GTDesigned: A Community Vision GT Project

[R5]

This thread can easily be locked, and in my opinion should be, when the new thread is made. Keeping this one open would lead to this problem:

Then trawling the thread doesn't help, as people are doing all sorts of different things at once with a lack of order and direction, and people then ask where we are, only to be given a lot of different (and sometimes contradicting) info.

Which is pretty much the main issue with this thread and has been for ages. More specifically this:

people are doing all sorts of different things at once with a lack of order and direction

So we either need a mos to declarer the thread down to what we do need, or start another and lock this one to fix that.

 

[wvmgmidget]

A new thread wouldn't change much; we would just be repeating the same cycle over again because we still lack approval from PD and we cannot draw a sizable crowd without it even with full support of the GTPlanet staff. Plus even if this thread was locked it would still exist.

 

[R5]

A new thread wouldn't change much; we would just be repeating the same cycle over again because we still lack approval from PD and we cannot draw a sizable crowd without it even with full support of the GTPlanet staff. Plus even if this thread was locked it would still exist.

A new thread would help because we would be able to give a clearer direction to newcomers, and there would be less clutter (unless we ask a mod to remove it from this thread which would be a time consuming task) it would also allow for us to properly start over.

We would get a decent crowd if the staff helped us out, especially with a news article on it (this seems unlikely though) asking for people to help out with the poll or the design or anything else. A news article called "We want you to help with the GTP Vision GT" would definitely catch the eye (hell, it could be the Facebook/Twitter caption for the community spotlight feature if it gets in there)

This thread would be locked, so it existing wouldn't even matter.

 

[eran0004]

Everyone can't work on the same car because that would be design by committee and it would end up with a product representing some kind of average that nobody is happy with.

It's better to split up in smaller teams, each making their own sharp and focused concepts and then meet up again to make the selection.

What we need, then, is not a design process. What we need is a competition. It's then up to each individual team to come up with their own design process.

That's the only way I can see this working.

 

[R5]

Everyone can't work on the same car because that would be design by committee and it would end up with a product representing some kind of average that nobody is happy with.

It's better to split up in smaller teams, each making their own sharp and focused concepts and then meet up again to make the selection.

What we need, then, is not a design process. What we need is a competition. It's then up to each individual team to come up with their own design process.

That's the only way I can see this working.

That's what we did only we set a brief (decided by a poll) and let individuals work with that brief. The best design was then chosen by another poll and people seemed very happy with both poll results.

 

[eran0004]

That's what we did only we set a brief (decided by a poll) and let individuals work with that brief. The best design was then chosen by another poll and people seemed very happy with both poll results.

We voted on a sketch, not a final concept. We then had to shoe-horn the sketch into the mold set by the previous polls, leaving almost nothing intact from the sketch apart from a few design cues. It was design by committee.

 

[R5]

We voted on a sketch, not a final concept.

The sketch was to be the final concept.

We then had to shoe-horn the sketch into the mold set

Which we wouldn't have to do if any designs (this is a biggie by the way, so take note) not fitting the brief were simply excluded.

leaving almost nothing intact from the sketch apart from a few design cues.

See above. If people designed to the poll we wouldn't need to modify the sketches too much.

It was design by committee.

And what you're proposing is

It's better to split up in smaller teams, each making their own sharp and focused concepts and then meet up again to make the selection.

What we need, then, is not a design process. What we need is a competition. It's then up to each individual team to come up with their own design process.

Several teams working on several concepts, which does sorta negate the community part of the project, as we could end up with the shiniest of 7 turds rather than something we could be proud of. We don't need to wipe the voting system clean and start fresh, but just be more thorough with the one we had. Excluding entries that don't fit the poll would be a huge step to not having to modify base sketches.

 

[eran0004]

The sketch was to be the final concept.

Indeed, was to be. The road from sketch to final concept is the design process.

Which we wouldn't have to do if any designs (this is a biggie by the way, so take note) not fitting the brief were simply excluded.

And we wouldn't have had to exclude any designs if we had an open competition without a brief set by polls disconnected from each other. It's like a baking a cake and only selecting the collective's average favourite ingredients without any thought on wether or not they make a good combination. The brief itself is an example of design by committee.

