GTP NASCAR Nationwide Series 2 - Provisionally Off

[Niop]

👎 to cape ring

Agreed.

I think Fuji Gt would be a good Watkins glen type of track.

 

[MustangRyan]

Agreed.

I think Fuji Gt would be a good Watkins glen type of track.

Not the current version, but the 80's and 90's versions of Fuji from GT4.

 

[Niop]

Not the current version, but the 80's and 90's versions of Fuji from GT4.

I'm not familiar with the older versions, so I'll have to take your word for it.

 

[MustangRyan]

I'm not familiar with the older versions, so I'll have to take your word for it.

If you have never played anything before GT5, allow me to share some previous Gran Turismo franchise tracks with you.


Fuji, 80's version, a very simple, high-speed road course. The run from the exit of turn 4 to the entrance of turn 1 (1:35 to 2:25 in the video) would be EPIC in NASCARs.





Fuji, 90's version. This is much more like Watkins Glen, with the presence of the Chicane between turns 5 and 6. You'll also see that turn 2 is much sharper and slower than the 80's version.





I mistakenly called this the Motorland short course earlier, but it's actually called The Beginner Course. This would be our Martinsville, but with a chicane.





Here's the version of Infineon that NASCAR uses now, without the run down the hill and back up the drag strip, known as the "Stock Car" Course:





Here's the version of Infineon that NASCAR used to run, back in the 90's, the "Sports Car" Course:





Here's the Twin Ring Motegi Superspeedway course, where NASCAR has held off-season exhibitions before in real life. If this course is added via DLC, this is where we will hold our Southern 300 and one more race in the Chase.





And, one of my favorite original courses from GT4, Apricot Hill. This track was just fun to race, especially in the sweeping back-and-forth esses.





Finally, the greatest original course ever developed by PD, Red Rock Valley Speedway. It could only be found on GT2 for PS1, and hasn't been seen since. I would pay $20 for just this track, in a modern HD rendering.

 

[Müle]

Apricot Hill was awesome.

 

[kenkwilinski]

Chqr, you can list me in here: "Full-Time Nationwide Entries"

And I like the schedule so far. I think you should lower the 60 lap race at Daytona to 40 laps. You should definitly keep Monza despite the corner cutting. Plus Monza looks like it's a permanent fixture in the SC, so probably best to have it replicated here in NW to help build experience. I think if get Motegi Oval we should do two races there, so we have some type of short track program. And if we don't get Motegi replace with some road courses instead of more Daytona or boring SSRX.

I would also like to see another road course added in addition to that. Overall, I would like there to be 12 races in the schedule. The balance of the schedule so far is 7 Oval races (incl Motegi) and 3 Road Courses. So I would like to see 7 or 8 Oval Races (incl 1 or 2 Motegi races). And I would like 4-5 Road Courses, keep Monza, Suzuka East and High Speed Ring. Add Fuji GT, LeMans or Indy Road with the option of one of these three courses to replace a Motegi race (if we get it). If we don't get Motegi, I would replace it with a Road Course over another Daytona or SSRX race. I wouldn't mind if it was replaced with a third Indy race. If we don't get Motegi I would like to do probably 10-11 races instead of 12 to keep the balance of Road vs Oval without being redundant on the Oval Program.

 

[rustyMercedes]

red rock valley! Totally forgot about that track. Apricot Hill was great.

One of my favorites that I'd like to see is special stage route 11

Oh, and can we (I mean everyone in the world, not just this forum) please call it Sears Point and not "Infineon", its kind of like calling Chelsea: "Samsung" or Arsenal: "Fly Emirates"

 

[Müle]

But up until a few weeks ago, it was actually called Infineon. Now it's just Sonoma.

 

[Niop]

I still call it Sears Point.

 

[Matty]

red rock valley! Totally forgot about that track. Apricot Hill was great.

