(mileage) display to work out what lap you are on?
I thought it might work if you have a planned pitstop on a certain lap and you work out what the miles will say when its time to pit. Obviously worked out before the race not trying the maths in real time.
Honestly that's not a bad idea, didn't even think of that. Though, I've really been hoping PD would add a toggle UI button by now, it seems like a no brainer for VR instead of having to pause to toggle it.
 
Its nice the SF23 has a lap counter on the wheel. That would be useful in a pitstop race.
Hows does a real SF23 driver know how much overtake power is left?
 
I enjoy racing online with no HUD in VR and only enable the MFD in races where I need it. I don't miss any of that extra info you get on a flat screen and I feel that doesn't belong in VR. I get more immersed and actually feel less pressure when I'm not seeing stuff like the full standings or the time differences at all times. I'm able to focus more on the actual racing and that makes me faster and more consistent. I see no harm in it being optional though.
 
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I think I'd like a separate button to bring up the hud and hide it at will during the race. And then maybe options to keep certain minimal info on hud even when you hide it. I wouldn't want a giant leaderboard graphic always hovering to the left, that's for sure, that would probably wreck the experience. Ability to glance at hud down the straights real quick or when needed, and then enjoy the rest of the lap hud free would be ideal for me.
 
I enjoy racing online with no HUD in VR and only enable the MFD in races where I need it. I don't miss any of that extra info you get on a flat screen and I feel that doesn't belong in VR. I get more immersed and actually feel less pressure when I'm not seeing stuff like the full standings or the time differences at all times. I'm able to focus more on the actual racing and that makes me faster and more consistent. I see no harm in it being optional though.
This is the point/opinion I have been trying to make, that 'most' of the extra data, one can do without. It’s like gaps behind and in front: in real racing this is mainly useful to know for if it’s worth the risk of pushing the engine or tyres (or driver's skills) extra hard in order to protect a finishing position that might otherwise be under threat, or to catch another position that might otherwise be uncatchable, or not. In those circumstances the gaps are useful to know but that is only in long enduros and IRL can be replaced by a simple hand signal from the team manager of 'push' or 'stay steady' or 'focus'. This was my point to Kireth about Alphanos (data dash units for enduro karts) being quite unnecessary and in fact, as you have eluded to here: distracting.

I guess the amount and type of race data that each GT7 VR driver would want should ideally be much more easily configurable within the game, but again, a simple pit board with the key information on it (e.g. next position is 1.4 seconds behind and increasing), and perhaps a team managers suggestion on it (which should be easy to extrapolate from the game metrics, especially for things like low fuel), that flashes up when passing the pits, would be awesome. A good team manager (for enduros, not sprints) can so easily make or break a race result, so let's see the GT7 AI potential try to recreate this please 😎

Bottom line: I totally agree with your findings about being able to better focus on every corner of every lap without distractions, djolliea, and it is an important component of racing IRL (for enduros).
 
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This is the point/opinion I have been trying to make, that 'most' of the extra data, one can do without. It’s like gaps behind and in front: in real racing this is mainly useful to know for if it’s worth the risk of pushing the engine or tyres (or driver's skills) extra hard in order to protect a finishing position that might otherwise be under threat, or to catch another position that might otherwise be uncatchable, or not. In those circumstances the gaps are useful to know but that is only in long enduros and IRL can be replaced by a simple hand signal from the team manager of 'push' or 'stay steady' or 'focus'. This was my point to Kireth about Alphanos (data dash units for enduro karts) being quite unnecessary and in fact, as you have eluded to here: distracting.

I guess the amount and type of race data that each GT7 VR driver would want should ideally be much more easily configurable within the game, but again, a simple pit board with the key information on it (e.g. next position is 1.4 seconds behind and increasing), and perhaps a team managers suggestion on it (which should be easy to extrapolate from the game metrics, especially for things like low fuel), that flashes up when passing the pits, would be awesome. A good team manager (for enduros, not sprints) can so easily make or break a race result, so let's see the GT7 AI potential try to recreate this please 😎

Bottom line: I totally agree with your findings about being able to better focus on every corner of every lap without distractions, djolliea, and it is an important component of racing IRL (for enduros).
Exactly. I've been able to keep my A+ driving rating in VR without the data and would encourage people not to think of this as a disadvantage.
 
First of all thanks for the feedback!
Psvr2 is just fantastic and i feel more natural to correct mistakes.
Astro has a point here!
My faster laps was always with the bumper view but sometimes i use to race with no hud and the interior view...
Maybe this is the problem i need more training with the psvr2 interior view..
Guys with what view you was faster before psvr2?
I used bumper cam before vr. Only used cockpit when racing ai as I was much slower. I'm slightly faster than before but way more consistent.
 
Anyone noticed the lack of Yellow and Blue flag warning indicators on VR?
Jumped on to do a couple of quick VR races and in one of the races I picked up a 4 second penalty for ignoring a Yellow flag. At the time I was shocked to find I got the penalty as I couldn’t work out how and why I got this. Looking at the replay i didn’t notice a car was off the track, and also I didn’t notice that I did overtake a car.
Next race I tried to replicate the yellow flag issue and when I had a yellow flag situation, they is no indication on the display that yellow flag are out. The only warnings you get are the track side Marshalls waving flags which at time are hard to see.
I hope in the next update they address this issue. Either by adding an HUD overlay warning, or better still in the race cars, make the dashboard display change or show a warning.
 
Do you guys get tracking issues when setting in the cockpit?
kireth explained it well in his videos.
You can sit absolutely still and the whole view will shift up down left and right on its own… causing motion sickness.

I tried 3 different VR head sets and they all had the same issue.

Try it tonight. Sit in any car. Don’t drive. Sit and look forward. They turn your head to either side slowly …… stop….. look down…. Keep your head still….. does your screen just start shifting around on its own?
Did you try 3 different PSVR2 headsets?
 
