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There really should be a Z-axis for this kind of thing, being the wise automotive sages that we are.
GTP Cool Wall: 1981-1989 Dodge Aries
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There really should be a Z-axis for this kind of thing, being the wise automotive sages that we are.
The87Dodge
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Hi guys, I'm back. 360 posts in 13 pages, just woah!
The Chrysler TC by Maserati was a success in many ways. And it doesn't look almost exactly like a Lebaron GTC, it has it's own uniqueness. I think the TC by Maserati was a smart idea and a nice looking car, but failed to be a sales success because lack of marketing, and upper-class pricing. I see plenty of innovation in the TC.
When in this thread did I make a personal attack?
Don't call me JMoney just because we both praise cars that normally would not be praised.
But the Cool Wall is based on opinion, there's no right or wrong answer in determining a car's coolness. I think the Aries receives at least a cool, but that's because I am biased towards Chrysler, have owned one, and I appreciate it. Liking a car makes it cool, in my book.
80's Civics will always be more memorable than an Aries, for the obvious reasons. It was sold all around the globe, and is popular today among enthusiasts and tuners, even ricers because of it's "JDM Stance Nation" or even "Ricer" image.
I don't know why you made that comment, since you were not involved in this discussion. I am serious about the way I feel on the Aries. And how does voting Sub Zero, instead of calling the car crap like almost everyone else (which is wrong) make me delusional?
I sure hope not.
Think we should cut him a little slack on one thing: Chrysler were the ones leading the changeover to internationally sized FWD cars. A lot of that goes to the Omni/Horizon more than the Aries, but in the context of 1981 the Aries was a big deal. American-built VWs of the time were junk. Most of the Japanese cars were still generally too small and even more underpowered than American ones. GM spent a lot of time and money squeezing any quality the Opel Cavalier might have had out of it so they could build it here cheaper, just like they did with the Chevette. Ford did the same with the Escort, and their only direct competitor to the Aries was the larger, heavier, older Fairmont. But the Aries was still a pretty big turning point to show that American companies could design and build small-ish modern basic transportation without having them be complete garbage.
Would the Aries had been a big deal if GM hadn't fallen flat on their face with the Citation? Certainly not. Would they have eventually found something else anyway? Sure, since the Accord came along soon after and made it all moot anyway (and the Camry a couple years after that). But the Citation most definitely did fall flat on its face, and most Americans in 1981 weren't going to buy an Accord.
Cadillac outsourced the Allante because there was a (probably justified) belief that Cadillac couldn't build that car to the level of quality needed for what they wanted it to be and the (reasonable) view that Peninfarina building it would give it enough snob appeal to differentiate it from the E-Body Eldorado that it was based on and justify the price. They doubled down and built the Reatta, but that was different enough car that they probably didn't steal any sales from each other even though you would think they would once the convertible came out.
Chrysler outsourced the TC because they happened to own part of Maserati at the time and Lido was cynical enough to believe that his friend de Tomaso could quickly take a break from making his own horrible cars to turn out an ultra exclusive Italian K that was similarly different enough from the Costanza Lebaron to justify its price while undercutting the Allante. Then he doubled down and made the almost identical looking Lebaron anyway, which even then might have worked had it not debuted first (because he outsourced the TC's engineering to 1980s Maserati and was delayed three years).
There's no innovation in obviously copying a bad idea a competitor already had, but screwing it up even worse then they did.
The Chrysler TC by Maserati was a success in many ways. And it doesn't look almost exactly like a Lebaron GTC, it has it's own uniqueness. I think the TC by Maserati was a smart idea and a nice looking car, but failed to be a sales success because lack of marketing, and upper-class pricing. I see plenty of innovation in the TC.
When in this thread did I make a personal attack?
Don't call me JMoney just because we both praise cars that normally would not be praised.
Okay. I'm willing to accept you've improved on the whole logic thing.
Oh. Never mind then.
- Saving a company from bankruptcy is not necessarily cool.
- Fiat had already been here. You mean again?
- I'm not sure how building crap products just to keep people employed is cool, either.
- "Influential" must mean something else in your neck of the woods.
I'm not going by any stereotypes. It's a crappy 80's econo-box.
No, not really.
- "Mastering".
- The Civic utterly murdered the K cars in that regard. Even the Escort was considerably better. This is working under the assumption gas mileage is somehow cool.
- "Comfortably" is a stretch.
- I distinctly remember riding in two different models of this growing up. Both rode like crap. I have to question what you're comparing it to.
