GTP Cool Wall: 2002-2004 Chrysler 300M Special

[Roo]

I'm not sure why you don't think it's a sports sedan. It makes sports-sedan like power and torque, and has all the goodies that you'd expect in a sport sedan.

Dumping butter, eggs, sugar and flour in a bowl and sticking it in an oven has all the goodies that you'd expect in a cake, but doesn't necessarily make for pleasant eating...

 

[Wiegert]

Something tells me that nominating the full 300M range rather than picking the lightly seasoned porky sporty model would have limited the amount of backlash and probably would have ended up nearer to @The87Dodge's desired poll outcome... Probably Vanilla.

Eh. I still find the higher spec examples such as this cool-ish regardless of badge embellishment. With a level of presence that the LHS and Concorde lacked without being a completely unattractive Millennium slab. Though it does skirt very close to the line where Meh would be.



But then we get posts like this:

I can assure you that a 300M Special is not everyday transport, but car for car enthusiasts and people who want a sporty, luxurious sedan good for windy roads and fun times. "Everyday cars" don't have racing brakes, low ride heights, sports tires, sports suspensions, dual exhausts, and performance interiors usually, do they?

Which do nothing beyond intensify the urge to change my own vote. And I ain't looking at Sub Zero.

Being able to stop over a moderately shorter distance (suddenly these are "racing" brakes, now?) and allegedly turn with more zest than a typical luxury US model of the time while being heavier than standard isn't indicative of something special. In any market. That and I don't know of any enthusiasts who would champion this ahead of a well-defined, full-size sports saloon.

It has a faintly more noticeable whiff of sportiness than a regular 3.5L 300M, and that isn't saying much.

"Everyday cars" don't have

dual exhausts

A common feature even on common bog standard models these days, mind.

 

[The87Dodge]

Dumping butter, eggs, sugar and flour in a bowl and sticking it in an oven has all the goodies that you'd expect in a cake, but doesn't necessarily make for pleasant eating...

But... the 300M Special is a pleasant car to drive.

This Car and Driver review seems to say quite a bit about the car.


If you don't want to read it, basically it's a $3,600 premium for better brakes and some trim, the speed and handling are pretty much the same as the vanilla car.

Too bad Car & Driver doesn't think it's a cool car, I wish they had my Mopar bias.

 

[TS050]

I wish they had my Mopar bias.

who in their right mind would want something like this

 

[R5]

Neither do I, but it's close enough to the real thing that I wouldn't care.

Wow. You're literally a car dealer's wet dream.

You claimed the car had CFRP in the interior, then when discovered it wasn't carbon fibre you just shrugged it off.

You're also buying the idea that it's a sports sedan when, according to independent tests in the article @Northstar posted, the only differences in stats are the fact that it is slower than the stock car and that it brakes very well. That, by the way, isn't due to "racing brakes", I mean they're upgraded but I wouldn't trust them to stop a racing car.

Too bad Car & Driver doesn't think it's a cool car, I wish they had my Mopar bias.

Ok, thank you for confirming you're a troll.

 

[E28]

Not even the M5 had this much power. And, it's an American midsize sedan priced at just above $30k, 400 horsepower is a lot to expect for a price that cheap. Not to mention 400 horsepower in an FF car would cause massive understeer. It really doesn't need much more power than 255.

The E28 M5 was putting out 280ish horsepower in 1986? Even the less powerful US models made the same amount as the 300M 'Special', 15 years earlier. By the time the 300M was out, even the M3 bettered it by nearly 100hp...

Uncool. It's a boring, early 00's, front-drive American sedan with slightly more than average horsepower and Halfords CF trim.

 

[Dagger311]

It's a warmed over Sebring with a hardtop and fake carbon fiber.

That last bit alone is enough to make it SU. Factory rice much?

 

[Obelisk]

@The87Dodge You and I are gonna need to have a long talk about fact-checking and not talking out of your ass. Your attitude in this thread just drove me from a "meh" vote to a Super Uncool.

 

[Joey D]

I absolutely love these and they're a total guilty pleasure vehicle of mine. I'm not entirely sure what it is about them, but when they were first introduced I wanted one. I also, weirdly enough, like the Intrepid it shares it's platform with too.

The car is still uncool though.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

It's probably worth noting that the only person I ever knew to own a 300M was in his 70s and couldn't walk without assistance. I was always amazed that he managed to drive anywhere.

 

[McLaren]

Of course it can actually turn. What I mean was that it can not turn well compared to other cars. The 300M special can turn better than the ordinary 300M, due to a better suspension, sports tires, racing brakes, and lower ride height.

