GTP Cool Wall: Dodge Neon SRT-4

[CyborgGT]

this car was cool when it was new. Then College Students started driving them, and now with teens, It's slipping past "meh" into the "uncool" slot.

This. I love it as a car, but just look at the tools that drive them. Uncool.

 

[GT_Prologue5]

This. I love it as a car, but just look at the tools that drive them. Uncool.

Am I a tool if I drove one in GT4?

At the top of my browsers page it says "head gasket repair". Maybe an ode to Nicksfix post.

 

[niky]

C'mon, they had to class the 165-hp Civic Si in with the 135-hp SOHC Neon, because the barely 150-hp DOHC Neon was taking the Civic's lunch money. AND they had to allow the Civic extra, non-stock parts to boot!

Don't know what series he's in, but a guy on another site says they've finally amended the rules to give the twin-cam Neon less of a handicap than it did before. He should run away with his class this year.

-

Seriously torn.

On one hand, it's a Neon.

On the other hand, it's incredibly fast.

On one hand, it's a butt-ugly Neon.

On the other hand, it's incredibly, mind-bogglingly fast.

And I do like the weird looks.

But it's still a Chrysler...

Still:

Seriously uncool. No matter how fast it is, it cannot outrun ugly, and it definitely cannot outrun being a Neon.

Sorry, Duke. I do like the car... but...

 

[Cano]

I'll second this. In ACR form, it's just shy of sub-zero. Typical owners be damned.

[edit]

Other than the "typical owner" factor, I will just never understand the unexplained hatred for Neons. Nobody hates, say, a Focus or a Corolla with the automatic disdain and vitriol that Neons get.

Neons (particularly the first generation) are dirt cheap, zippy and willing to drive hard, highly reliable with even a modicum of maintenance, handle spectacularly for a FWD car...

This, altough "typicall ownerage" has never been an issue here, Neons remain one of the best cars you can buy for the money. I (ok, my family) owned a first and a second gen, I learned to drive a stick in the first one, a rare 5 speed model, and it was a blatantly good car, and with the obsessive maintenance of my dad it could practically last forever... but he sold it long before I was a good enough a driver to drive it any hard.

Then we got the red second gen (which I managed to put into a post on crhistmass eve one time) which was also a very good car, but it felt cheaper compared to the first one. We never had any problems with both (noob driver aside, ahem...) but my dad had to sell it again. great experience having owned both cars, and I wasn't even fully aware at the time of what made a good car. I'd rock one even today... if I could find a good one, that is.

speaking of the SRT4, I have been shotgun in my fair share, from low mileage bone stock to 550whp and gutted for track duty, and I was really impressed by the torque the things generated, the engine really felt bigger... and of course Mexico City being 2+ kilometers above sea level, they kick so much ass here. If you drive well you can handle an LS1 car it's ass on a plate with one. Start tinkering with it and you can drive around with 450-500 hp on the stock bottom end!!!

Their only real problem in stock trim are the brakes but heck, for street use, even the cheapest Wilwood upgrade will do wonders. And over here they don't get riced out, most of them actually get the full track or drag treatment, but frankly even if they did I wouldn't care, they are very cool cars for what they can do at the cost they do it.

I wouldn't own one, tough. Well, I don't know. If one crossed my path at the right time...

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'd rock this:

 

[astrosdude91]

I'd rock this:

A red X? To each his own, I guess.

Edit: It's showing up for me now.

 

[Tornado]

It shows up for me.

 

[Cano]

without the headlamp stickers, yeah.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Well, yeah. No stickers, no wing, side exit exhaust. 👍

 

[Vince_Fiero]

With Neon, I had trouble staying out of uncool.
Looking at it, I came to Meh.
Looking at the specs, I ended up just on the cool side.

A cool Neon, still can not believe I stated that! But I stand with my decision.

 

[Duke]

With Neon, I had trouble staying out of uncool.

A cool Neon, still can not believe I stated that!

