GTP Cool Wall: 2015-2017 McLaren 675LT Coupé

[Snorevette]

Those are great points. I'm sure you're not implying that this car is drawing a crowd because it looks absurd and people are laughing at it though so... you lost me.

I'm not implying it draws a crowd because it looks absurd, more because it looks ostentatious in general, and there's plenty of people out there who will laugh at ostentatious stuff. The thing is, yes, there will be people who think that ostentatious cars are cool, but as a general rule the sort of people that like ostentatious cars are usually not cool people. Look at it this way - the sort of person that has the money and lack of taste to buy a gold-wrapped donk Camaro and show it off despite how much the modifications have ruined its handling is equally likely to be the sort of person to buy an expensive supercar and show it off without actually driving it to anywhere near its full potential.

 

[TexRex]

To be honest, I'm not sure why LT was added to the name. The car only got longer by 2cm at best compared to the 650S.

McLaren executive to other McLaren executives: "Hey, so you know how the F1 Long Tail is subject of countless motoring enthusiasts' wet dreams? Let's make a minor change to an existing model and give it a name to bring up thoughts of that iconic racing machine, and maybe we'll make more money."

 

[Snorevette]

McLaren executive to other McLaren executives: "Hey, so you know how the F1 Long Tail is subject of countless motoring enthusiasts' wet dreams? Let's make a minor change to an existing model and give it a name to bring up thoughts of that iconic racing machine, and maybe we'll make more money."

The LT stands for Lenient Truthfulness.

 

[Danoff]

If you're lost on the fact that something that draws a crowd doesn't automatically make it cool then I don't know what to tell you. Some of the most ugly cars at cars shows draw crowds too. Drawing crowds is not enough of a reason, as like I said, the stupidest things can draw crowds.

Except that's not your argument here... so... what are you talking about?

I'm not implying it draws a crowd because it looks absurd, more because it looks ostentatious in general, and there's plenty of people out there who will laugh at ostentatious stuff. The thing is, yes, there will be people who think that ostentatious cars are cool, but as a general rule the sort of people that like ostentatious cars are usually not cool people.

Were we talking about cars or their drivers? So... you're thinking this car might draw a crowd because it looks ostentatious, which causes people to laugh at it? Because... no.

Look at it this way - the sort of person that has the money and lack of taste to buy a gold-wrapped donk Camaro and show it off despite how much the modifications have ruined its handling is equally likely to be the sort of person to buy an expensive supercar and show it off without actually driving it to anywhere near its full potential.

That's... do you honestly believe that?

Expensive things Garner attention from the lot just because they're expensive.

It's easier for things to be cool when they're expensive - unobtainability enhances coolness.

I don't think the car is offensive, but I also don't think it's cool. I liked the MP4-12c the most to be honest, and that's probably why I tolerate the 650s, but this just seems unnecessary and lazy for the reasons posted above.

I don't know what reasons those are. Mostly it seems like you just don't like it... which is not the same thing as the car not being cool.

 

[TexRex]

unobtainability enhances coolness

 

[ImaRobot]

Except that's not your argument here... so... what are you talking about?

It's not my argument, that things that draw crowds doesn't automatically make it cool? Weird I could have sworn I said that somewhere.

It's easier for things to be cool when they're expensive - unobtainability enhances coolness.

Eh, for you maybe. Not me. Something out of my price range doesn't make it cool. In fact it's pretty uncool that I cant afford it, but that's not really related to this exactly, as that didn't sway my vote in either direction. Either way, things being stupidly expensive, just like drawing a crowd, doesn't automatically make something cool. If you want to associate it like that, that's all you. I choose not to as that just sounds absolutely ridiculous.

I don't know what reasons those are. Mostly it seems like you just don't like it... which is not the same thing as the car not being cool.

That's literally why I said "listed above". Scroll to my other post and use those eyeballs. Odd since you replied to it and all. Seems you're just too busy trying to disagree with everyone than to pay attention to what is actually said. At this point, it literally looks like

*you guys must be crazy to be able to have a different opinion than me!*

 

[Danoff]

It does. People want what they can't have. Rarity and exclusivity have been linked with "cool" since before "cool" was.

It's not my argument, that things that draw crowds doesn't automatically make it cool? Weird I could have sworn I said that somewhere.

Are you seriously not following this conversation? Your argument was that silly things can draw a crowd... except you won't say that the McLaren is silly. It's a non-sequitur.