And what you're proposing is

Several teams working on several concepts, which does sorta negate the community part of the project, as we could end up with the shiniest of 7 turds rather than something we could be proud of. We don't need to wipe the voting system clean and start fresh, but just be more thorough with the one we had. Excluding entries that don't fit the poll would be a huge step to not having to modify base sketches.

It doesn't negate the community part of it because anyone in the community can enter the competition and vote on the entries. If the best the community can come up with is a turd then that's the best we can do. It's not going to be a better turd just because we'll all try to make it together, it'd just be a patchwork of turds without a clear focus and purpose.

Just look at the poll results we have already:

2 stroke, V4 hybrid engine with an 8-speed sequential gearbox. Seriously? It doesn't make any sense. Make a poll of different complete drivetrain options and see how many would vote on that option.

 

[R5]

And we wouldn't have had to exclude any designs if we had an open competition without a brief set by polls disconnected from each other. It's like a baking a cake and only selecting the collective's average favourite ingredients without any thought on wether or not they make a good combination. The brief itself is an example of design by committee.

Getting rid of a brief will also get rid of the community aspect of this process.

It doesn't negate the community part of it because anyone in the community can enter the competition and vote on the entries.

So we have many different committees aimlessly doodling then? Ok whatever.

the best the community can come up with is a turd then that's the best we can do. It's not going to be a better turd just because we'll all try to make it together, it'd just be a patchwork of turds without a clear focus and purpose.

Going without a brief will make it, to quote

it'd just be a patchwork of turds without a clear focus and purpose.

Whereas designing to a community (oh there's that word again, it's quite important) poll means more people are designing what the community wants rather than what they want.

Crucial for a community based project, no?

Just look at the poll results we have already:

2 stroke, V4 hybrid engine with an 8-speed sequential gearbox. Seriously? It doesn't make any sense. Make a poll of different complete drivetrain options and see how many would vote on that option.

That's what the people want, so why exclude it because it doesn't make sense to one person (you) even though many more people voted on it knowing the previous poll results and thought it through.

To make my case, here's an example I can remember prominently.

A twin engined Lancia Stratos replica with 1500 bhp, that didn't take into account any part of the poll (size, engine, gearbox etc.) now you look me in the eye and tell me that makes sense.

 

[eran0004]

Getting rid of a brief will also get rid of the community aspect of this process.

No it doesn't, as I've already explained.

So we have many different committees aimlessly doodling then? Ok whatever.

An aimless concept is not going to get any votes, so although people can do whatever they want to it won't be popular. A focused concept will get more votes.

Going without a brief will make it, to quote

No it will not. Certainly not when the brief itself is a patchwork.

Whereas designing to a community (oh there's that word again, it's quite important) poll means more people are designing what the community wants rather than what they want.

Crucial for a community based project, no?

The community may want choccolate. They may want sugar. They may want Coca-Cola. They may want jam. But do they want it all together in a single product? Nobody asked them.

That's what the people want, so why exclude it because it doesn't make sense to one person (you) even though many more people voted on it knowing the previous poll results and thought it through.

Each component won its own poll, that's all there is to it. A car isn't its components, it's the combination of components that's important. Nobody asked the community about the combination.

To make my case, here's an example I can remember prominently.

A twin engined Lancia Stratos replica with 1500 bhp, that didn't take into account any part of the poll (size, engine, gearbox etc.) now you look me in the eye and tell me that makes sense.

What has that got to do with anything? A lunatic concept that didn't follow the brief is not proof that the brief was any good.

 

[R5]

No it doesn't, as I've already explained.

Teams, of how many people? How would you regulate it so only 1 person isn't actually the only one doing anything? Why couldn't teams enter the current poll process? At what point do these Teams just become mini-committees?

An aimless concept is not going to get any votes, so although people can do whatever they want to it won't be popular. A focused concept will get more votes.

And you can assure that it won't, right? No. You can't. And you can assure people won't just vote for a nonsensical concept based on looks alone too? Wow can you also give me next weeks lottery numbers?

No it will not. Certainly not when the brief itself is a patchwork.

But as long as people have a little common sense, it will not be a patchwork.

The community may want choccolate. They may want sugar. They may want Coca-Cola. They may want jam. But do they want it all together in a single product? Nobody asked them.

