GTP Cool Wall: 1993-1997 Ford Probe

[Kent]

I trust that you see the inherent flaw of when I say only car guys find this uncool you, as a car guy, are telling me why this is uncool...

Regular people care so little about cars that they're actively ignorant of them. One of my ex-girlfriends saw a Probe and I nearly crashed with laughter when she said "What kind of Ferrari is that?". Now, you or I might think that's absolutely ridiculous and also think that anyone who buys or owns a Ford Probe thinking at any point that it looks like a Ferrari is thoroughly deluded - but we're car guys. Ordinary people are that clueless about cars that they might think a car they've never seen before or heard of is actually a type of car that they have heard of - in this instance a Ford Probe and a Ferrari.

She followed that up with "Oh, is it one of those Toyota MR things?".Amongst other things, the Probe is very much not an everyday FWD Ford. Even when they were actually on sale, you never saw them.

As for thinking that everyday FWD Fords are cool... some might say that the Focus ST/RS, Fiesta ST, Mondeo ST, XR2/i, XR4/i and SportKa are cool, but the sea of regular Fords - Ka, Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, EcoSport, B-Max, C-Max, S-Max, Galaxy? Nah. More competent and enjoyable than most similarly-priced rivals, certainly - and even many higher-priced ones - but cool? Nah.

When I say it isn't cool that doesn't mean only car guys think it's not cool. Can't remember how to say it but it has something to do with those concepts not being mutually exclusive.

Also, I'm sorry to hear your GF wasn't a car person.

Finally...
"Amongst other things, the Probe is very much not an everyday FWD Ford. Even when they were actually on sale, you never saw them."

The statement above is either very true of Europe alone or an insane assumption that you know what it was like here in the US when that car was on sale.

They might not have been the most popular car but it was Definitely not a "you never saw them" situation.

 

[Wolfe]

In high school, 10-15 years ago when many more of these were on the roads (I think it's been years since I've seen one), my friends and I considered this an "impostor" car. Between its slick, pop-up-equipped styling and our relative inexperience with identifying cars, it was something you saw in the oncoming lane at a distance and thought, "Ooh, what's that? Is it a-- oh, it's just a Probe." "Hey, look over there! I think it's a-- damnit, another Probe."

I now have more respect for a car like this than I did at that time, but it's not cool.

 

[Famine]

When I say it isn't cool that doesn't mean only car guys think it's not cool. Can't remember how to say it but it has something to do with those concepts not being mutually exclusive.

Car guys know what cars are. Non-car guys don't.

What car guys find cool and uncool is cars that car guys find cool and uncool. What non-car guys find cool and uncool is what looks nice, or is a nice colour, or makes a nice noise (not too much though), or seems really sporty (but not, like, super tacky with spoilers and stuff).

Ask a car guy whether a Ford Probe is cool or not and they will tell you. Ask a non-car guy and they'll say "What's one of those?".

Also, I'm sorry to hear your GF wasn't a car person.

Ex-girlfriend. And for that, amongst many other reasons, I'm not sorry in the slightest

Finally...

The statement above is either very true of Europe alone or an insane assumption that you know what it was like here in the US when that car was on sale.

They might not have been the most popular car but it was Definitely not a "you never saw them" situation.

That's... a reach. Why would you think someone who was born and lives in the UK would be talking about the US domestic market during the period that they were 16-20?

That aside, they sold 311,000 Probes in the US in that period. Total US car sales were 74 million in the same period, making for 1 Probe sold per 240 other cars. They fed into a fleet of 250 million cars, so even if we assume that every new car replaced one old car, that'd be a penetration of 1 Probe every 800 cars. I'd imagine that if you lived in Dearborn you might see them slightly more often than that.

In the UK, they sold just under 20,000 Probes between 1994 and 1998, with roughly 10 million cars sold in the UK in total in the same period, making for 1 Probe sold per 500 other cars. They fed into a fleet of just about 22 million, so again even if we assume that every new car replaced one old car, that'd be a penetration of 1 Probe every 1,100 cars. Again, this might have improved if you lived in Dagenham or Halewood.


Of course I saw one every day, whether or not everyone else did.

Tee-hee... penetration of probes

 

[Kent]

Car guys know what cars are. Non-car guys don't.

What car guys find cool and uncool is cars that car guys find cool and uncool. What non-car guys find cool and uncool is what looks nice, or is a nice colour, or makes a nice noise (not too much though), or seems really sporty (but not, like, super tacky with spoilers and stuff).

Ask a car guy whether a Ford Probe is cool or not and they will tell you. Ask a non-car guy and they'll say "What's one of those?".Ex-girlfriend. And for that, amongst many other reasons, I'm not sorry in the slightest
That's... a reach. Why would you think someone who was born and lives in the UK would be talking about the US domestic market during the period that they were 16-20?