- You do realize they named the car before they had any idea on long-term, real world reliability, right? Mitsubishi once called a car Carisma: do you think that suddenly injected it with a personality.
You can buy a Camcord with nearly 300hp these days. It doesn't make an Elise or Miata less of a sports car.
If you remove the front and rear clips, the first-gen J-Body and K-car are essentially interchangeable.
Nope.
Nope.
You keep saying this, but there's multiple reasons the K-cars are not remembered in automotive history as shining examples of build quality or reliability. Those reasons hail from Japan, and it's why finding a K-car in clean condition is nearly impossible.
As for all of this talk about being more knowledgeable than any other member: didn't you just recently refer to the Spirit R/T as a six cylinder, after blindly championing it for multiple posts?
I get liking a car for personal reasons. I totally buy that. But liking a car doesn't automatically make it cool. If you can't see that, then you don't really understand the spirit of the Cool Wall.
But the Cool Wall is based on opinion, there's no right or wrong answer in determining a car's coolness. I think the Aries receives at least a cool, but that's because I am biased towards Chrysler, have owned one, and I appreciate it. Liking a car makes it cool, in my book.
80's Civics will always be more memorable than an Aries, for the obvious reasons. It was sold all around the globe, and is popular today among enthusiasts and tuners, even ricers because of it's "JDM Stance Nation" or even "Ricer" image.
I don't know why you made that comment, since you were not involved in this discussion. I am serious about the way I feel on the Aries. And how does voting Sub Zero, instead of calling the car crap like almost everyone else (which is wrong) make me delusional?
I sure hope not.
Obelisk
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It sure is dangerously close to River Styx.
The87Dodge
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Almost the lowest of the low.
Wiegert
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He was referring to others potentially attacking you. Not the other way around.
That there are 10 genuinely less cool cars sitting lower than your Dodge at present. Including the last one you nominated.
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You're back?
Shouldn't you be writing "The Complete Encyclopedia and Visual History of 1980's American Automobiles"?
You've only got 364 days left.
- 13,288
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How long before the "Tales From Your Ass" card is pulled in this thread?
Obelisk
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The what now?
The87Dodge
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Obelisk
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Skeptical of this. There are so many things that can happen in the space of a year. I mean, just look at the world news since January 1.
The87Dodge
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Obelisk
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You missed the point. What I am trying to say is anything can and will happen. A year is a lot of time, true, but limiting it to that just means that you have less time to work with should something happen.
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What he truly meant, a year is a lot of time but, doesn't mean you can chill and that. Anything, and I mean ANYTHING can happen. You can blame life for the most part, how nowdays is goign on. Attacks, horror, all that ********.
If I were you, i would not slack around, this encyclopedia sounds like the real deal. No kidding or fooling around, serious.
If I were you, i would not slack around, this encyclopedia sounds like the real deal. No kidding or fooling around, serious.
Obelisk
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Thanks for the assist.
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Except for sales and prestige and quality, which were the only ones that mattered.
Iacocca wanted to sell 8000 high quality flagship models a year as a sneak preview of what Chrysler would be introducing for regular models in 1987. He got an indifferently assembled, obviously derivative white elephant that took three years to actually get to market even after Chrysler was forced to take over its development; that couldn't muster 8000 sales over its entire life. I'd agree it was a better looking car than the Lebaron, but I wouldn't want to be the sucker who paid twice as much for one when it was new.
Innovation is a rather straightforward concept. "Was this idea done before."
And it was a bad idea that time too, even when it was based off of more appropriate mechanicals and designed/assembled by a much more competent Italian company.
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Shouldn't you be working on something right now?
The87Dodge
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Maybe.
The87Dodge
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And men can also be homosexual. What's your point?
- 5,065
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And the premise of this in regard of the Aries is...?
Joey D
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I can respect someone that likes a rather unlikable car. I like an alarming number of unlikable cars and would even consider myself a fan of them. Past that I can't be bothered to read much into the thread.
As for the car, it's seriously uncool, but I have rather fond memories of them. My good buddy in high school drove one and many good times were had hooning around like teenagers do in it. It wasn't fast, good looking, or even terrible comfortable to ride around in, but he got his car before I got my license so to me it spelled freedom.
As for the car, it's seriously uncool, but I have rather fond memories of them. My good buddy in high school drove one and many good times were had hooning around like teenagers do in it. It wasn't fast, good looking, or even terrible comfortable to ride around in, but he got his car before I got my license so to me it spelled freedom.
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