Eh, for you maybe. Not me.

No, not for me. That's my entire point, what I like or want is not always consistent with what is cool.

If you want to associate it like that, that's all you. I choose not to as that just sounds absolutely ridiculous.

It's kinda in the word cool... not so much my association. I don't particularly want one of these cars, still voted sub-zero because how can you not?

Seems you're just too busy trying to disagree with everyone than to pay attention to what is actually said. At this point, it literally looks like

I'm reading all of it. Just not finding much that makes sense. Mostly what I see is people answering a completely different question than the one that was posed. The question that seems to be getting answered is "do you want to buy this car?". That's a long way from whether or not it is "cool".

 

[SlipZtrEm]

lol wut

Here's the top ten coolest cars from the GTP Wall's history:

• 1966-1972 Lamborghini Miura P400 1.903
  
• 1965-1967 Shelby/AC Cobra 427 1.845
  
• 1954-1957 Mercedes-Benz 300SL "Gullwing" 1.764
• 1963-1964 Ferrari 250 GT Lusso 1.758
• 1982-1986 (?) Lancia Rallye 037 Stradale 1.748
• 1967-1969 Alfa Romeo Tipe 33 Stradale 1.715
• 1994 McLaren F1 1.709
• 1957 Jaguar XKSS 1.679
• 1987-1992 Ferrari F40 1.659
• 1965-1969 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint 1600 GTA 1.641

Of those, only two hit four-digit production figures. Some didn't even crack three.

 

[Danoff]

Here's the top ten coolest cars from the GTP Wall's history:

• 1966-1972 Lamborghini Miura P400 1.903
  
• 1965-1967 Shelby/AC Cobra 427 1.845
  
• 1954-1957 Mercedes-Benz 300SL "Gullwing" 1.764
• 1963-1964 Ferrari 250 GT Lusso 1.758
• 1982-1986 (?) Lancia Rallye 037 Stradale 1.748
• 1967-1969 Alfa Romeo Tipe 33 Stradale 1.715
• 1994 McLaren F1 1.709
• 1957 Jaguar XKSS 1.679
• 1987-1992 Ferrari F40 1.659
• 1965-1969 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint 1600 GTA 1.641

Of those, only two hit four-digit production figures. Some didn't even crack three.

Along with low production figures, another common theme is that almost nobody can afford one.

 

[ImaRobot]

Are you seriously not following this conversation? Your argument was that silly things can draw a crowd... except you won't say that the McLaren is silly. It's a non-sequitur.

No it wasn't. It was that just because something draws a crowd, doesn't mean it's cool. That was an example, there will be lots of others, and many others will have different views. Something that you can't seem to grasp.

No, not for me. That's my entire point, what I like or want is not always consistent with what is cool.

To be honest, I always make my vote on my own opinion, rather than what other people find cool/not cool. I kind of thought that's what was the point here? To explain what is cool/uncool to you?

It's kinda in the word cool... not so much my association. I don't particularly want one of these cars, still voted sub-zero because how can you not?

It's really not, but still, if you want thats up to you. There are a good couple of reasons I have for this not even being cool, let alone subzero.

I'm reading all of it. Just not finding much that makes sense. Mostly what I see is people answering a completely different question than the one that was posed. The question that seems to be getting answered is "do you want to buy this car?". That's a long way from whether or not it is "cool".

Being able to buy this car or not came no where in my vote. I specifically wrote why I thought it was not a cool car.

Then since you can't seem to understand, I'll repeat. I like the Mp4-12c the most, out of Mclarens line up. I thought the P1 was interesting, and definitely unique. The 650s comes and I'm uncertain about it, but because it resembles the 12c, I don't entirely dislike it entirely, I still think its a bit cool, but not as much as the 12c. However, I feel at this iteration, they're starting to become a bit lazy. It almost looks like they copied the back of one car and pasted it to the front of another. Now we have the 675LT, which is supposed to apparently be the long-tail version like that of the F1, but apparently it's hardly any "longer." This one just seems absolutely unnecessary at this point, and continues the trend that I think they're being quite lazy with designing new models/cars.

Hell, I didn't even vote it uncool, yet here you are bombarding me because I didn't think it was cool enough. I'm surprised that you didn't go as far as to collect all the names that voted Meh and under, and start questioning them all. This is just all a bit extreme.

Along with low production figures, another common theme is that almost nobody can afford one.