But that's what I'm asking - Why is it automatically hard to believe a Neon could be cool, just because it's a Neon? In my 15 years of being involved with the little monsters, nobody has ever managed to explain that. They just act like it's obviously the law that Neons suck.

 

[Famine]

The problem in Europe for the Neon is what else was available in that sector.

We got one model - a £14k, 2 litre, 130hp family car, capable of 0-60mph in 11-12s (manual vs. auto), about 120mph and 32mpg. Reviews generally praised the equipment levels, but damned the interior quality, space, ride and handling.

In terms of size, engine size and price, the Neon found itself up against... pretty much everything. Over the course of its European life, we had the Seat Leon, the Skoda Fabia, the BINI, the Peugeot 306 and 307, the Citroen Xsara and C4, the Alfa Romeo 147, FIAT Grande Punto, the EP and FN Honda Civic - and that's without even mentioning the big guns of Mazda 3, Vauxhall/Opel Astra and Ford Focus Mk1 and Mk2. In fact, for the price, you could get a 1.8 Mk3 Mondeo which would do everything better and was in a class above.

For the money you'd often find the Neon might out-spec something but be slower, or be quicker and less well-specced. It only outhandled the Astra - but no matter how bad Vauxhall make their cars handle, they're consistently in the top 5. No fleet manager would specify a Neon over an Astra, for example. Personally I'd rather have a Neon than an Astra, but that's relatively irrelevant.

Ultimately, in Europe, the Neon was a poor car. Not necessarily because it was a poor car, but because most of the competition was better built, better handling, rode better, had more space, better specced or cheaper - commonly hitting at least four of those. And a pretty bland-looker for our tastes. Its lack of any distinguishing features made it a very unpopular choice - which meant it also depreciated like a rock glued to a lump hammer.

For us, at least, it's uncool by dint of existing. I can't speak for North America though.

 

[Duke]

Well, the same was exactly true in America, except the Neon out-handled and out-accelerated damn near everything else available in its price class, and while everybody loves to complain about the Neon's interior quality (or lack thereof), I've ridden in and driven practically all of its contemporary competition and the Neon never struck me as notably worse than any others, even the vaunted Corolla.

In the US, the Neon was up against:

• Civic - which was more expensive but did offer somewhat better quality and spec, less power, equivalent handling
  
• Corolla - Way more boring in all ways, more expensive, no better spec or build quality, less power, less handling, though in the mid-90's Toyotas actually were reliable
  
• Sentra - Same as the Corolla except in SE-R trim, which was a worthy vehicle
  
• Cavalier - In all ways worse than the Neon except for power, at the same price point
  
• Focus (US) - Not a bad car but not terribly fun to drive in any normal trim until the SVT appeared

The two Neons I owned were quite quick for a NA 4-cylinder (0-60 in well under 11 seconds, even the one with the ATX), handled better than anything else FWD short of an Integra, had a similar interior and didn't ride any worse than anything in its price class, and had enough interior room to carry a family of 4 plus 2 bags of karate equipment with no problem.

Styling is styling, which is subjective, and frankly I suspect that nearly everybody that doesn't like the car reacts to it on that level and then imagines a bunch of other shortcomings to rationalize that.

[edit]

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy, because the Neon definitely had shortcomings. It was a PITA to work on in many ways, and it was no luxury vehicle, but again, it was no worse than the competition in those things. It's just that 90% of the bad things people say about it are either patently untrue or overstated dramatically, and ultimately boil down to the automatic assumption that since it's a Neon it sucks by definition.

 

[CodeRedR51]

They just act like it's obviously the law that Neons suck.

I know.

 

[Famine]

Well, the same was exactly true in America, except the Neon out-handled and out-accelerated damn near everything else available in its price class, and while everybody loves to complain about the Neon's interior quality (or lack thereof), I've ridden in and driven practically all of its contemporary competition and the Neon never struck me as notably worse than any others, even the vaunted Corolla.

