GTP Cool Wall: 2005-2011 Bugatti Veyron EB 16.4

[Famine]

I actually like the Veyron, but I have a small handful of issues with it.

The first issue is that it's officially the fastest production car in the world. This is, I'm afraid, a fleeting achievement and, but for a short spell in the 80s where our ability to produce power exceeded our ability to keep it on the floor with tyre and aerodynamic technology of the time, it's increased pretty linearly since we first started caring in the 40s at about 2mph a year. Yes, this means we can expect a 300mph road car by 2024. At that point, the Veyron's other abilities might prove the difference as it is a pretty capable all rounder beyond just the top speed.

The second issue is the people who think it's absolutely the best car ever. These are amongst the most annoying people on the internet - joined by their brethren who think "x" (usually the Nissan GT-R or this week's most powerful Chevrolet Corvette) is absolutely the best car ever.

The third issue is the people who think it's absolutely the worst car ever, just some overrated pile of tosh that can only do top speed and it's big and heavy and OMG ONLY 1000HP FROM AN 8 LITRE W16 YOU CAN GET THAT FROM A TURBO LS7 (or indeed a 1.5 V6, but only for about twelve miles). These are also amongst the most annoying people on the internet - joined by their brethren who think "x" (usually the Nissan GT-R or this week's most powerful Chevrolet Corvette) is absolutely the worst car ever and just some overrated pile of tosh.


Ultimately, it's seriously uncool. It holds a pretty meaningless title and causes loads of internet arguments between annoying fannies. In 10 years when it no longer holds a pretty meaningless title or causes loads of internet arguments between annoying fannies, it'd be seriously uncool because it's a supercar.

 

[Danoff]

Sub Zero. I mostly agree with @Famine above except to say that it is one amazing machine. Best car ever? Probably not. Benchmark car? Yes. Looks good? Absolutely. Fast as hell? You bet. Refuses to sacrifice? Yes. Sub zero.

One of my several thresholds for sub zero is something along the lines of... if I pulled up to a fancy restaurant with this car would the valet park it by the front door?

 

[Exorcet]

Ultimately, it's seriously uncool. It holds a pretty meaningless title and causes loads of internet arguments between annoying fannies. In 10 years when it no longer holds a pretty meaningless title or causes loads of internet arguments between annoying fannies, it'd be seriously uncool because it's a supercar.

Ironically enough, while I don't really like the car or some of the praise it gets, I don't know if I'd consider the arguing over it a bad thing. It can be empty, annoying arguments, but it's not limited to that.

I really was curious when I asked a few posts back (replying to HFS's post, but I guess anyone can answer) why a 1000 hp car daily driver is a good thing. From how the post was phrased, it sounded like he thought you'd be wasting the car if you didn't use it day to day or at least occasionally for "normal" use. I kind of feel the opposite. Why would you bother with this if you didn't want to go 200+ somewhere (if you could find the space)?

 

[PeterJB]

Sub zero. It's iconic, it looks good, and it's fast.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

@Famine - You had me at "annoying fannies". I would change my vote to SU if I could.

 

[Joey D]

Seriously Uncool. I've never really liked the Veyron and I've always thought it looked like a streamlined cockroach. It's an impressive engineering feat, but the only people that can respect that are geeks and geeks aren't cool people. Also I feel going for the top speed record is like going for the Nurburgring record, it's only purpose is to allow people to argue over the internet while not having the slightest clue what or why they are arguing in the first place.

 

[White & Nerdy]

First things first, you're hereby thrown out of the GTP mafia book club of liberals who all agree on everything, we can't have you disagreeing with the consensus

I never said you agreed all the time. See below.

I think that's GTP's car nerd sampling bias at play here. In the general public this is a well known and famous car and is one of the ultimate wealth/status symbols. Kids say they want to grow up and have a Bugatti, rappers brag about having one, etc. "Bugatti" is the catch-all word for fast/expensive car in the way that Ferrari used to be. We're car nerds who know enough about the car to know that it's not quite as special as it's made out to be, so there's backlash against that.