That aside, they sold 311,000 Probes in the US in that period. Total US car sales were 74 million in the same period, making for 1 Probe sold per 240 other cars. They fed into a fleet of 250 million cars, so even if we assume that every new car replaced one old car, that'd be a penetration of 1 Probe every 800 cars. I'd imagine that if you lived in Dearborn you might see them slightly more often than that.

In the UK, they sold just under 20,000 Probes between 1994 and 1998, with roughly 10 million cars sold in the UK in total in the same period, making for 1 Probe sold per 500 other cars. They fed into a fleet of just about 22 million, so again even if we assume that every new car replaced one old car, that'd be a penetration of 1 Probe every 1,100 cars. Again, this might have improved if you lived in Dagenham or Halewood.


Of course I saw one every day, whether or not everyone else did.

Tee-hee... penetration of probes

Work out the math however you want in a theoretical system of assumptions regarding location and dozens of other factors. It doesn't matter.

In the same number of years (93-97) Corvette production numbers equaled only 1/3 of the production of the Probe (roughly)... Would you say the Corvette from the years in question is also a car you never see?

Of course, I see one everyday but you probably never see one.
That's also because I'm super lucky to see those ultra rare C4 vettes.

 

[TheCracker]

In the same number of years (93-97) Corvette production numbers equaled only 1/3 of the production of the Probe (roughly)... Would you say the Corvette from the years in question is also a car you never see?

Not in the UK you don't. Lol.

 

[Slash]

I see C3s, C4s, C7s and C6s the most often.

 

[Famine]

Work out the math however you want in a theoretical system of assumptions regarding location and dozens of other factors. It doesn't matter.

Uhh, yes it does. That's the point of it. It shows that people bought, at best, 240 times fewer Probes than everything else and, at best, there were 800 times as many other cars as Probes on average across the USA. To put that into context, they sell more Kia Fortes a year in the USA than they ever sold Probes.

In the UK the Probe was even rarer. 500 times as many other cars were bought than Probes and there were 1,100 times as many other cars on average across the UK (again, at best).

I get that you don't agree with the numbers, but that doesn't matter - because your personal experience is not relevant to the average. Neither is mine.

In the same number of years (93-97) Corvette production numbers equaled only 1/3 of the production of the Probe (roughly)... Would you say the Corvette from the years in question is also a car you never see?

Yes.

Amusingly, there were 8 times as many Probes in the UK in 2001 as there were Corvettes (of all generations). There are now 1.2 times more Corvettes (of all generations). This hasn't been buoyed by sales - only 40 Corvettes have been sold in the UK since 2001, all C7s.

 

[Tornado]

I don't think it is much of a stretch to think that there are probably more C4 Corvettes still running around than contemporary Probes in America as well.

 

[Slash]

I don't think it is much of a stretch to think that there are probably more C4 Corvettes still running around than contemporary Probes in America as well.

That's because people actually like Corvettes.

 

[ApexDrift123]

Personally don't mind it

 

[Kent]

Uhh, yes it does. That's the point of it. It shows that people bought, at best, 240 times fewer Probes than everything else and, at best, there were 800 times as many other cars as Probes on average across the USA. To put that into context, they sell more Kia Fortes a year in the USA than they ever sold Probes.

In the UK the Probe was even rarer. 500 times as many other cars were bought than Probes and there were 1,100 times as many other cars on average across the UK (again, at best).

I get that you don't agree with the numbers, but that doesn't matter - because your personal experience is not relevant to the average. Neither is mine.Yes.

Amusingly, there were 8 times as many Probes in the UK in 2001 as there were Corvettes (of all generations). There are now 1.2 times more Corvettes (of all generations). This hasn't been buoyed by sales - only 40 Corvettes have been sold in the UK since 2001, all C7s.

This is almost pointless because of how far you are from a relevant source of how common these cars were during the '90s (here in America where the bulk of these cars were sold).

And despite the loss of context, the math still does very, very little to support that the Probe was "rare" (especially when you consider how common Corvettes were and how few of those were sold compared to the Probe).

Go on more though with the numbers about how the Probe was purchased 240 times less than Everything else and how there were 800 times as many other cars as Probes, etc etc. And for good measure I'd use current sales of high production low quality cars from our current economy.
Seems perfectly reasonable and I appreciate you taking the time to explain how there were so many other cars on the road.

None of that changes the fact that a Probe was a run of the mill FWD ford from the '90s.
Still feel free to convince me how the lack of popularity in Europe is proof of their rarity in the US at that time.

 

[Famine]

This is almost pointless because of how far you are from a relevant source of how common these cars were during the '90s (here in America where the bulk of these cars were sold).

