GTP Cool Wall : Nissan GT-R VOTE!

[Jim Prower]

What I've learned:

1: apparently, I'm an idiot among the members of this board for liking this car.
2: People on this board think that because a car is popular with the masses, it cannot be cool. (Pavarotti Syndrome)

Here's a quote from another board that kind of explains what I mean. the main subject is the famed "Flying Scotsman" locomotive, but could easily be applied to the GT-R.

I think there is a simple reason for the "overrated" remarks and I shall be frank about it. I suspect it all boils down to snobbery. Subconscious, perhaps, for most of us, but still snobbery. We are all serious railway enthusiasts. We know more about trains than the average man on the street

Flying Scotsman is the most popular engine with the public, therefore the enthusiasts say she's overrated and start talking about what are, to Mr. Joseph Public Esq., obscure classes. Can any of us really imagine a non-enthusiast dancing with unbridled excitement upon hearing that a "West Country Class" will be passing through their local station?

It's the same with other things as well. Ask an average person why they like a novel, and they'll tell you it's because it has a good plot. Ask a student of literature or a critic, and they will tell you they like it because of the "socialist allegory, the juxtaposition between the protagonist's social background and the setting, and the use of subtle homoerotic imagery in the description of the courtroom scenes."

Look at Opera. Luciano Pavarotti was hailed as one of the finest tenors in human history and he brought the joys of opera to millions of people. Yet there were "serious" Opera buffs who couldn't stand him, because he was performing "popular snippets" and "pandering to the masses" - comments which speak volumes, really.

I think railway enthusiasts fall into the same trap, from time to time. I think we're blinded at times by our own "superior knowledge" in the subject matter, when compared to the average person. A lot of people will, I have no doubt, disagree with what I have said, but I do think it is the root of a lot of anti-Scotsman sentiments

Now, I can't say I'm completely clean, here, either. Search my screenname and "Ferrari" sometime, or for that matter, Audi R8. I think we all get tired of hearing about something over and over, and then those of us who actually, genuinely like the car get cheesed off, and a debate erupts. Does go to show a person's true colors, though, eh?

 

[Famine]

What I've learned:

1: apparently, I'm an idiot among the members of this board for liking this car.
2: People on this board think that because a car is popular with the masses, it cannot be cool. (Pavarotti Syndrome)

Really?

It doesn't matter whether you like it or not. Like the earlier thread for the XJ220, I like the car but it's just not cool.

As it is in this case. I like the car, but it's a SEVENTY THOUSAND POUND NISSAN. And there's no way you can explain what it is that makes it worth the money without sounding like the most boring man on the planet. And this makes it uncool.

No mention of the car's popularity...

Damn those British and their currency that has the same name as a measurement unit!

Perhaps that's why they moved to the metric system!

We haven't moved to the metric system...

 

[Jim Prower]

Famine, It's not so much you but other people's comments on the car. and, still I feel like an idiot for liking something so many people hate. I feel the same way about liking a certain female character from a certain videogame series involving anthropomorphic characters flying starfighters.

 

[///M-Spec]

Jim, the only fix to that problem is to care a hell of a lot less about what other people think. Especially in a thread that centers on something as superficial as 'coolness'. Take the thread for what it's worth and don't get worked up about it.


M

 

[Famine]

Best way is not to give a rat's ass what other people think about what you like.

Or go the Clarkson/May/Hammond route - any car you actually like enough to purchase with your own money = Uncool. Seriously uncool if you actually buy one.

 

[buickgnx88]

We haven't moved to the metric system...

And the confusion continues...

 

[Jim Prower]

That's hard for me to do.

However, if I went the TG crew's route, I'd have voted "Uncool." I actually would like to look at a used '09, in all seriousness, depending on how well I get paid when I start working full-time, and how bad the depreciation is on these cars. Given the limited number, that may not be as much as I hope.

 

[Famine]

And the confusion continues...

Especially when you note that your US Imperial measurements are occasionally different to our Imperial measurements...

 

[buickgnx88]

And I'm going to be an engineer...crap

 

[Azuremen]

And I'm going to be an engineer...crap

Its okay, I am to. No one really cares about the British version of the units, except the British. And even if they proved they aren't a bankrupt rock in the North Atlantic, no one really cares about their gallons, or stones, or that stuff.

And yes, I just realized Famine was talking about the price of the car as well, not the weight

Any front wheel drive sedan has a lot of blows against it immediately. And Nissan is making things worse for itself by pushing CVTs more and more. Not to mention every Nissan on the market looks like ass right now, except maybe, just maybe, the 370Z.

The NSX at least looked cool, and was quick in its time without a bunch of silly computers, and quite reliable. It was also MR, revved to a fairly nice RPM for the day, and so on.