Other cars being anything running well into 6 figures alongside it. It will still decimate the majority of the car market, "sports" & "performance" cars alike.

It can turn. For starters, the sports tires, racing brakes, sports suspension, and lower ride height are things that can make any car turn better.

I think what @TS040 wants to know are the specifics of these.

What kind of tires? Are the brakes Brembos for starts or factory brakes with a painted caliper? Is the suspension actually different, or did they just tweak what was already there to make it "sportier"?

 

[AlvaroF]

Oh dear... I was only going to vote uncool. It's so bland. But then I read this thread.

 

[Casey]

Looks like a bland old person car, nothing special about it.

SU.

 

[Ettick]

Like an American sport edition Camry, except uglier.

 

[The87Dodge]

Wow. You're literally a car dealer's wet dream.

You claimed the car had CFRP in the interior, then when discovered it wasn't carbon fibre you just shrugged it off.

You're also buying the idea that it's a sports sedan when, according to independent tests in the article @Northstar posted, the only differences in stats are the fact that it is slower than the stock car and that it brakes very well. That, by the way, isn't due to "racing brakes", I mean they're upgraded but I wouldn't trust them to stop a racing car.


Ok, thank you for confirming you're a troll.

What, so I'm "trolling" because I have a Mopar bias? Never knew that was considered as trolling.

 

[Neddo]

Well it was 14 years ago. Not even the M5 had this much power. And, it's an American midsize sedan priced at just above $30k, 400 horsepower is a lot to expect for a price that cheap. Not to mention 400 horsepower in an FF car would cause massive understeer. It really doesn't need much more power than 255.

This fella had 400hp

 

[Obelisk]

What, so I'm "trolling" because I have a Mopar bias? Never knew that was considered as trolling.

Buddy. That Mopar bias has ruined a lot of the cars you've tried to put on a podium. Most prominently the Aries. Just stop.

 

[Tornado]

These handled well enough, they looked sharp inside and out, had good "presence", made good use of their space and were reasonably quick. Much more than the sum of its parts would suggest (since on paper it is just an LHS with most of the overhangs chopped), Chrysler managed to cut the legs off the second generation Aurora before GM even got it to the market; and the 300M was rightfully lauded at the time for being one of the best in the segment when new. If I had bought one of them instead, it also probably wouldn't lurch between various states of "broken".




But I'm not sure if I could really give the regular 300M a cool, nevermind the bizarrely specific one being polled with the questionable bodykit and plastic carbon fiber interior (why not just make the wood trim part of the package?).

 

[The87Dodge]

Buddy. Just stop.

So you want me to stop liking Mopar?

Dude, pretty much every car nerd has a favorite brand or a brand they like to obsess about. It's not the end of the world that I have a Mopar-centered opinion. That's what the CW is based on, opinion.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Please, oh god don't let this go on like the Aries thread.


Also:



The fact that the 300M in itself looked... Alright, I guess, saves it from being SU.

 

[The87Dodge]

Please, oh god don't let this go on like the Aries thread.

I sure do hope that this doesn't end up like the Aries thread.

 

[titleguy1]

Meh, I've yet to encounter a post-1990 Chrysler that's cool. It's so bland too.

Uncool.

 

[The87Dodge]

Meh, I've yet to encounter a post-1990 Chrysler that's cool.

Uncool.

Chrysler Crossfire
Chrysler 300C SRT8
Chrysler LHS

Here are three examples.

 

[titleguy1]

Chrysler Crossfire
Chrysler 300C SRT8
Chrysler LHS

Here are three examples.

Yeah.
Um.
No thanks.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Chrysler LHS

The hell is an LHS
No really I've never heard of it, had to google it up

 

[Obelisk]

So you want me to stop liking Mopar?

Dude, pretty much every car nerd has a favorite brand or a brand they like to obsess about. It's not the end of the world that I have a Mopar-centered opinion. That's what the CW is based on, opinion.

OPINION. I'm not saying to stop liking Mopar. But Mopar isn't better than everything else.

For example, I love Chevy. The Corvette's always been my favorite car. And I own an '05 Chevy Impala. Do I think the Impala best thing in the world? No. It's a solid car but it has its flaws. It doesn't have the best handling, the engine is very inefficient (3.4 liters and only 180 HP? Come on. The Germans were like that in the 1980s.), the gearbox is a bit cruddy and the electronics struggle. But it does get me from A to B safely and it has a comfortable, roomy ride.