You just made the point I tried and failed to make in the AZ-1 thread. I guess I just didn't have the words for it - but it's not collusion so much as it is coincidence. Somehow, perhaps due to being a forum centered around a video game about cars rather than a forum centered around cars, this place has managed to attract a large concentration of "progressive" (using the word in a semi-political sense here) car enthusiasts - the type who really would see an inline-3 hybrid as cooler than a V8, or see nothing wrong with My Little Pony having adult male fans. And I'm inclined to regard the typical GTP ideas of coolness as car/tech snobbery.

I think sampling bias is actually a good choice of words there. It's not like I know better than the "Car Intelligentsia" made up of people twice my age. They probably do "know better", but I'm inclined to doubt whether their superior knowledge/more mature perspective actually represents the population at large (the other problem is that even some Americans seem to hold, in these threads, more European-type ideas as to what makes a car cool and what a car should be). To that specific type of "mature" car person, supercars are uncool, because we know who their celebrity owners are, and that most of them will just gather dust in fancy garages, and we know about shortfalls that a less-knowledgeable person's romanticized image might not include. But I'm guessing a lot of people don't care about those things. They just think they're fast and good-looking, and they want one. You can't really crack on the Veyron, simply because it is, no matter how you slice it, one of the most desirable cars in recent memory. You can accuse it of lazy engineering, you can say only rich jerks drive them, you can say there are better hypercars, you can come right out and say it's uncool by reason of being an extreme display of wealth, but none of that really matters. This car is "WOW" on four wheels, in a way few other cars can be.

And that, I think, is the thing. You don't have to be an art critic to comprehend a car like this. It doesn't matter how overhyped it is, how many NFS fanboys and young kids like it, or what records it was built to break. It doesn't matter that the rear-end styling is odd or that the original version polled here can't into corners. This car is a showstopper, plain and simple.

Simply as an impressive amalgamation of excessive numbers, Sub Zero.

 

[Azure Flare]

 

[Famine]

annoying fannies

My Little Pony

Is that still A Thing now? I'd practically forgotten it existed. Good job there's dedicated fanatics like yourself keeping it alive.

Also not seeing how it's relevant to a Bugatti Veyron.

 

[TheCracker]

This car is "WOW" on four wheels, in a way few other cars can be.

And when someone makes a Wow Wall thread, I'm sure it will get sub zero.

 

[niky]

nothing wrong with My Little Pony having adult male fans

Do you remember there's a standing warning against ever bringing that subject up again?

Because, frankly, we're sick to death of hearing about it. Even the "bronies" have stopped talking about the show. Your fixation on the subject makes the board unpleasant to read for everyone.

Do not let it happen again.

-

And it's ironic that you bring that up while discussing the merits of a car made by a manufacturer that also sells women's handbags.

Not that I care, my vote would be the same, either way.

 

[Doog]

They Veyron received a high cool from me because it's one of those cars where everyone comes and looks when it appears. If something is that good to draw attention from so many people, it's cool; it's obviously doing something very right. The only other car I've observed this with is the Countach.

 

[Azure Flare]

Even the "bronies" have stopped talking about the show.

We do manage to keep it to the thread, but even that is running on a skeleton crew now.

On the subject of the Veyron...

It's like the TheFerrari, I don't think it's very cool, but if I ever saw one, I would take a few pictures. And given the opportunity, I would drive it. Not on a track, but a highway where I can really open it up would be suitable.

 

[Doodle]

@Doog explained it perfectly.

 

[Teal]

It's a big heavy turd. Uncool

 

[Joel]

You just made the point I tried and failed to make in the AZ-1 thread.

Hmm, no I don't think I did. The point about the car nerd sampling bias was the HFS was asking if young people really do like the Veyron as there's a lot of young people in this thread saying they hate it. I said that's because we're all more interested in cars on this site than the average person would be, and there's a lot of hate for the Veyron in car guy circles because it gets called the "best" when it isn't necessarily.

It has nothing to do with hippie liberal brony hybrid driving metrosexuals.

 

[Tyger]

The Veyron accomplished everything VW set out to do with it. Extreme numbers result in a car which successfully combines GT and hypercar, with all the refinements one would want for everyday use (something you seldom see in any cars which hit north of 200mph). It was never meant to be an out-and-out track weapon, though 14th on the Top Gear power lap board (6th for the SS) is a none too shabby showing on what is hardly a very open, fast track. Of course sheeple prefer to studiously ignore this and mumble "Because Veyron" and "Because Modern Bugatti" as if that means anything at all.