I know it's a metaphor, but sugar is in both. Anyway, the public gets what they want through a poll more effectively because they have a say in it more than they would having to select from 7 designs. Oh and by the way... Deriding poll results as patchwork contradicts your metaphor's meaning. You're saying we should give the public what they want, but saying that the poll result was nonsensical. Even though that's what they wanted.

Each component won its own poll, that's all there is to it. A car isn't its components, it's the combination of components that's important. Nobody asked the community about the combination.

Yes they did. The polls were done 1 by 1 which means someone with common sense would look at other results and see how it all fits together. There's also a lot to be said for a support network for LosCules24SFA when it comes to these polls, but I guess that's another point.

What has that got to do with anything? A lunatic concept that didn't follow the brief is not proof that the brief was any good.

It is proof that we do need a brief. Every designer needs a brief to do a good design which is realistic. Giving free reign will likely lead to many more nonsensical concept cars like the Stratos thing mentioned above.

anyway, about the support network. It's clear LosCules does need assistance running this project (this isn't a personal attack on him, it's to aid the project) More specifically, things like the poll and updating the first post.

I think we need to elect people (more than 1) to help him with these, in order to keep the current polling system as orderly as possible (it would also mean these cars aren't "patchwork" as poll assistants can think of relevant ideas to the last and all that jazz) and helping with the formatting of the first post will make information easier to find. I mean, LosCules has done a good job so far, but we do need to help him with certain things.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

Ok after some careful thoughts, i decided to start fresh this project starting now and the first i'm going to do is start a fresh poll for our car spec (at least that will be our main objective till we get . But it will be Different from the original one, here's some of the changes i thought of:

First, instead of making all car parts choice separate we're goint to do a combine options of powertrain. for example:

A. 90 degree V8 - Four Stroke - Turbocharged
B. --------

(angle, cylinder configurations, number of cylinders, stoke cycles, aspiration, all tied into one options) Cause well.. honestly we're a bit struggling with our current Powertrain Configuration

-Also finding a secure polling system that will not allow people to multivotes

-Have at least 2 People to monitor and watch the polling system

And finally distribute the poll link to other community on Facebook, maybe another forum, and also please ask your friends to take part in the polling. This would help us to get as much samples as possible of what we, the community and fans really wanted as a VGT

Start a new thread specifically for storing all ideas, sketches, and research THAT BASED on the result of the poll while keeping the main discussion here.

And, IF possible get our project to the community spotlight news

Well that's what we can do till we get an official word from PD or SCEA (but who knows we'll might get a new phase idea)

I'm open for every input, ideas, and critics, it would be very helpful if you please.

 

[WhiterunGuard]

Oh boy, time to see where this goes. Can only end badly. /pessimist.

 

[wvmgmidget]

Ok after some careful thoughts, i decided to start fresh this project starting now and the first i'm going to do is start a fresh poll for our car spec (at least that will be our main objective till we get . But it will be Different from the original one, here's some of the changes i thought of:

First, instead of making all car parts choice separate we're goint to do a combine options of powertrain. for example:

A. 90 degree V8 - Four Stroke - Turbocharged
B. --------

(angle, cylinder configurations, number of cylinders, stoke cycles, aspiration, all tied into one options) Cause well.. honestly we're a bit struggling with our current Powertrain Configuration

-Also finding a secure polling system that will not allow people to multivotes

-Have at least 2 People to monitor and watch the polling system

And finally distribute the poll link to other community on Facebook, maybe another forum, and also please ask your friends to take part in the polling. This would help us to get as much samples as possible of what we, the community and fans really wanted as a VGT

Start a new thread specifically for storing all ideas, sketches, and research THAT BASED on the result of the poll while keeping the main discussion here.

And, IF possible get our project to the community spotlight news

Well that's what we can do till we get an official word from PD or SCEA (but who knows we'll might get a new phase idea)

I'm open for every input, ideas, and critics, it would be very helpful if you please.

It's a good idea but we need at least the support of the GTPlanet staff in order to draw a crowd. Otherwise we would end up with the same result

 

[Grandea GTR]

It's a good idea but we need at least the support of the GTPlanet staff in order to draw a crowd. Otherwise we would end up with the same result

We need a larger sample, practically.