Having just completed the final Super Licence exam with all data displays off - taking the Porsche 917 around a drying Spa-Francorchamps - I was yet again blown away by the awesomely thrilling sense of total immersion. I found it tricky to make sure I wasn't in first gear instead of second on some of the tight wet bends (or second instead of third), but I otherwise didn't need to know laps or gaps. By completing this most tricky of tests within just a few goes, I also satisfied myself that Fanatec's March 2022 recommended settings for the GT DD Pro wheelbase are still good to go (except for NFR to 5, as suggested in their post) despite all the GT7 upgrades, but that's another story (and a very long thread on the Fanatec forum).

Anyway, I've been further pondering on the VR immersion dilemma and although I have not yet progressed to races with tyre wear and fuel etc, I can see that tightly-fought enduros with no race data and dash-only car data will be almost too challenging to consider ...although I admire those of you trying to do so in the name of purity and immersion. So for me at the moment, I intend to race sans-data for everything I can at this time in my game progression, listening to the engine for gear numbers and changes, and using observation to count cars and laps to ascertain my position and progress. It is doable and takes me back to my non-team karting days.

Ideally PD will introduce an MFD toggle that takes the place of the 'view' toggle for VR players - we shall have to wait and see. I did look to see if there was already one in the button-mapping screen but alas not 🙁

In the meantime I've been thinking about ways to use the limited GT7 telemetry data picked up by SimHub, to map what I can to haptics or sounds, and realised that although I'm still waiting for my transducers to arrive, it'll probably be too messy to mix haptic prompts for laps or gears with in-game haptic data. So then I thought about sounds. Could I wear an earpiece (feed from SimHub) under my headset without too much trouble? Or could I mix the signal from a SimHub sound channel with the game's headset feed with a simple impedance matching circuit? Rolling back my brain to my electronics engineering days, this is doable in principle.

So then I wondered if SimHub's mapping functions and available game telemetry metrics would allow me to trigger sound events for, say, a change of laps remaining e.g. in pseudo-code: if [event] LapsRemaining decreases, then play sound file {LapsRemaing}.wav i.e. "Four laps remaining". This could also be done for gear changes although maybe just for gears one and two to keep the noise down. So I googled to see what might be done in SimHub and found this > https://www.simhubdash.com/community-2/simhub-support/how-to-use-sounds/ e.g.

Code:
[ExportEvent]
name='Blinker'
trigger=[TurnIndicatorLeft]>0 || [TurnIndicatorRight]>0

So yes, that would be doable. I then wondered if anyone else has done this and lo and behold I found that it has been done for iRacing by RomainRob...


This is mighty impressive and would be ideal for GT7 VR, but (a) the GT7 telemetry data is very limited, and (b) we might find that if GT7 with PSVR2 proves to be the commercial game-changer that we have found it to be at a personal level, that PD will start to address some of our requests. In the meantime, I've never coded anything Microsoft related before, and if I don't turn my attention back to my business for a while, I'll have no business to pay for Playstation and sim-rig equipment! If anyone else fancies having a look at introducing sound-prompts into the VR experience, I'd be happy to assist ...or is it all too much to worry about at the moment 🤔

Edit - Question: It would seem that two-into-one headset mixers are cheap and easy to get hold of, but not for TRRS jacks without more channels and lots of splitter cables. So when you guys race online, do you use mics; do you chat to each other whilst racing?
 
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Do the SF23 cars have an invisible halo strut when driving in VR, like the SF19 cars do?

In the VR showroom the strut is visible in both cars. I understand why PD make it invisible for flatscreen use, but it’d be great to at least have the option for it to be visible in VR.

(I have a mate who enjoys F1 who is yet to try my rig in VR, and I’d like to blow him away with immersion, in the hope he’ll buy a similar setup.😉)
 
I have a mate who enjoys F1 who is yet to try my rig in VR, and I’d like to blow him away with immersion, in the hope he’ll buy a similar setup.😉
I too am finding myself trying to prompt friends into taking up sim racing again for the PSVR2 experience. The trouble is, to get the 'complete' experience, IMHO, one needs a proper cockpit with a proper seat, a good DD wheel and reasonably good pedals. And that lot, on top of a PS5 and PSVR2, is not exactly cheap! Having just been through the process of convincing myself that it’s money well spent (because I’m a tight git when it comes to spending cash on myself), I point out that GT7 in VR is so good that I’d do it again at twice the price if I had to, which I probably would, I’m getting responses such as: "Having wasted half my life getting 100% in GT6, I told myself: never again!”, and: "If I spent that much on a rig in the lounge, a divorce would be on the cards within weeks!"

A second issue is that if you sit someone down into your rig for a demo, they probably aren’t in their ideal driving position (WRT immersion), their brain will take more than the time it takes to give a demo to get used to the motion queasiness, their eyes will not have got used to a fixed focal distance of two metres (so their brain will automatically de-focus their view making it blurry), their eyes will not have got used to moving the head slightly to overcome the frenzel lens limitations (causing blurriness at the edges), and generally speaking, although they might marvel at the few times their brain does momentarily fit all the pieces of the jigsaw together well, they are not going to properly 'get it' in one demo alone. As we all know, it takes more than a day or two to get properly acclimatised to our new worlds as virtual racing drivers.

And this, I think, is part of the problem Sony is going to have getting more traction for GT7 in VR: it will struggle to promote the concept by traditional marketing techniques alone. It needs the converted (those of us who 'get it') to do the converting for them. And given the expense and commitment of time and enthusiasm required to go 'all in', I wonder if my new hobby will ever get enough traction to go mainstream enough to warrant Sony giving it more development resources. Thoughts?
 
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