I'd find it hard to believe that people weighed(and upvoted because of it) in price as why they thought it was cool. For me, price is not a determining factor in the voting process, nor is the crowd associated towards it. If it was, pretty much everything would be uncool.

 

[TexRex]

People want what they can't have.

That doesn't make them cool.

Rarity and exclusivity have been linked with "cool" since before "cool" was.

Now there's some logic.

Be honest; you're just pissy because you think something's cool and there are those who don't agree with you. Is this really the difference in beliefs you're choosing to beat to death when there are things going on in the world right now, motivated by a difference in belief, that are far more worthy of speaking out against? Buck up and accept that not everyone likes the same thing...jeez.

Here's the top ten coolest cars from the GTP Wall's history:

• 1966-1972 Lamborghini Miura P400 1.903
  
• 1965-1967 Shelby/AC Cobra 427 1.845
  
• 1954-1957 Mercedes-Benz 300SL "Gullwing" 1.764
• 1963-1964 Ferrari 250 GT Lusso 1.758
• 1982-1986 (?) Lancia Rallye 037 Stradale 1.748
• 1967-1969 Alfa Romeo Tipe 33 Stradale 1.715
• 1994 McLaren F1 1.709
• 1957 Jaguar XKSS 1.679
• 1987-1992 Ferrari F40 1.659
• 1965-1969 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint 1600 GTA 1.641

Of those, only two hit four-digit production figures. Some didn't even crack three.

And within each of those threads, the majority of individuals polled stated expressly that the rarity is what motivated their Cool/Sub-Zero vote?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You (and by that I mean anyone participating in this thread, because you (@Danoff) have assumed I was talking to you and got profoundly upset over things said, when those remarks were directed at others) vote, maybe announce to those reading the thread what that vote was, and maybe explain why you voted the way you did. Simple. There's no need to harangue someone whose opinion runs contrary to your own.

 

[Danoff]

No it wasn't. It was that just because something draws a crowd, doesn't mean it's cool. That was an example, there will be lots of others, and many others will have different views. Something that you can't seem to grasp.

Did you want to float one that has to do with this car? Or were you just musing with no actual point.

To be honest, I always make my vote on my own opinion, rather than what other people find cool/not cool. I kind of thought that's what was the point here? To explain what is cool/uncool to you?

I know. And I know that this is true of the way these threads are handled in general. That's not how the cool wall originated on Top Gear, and it's a really weird sampling if it's just about what you like. Why use the word "cool" if it's just your personal taste? "Cool" is a word the invokes a larger population than 1.

It's really not, but still, if you want thats up to you. There are a good couple of reasons I have for this not even being cool, let alone subzero.

Being able to buy this car or not came no where in my vote. I specifically wrote why I thought it was not a cool car.

Then since you can't seem to understand, I'll repeat. I like the Mp4-12c the most, out of Mclarens line up. I thought the P1 was interesting, and definitely unique. The 650s comes and I'm uncertain about it, but because it resembles the 12c, I don't entirely dislike it entirely, I still think its a bit cool, but not as much as the 12c. However, I feel at this iteration, they're starting to become a bit lazy. It almost looks like they copied the back of one car and pasted it to the front of another. Now we have the 675LT, which is supposed to apparently be the long-tail version like that of the F1, but apparently it's hardly any "longer." This one just seems absolutely unnecessary at this point, and continues the trend that I think they're being quite lazy with designing new models/cars.

Hell, I didn't even vote it uncool, yet here you are bombarding me because I didn't think it was cool enough.

I'm not bombarding you. We're having a conversation. If you don't want to have a conversation, this is a strange place to come. If you don't want to have a conversation with me, that's fine too, I don't tend to come back to people who don't respond. To be honest, I didn't really pay attention so much to how you voted or didn't vote as I did to what you were saying about it.

You have listed some reasons why you think other McLarens might be more desirable than this one, at least to you. I don't think that those can really, honestly, make something cool or not. For one, your reasons are not that well known to the general public. When a Ferrari drives past a schoolbus, the kids stare, and some of them might even hop seats to see it for an extra second. That's cool. It doesn't really matter if there is a cooler one. When you're at a track day amidst a sea of uninteresting (but fast) track cars and someone has something really special (like a McLaren), even people in the know come around to gawk. At a car show (which in the US is a lot of US classics and a heavy dose of corvettes), a McLaren (any McLaren) is a special event. It's something that people who know still come to gaze at with fascination.

