GTP Cool Wall: 2005-2011 Bugatti Veyron EB 16.4
- Thread starter Jahgee
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- Murcie LP710
Straight to the Ice-Box.
Not for the specs, not for the looks, not for who owns them (because there are some "Uncool" people that do own one) but because, like the Phaeton, it's the VAG giving a giant middle finger to common sense and building a vehicle that is all things to all men at an incredibly exorbitant loss to them.
And apparently that pisses "enthusiasts" off, which makes my heart filled with joy.
Not for the specs, not for the looks, not for who owns them (because there are some "Uncool" people that do own one) but because, like the Phaeton, it's the VAG giving a giant middle finger to common sense and building a vehicle that is all things to all men at an incredibly exorbitant loss to them.
And apparently that pisses "enthusiasts" off, which makes my heart filled with joy.
Joel
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- Noob616
First things first, you're hereby thrown out of the GTP mafia book club of liberals who all agree on everything, we can't have you disagreeing with the consensus
I think that's GTP's car nerd sampling bias at play here. In the general public this is a well known and famous car and is one of the ultimate wealth/status symbols. Kids say they want to grow up and have a Bugatti, rappers brag about having one, etc. "Bugatti" is the catch-all word for fast/expensive car in the way that Ferrari used to be. We're car nerds who know enough about the car to know that it's not quite as special as it's made out to be, so there's backlash against that.
For me it's not really anything about the car itself that makes it uncool, as you said it's a true everyday supercar and you can drive one every day without spilling coffee on your shirt, while being faster than anything else out there. It really isn't all that showy in and of itself, but what it represents is just distasteful to me. For me it's not about being a fake/real car guy, but it's that this car is the ultimate expensive car trump card. The rich and famous/elite athletes want them because all the other exclusive and expensive cars aren't exclusive and expensive enough. The car itself isn't showy, but the relentless and impractical pursuit of engineering that went into VAG producing a 1000hp, 250mph luxury car for the hell of it of it is exactly why I think it's uncool.
The zero compromise engineering of the Veyron ignores that there is a compromise - price. And that's why I think it's uncool. It's a car that's entire ethos is to be the very best. People drive a Veyron because a Maybach isn't good enough. They drive one because a Ferrari isn't fast enough.
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I have to say, the Veyron has introduced a variable into this that I don't think we've seen before.
There are people who vote on cars based on the car with its styling and numbers and nothing else.
There are those, myself included, who also consider the kind of things a car might be used for, the image it projects being driven down the street, and what sort of people might own it*.
With the Veyron, we have several people not even debating the merits of the car itself, and how it might be driven, but voting based on the image perceived by others of a particular demographic (the Top Gear generation, let's say). It's very meta, given we're discussing it on the internet where such views originate from in the first place, but it's certainly an unusual way of judging a car's coolness.
* This is an area in which I have to be a little inconsistent with my usual voting. As @TheCracker has highlighted, some true bell-ends own Veyrons but I believe its other attributes offset this. Chris Evans owns a Ferrari F40 and I'm prepared to overlook that too...
There are people who vote on cars based on the car with its styling and numbers and nothing else.
There are those, myself included, who also consider the kind of things a car might be used for, the image it projects being driven down the street, and what sort of people might own it*.
With the Veyron, we have several people not even debating the merits of the car itself, and how it might be driven, but voting based on the image perceived by others of a particular demographic (the Top Gear generation, let's say). It's very meta, given we're discussing it on the internet where such views originate from in the first place, but it's certainly an unusual way of judging a car's coolness.
* This is an area in which I have to be a little inconsistent with my usual voting. As @TheCracker has highlighted, some true bell-ends own Veyrons but I believe its other attributes offset this. Chris Evans owns a Ferrari F40 and I'm prepared to overlook that too...
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- GTP_Leonidae_MFT
Cool. It set out to do 250mph and then some, and did it, while offering reliability and driveability of VW Golf.
Joel
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- Noob616
The easiest way for me to wrap my head around it is that the Veyron is to the general public as the Miata is to car guys. They're incredible cars and they've been called the best so much that people have turned on them. The idea of the Bugatti being the "best" car is a lot like "the answer is always Miata". It annoys people because it's not necessarily true.
Now if we want to get even more meta, it might be cool to drive ironically
McLaren
Premium
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Sub zero based on it being the closest thing to the F1 in term of performance, achievements, & the benchmark for everybody else. Love it or hate it, this car immediately cemented itself in automotive history right next to the McLaren because it brought a similar idea back to the table. The only different is the era of the owners between the 2 and the economy allowing the Veyron to thrive.
Jahgee
(Banned)
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If it was just price it wouldn't be so bad. The car compromises everything, there are very few 4000 lbs supercars, and this supreme luxury vehicle can only carry two. The 253 mph bit is impressive, but it's still 1000 HP to get 700 HP worth of performance, until maybe you hit 150-200.