^That is how you express an opinion. You have to be able to admit that your favorite car has flaws or downsides to it when compared to others in the same market. Like everyone else has said, the 300M isn't a very good car. While 255 HP is pretty good for a sedan of its size, the 70 additional pounds of features makes it a moot point. Handling wise, it would actually be worse if they have the same suspension system in place (I estimate maybe the same as the Impala - .7 to .75. a Mazda3 base model hatchback from the same year was closer to .8 on the skidpad.). Another thing, that freakin curb weight. You wanna tell me how a 3,700 pound sedan is going to outcorner a true sports car? Chances are, it won't. Even with the sports suspension, etc., on it, it isn't going to match a BMW M series or any of the hot hatches/sports coupes.

Additionally, my sister owns a Sebring convertible and I cannot tell you crappy the thing is.

87Dodge, it's very much against you right now. Just stop posting in this thread and maybe people will vote better.

 

[Tornado]

The LHS was the cheaper, more conservative and blander old person equivalent to the 300M. The Deville to the 300M's Seville. The Avalon to the 300M's Camry Solara.

 

[R5]

What, so I'm "trolling" because I have a Mopar bias? Never knew that was considered as trolling.

No, it's a number of things.

Given how the Aries thread went, it seems logical that you would refrain from doing these in the future but like any troll you're keeping at it and not learning anything. You're still:

• Cherry picking arguments to have
• Refusing to accept any sort of viewpoint which doesn't agree with your own
• Making ridiculous statements (I refer you to the "Book" which was brownbeaten to a pulp in the Aries thread)
• Not presenting any evidence for said ridiculous statements (If they call for evidence)
• Claiming people don't want you to like Mopar products

Now, to make it 100% clear, I don't care what car you choose to like, but I do care that you are being a total arse about it to the extent where I'm actually hoping you are a troll because it is absolutely pathetic that these threads still happen and you still act in exactly the same way in them.

 

[The87Dodge]

OPINION. I'm not saying to stop liking Mopar. But Mopar isn't better than everything else.

For example, I love Chevy. The Corvette's always been my favorite car. And I own an '05 Chevy Impala. Do I think the Impala best thing in the world? No. It's a solid car but it has its flaws. It doesn't have the best handling, the engine is very inefficient (3.4 liters and only 180 HP? Come on. The Germans were like that in the 1980s.), the gearbox is a bit cruddy and the electronics struggle. But it does get me from A to B safely and it has a comfortable, roomy ride.

^That is how you express an opinion. You have to be able to admit that your favorite car has flaws or downsides to it when compared to others in the same market. Like everyone else has said, the 300M isn't a very good car. While 255 HP is pretty good for a sedan of its size, the 70 additional pounds of features makes it a moot point. Handling wise, it would actually be worse if they have the same suspension system in place (I estimate maybe the same as the Impala - .7 to .75. a Mazda3 base model hatchback from the same year was closer to .8 on the skidpad.). Another thing, that freakin curb weight. You wanna tell me how a 3,700 pound sedan is going to outcorner a true sports car? Chances are, it won't. Even with the sports suspension, etc., on it, it isn't going to match a BMW M series or any of the hot hatches/sports coupes.

Additionally, my sister owns a Sebring convertible and I cannot tell you crappy the thing is.

87Dodge, it's very much against you right now. Just stop posting in this thread and maybe people will vote better.

I own a 1987 Aries. It's not my daily driver, and I do praise it. But do I think it's the greatest thing every given to mankind? Not at all. Greatest car ever? Not close. Greatest Mopar? Still no. Greatest 80's car? Nope.

No, it's a number of things.

Given how the Aries thread went, it seems logical that you would refrain from doing these in the future but like any troll you're keeping at it and not learning anything. You're still:

• Cherry picking arguments to have
• Refusing to accept any sort of viewpoint which doesn't agree with your own
• Making ridiculous statements (I refer you to the "Book" which was brownbeaten to a pulp in the Aries thread)
• Not presenting any evidence for said ridiculous statements (If they call for evidence)
• Claiming people don't want you to like Mopar products

Now, to make it 100% clear, I don't care what car you choose to like, but I do care that you are being a total arse about it to the extent where I'm actually hoping you are a troll because it is absolutely pathetic that these threads still happen and you still act in exactly the same way in them.

Believe me, I don't want these arguments. These arguments started indirectly, I didn't nominate the Aries for polling just so there could be a 520-page long fight. And I do provide evidence.

 

[MisterWaffles]

It's not the most awful thing on this planet, so uncool it is.