When I was playing gran turismo back in the day I used to make fun of how parts of the Zonda looked. It was funny looking for sure, and I found it odd. When I saw one in person, and I have only ever seen one, I stopped and said to myself "that's a friggin zonda! in the wild!". I gawked, and was impressed. That's how you know a car is cool to others. Does someone want to capture the moment the saw one in a photo so they can tell their friends? Do grade-school kids run to keep looking at it for an extra second? Does someone who has mocked a car stop and savor the moment of just seeing one?

You're entitled to your opinion of course, I just don't understand it at all. I don't understand why any of what you said makes it "cool" or not. I understand why some of those things might make you want a different McLaren over this one.

I'd find it hard to believe that people weighed(and upvoted because of it) in price as why they thought it was cool. For me, price is not a determining factor in the voting process, nor is the crowd associated towards it. If it was, pretty much everything would be uncool.

That doesn't make them cool.

I don't think anyone likes anything just because it's expensive (well... ok, some people, but they're rare). Price is part of exclusivity, and rarity and exclusivity go hand in hand with items that are widely sought after and admired... pretty much throughout human history. People want it badly and there aren't many of them? Price goes up.

Now there's some logic.

Be honest; you're just pissy because you think something's cool and there are those who don't agree with you. Is this really the difference in beliefs you're choosing to beat to death when there are things going on in the world right now, motivated by a difference in belief, that are far more worthy of speaking out against? Buck up and accept that not everyone likes the same thing...jeez.

Oh I do. This thread isn't titled "do you like it?". And also, I speak up against those other worthy things too.

And within each of those threads, the majority of individuals polled stated expressly that the rarity is what motivated their Cool/Sub-Zero vote?

That's what's known as a false dilemma.

 

[AlvaroF]

I usually do this exercise: put yourself in the car and imagine you doing your daily errands. If you think you would look cool in it, the car is probably cool. If not, well, bad news, the car is not. Very few cars are actually that cool to make us look cool. The McLaren, despite of how much I like it is not one of those.

Uncool

 

[Snorevette]

I know. And I know that this is true of the way these threads are handled in general. That's not how the cool wall originated on Top Gear, and it's a really weird sampling if it's just about what you like. Why use the word "cool" if it's just your personal taste? "Cool" is a word the invokes a larger population than 1.

The Top Gear cool wall was based on how the presenters felt about them, though. Over the course of the show we saw the presenters eat photos so they couldn't be placed in uncool, use scissor lifts to place photos higher than anyone could ever reach, and take chainsaws to the wall itself just to remove a photo they didn't agree with. It's almost as if it originated as a light-hearted segment on a comedy show which was never meant to be taken entirely seriously, and when you convert it to a system where 50-odd people are deciding on the various cars there's always going to be an element of personal taste and opinion on what is and isn't cool.

In response to your earlier statement about how I can't seriously believe that wealthy people with very little taste buy loud, expensive supercars, yes, I do believe that. I'm not sure why you're so defensive that nobody could possibly think that's not a very cool image to have.

 

[ImaRobot]

Did you want to float one that has to do with this car? Or were you just musing with no actual point.

The point being that I don't think drawing crowds is reason enough for something to be cool, because lots of things can draw crowds. It's going to take more than that for me. I used extreme examples to demonstrate that.

I know. And I know that this is true of the way these threads are handled in general. That's not how the cool wall originated on Top Gear, and it's a really weird sampling if it's just about what you like. Why use the word "cool" if it's just your personal taste? "Cool" is a word the invokes a larger population than 1.

In this case it doesn't. I always have and always will take my own sole opinion on the matter when coming into these threads. That doesn't make it wrong, it just doesn't fall in line with how you want. Just like this thread and you calling out anyone that has a different viewpoint. I never will take into consideration what others think. I also won't take into consideration the crowds associated with some vehicles, because I'm judging the car, not the drivers. There's no way you can tell someone how they can vote, and that seems to be an issue with you for some reason. Cool doesn't invoke anything like that in my opinion, and that would depend on if you're talking about what you think is cool or what you think a lot of people think is cool. I myself and posting my personal opinion on the matter, so when I say cool, I'm only talking about what is cool to me.

I'm not bombarding you. We're having a conversation. If you don't want to have a conversation, this is a strange place to come. If you don't want to have a conversation with me, that's fine too, I don't tend to come back to people who don't respond. To be honest, I didn't really pay attention so much to how you voted or didn't vote as I did to what you were saying about it.