I also happen to like the styling (yikes! cars aren't supposed to look like that) and the two-tone paint jobs, which looked good on the Bugattis of yesteryear too.

So good and so successful that VW are making another one. Yay!

SZ.

 

[TheCracker]

I don't really get why people go on about the the Veyron's 'everyday usability' It has zero storage space. It's no more every day than a Gallardo or an Elise.

Anyone who can afford a Veyron will already have a fleet of other cars that can be used on a daily basis. Does it even have satnav?

 

[Tyger]

I don't really get why people go on about the the Veyron's 'everyday usability' It has zero storage space. It's no more every day than a Gallardo or an Elise.

Anyone who can afford a Veyron will already have a fleet of other cars that can be used on a daily basis.

More in terms of low-speed handling, and comfort, than storage space. An Elise can be used every day but can be snappy, and none too comfy over long periods of time.

 

[CTznOfTime]

If i own one, then cool
But since wealthy people have it, uncool

So i vote Meh

 

[TheCracker]

More in terms of low-speed handling, and comfort, than storage space. An Elise can be used every day but can be snappy, and none too comfy over long periods of time.

By all accounts, the Veyron is incredibly noisy at motorway speeds, difficult to get in and out of and has poor visibility, especially around the A-pillar.

 

[Wolfe]

...I'm inclined to doubt whether their superior knowledge/more mature perspective actually represents the population at large...

...I'm guessing a lot of people don't care about those things. They just think they're fast and good-looking, and they want one.

The thing is, there's no rule that you have to vote according to what the general population thinks. Some of us don't.

 

[homeforsummer]

I really was curious when I asked a few posts back (replying to HFS's post, but I guess anyone can answer) why a 1000 hp car daily driver is a good thing. From how the post was phrased, it sounded like he thought you'd be wasting the car if you didn't use it day to day or at least occasionally for "normal" use. I kind of feel the opposite. Why would you bother with this if you didn't want to go 200+ somewhere (if you could find the space)?

Sorry, missed this one before (can be the case when these threads move as quick as they do).

It's not so much the fact that you could use the thousand horsepower that makes it cool, as the fact it has it at all. 95% of the population probably don't use more than 50% of any car's capabilities - whether that's a Veyron's top speed, a Land Rover's wading ability or the fact you can bung a wardrobe in the back of a Volvo estate car.

But cars aren't particularly rational purchases as a whole. If they were, everyone would always buy the best car on the market, rather than buying the one they're most familiar with, the one whose dealership is closest, or the one they like the colour of the most.

A Veyron's top speed, a Land Rover's off-road ability and a Volvo's carrying capacity are all pretty irrelevant pursuits. But you might get tasters of them now and then - the Veyron's ability to accelerate like little else with four wheels; a chance encounter with a muddy field in a Land Rover; helping a son/daughter move to university with a Volvo full of crap. And when you do, you're glad of the upper ceiling of their abilities, even if you never get anywhere close to it.

The Veyron's appeal is that the upper ceiling is absolutely stratospheric, yet (fuel economy aside, I expect) it demands approximately zero compromises of you day-to-day. It's surprisingly compact, has a smooth gearbox and will trickle around without being obnoxiously loud, or uncomfortable, or recalcitrant. Going back to Rowan Atkinson piling up the miles in his McLaren, that car's performance for him is, according to interviews with him, a nice side-effect of a car that actually has very good luggage space and excellent visibility - the kind of characteristics you can really appreciate in a bog-standard road car, let alone one with a 600+ hp V12.

It would, I imagine, be a bit frustrating having a car with so much power that you're unable to use - but then I think that sometimes with cars with 200hp. I had a Peugeot 208 GTI in for a week last year and it was intensely irritating, because you could drive it hugely quickly on a country road, which meant you were forever coming up behind slower-moving vehicles, often with nowhere to overtake. Rendering the car's abilities and its power useless.

But at least in the Veyron, you're still in a luxurious, strikingly-styled vehicle when you're stuck behind other traffic. In the GTI, you're just in a 208. In a BMW M5, you're in a bog-standard 5-Series. In a Corvette, you're surrounded by plastics out of a Chevy Sonic (okay, the C7 is a little better).

TL;DR - Goes back to intangibles. The Veyron is a special car even if you aren't using 100% of its potential.