The GT-R has always been a nerd's car. Computers, AWD, twin turbos, heavy, designed to make up for driver error, and looking rather bland. The only people that have ever thought they are cool are Grand Turismo fanboys and street racers/ricers. The current GT-R is just the same. It looks bland and much like any other Nissan.

 

[Speedster502]

Easy decision for me. As much as I do like the car for what it is, and it is an improvement from previous GT-R's and I do love the fact Nissan is trying to take the GTR away from the tuner zone which is good in my own opinion, but it's just not cool.

However, that doesn't neccessarily make it "Cool". Firstly, as many other people have pointed out, it is a Nissan. Now for anyone living in the United Kingdom who doesn't know about cars or has little knowledge, it means Micra's, Notes, Qashqai's, Muranos, Navaras and Primeras. Now, to me none of those cars are cool, infact they are far, far from it. My family, actually has two Nissans. We have a old Micra (Uncool) and a 2004 Primera, both are uncool. So basically thats already one nail in the coffin of the GTR. Nissans just aren't cool.

Secondly, it's packed full of technology. Whats bad about that you may be asking? Well, think about it like this if you picked up your girlfriend in the GTR and she asked what those dials were on the screen and you had to explain that they measured your G-Force and other things like that, do you think that's cool? Unless you have a girlfriend who is seriously into that stuff then no, it isn't. Is it cool to explain that the programme telling you how much G-Force your pulling is designed by PD? I think not.

Don't get me wrong I do like this car, I believe it was over hyped but that wasn't Nissan's fault. The car is good, or so I've heard. It's just not cool though, it's the same as other technologically stuffed cars coming from some what uncool manufacturers. Anyway, thats my opinion on the whole GTR situation.

 

[Jim Prower]

The only people that have ever thought they are cool are Grand Turismo fanboys and street racers/ricers.

I take offense to that remark.

 

[Tornado]

And yes, I just realized Famine was talking about the price of the car as well, not the weight

I even alluded to the required 3000GT joke!

 

[Azuremen]

I take offense to that remark.

But it is pretty much the truth. Most anyone I see that is really into GT-Rs is either a video game car buff or some street racer that thinks an R34 will waste a ZO6. A C6 ZO6. Very few actual car guys like them because they are a huge dilution of what driving is suppose to be - you and a car. Not you talking to a bunch of computers that talk to the car for you, and change what you say because the computers think they have a better idea of what you want to do.

 

[homeforsummer]

(correct me if I'm wrong, but they've only made 2 RWD models since the Renault 5 Turbo, and they were both Clios).

*Cough*

*Cough*

 

[Tornado]

Not you talking to a bunch of computers that talk to the car for you, and change what you say because the computers think they have a better idea of what you want to do.

This wasn't that much of an issue on the pre-R35 cars. As I understand it, most of those systems simply that raised the car's limits. The R34 was always a darling of a car in British publications. Besides, the previous Evo was essentially the same thing (trick mechanical handling bits rather than computers), and car guys seem to love that car.

 

[Jim Prower]

But it is pretty much the truth. Most anyone I see that is really into GT-Rs is either a video game car buff or some street racer that thinks an R34 will waste a ZO6. A C6 ZO6. Very few actual car guys like them because they are a huge dilution of what driving is suppose to be - you and a car. Not you talking to a bunch of computers that talk to the car for you, and change what you say because the computers think they have a better idea of what you want to do.

Still, you called me a Ricer/fanboy. It's the principle of the thing. So, I like the car, that automatically makes me a 12 year old who likes videogames and "the fast and the furious" movies?

Yes, I can see your point of the car being "impure," but it still doesn't sit well with me.

I want an apology.

 

[Azuremen]

Still, you called me a Ricer/fanboy. It's the principle of the thing. So, I like the car, that automatically makes me a 12 year old who likes videogames and "the fast and the furious" movies?

Yes, I can see your point of the car being "impure," but it still doesn't sit well with me.

I want an apology.

Sorry, you'll have to find that elsewhere you assumptive one. I said most the second time around because I was exaggerating when I said all. Apparently though, you took me commenting on the general fans of the GT-R as a personal attack on you, despite it being a general statement. It is comparable to someone saying "Miatas are for gay male nurses" and me, being that l like Miatas, concluding they are calling me a homo-sexual male nurse. And I am neither a nurse nor a homosexual.

In short, grow up.

 

[Jim Prower]

Fah, you caught me in a bad mood.

 

[Giancarlo]

But it is pretty much the truth. Most anyone I see that is really into GT-Rs is either a video game car buff or some street racer that thinks an R34 will waste a ZO6. A C6 ZO6. Very few actual car guys like them because they are a huge dilution of what driving is suppose to be - you and a car. Not you talking to a bunch of computers that talk to the car for you, and change what you say because the computers think they have a better idea of what you want to do.

Why call a car uncool because a certain fan base might enjoy it? Besides, the Skyline existed for decades before "ricer" was ever even coined. I don't think you're being very fair to the car.