Maybe bombarding is the wrong word, but I'm just confused as to why you're taking it as far as you're taking it. I didn't know this warranted this much of a discussion around it, or that someone not liking something can bother you so much.

You have listed some reasons why you think other McLarens might be more desirable than this one, at least to you. I don't think that those can really, honestly, make something cool or not. For one, your reasons are not that well known to the general public. When a Ferrari drives past a schoolbus, the kids stare, and some of them might even hop seats to see it for an extra second. That's cool. It doesn't really matter if there is a cooler one. When you're at a track day amidst a sea of uninteresting (but fast) track cars and someone has something really special (like a McLaren), even people in the know come around to gawk. At a car show (which in the US is a lot of US classics and a heavy dose of corvettes), a McLaren (any McLaren) is a special event. It's something that people who know still come to gaze at with fascination.

I listed Mclarens that I thought where unique, in turn, uniqueness is a way for something to be cool to me. Then I listed why I thought this one falls off that train of thought, making it Meh in my eyes. The 650s is the limit for me as it is different enough I suppose, but I fail to see the need for this one. It seems unnecessary and lazy, to be honest. When a fast loud car drives by a school bus, people will look regardless. It's not even the car because I'd bet the majority of those kids don't even know what they're looking at. Sure they might think it's cool, but the amount of cars that they'd likely do that to are probably up there.

You're right, it doesn't matter if there is a cooler one, and I've never said that. I've listed why I thought two other cars where cool, but when it came to this one, it just feels really lazy with how they chopped two cars and seemingly put them together. It just doesn't sit well with me, and that will bring it's image down, in my opinion. As for the track day, I take more joy in seeing those less interesting vehicles doing fast-car things, seeing how they're modified, and seeing them do things they have no right to do. That is cool to me. I do agree that a Mclaren will garner attention, and that people probably think its cool, and I do think some are cool as well. I just don't think this one is.

I go to car shows, and I live in the US, and I have to tell you that what you just said is far from the truth for me. That may be true for your area, but over here in Southern California, the vast majority of car meets have a good chunk of literally everything. Cars like these pop out very often, and that may be why I don't see it in such a high light like you do. While they're not exactly common like the every day Mustang, I do tend to see a good fair amount of "special" cars every single day. So much so that I got much more excitement out of the Fiat X1/9 that I saw this weekend compared to the BMW i8's that I see many times a day.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, I just don't understand it at all. I don't understand why any of what you said makes it "cool" or not. I understand why some of those things might make you want a different McLaren over this one

I think it's a lazy attempt here, something that follow suit with their design language with some cars. Laziness is not cool to me. I can understand if I came in and said "this car comes in grey, uncool" but I'm seriously having a hard time understanding how you're sitting here trying to invalidate a point like this.

I'll make you a deal. You keep your vote as cool, and I'll keep mine at meh, because I don't think it's a cool car. It's an utterly useless iteration that fails to do what the LT literally stands for.

This reminds me of.. Well.. Every single situation with White n nerdy on the cool wall.

 

[Danoff]

The Top Gear cool wall was based on how the presenters felt about them, though. Over the course of the show we saw the presenters eat photos so they couldn't be placed in uncool, use scissor lifts to place photos higher than anyone could ever reach, and take chainsaws to the wall itself just to remove a photo they didn't agree with. It's almost as if it originated as a light-hearted segment on a comedy show which was never meant to be taken entirely seriously, and when you convert it to a system where 50-odd people are deciding on the various cars there's always going to be an element of personal taste and opinion on what is and isn't cool.

It actually was originally based on what other people thought. In particular, Kristin Scott Thomas.

In response to your earlier statement about how I can't seriously believe that wealthy people with very little taste buy loud, expensive supercars, yes, I do believe that. I'm not sure why you're so defensive that nobody could possibly think that's not a very cool image to have.

That wasn't the question I posed.

The point being that I don't think drawing crowds is reason enough for something to be cool, because lots of things can draw crowds. It's going to take more than that for me. I used extreme examples to demonstrate that.

So that's a "no" then?

In this case it doesn't. I always have and always will take my own sole opinion on the matter when coming into these threads. That doesn't make it wrong, it just doesn't fall in line with how you want.