Oddly, I struck the Corolla off the "competitors" list originally, because the Corolla really is a grey buy - bought exclusively by the "older driver". But then it occurred that I'd never actually seen a Neon not being driven by an "older driver" either.

It's a commonly-held stereotype that older people aren't that bothered by nice interiors, lots of toys, performance or fuel economy (after all, when you only drive to the supermarket every Thursday, you aren't going to notice spending £7 a month on gas instead of £6.20). And that might also explain the lack of success for the Neon - it was let down by ride quality and its big plus point was irrelevant to the buyers.

That and it was sold at Chrysler/Jeep dealerships. Not many of those about compared to Toyota...

I don't mean to sound like a fanboy

*changes username*

I imagine that the Neon wasn't priced at $24k in the US - which would be the equivalent price it was sold at in Europe - and in more than one version. We got no choice and it was priced up so it had to compete against everything (except the Golf and Audi A3, which are more premium options that anything on my previous list) and it just didn't have anything new or anything significantly better to bring to the game.

If available in the US, the C4, Leon, Punto and 147 (and formerly the 307 and Xsara) would sell like Felicium to the Ornarans.

 

[Bones Brigade]

Cool.

If you're 20-22 and live at home.

Or if you go to high school and think you're "too cool for school."

Also, if you wear sports memorbilia out to dinner.

So basically, absolutely, devastatingly, uncool.



Edit**

This poll has got me thinking, 24 people currently think this car is uncool in some form or another. Yet 19 think it is cool in some form. How are these polls tallied before they are put up on the wall?

 

[Lucas]

I'd rock this:

*Neon pic*

This just closed the deal for me. I was going to vote Cool, but after seeing that pic...

Uncool.

 

[Danoff]

Voted uncool.

I love neons. The neon was one of the first cars I ever really had a blast driving - and so it will always have a special place in my heart. I also happen to like the way they look. So you'd think I'd side with Duke and vote cool.

Unfortunately I don't see anything "cool" about this car. I see a great car, one I'd probably enjoy driving, but not one I'd expect to contribute to my "coolness". I don't see neons on the road and automatically think to myself "hey, cool car". I think "hey, cheap car." It says to me "I just got out of college and needed a cheap car that wasn't going to fall apart and I happened to pick a car that Dan likes, but it was pure coincidence because what I really wanted was a Volkswagen Beetle".

This is not the first time I voted "uncool" for a car that I actually really like. I just turns out that I like some uncool things. I'm ok with that.

(also, it doesn't help that both of my sisters drive neons)

Edit:

To be fair, I'd vote uncool on the Civic Si with a very similar explanation. I like the civic a lot, it has a special place in my heart, but it doesn't confer coolness.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

But that's what I'm asking - Why is it automatically hard to believe a Neon could be cool, just because it's a Neon? In my 15 years of being involved with the little monsters, nobody has ever managed to explain that. They just act like it's obviously the law that Neons suck.

plain econobox = uncool

It's the American Corolla.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Cool.

If you're 20-22 and live at home.

Or if you go to high school and think you're "too cool for school."

Also, if you wear sports memorbilia out to dinner.

So basically, absolutely, devastatingly, uncool.

Stereotype much?

This just closed the deal for me. I was going to vote Cool, but after seeing that pic...

Uncool.

I went through 20 pages in the Orange Blast thread on the SRT forums before I even remotely found a car owned by someone with good taste. If I still had mine, it would probably be the best looking SRT-4 in the country.

The concept of this car IMO makes it cool. Who cares if it's a "Neon" (OMG!) or front wheel drive, it's an economy car on steroids. Given the performance figures for the price, it's practically unbeatable.

 

[Danoff]

Given the performance figures for the price, it's practically unbeatable.

That doesn't make it cool, that makes it awesome. There is a difference. I think Starcraft 2 is awesome, but I don't think it makes me cool (and if you played it, I wouldn't think you were cool for playing it either).