You know I'm sure I quoted you US sales figures in the 1993-1997 period...

That aside, they sold 311,000 Probes in the US in that period. Total US car sales were 74 million in the same period, making for 1 Probe sold per 240 other cars. They fed into a fleet of 250 million cars, so even if we assume that every new car replaced one old car, that'd be a penetration of 1 Probe every 800 cars. I'd imagine that if you lived in Dearborn you might see them slightly more often than that.

Why yes. Yes I did.

The US sales of the Probe were 1 Probe per 240 other cars in the US over its lifetime and with the US having 250 million cars on the road in that period, if every old car in the US were replaced with a new one, the Probe would have been on the road at the rate of 1 Probe per 800 other cars in the US. In the 1993-1997 period in the US when the Probe was sold.

That's literally a relevant source of how common these cars were during the '90s (there in America where the bulk of those cars were sold).

And despite the loss of context, the math still does very, very little to support that the Probe was "rare"

Except telling you how often you'd be likely to see them, on average. Once every 800 other cars.

Not that I actually used the word "rare" at any point in order to require supporting it. I used the word "rarer" to compare the UK penetration (which was between half as much and three quarters as much) to US penetration though - and the math supports that also. Which is why I said it.

(especially when you consider how common Corvettes were and how few of those were sold compared to the Probe).

Which has nothing to do with anything thus far, much less especially so...

Go on more though with the numbers about how the Probe was purchased 240 times less than Everything else and how there were 800 times as many other cars as Probes, etc etc. And for good measure I'd use current sales of high production low quality cars from our current economy.
Seems perfectly reasonable and I appreciate you taking the time to explain how there were so many other cars on the road.

None of that changes the fact that a Probe was a run of the mill FWD ford from the '90s.

No it doesn't, because that's not what the math is there for. The objection you had at first was that I commented that "even when they were on sale, you never saw them" and that's what the math is there for. It shows that in the USA, when the car was on sale, on average every time someone bought a Probe, 240 other people bought other cars and, on average, those Probes joined a US fleet of cars that numbered 800 for every Probe.

If you wish to change your objection from that to "the fact that a Probe was a run of the mill FWD ford from the '90s", I'll point you to these other posts which have nothing to do with mine. If you wish to bring up your factual objection to them, please do so - but note that the math of relative market penetration of the Probe that I showed you doesn't address the drivetrain or competency of the car so it shouldn't be brought up with me.

Still feel free to convince me how the lack of popularity in Europe is proof of their rarity in the US at that time.

I posted for you sales of the Probe vs. everything else in the US at that time. That's the rarity in the US at that time.

I posted a second set of figures for which were the sales of the Probe vs. everything else in the UK at that time. I compared the two and pointed out that the Probe was between 50% and 30% less common in the UK compared to the USA. It's not possible to compare the two sets of figures unless both were given, which I did.

 

[Joey D]

I'd imagine that if you lived in Dearborn you might see them slightly more often than that.

To add some anecdotal observation to your point, I grew up and lived less than 40 miles from Dearborn for 25 years, the Probes were never terribly popular and still aren't to this day.

 

[Northstar]

Seriously Uncool. I can't imagine getting rear-ended by a Probe is a very pleasant experience.

 

[Tornado]

They were pretty popular when I was in high school, but only one of them managed to make it to graduation.

 

[TexRex]

This is almost pointless because of how far you are from a relevant source of how common these cars were during the '90s (here in America where the bulk of these cars were sold).

And despite the loss of context, the math still does very, very little to support that the Probe was "rare" (especially when you consider how common Corvettes were and how few of those were sold compared to the Probe).

Go on more though with the numbers about how the Probe was purchased 240 times less than Everything else and how there were 800 times as many other cars as Probes, etc etc. And for good measure I'd use current sales of high production low quality cars from our current economy.
Seems perfectly reasonable and I appreciate you taking the time to explain how there were so many other cars on the road.

None of that changes the fact that a Probe was a run of the mill FWD ford from the '90s.
Still feel free to convince me how the lack of popularity in Europe is proof of their rarity in the US at that time.

You know I'm sure I quoted you US sales figures in the 1993-1997 period...
Why yes. Yes I did.

The US sales of the Probe were 1 Probe per 240 other cars in the US over its lifetime and with the US having 250 million cars on the road in that period, if every old car in the US were replaced with a new one, the Probe would have been on the road at the rate of 1 Probe per 800 other cars in the US. In the 1993-1997 period in the US when the Probe was sold.

That's literally a relevant source of how common these cars were during the '90s (there in America where the bulk of those cars were sold).Except telling you how often you'd be likely to see them, on average. Once every 800 other cars.