Just like this thread and you calling out anyone that has a different viewpoint. I never will take into consideration what others think. I also won't take into consideration the crowds associated with some vehicles, because I'm judging the car, not the drivers. There's no way you can tell someone how they can vote, and that seems to be an issue with you for some reason. Cool doesn't invoke anything like that in my opinion, and that would depend on if you're talking about what you think is cool or what you think a lot of people think is cool. I myself and posting my personal opinion on the matter, so when I say cool, I'm only talking about what is cool to me.

It's interesting... this is actually you refusing to acknowledge the opinions of others. You you're not willing to come here and recognize that a car is cool if you don't personally like it it seems. I don't personally want one, yet I realize that it is cool in general. Yet I'm the one who can't accept the opinions of others?

Maybe bombarding is the wrong word, but I'm just confused as to why you're taking it as far as you're taking it. I didn't know this warranted this much of a discussion around it, or that someone not liking something can bother you so much.

It's not a matter of it bothering me. When I see people saying things that directly contradict my interpretation of the world I confront them about it. Sometimes it results in me learning and changing my viewpoint. Most of the time I'm disappointed with the reasons I hear. I engage in these conversations for personal growth.

I listed Mclarens that I thought where unique, in turn, uniqueness is a way for something to be cool to me. Then I listed why I thought this one falls off that train of thought, making it Meh in my eyes. The 650s is the limit for me as it is different enough I suppose, but I fail to see the need for this one. It seems unnecessary and lazy, to be honest. When a fast loud car drives by a school bus, people will look regardless. It's not even the car because I'd bet the majority of those kids don't even know what they're looking at. Sure they might think it's cool, but the amount of cars that they'd likely do that to are probably up there.

...I do agree that a Mclaren will garner attention, and that people probably think its cool, and I do think some are cool as well. I just don't think this one is.

So... you voted that the car is less than cool, despite knowing that it is perceived as a cool car, because... Danoff can't accept the opinions of others? I don't like the movie Pulp Fiction. But I would not say that movie is uncool. I don't like a lot of things that are cool. But I find it odd to try to enforce my own viewpoint on what is ultimately a social cultural evaluation. Pulp Fiction is a cool movie. I really dislike it. Those are not inconsistent statements for me to make. It is, on the otherhand, inconsistent to say that you think people perceive something as being cool, and yet say that you don't think it is. That's all cool is, perception. If it is socially perceived as cool (even if you don't like it), then it is. You're misusing the word cool to mean your personal preference.

I'll make you a deal. You keep your vote as cool, and I'll keep mine at meh, because I don't think it's a cool car.

...and yet you do (bolded above). Keep your vote, I'm not interested in changing your vote.

 

[ImaRobot]

It's interesting... this is actually you refusing to acknowledge the opinions of others. You you're not willing to come here and recognize that a car is cool if you don't personally like it it seems. I don't personally want one, yet I realize that it is cool in general. Yet I'm the one who can't accept the opinions of others?

I'm not though, I acknowledge that people think they are cool. I'm just not taking it into consideration when posting my view on the car. Yes, you quite are the one not willing to accept others views. You act as if I'm the one that came in and questioned everyone that thought the car was cool. News flash, I didn't. I'm not disagreeing with everyone that thinks its cool, more so, specifically you because you pulled me into it. That in no way means I'm not accepting that people like it or thinks its cool. Far from it actually.

It's not a matter of it bothering me. When I see people saying things that directly contradict my interpretation of the world I confront them about it. Sometimes it results in me learning and changing my viewpoint. Most of the time I'm disappointed with the reasons I hear. I engage in these conversations for personal growth.

That's just it though, no one is contradicting you per se. They just posted they're opinion, and you went off on a whim to bring every single person in that didn't share the same thought. Why you're disappointed I have no idea, how you're saying that it doesn't bother you, yet go on to say you're disappointed seems a bit contradictory. I'm engaging in this conversation because I'm willing to, but to be honest, you're over-aggressiveness is a bit off-putting when discussing something generally unimportant. I can understand if this were politics, but I'm just unsure of why you're putting forth so much emotion over something as simple as not liking the same car as you.

So... you voted that the car is not cool, despite knowing that it is perceived as a cool car, because

Yes, because it's my personal opinion that it's not a cool car, so that other people think it's cool has absolutely no baring on the discussion. That's just you trying to force that as if theres some correlation in my post. There isn't.