 

[Duke]

plain econobox = uncool

It's the American Corolla.

Except there is an extra-special depth of public hatred for Neons in a certain branch of the enthusiast community (those who would rather street race or talk about racing rather than actually go racing in a sanctioned event).

The Civic, Sentra, and Focus are all plain econoboxes too, but the backwards-hat crowd loves Civics and doesn't get all snotty about Sentras or Foci. It's just the Neon that get the instant disdain.

 

[Famine]

Except there is an extra-special depth of public hatred for Neons in a certain branch of the enthusiast community (those who would rather street race or talk about racing rather than actually go racing in a sanctioned event).

The Civic, Sentra, and Focus are all plain econoboxes too, but the backwards-hat crowd loves Civics and doesn't get all snotty about Sentras or Foci. It's just the Neon that get the instant disdain.

Ah, I'm afraid there is a simple answer to that.

Street-racing four-bangers is all about the imports and sticking it to Detroit and their overblown, live-axled behemoths. Civics, Sentras and even Focuseseses (Ford Europe) are imports - but the Neon is not. Doesn't matter whether it does it better or not.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Uncool by a large margin....

I'm sorry, but I still think too many people don't fully understand what makes something "cool". Nothing to do with HP, track times, 0-60, or any of that.

It's a Neon, and like all Neons before it, it's not very attractive, and not many people would know that you have something that isn't just another run-of-the-mill Neon.

Any time you have to explain to people why your car is cool, it just isn't.

Great car, but speaking as a mechanic that has worked on a fair amount of Neons (and other Dodge vehicles), reliable they are certainly not. Horrible to work on as well (like a lot of modern Dodges).

No one ever came into the shop and said "wow, that's a Neon..... Cool".

The only thing about that car, that's even remotely interesting is the engine, in my opinion.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Guess I'm the only person in the world that says "Oooo SRT-4" when I see one. Of course I am the kind of person that would be crazy enough to sell a $250,000 Ferrari if one was given to me for free, so I could buy one of these and a few other "uncool" cars.

 

[motortrend]

It's a great good car, but it's a neon, and I find neons very uncool.

 

[Tornado]

The problem in Europe for the Neon is what else was available in that sector.

We got one model - a £14k, 2 litre, 130hp family car, capable of 0-60mph in 11-12s (manual vs. auto), about 120mph and 32mpg. Reviews generally praised the equipment levels, but damned the interior quality, space, ride and handling.

Am I correct in assuming that you only ever got the 130 horse engine?

It's the American Corolla.

It was the American Civic. The distinction may seem minor (and as far as this thread is concerned, it is pretty irrelevant), but it is quite important.

Ah, I'm afraid there is a simple answer to that.

Street-racing four-bangers is all about the imports and sticking it to Detroit and their overblown, live-axled behemoths. Civics, Sentras and even Focuseseses (Ford Europe) are imports - but the Neon is not. Doesn't matter whether it does it better or not.

I've always felt that. Mind you, our family has owned Mopar compacts for as long as I've lived (Mom owned a Shadow Turbo, and replaced it with a Shadow V6 in 1994, and dad owned a Neon ACR for 15 years), but it has always annoyed be that because the Neon wasn't JDM tight, yo, that it was somehow crap.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

UNCOOL-> This is the American's version of the douche-mobile. Most people (here in Vegas) who drives these capable cars think that they're on top of the world; thinking they can beat a Viper's, Supra's , Vette's, 'Stang Cobra's, Bimmer's, V-Dub's, Evo's, STI's, DSM's, Aero TT's, & Veyron Super Sports.

-> And they like to bully ANY car. These guys are even worse compared to F-body drivers!

 

[McLaren]

They very well could beat a STi, Evo, BMW, VW, or DSM if built right. As others have mentioned, these cars have a lot of potential.

 

[Tornado]

And they could beat the earlier, "300HP" pre-Terminator Cobras without that much trouble either.