 

[lGNAl]

I think we should do what we did in the first place.
Make a poll.
But this poll must be bigger, more detailed (as in, more options)
and most importantly more widespread, the poll should be shared around the world,
but publicly visible on the main page of GTPlanet.
And when we get the official "green light", we can ask the PD to put the link of the poll
on the GT website or even in the game.To get as many people as possible.

^^ Best idea.

Make a poll for each aspect of the car. Of course each latter pole will be based on the previous one. For example, there's a pole for engine cylinders. 4, 6 or 8. When number of cylinders voted for. We move on to size, how many liters? Then type. And so on.

Yes it will be long and tedious as it should be. This isn't leggo.

 

[iName]

I'm up for a round 2 of this thing, the idea is just too good to pass up. We know what went wrong, all we have to do is prevent it. The poll mentioned earlier is the best idea. Make it super detailed, no sketches until the foundation is settled (engine, drivetrain, layout, etc). Most people jumped the gun and went for a V12 car sketch when we wanted, say, a V8.

And for those wanting staff support. We won't get any unless we get this thing setup for finalization. Just like an investor doesn't throw money at an entrepreneur that only has the idea.

 

[WhiterunGuard]

Here's to hoping there are so many options that it'll make everyone's collective head spin! Like a turbine engines, duke engines or even a Stelzer engine (and more for different components of course)...maybe an option for six-stroke (I don't know why but we should have an option.) We should have an option for everything...I like a lot of choices and variety.

 

[eran0004]

Teams, of how many people? How would you regulate it so only 1 person isn't actually the only one doing anything? Why couldn't teams enter the current poll process? At what point do these Teams just become mini-committees?

You don't understand. A team can perfectly well be one person. The community aspect is:
1. That anyone in the community can form or join a team and enter the competition.
2. That anyone in the community can vote on the entries.

Wether or not the teams become mini-committees is up to them. If they want to work like that, fine. The bigger the committee, the more problem they will have with their design and they'll probably end up with a product that will get very few votes. Teams with a clear vision and a common goal will stand a much better chance at coming up with a clear and focused concept.

And you can assure that it won't, right? No. You can't. And you can assure people won't just vote for a nonsensical concept based on looks alone too? Wow can you also give me next weeks lottery numbers?

If people want aimless concepts they'll vote for that. But you must agree that there's a difference between voting for an aimless concept and to vote for components that together creates an aimless concept. I may want a sharp and focused concept and vote for those components that goes with my vision, but if my components only win 1/3 of the polls it will end up being something I didn't vote for. In fact, it will end up being something that nobody voted for and thus creates an aimless concept that nobody wanted.

But as long as people have a little common sense, it will not be a patchwork.

As long as the community speaks with one voice. But the community isn't one voice, it's lots of individual voices, each with their own opinions and ideas. They may think "I want a supercharged V8 so that's what I'll vote for" and they may win one of those polls. Another may think "I want a straight four" and they win one of those polls. Another may think "I want a three-cylinder hybrid" and they win one of those polls. Each of these persons have a clear idea of what they want, but in the polling process only a fraction of their ideas are being adapted and then they're assembled like some kind of Frankenstein's monster.

The model below shows people who wants a V-engine, people who wants a 4-cylinder and people who wants a hybrid. Each group is big enough to win their poll and some people who wants a V-engine also wants a 4-cylinder, some people who wants a 4-cylinder also wants a hybrid, etc. But the amount of people wanting the combination of a V4 hybrid is fewer. The more components that are being added to this, the smaller the group who wants them all becomes. In the end there'll be a car that nobody wants.

I know it's a metaphor, but sugar is in both. Anyway, the public gets what they want through a poll more effectively because they have a say in it more than they would having to select from 7 designs. Oh and by the way... Deriding poll results as patchwork contradicts your metaphor's meaning. You're saying we should give the public what they want, but saying that the poll result was nonsensical. Even though that's what they wanted.

So, I want cake so I vote for jam because jam is an ingredient in cake. But then coca-cola is added to the mix. That's not at all what I wanted. Had I known that coca-cola would win a poll I might have voted for ice instead because that's a better combination.