I can't see it as the engineering marvel that some other people do because I like solving problems, not making them. The relative simplification of a Radical is good engineering. Giving your engine more cylinders in less a convenient arrangement is hard. It's also doing it wrong.
- 3,475
- Vilnius
It's so cliche "the fastest thing evah" that it hurts. It's an amazing engineering marvel but the kind of people who buy them or brag about them make it painfully dull and annoying. Seriously, seriously uncool.
- 23,890
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
The Veyron isn't VAG giving the middle finger to anyone. They're well known for making cars that do everything well, but do nothing outstanding. The Veyron is no different. If it was a pain in the ass to drive slowly or tricky to drive on the limit, then that would be VAG giving the middle finger, but as Leonidae said above, 'it offers the reliability and drivability of a Golf' - which is exactly what you expect of a VAG product. It's all very much common sense.
- 3,835
- Leiria
I belive Jenson Button had one as well.
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The Bugattis are tough to rate. I had some trouble with the EB110, now this one? As an engineer piece it's cool, but engineers in general are uncool. People who can afford them are uncool (maybe except the one I mentioned). But I like the way it looks, I like what it stands for, but I can't just give it cool, out of my emotions. I hurts to do this, because I adore it (despite being like a tank and weigh more than the whole Himalayas), but I have to give it uncool.
Joel
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There's no need to add caveats, a car that's luxurious enough to drink coffee in, and drive daily that weighs 4000lbs, seats two, and hits 253mph is impressive, full stop.
What are the problems, and how would you solve them?
Depends on what the goal is. Throw a big V8 in the thing and you'll make your power, but now it's loud and rumbly and you need to figure our how to fix that. It's not all about raw power, the 16 cylinders and quad turbos is about keeping noise, vibration, and harshness down. It's not a muscle car.
The Veyron isn't about the relative simplification of a radical. That's what a Corvette is for.
- 6,690
- Mexico City
- MoLieG
Hate, hate everywhere
The Beauty meets the Beast...
It's extreme power and performance, caged in a tuxedo suit. It's the Speed King itself... It's a dragon dressed in expensive Armani gear...
It's a car that just loves to say... All Your Hate... It Gives Me Luck...
Sub-Sub-Sub-Subzero... Number 3 in my personal Cool Wall...
The Beauty meets the Beast...
It's extreme power and performance, caged in a tuxedo suit. It's the Speed King itself... It's a dragon dressed in expensive Armani gear...
It's a car that just loves to say... All Your Hate... It Gives Me Luck...
Sub-Sub-Sub-Subzero... Number 3 in my personal Cool Wall...
- 11,127
- Bromley
- V16T91
- E0nLeader
I think HFS raises some great points.
I'm sorry, but I think it looks fine. And the Hennessey Exige isn't faster yet because they didn't do it right. That's just being a sore American, I'm afraid. And the fact is, young people want one because they know it's the fastest in the world. Obviously if you're their age and a car freak (i.e. me) you 'know better' but you and I wouldn't just say otherwise to their face because you and I would look pretty awkward then. The ownership list doesn't bother me because I do actually rate at least some of them.
Though I'd disagree on the Koenigsegg point. The 1-to-1 looks so impractical in its methods that I really rather like it. It's better than most hypercars in that it actually captures me.
I'm sorry, but I think it looks fine. And the Hennessey Exige isn't faster yet because they didn't do it right. That's just being a sore American, I'm afraid. And the fact is, young people want one because they know it's the fastest in the world. Obviously if you're their age and a car freak (i.e. me) you 'know better' but you and I wouldn't just say otherwise to their face because you and I would look pretty awkward then. The ownership list doesn't bother me because I do actually rate at least some of them.
Though I'd disagree on the Koenigsegg point. The 1-to-1 looks so impractical in its methods that I really rather like it. It's better than most hypercars in that it actually captures me.
- 456
- 'Murica
- spencer7x7
Cool for sure, how can a super fast iconic car not be cool?
- 15,460
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- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
You sound exactly like my friends.
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- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Impressive yes, but still compromised. It's far heavier than a pure sports car is, this shows in the handling (though I wish it was tested more). It's only average as far as [supercar] grip goes, and while easy to drive, it's a bit sluggish on curvy roads. This car does not do everything better than everything else. It does much well, but other than the top speed, it's not really record setting.
Well this a bit of bias on my part, as prefer performance orientated supercars. I'm not looking to understate the work done to make the car as it is, but in my view trying to make an ultra luxurious car that's also supposed to be at the top end of performance isn't really a higher goal than picking one or the other. Trying to have both is a challenge, but I see it as a self created one. You would get a better performance car by building a performance car and you would get a better luxury car by building a luxury car.