Somehow, perhaps due to being a forum centered around a video game about cars rather than a forum centered around cars, this place has managed to attract a large concentration of "progressive" (using the word in a semi-political sense here) car enthusiasts - the type who really would see an inline-3 hybrid as cooler than a V8, or see nothing wrong with My Little Pony having adult male fans. And I'm inclined to regard the typical GTP ideas of coolness as car/tech snobbery.

This may blow your mind, but I gave the thousand-horsepower Bugatti and the 63-horsepower Mazda with under a fifth the cylinders exactly the same rating: Cool.

I gave the Shelby GT-350 a sub-zero. And the Toyota Prius a SU rating.

The little stereotypes you build for members of this forum would be fine and dandy if they weren't built up out of mounds of utter, steaming, fly-infested bull-crap.

The one, single issue that has existed this whole while in the cool wall threads isn't the way in which people vote - since we're all car enthusiasts who happen to like different things here - it's your own completely screwed-up idea of how you view the world. It always has been, and it always will be.

Also, I find it absolutely hilarious you use the word "progressive" - by its nature, a positive word - as a kind of insult. I think that again says more about you than it does the other members of this forum.

 

[Exorcet]

Sorry, missed this one before (can be the case when these threads move as quick as they do).

No problem. I think I edited in the bit that quoted you, maybe I should have tagged you as well.

It's not so much the fact that you could use the thousand horsepower that makes it cool, as the fact it has it at all. 95% of the population probably don't use more than 50% of any car's capabilities - whether that's a Veyron's top speed, a Land Rover's wading ability or the fact you can bung a wardrobe in the back of a Volvo estate car.

OK, this makes it clearer, I was reading your post the wrong way.

But cars aren't particularly rational purchases as a whole. If they were, everyone would always buy the best car on the market, rather than buying the one they're most familiar with, the one whose dealership is closest, or the one they like the colour of the most.

Agreed. It's something that can make discussing them a bit tricky too as it can come down to a battle of preferences.

A Veyron's top speed, a Land Rover's off-road ability and a Volvo's carrying capacity are all pretty irrelevant pursuits. But you might get tasters of them now and then - the Veyron's ability to accelerate like little else with four wheels; a chance encounter with a muddy field in a Land Rover; helping a son/daughter move to university with a Volvo full of crap. And when you do, you're glad of the upper ceiling of their abilities, even if you never get anywhere close to it.

True. I'm tempted to argue though that the Veyron's speed is in a league of [in]accessibility beyond that of the other two, but that top speed, or rather what gives it that top speed, is the same stuff that gives it ridiculous acceleration and gearing long enough to get reasonable fuel economy on the street most likely. On top of that there are a few places where you could actually stretch the car's legs if you really wanted to.

The Veyron's appeal is that the upper ceiling is absolutely stratospheric, yet (fuel economy aside, I expect) it demands approximately zero compromises of you day-to-day. It's surprisingly compact, has a smooth gearbox and will trickle around without being obnoxiously loud, or uncomfortable, or recalcitrant. Going back to Rowan Atkinson piling up the miles in his McLaren, that car's performance for him is, according to interviews with him, a nice side-effect of a car that actually has very good luggage space and excellent visibility - the kind of characteristics you can really appreciate in a bog-standard road car, let alone one with a 600+ hp V12.

You could perhaps pin this down to a lack of first hand experience and maybe a bit less sensitivity that the average person, but I kind of wonder if the Veyron is that much better than everything else. The McLaren had the same sort of idea in mind, but it took a different approach. It was a bit more performance first, and that for me makes it a bit more likeable. That's not to say it's outright better as a dead fact, it's a subjective thing, but I wonder if the Veyron could have gone after more easily useable performance targets. Dropping the top speed goal would allow them to cut power a bit, which could go back into cooling and durability, which goes back to drag and weight which would allow the acceleration to stay about where it is now, but you might get even better performance on a twisty road or track. It's a weak argument, but it's perhaps a bit objective (and I'm not meaning to say I'm not arguing based on my preferences) in that those two places are more easily accessed than the Ehra-Lessien track. Conversely, cars like the McLaren P1, while they are a bit more based on performance, probably wouldn't be so bad to use day in and day out. Reviews I've read seem to suggest so. A counter point to all that though, is that 700+ hp super cars are so far up the performance ladder that they all drive the same unless you take a few laps with them everyday for 5 years, so it's moot that one weighs twice as much as the other. Although, if I could find the time I think I would try to go for that 5 year goal.