It's better to vote for finished products because then you know what you get.

If you want a product that you think nobody else is going to offer you can always create or join a design team and enter the competition.

Yes they did. The polls were done 1 by 1 which means someone with common sense would look at other results and see how it all fits together. There's also a lot to be said for a support network for LosCules24SFA when it comes to these polls, but I guess that's another point.

Common sense have very little to do with it. It's the format that gives this kind of result. Imagine the Eurovision Song Contest if it worked like this: First you vote for a beat, then the bass, then a tempo, then instruments, then a singer, then the backing vocals, then a coreography... no matter how much common sense the audience have, it's going to end up being something that nobody wants.

It is proof that we do need a brief. Every designer needs a brief to do a good design which is realistic. Giving free reign will likely lead to many more nonsensical concept cars like the Stratos thing mentioned above.

Every designer needs to have a clear idea of where he/she wants to go. Designers aren't mindless drones uncapable of thinking on their own, in fact I'd argue that a single idea created by a single mind is more powerful than a compromise between a hundred ideas from a hundred minds.

A brief is only needed if you want the designer to create a product that meets certain criterias. Free reins might lead to more nonsensical concepts but that's the entire point of competition: the community will vote for what they think is the best concept, and it doesn't matter if nonsensical concepts enter the competition, because what matters is the winning concept.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

Okay guys i need your deceision, shouold we proceed with the new poll or not?

 

[Smurfybug]

Okay guys i need your deceision, shouold we proceed with the new poll or not?

New poll

 

[KazaMR2]

Okay guys i need your deceision, shouold we proceed with the new poll or not?

I'm fine with a new poll.

 

[Ryk]

New Pole
New Dancers!

Oh that sort of Poll, boo hiss!

As an aside - what sort of Intro video would people like for the "Car of the people" -
Epic Rock guitar soundtrack with screaming solos

Retro 60's feel
classical solo piano
Maybe a voice over by some Deep Epic Movie Voice.

Just had to watch 5-6 GT Vision movies - which were all great, but the movie really sets the tone for the car. The Subaru one was ...impre ... sive - Very unique. This project has a lot of potential t highlight the posters talents.
Good Luck

 

[kembro]

Re Poll if u want, but not much point until we get @Jordan and PD onboard the project.

 

[titleguy1]

I think a new poll would be nice.

Also, I haven't dissappeared yet

 

[lGNAl]

Re Poll if u want, but not much point until we get @Jordan and PD onboard the project.

Let's get our 🤬 together then we'll get the O.K. We can't get a go ahead again with nothing on the table.

 

[iName]

Re Poll if u want, but not much point until we get @Jordan and PD onboard the project.

Like I said before. We won't get support unless we got this thing down. If you guys really are having this on hold until we get PD & Jordon's recognition, then you better have the patience of a sloth. I'll use the same analogy:

An investor doesn't throw millions at promises. He would want to see proof first that the entrepreneur can do what he says he can.

 

[sar593]

I just found out about this thread today, and it seems very interesting. Count me in. I think a new poll should be done, but with as many people as possible, thats what makes this a community based project.

The question is how to get involved so many people. I think we (the people in this thread) should just start to talk about this project in local, regional and global groups, social media and other forums.

 

[LosCules24SFA]

I just found out about this thread today, and it seems very interesting. Count me in. I think a new poll should be done, but with as many people as possible, thats what makes this a community based project.

The question is how to get involved so many people. I think we (the people in this thread) should just start to talk about this project in local, regional and global groups, social media and other forums.

Welcome to our project! also good idea on how to get more people involve in this project that would definitely benefit us cause if PD saw a lot of demand for our project then we'll get a better shot at making this project official

Ok then we'll proceed with the new poll @wvmgmidget as the project manager can you search for a secure polling system? since the voting poll manager position is still vacant.

 

[wvmgmidget]

Welcome to our project! also good idea on how to get more people involve in this project that would definitely benefit us cause if PD saw a lot of demand for our project then we'll get a better shot at making this project official

Ok then we'll proceed with the new poll @wvmgmidget as the project manager can you search for a secure polling system? since the voting poll manager position is still vacant.

I can, yes but, I still think staff approval is necessary.