I wasn't aware that the engine was choosen for that reason. Is that primarily why that configuration was selected? Nearly everyone else settles for V-12's and while other cars may not aim to meet the same goals as the Veyron, most people expect a relatively comfy ride in their expensive cars. I might be overestimating what relative comfort means though, and come to think of it Bentley also uses the W arrangement so I guess there's some merit to it feeling noticeably different.
I'm not implying that the Veyron should be a Corvette, I'm saying I don't find the jack of all trades, super complex, design route cool, or at least the definition of cool. I definitely disagree with engineering being linked to needless complexity.
By being fast the wrong way.
- 40,740
Veyrons cost a mil and a quarter. That's, like, every Seville.
Plus when the regular one ended up with the 987 horsepower rating in the US, I remember Automobile (I think it was Ezra Dyer) asked about it and the response was kind of a "don't worry about it" wink, so each individual horsepower is probably a bit more special than those of typical other cars.
E28
Premium
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It's incredibly impressive, incredibly luxurious, and an engineering marvel that will go down in history. Or so everyone says. It'll probably be superseded by something even more compromised and expensive. But for now it'll be the hallmark of obscenely rich middle-eastern men, in a very VAG-package. It's a Golf disguised as a 1000hp, 260mph hyper-car.
The childish, excitable part of me that loves stuff like fighter jets or really big noisy things wants to vote it sub-zero, and the logical, slightly cynical part of me says 'Un-cool, it's the 4-wheeled epitome of a status symbol, 90% of them are probably in Dubai or the UAE, just buy a P1'. Meh. I think.
The childish, excitable part of me that loves stuff like fighter jets or really big noisy things wants to vote it sub-zero, and the logical, slightly cynical part of me says 'Un-cool, it's the 4-wheeled epitome of a status symbol, 90% of them are probably in Dubai or the UAE, just buy a P1'. Meh. I think.
I think niky summed it up best for me, and I agree with much of KinLM's post (#49).
I'll defend the Veyron's accomplishments and feat of engineering. It absolutely deserves the attention it gets, and its capabilities are underrated by most who dislike it. But to me it's a rolling list of Serious Uncoolness. It's hideous and not even in a remotely charming way. It's overweight and gaudy. It was arguably built expressly for the lamest form of performance -- going in a straight line -- to its detriment in other areas (of course that's not the only thing it's good at). On top of this, it's so all-around competent and well-engineered that it's lacking in character. Its dizzying specifications (and price) are about all that define it.
The Veyron embodies the heedless excess that defined high-performance cars during the past decade; it's like a sort of caricature of supercars. It's a rather pale replacement for the other widely famous "fastest car" that preceded it (at least the F1 can keep the title of "fastest car of the 20th century"). The F1 is/was pretty overrated itself, if you care about that as a factor of coolness. But depending on your tastes in terms of what matters in a car, next to the Veyron it's positively saintly.
I'll defend the Veyron's accomplishments and feat of engineering. It absolutely deserves the attention it gets, and its capabilities are underrated by most who dislike it. But to me it's a rolling list of Serious Uncoolness. It's hideous and not even in a remotely charming way. It's overweight and gaudy. It was arguably built expressly for the lamest form of performance -- going in a straight line -- to its detriment in other areas (of course that's not the only thing it's good at). On top of this, it's so all-around competent and well-engineered that it's lacking in character. Its dizzying specifications (and price) are about all that define it.
The Veyron embodies the heedless excess that defined high-performance cars during the past decade; it's like a sort of caricature of supercars. It's a rather pale replacement for the other widely famous "fastest car" that preceded it (at least the F1 can keep the title of "fastest car of the 20th century"). The F1 is/was pretty overrated itself, if you care about that as a factor of coolness. But depending on your tastes in terms of what matters in a car, next to the Veyron it's positively saintly.
- 7,599
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I can sort of agree with that. I don't consider the Veyron terribly memorable, it's doesn't stick out in my head like some other cars do. The same thing actually plagues some other cars that are more to my liking. Like the P1 of all things. Even if it lacked that dreadful electric motor. The Veyron is a cardboard box compared to the P1 though.
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VW probably use it as a tax dodge!
- 31,544
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- Dennisch
What's all this: it's a rich men's toy, and then defend the F1 as if it is an affordable car??
Both are rich men's toys. 1 build for racecar performance on the road and the other build for silly speeds in perfect luxury and daily driving in that same luxury.
Both are rich men's toys. 1 build for racecar performance on the road and the other build for silly speeds in perfect luxury and daily driving in that same luxury.
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- Murcie LP710
Tree'd by HFS:
And while yes those attributes are indeed very familiar for a VAG vehicle, even they are hard to implement on a vehicle with ~1000hp and 922 lb-ft, while also being simultaneously a luxury car, an extremely fast grand touring car and being able to pull 1.00g on a skidpad.