Danoff can't accept the opinions of others? I don't like the movie Pulp Fiction. But I would not say that movie is uncool.

Nice of you to point that out. You can very well think that, and that's fine. I have no issue with it either way. I thought it was an ok movie, personally.

But I find it odd to try to enforce my own viewpoint on what is ultimately a social cultural evaluation

Mine isn't based on that, more so my own personal opinion, if I haven't made that clear enough already.

It is, on the otherhand, inconsistent to say that you think people perceive something as being cool, and yet say that you don't think it is

No, it's really not. I have no idea how that's a hard concept to grasp.

You're misusing the word cool to mean your personal preference.

ironic.

...and yet you do (bolded above). Keep your vote, I'm not interested in changing your vote.

Do I think there is a Mclaren out there that is cool? Certainly. This one is definitely not it though. For something you're not interested in, you seem very interested. Odd how that works out.

Long story short, it's not contradicting anything to think something isn't cool, even though someone else does. It's absurd to think otherwise.

 

[Pagey279]

It actually was originally based on what other people thought. In particular, Kristin Scott Thomas.

Out of interest what would do you think Kristin would say about the McLaren?

 

[Danoff]

I'm not though, I acknowledge that people think they are cool. I'm just not taking it into consideration when posting my view on the car. Yes, you quite are the one not willing to accept others views. You act as if I'm the one that came in and questioned everyone that thought the car was cool. News flash, I didn't. I'm not disagreeing with everyone that thinks its cool, more so, specifically you because you pulled me into it. That in no way means I'm not accepting that people like it or thinks its cool. Far from it actually.

Mine isn't based on that, more so my own personal opinion, if I haven't made that clear enough already.

Hypothetical scenario, the general public thinks it's cool, you don't, you'd say... what? Uncool right? I think I've read your posts correctly. Who is refusing to acknowledge the opinions of others in that instance?

how you're saying that it doesn't bother you, yet go on to say you're disappointed seems a bit contradictory... putting forth so much emotion

You're reading in emotion that isn't there. Baffled, yes.

Do I think there is a Mclaren out there that is cool? Certainly. This one is definitely not it though. For something you're not interested in, you seem very interested. Odd how that works out.

Long story short, it's not contradicting anything to think something isn't cool, even though someone else does. It's absurd to think otherwise.

You're shutting down here. That's fine, I think we've gone around enough.

Out of interest what would do you think Kristin would say about the McLaren?

Well I don't necessarily hold myself to Clarkson's specific example, I'm more adhering to the general idea of impressing a girl, or people. Specifically I don't know, I have to admit that I don't even know who that is. But... if one were to argue back that she thinks it's not a cool car, I suppose I'd have to change my vote or something.

 

[ImaRobot]

Hypothetical scenario, the general public thinks it's cool, you don't, you'd say... what? Uncool right?

You'd have a point if I was saying that the public doesn't think it's cool. I'm not, however. I'm using my one singular opinion, mine and only mine, pointing out that it's only mine, and describing why I voted that way, regardless of what people think. This is my opinion of the car. I'm voting in a way that is very much allowed here, regardless of how you want to associate it, but please stop pushing it like that as its a bit disrespectful to keep insinuating that. This view is solely mine, and not how I thin people may view it. I know, I'm the minority.

And no, not uncool. It's also not cool either.

Who is refusing to acknowledge the opinions of others in that instance?

You.

You're reading in emotion that isn't there. Baffled, yes.

You're portraying a lot of emotion. I wouldn't have perceived it if you didn't put forth the effort to make it look that way. Over-eagerness to jump onto anyone that doesn't share a viewpoint, outright disregarding someones personal opinion because it doesn't line up to what you think the masses think, general lack of subjectiveness, and overly aggressive on a subject that doesn't really need it. Although that might have stemmed from the jab I made, jokingly. If so, I apologize.

You're shutting down here. That's fine, I think we've gone around enough.

Well yeah, that's because this isn't much of a discussion as you seem unwilling to accept that I don't think the car is cool. Open yourself to others opinion, just a little bit, there was no need for you to steer the discussion into such negativity. I always thought you were a bit more respectful than that, even though I never had an experience with you before.

 

[Danoff]

You'd have a point if I was saying that the public doesn't think it's cool. I'm not, however. I'm using my one singular opinion, mine and only mine, pointing out that it's only mine, and describing why I voted that way, regardless of what people think. This is my opinion of the car. I'm voting in a way that is very much allowed here, regardless of how you want to associate it, but please stop pushing it like that as its a bit disrespectful to keep insinuating that. This view is solely mine, and not how I thin people may view it. I know, I'm the minority.