I mean, what are you really basing that statement on anyway? It just seems strange that you'd claim maturity when you're striking up a belief based on, essentially, nothing. You said so yourself; a similar claim is that "[Most] Miatas are for gay etc. etc." I've heard that too. Putting the prejudice in the comment aside for a moment - so that you just have the sheer generality of it - wouldn't someone saying that upset you as a Miata fan?

 

[Azuremen]

Why call a car uncool because a certain fan base might enjoy it? Besides, the Skyline existed for decades before "ricer" was ever even coined. I don't think you're being very fair to the car.

I mean, what are you really basing that statement on anyway? It just seems strange that you'd claim maturity when you're striking up a belief based on, essentially, nothing. You said so yourself; a similar claim is that "[Most] Miatas are for gay etc. etc." I've heard that too. Putting the prejudice in the comment aside for a moment - so that you just have the sheer generality of it - wouldn't someone saying that upset you as a Miata fan?

No, because their opinion is based on something entirely different than what I base mine on. I look at the purity of the roadster that the Miata is, instead of the stereotype image.

The GT-R however, appeals to me on virtually no levels. It is heavy, AWD, loved by ricers and video game nerds, impossibly complex now, run by computers, ugly, expensive, and from what I've read, pretty dull below 8/10ths. Sure, it is fast, but it won't be fun just driving around in normal conditions.

I was basically telling Jim that he shouldn't take offense because of what my opinion of the car, or much of its fanbase seems to be. Just like I don't take offense at when people call the MX-5 or MR-S "gay people" cars. Now, if they said they handle poorly or such, I'd would have to bring up that both cars pull nice figures on pads and braking and such. But I'm also not saying the GT-R is slow or poor handling.

But "cool" is a highly subjective thing, and I listed my reasons for why I feel it is uncool.

 

[niky]

Nissan = Uncool.

So sayeth the Mazda driver.

But then, Mazda has a whole lot more cool in it than Nissan does, nowadays...

Nissan has been making Skylines and Z's for awhile too... most of them are considered "interesting" and not so much old peoples cars...

Nissan has always had some kind of sportiness in their brand.

Skylines themselves = taxis. The Skyline GT-R was cool because it was a taxi-special chopped up and reassembled as a sportscar... just like the original Mitsubishi Evolutions. This new GT-R is a grounds-up sportscar, which makes the sheer ugliness of it rather inexcusable.

I still voted it as cool... simply because the negatives against it aren't really the car's fault... except for being uselessly ugly... which keeps it from being sub-zero

On a side note I love it when Americans bring suspension into play when 2 iconic modern American sports cars have controversial enough suspension as it is but many will defend it to the end.

Controversial =/= bad. Just as over-hyped =/= no good.

And yeah... who mentioned suspension?

 

[Prosthetic]

Who said Taxi's = uncool? A certain car wants to disagree...


RAWR! FORD DISAGREES!!!

 

[Famine]

So sayeth the Mazda driver.

Or go the Clarkson/May/Hammond route - any car you actually like enough to purchase with your own money = Uncool. Seriously uncool if you actually buy one.

But then, Mazda has a whole lot more cool in it than Nissan does, nowadays...

Yes - Mazda have very effectively shaken off the dull Japanese image in the same way Nissan and Honda haven't. I think they've managed to do this by marketing the entire brand around an affordable fun car (the MX-5/Roadster/Miata), by having a range of utterly bizarre engines (Wankel, Renesis, a 1.8 V6) and by cementing a reputation for building every car so that it's enjoyable to drive.

And they did all this without breaking £30k for a car...

 

[Jay]

Skylines themselves = taxis.

Taxi's? Maybe R31 and prior (minus the nicer models like 2000RS, GTR etc), but R32 onwards they have been sport coupes and sedans mostly, atleast half with very competent turbo engines, large 4 piston brakes, high speed based 4 wheel steering and in later forms closing in on the GTR's (Nissan stopped making GTS4 turbos after R32 for that very reason).


But even the older ones (pre R32) were known for thier sporty/premium side, except Australian local made R31's, most of them were boring sedans.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

And they did all this without breaking £30k for a car...

And without a bike/recreational section like Honda.

And without renaming themselves for other markets.

 

[Casio]

And without renaming themselves for other markets.

Eunos.

 

[Famine]

That was their own market...

 

[Casio]

That was their own market...

Eunos was sold in Australia from 1992 to 1997. The 30X, 500 and 800.

 

[Famine]

Feh. Australia counts as JDM kinda.

Odd selection of cars they sold under the "brand" though. MX-5s (Eunos Roadster), MX-3s (Eunos Presso/30X), Xedos 6 (Eunos 500), Xedos 9/Millennia (Eunos 800), Eunos Cosmo (errr)... Not exactly a common theme there.