It would, I imagine, be a bit frustrating having a car with so much power that you're unable to use - but then I think that sometimes with cars with 200hp. I had a Peugeot 208 GTI in for a week last year and it was intensely irritating, because you could drive it hugely quickly on a country road, which meant you were forever coming up behind slower-moving vehicles, often with nowhere to overtake. Rendering the car's abilities and its power useless.

I can relate to that, as I've only got one car, and my rule is that getting to work or where ever I need to go takes precedence over going to the track. About all I can do is use merging with highway traffic as an excuse to shift down and give it more power. If (or rather when) I had a second car though, things would be very different. At least that's the intent.

But at least in the Veyron, you're still in a luxurious, strikingly-styled vehicle when you're stuck behind other traffic. In the GTI, you're just in a 208. In a BMW M5, you're in a bog-standard 5-Series. In a Corvette, you're surrounded by plastics out of a Chevy Sonic (okay, the C7 is a little better).

This is probably me again, but the most special feeling car I've ever sat in had no roof, doors, or any non rigid material in the seat. I've been in Bentley's, Lamborghini's, and high-end Mercedes (unfortunately none of them were in motion so I know I'm missing part of the experience) but it's was a lot harder for me to get excited over an expensive interior than a ridiculous chassis/engine combination. There's no doubt that what you said applied to most people. It might even apply to me if I do end up with a chance to really experience a car like the Veyron, but I just feel like public roads are too limiting a place to bring a really special car. I do like driving on the road, the first thing I did after buying a car was driving randomly without a plan just for the sake of it. I don't think I'd buy a for-fun car with the intent to limit it to that environment though, if that makes sense. The highest performance car that I've been in (sadly not driven) while it was on is a Corvette Z06. I can tell you that whatever I was sitting on, and however much I had to fold myself over to get in, was instantly forgotten when the driver accelerated through a tunnel and then slowed for the upcoming turn.

TL;DR - Goes back to intangibles. The Veyron is a special car even if you aren't using 100% of its potential.

Yes, though you could probably make a lot of arguments for what else is special. It's just the nature of the car in all its forms and the different mindsets they attract.

 

[White & Nerdy]

I've had similar thoughts in my beat-up Sunbrid, doesn't mean I'd want a slower car just to use more of its capabilities more often. This is for a few reasons.

1. Not everyone obeys posted limits all the time. Not even me, despite my usually-strong conscience in this area. Personally, I think the speed limits in most places are at least 10-15 MPH too slow, though if I drove tall, heavy cars more often (like most people, annoyingly) I might think them more appropriate. Or perhaps not, at least on the straigher roads - sitting high up with reduced feedback actually seems to dull the suspension of speed.

2. Coolness isn't about need, it's about want. You yourself seem to have covered this one pretty well.

3. It is, actually, the upper ceiling of capabilities that defines coolness. It doesn't matter that you can't floor it for more than a second without starring in an episode of "World's Wildest Police Chases", a car that can go fast is, all other things being equal, cooler than one that can't. Because the car that can go fast is more impressive, even if its capabilies remain largely out of reach most of the time.

 

[Danny]

A solid Sub Zero from me.

Absolute masterpiece of engineering. Divine inside and out and yet to fall into the weird bracket of cars that are 'cheap' enough for mainstream Premiership Footballer ownership.

 

[Famine]

Sunbrid

Imagine... a hybrid Sunbird.

 

[TheCracker]

Imagine... a hybrid Sunbird.

A small 600cc turbo diesel generator with battery/electric motors for urban driving. All wrapped up in that gorgeous coupe shape. Sounds like heaven to me.

 

[Grayfox]

Nothing but an overpriced, over powered, land titanic piece of crap.

 

[Doodle]

1. Not everyone obeys posted limits all the time. Not even me, despite my usually-strong conscience in this area. Personally, I think the speed limits in most places are at least 10-15 MPH too slow, though if I drove tall, heavy cars more often (like most people, annoyingly) I might think them more appropriate. Or perhaps not, at least on the straigher roads - sitting high up with reduced feedback actually seems to dull the suspension of speed.

I feel this way so much about a bunch of our roads.