You.

What? I'm not even in the hypothetical? Now you're just cheating.

You're portraying a lot of emotion. I wouldn't have perceived it if you didn't put forth the effort to make it look that way. Over-eagerness to jump onto anyone that doesn't share a viewpoint, outright disregarding someones personal opinion because it doesn't line up to what you think the masses think, general lack of subjectiveness, and overly aggressive on a subject that doesn't really need it. Although that might have stemmed from the jab I made, jokingly.

Ok, well I'm telling you it's not there. I do still think you guys are out of your friggin' minds though.

Well yeah, that's because this isn't much of a discussion as you seem unwilling to accept that I don't think the car is cool.

...because you said yourself that you think it is. It's confusing.

Open yourself to others opinion, just a little bit,

That's what I'm saying to you.

 

[ImaRobot]

Ok, well I'm telling you it's not there. I do still think you guys are out of your friggin' minds though.

That's fine, it's the internet. We're all a little crazy.

...because you said yourself that you think it is. It's confusing.

I've not once said it was a cool car. I did, however, say the MP4-12c definitely is.

That's what I'm saying to you.

That's the thing though, I've accepted yours, and everyone here. Did I quote mine the thread and gather all opinions opposite of mine to tell them they're crazy? If I did, I'd have to get all votes over, and under Meh. That's a lot of people.

 

[Danoff]

I've not once said it was a cool car. I did, however, say the MP4-12c definitely is.

Gah, just when I thought we were getting somewhere. So when you said this:

I do agree that a Mclaren will garner attention, and that people probably think its cool, and I do think some are cool as well. I just don't think this one is.

You didn't mean this particular McLaren? Because you used the word "its" in one part of the sentence and "some" in another part. You see why I got confused. So your position is that the general public would not think this car is cool?

 

[McLaren]

Shmee owned one. Uncool.

I voted cool, read your comment afterwards, and realized, "Dammit, he's got a point". Now I have to accept the new Ford GT is no longer cool, either.

 

[ImaRobot]

You didn't mean this particular McLaren? Because you used the word "its" in one part of the sentence and "some" in another part. You see why I got confused. So your position is that the general public would not think this car is cool?

I'm not sure how you're seeing it that way, at all, to be honest. I'm pointing out that people may very well think it's a cool car. But in my personal opinion? I don't. It's all I've said since the beginning, when you brought public opinion into it. I've not changed it one bit, or insinuated anything else. That's why I ended it with "I just don't think this one is."

 

[Danoff]

I'm not sure how you're seeing it that way, at all, to be honest. I'm pointing out that people may very well think it's a cool car. But in my personal opinion? I don't. It's all I've said since the beginning, when you brought public opinion into it. I've not changed it one bit, or insinuated anything else. That's why I ended it with "I just don't think this one is."

So you think it's cool (ie: "people may very well think it's a cool car") and you think it's not (ie: "I don't"). What you mean when you say this is that it's cool, and you don't like it.

 

[ImaRobot]

So you think it's cool (ie: "people may very well think it's a cool car") and you think it's not (ie: "I don't"). What you mean when you say this is that it's cool, and you don't like it.

To be honest, I'm at a loss of how you're constantly misinterpreting it. Whether that's intentional or not, it's hard to tell. I'm at a loss at how you can be so confused.

People thinking it's cool does not reflect my opinion at all. Me acknowledging that is just acknowledging that someone very well likes the car. What I mean is literally right there. People think its cool(even going off the votes here, people think its cool), I just don't.

 

[Danoff]

People think its cool(even going off the votes here, people think its cool), I just don't.

If people think it is cool (and I mean enough people to be culturally significant), then it is.

 

[ImaRobot]

If people think it is cool (and I mean enough people to be culturally significant), then it is.

Yeah, if people think it's cool, than to them it's cool. But why doesn't that work for me? If I don't think it's cool, than it's not cool to me. More people thinking its cool doesn't automatically make it cool to me. So you yourself are saying it, so again, I'm at a loss of your misunderstanding. You're trying really hard to contort my words, and for someone that says that the emotion that I thought was there, isn't, it's really odd thing to do.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Well, at least the Cool Wall ends going out just the way we remember it.