Not that I actually used the word "rare" at any point in order to require supporting it. I used the word "rarer" to compare the UK penetration (which was between half as much and three quarters as much) to US penetration though - and the math supports that also. Which is why I said it.Which has nothing to do with anything thus far, much less especially so...No it doesn't, because that's not what the math is there for. The objection you had at first was that I commented that "even when they were on sale, you never saw them" and that's what the math is there for. It shows that in the USA, when the car was on sale, on average every time someone bought a Probe, 240 other people bought other cars and, on average, those Probes joined a US fleet of cars that numbered 800 for every Probe.

If you wish to change your objection from that to "the fact that a Probe was a run of the mill FWD ford from the '90s", I'll point you to these other posts which have nothing to do with mine. If you wish to bring up your factual objection to them, please do so - but note that the math of relative market penetration of the Probe that I showed you doesn't address the drivetrain or competency of the car so it shouldn't be brought up with me.I posted for you sales of the Probe vs. everything else in the US at that time. That's the rarity in the US at that time.

I posted a second set of figures for which were the sales of the Probe vs. everything else in the UK at that time. I compared the two and pointed out that the Probe was between 50% and 30% less common in the UK compared to the USA. It's not possible to compare the two sets of figures unless both were given, which I did.

Big, fat Meh from me. I neither like nor dislike them because I really don't care about them. Of course as polling goes, Meh doesn't really express the same feeling. Oh well.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The name was terrible. Otherwise, this was genuinely a better car (in terms of chassis and drivetrain, not quality) than the Mustang of the time. It should have replaced the Mustang. Instead the Mustang carried on, always beholden to being a Mustang....to it's detriment, and the Probe died as an honorable attempt at creating a new performance Ford without the baggage of the Mustang. But that name....

Cool.

Also, the Mazda KL-DE engine in the probe V6 sounds pretty amazing. It's a shame Ford didn't have the balls to really beat up on the Mustang with the hotter KL-ZE. Here is the DE:

 

[homeforsummer]

The name was terrible. Otherwise, this was genuinely a better car (in terms of chassis and drivetrain, not quality) than the Mustang of the time.

This is the unspoken thing I've been wondering about. Given how not-good Mustangs were when this generation of Probe appeared, I've always suspected the Probe might actually have been better. Which is amusing, given the horror some people display that the Probe was due to be its replacement.

I also wonder whether the Probe would have been more or less cool if it had carried the Mustang name. I mean, on the one hand, it would no longer be called 'Probe'. On the other, even I can see that a front-wheel drive Mustang is not a cool Mustang.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I also wonder whether the Probe would have been more or less cool if it had carried the Mustang name. I mean, on the one hand, it would no longer be called 'Probe'. On the other, even I can see that a front-wheel drive Mustang is not a cool Mustang.

The Mustang design team would have been hung in the streets by the faithful if they named the Probe as Mustang. That's my biggest problem with the Mustang. It's #1 priority is not performance, its not refinement, and it's not quality. The #1 priority has historically been being unequivocally Mustang. I can imagine Ford's performance engineers and stylists in the late 80s and early 90s desperately wanting to create something fresh & contemporary, for the sake of their own pride and fulfillment, but being told no by upper management because the Mustang is Mustang and will always be Mustang. The 2015 Mustang is the first genuinely good car that has ever worn the Mustang name. It did it by being the furthest deviation from the Mustang template ever produced.

/3 time Mustang owner.

 

[Tornado]

If the Probe had become the new Mustang the Mustang nameplate wouldn't have even lasted long enough to see the Camaro die off in 2002. The market segment the Probe was in was already dying by the time the Probe came out.

 

[Bobert power]

It's a Ford, it was originally intended to replace the Mustang as well.

SERIOUSLY UNCOOL

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Surprisingly decent car.

Supremely, depressingly, terribly uncool. Particularly with average modifications, which consist of painted interior plastics, spraybombed stock wheels, either a fart can or a straight pipe, and varying degrees of idiot drivers.

 

[cjr3559]

Kinda cool back then, meh now. Oh wait, it's called 'Probe'?

 

[TheBook]

My friend had one. He bought it from someone who had completely riced it out and never changed it. Hilarious to drive because I didn't have to care about it. Seriously, ridiculously uncool.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

It's just simply uncool. I mean, I don't think the Probe looks to bad; it looks like it could be a decent sporty coupe like the other cars in it's class such as the Mitsubishi Eclipse and VW Corrado, but that's about it. I have a soft spot for them as a car, but I also have a slight annoyance with them as Ford tried to make this a replacement for the Mustang.

That's the main reason for my uncool vote; it's just no Mustang replacement. If it wasn't trying to take the place the Mustang had, it would have a cool vote. Though yeah, there's also no way it would reach sub-zero of course, it's name is "Probe".