One of my favorites that I'd like to see is special stage route 11

Oh, and can we (I mean everyone in the world, not just this forum) please call it Sears Point and not "Infineon", its kind of like calling Chelsea: "Samsung" or Arsenal: "Fly Emirates"

Or Laguna Seca "Mazda Raceway"

Think thats a slightly better example

 

[gorsad]

Chqr, you can list me in here: "Full-Time Nationwide Entries"

And I like the schedule so far. I think you should lower the 60 lap race at Daytona to 40 laps. You should definitly keep Monza despite the corner cutting. Plus Monza looks like it's a permanent fixture in the SC, so probably best to have it replicated here in NW to help build experience. I think if get Motegi Oval we should do two races there, so we have some type of short track program. And if we don't get Motegi replace with some road courses instead of more Daytona or boring SSRX.

I would also like to see another road course added in addition to that. Overall, I would like there to be 12 races in the schedule. The balance of the schedule so far is 7 Oval races (incl Motegi) and 3 Road Courses. So I would like to see 7 or 8 Oval Races (incl 1 or 2 Motegi races). And I would like 4-5 Road Courses, keep Monza, Suzuka East and High Speed Ring. Add Fuji GT, LeMans or Indy Road with the option of one of these three courses to replace a Motegi race (if we get it). If we don't get Motegi, I would replace it with a Road Course over another Daytona or SSRX race. I wouldn't mind if it was replaced with a third Indy race. If we don't get Motegi I would like to do probably 10-11 races instead of 12 to keep the balance of Road vs Oval without being redundant on the Oval Program.

Me like 👍

 

[The Bman]

My schedule would go like this:

1. Daytona Oval - 120 laps
2. SSRX - 8 laps
3. High Speed Ring - 40 laps
4. Indy Oval - 60 laps
5. Grand Valley East - 35 laps
6. Daytona Oval - 60 laps
7. Fuji Speedway GT - 30 laps
8. Motegi Oval - 70 laps (If not Motegi, SSRX - 6 laps)
9. Suzuka East - 40 laps
10. Indy Oval - 80 laps

(This list isn't final.)

With a schedule like this, we would have 6 oval races and 4 road course races.

 

[cgr-10]

My schedule would go like this:

1. Daytona Oval - 120 laps
2. SSRX - 8 laps
3. High Speed Ring - 40 laps
4. Indy Oval - 60 laps
5. Laguna Seca - 35 laps
6. Daytona Oval - 70 laps
7. Fuji Speedway GT - 30 laps
8. Motegi Oval - 70 laps (If not Motegi, SSRX - 6 laps)
9. Suzuka East - 40 laps
10. Indy Oval - 80 laps

I'd go with this; keep the other Daytona race at 70 laps and add Laguna Seca to the schedule.

How did Madrid go down last season?

 

[kenkwilinski]

So I'm watching Droptop's Fuji Videos and I just realized that Fuji GT 80's has the exact same layout on the map as High Speed Ring in Reverse. With the difference being the subtle elevations in Fuji and the High Banking throughout High Speed Ring. Thought that was kinda funny and I would share that with you.

Also after watching the Fuji 80's & 90's I was wondering why you feel it has to be the 80's or 90's track and can't be the currnet GT track GT5 has to offer? I think the latest version of the track we have is a little more technical. And the 80's & 90's versions are more flatout fun but like I said above, it's High Speed Ring in Reverse without the Banking. So, I think we should really just add the current GT layout we have in GT5.

Now since I'm talking about track selection and we seem to be on the topic of that here's my list:

1. Daytona 120 laps
2. Indy 60 laps
3. Monza NC 20 laps
4. SSRX 6 laps
5. Suzuka East 50 laps
6. Daytona 40 laps
7. Motegi 100 laps / Indy Road 40 laps
8. Autumn Ring Mini Reverse 100 laps
9. Fuji GT 40 laps / Motegi 75 laps
10. High Speed Ring 40 laps
11. Daytona 70 laps
12. Indy 80 laps

Thats 7 Ovals (with one Motegi or possibly 8 with 2 Motegi Races) (6 Super Speedways / 1-2 short tracks) & 5 Road Courses ( with an option for 6 if we don't get Motegi or less (4) if we do two Motegi races) (3-5 Road Courses / 1 short track(Aut Ring Mini)).

So we can think of the schedule more of a lower series and add a short track division. And if we decide on 12 races or ten, if we decide ten over twelve I would drop a race from the Super Speedway program and the Road Course program (then eliminate Indy Road from my list- I like Fuji GT over Indy Rd.).

It would be 5-6 Super Speedway Races(Oval) / 1-2 Short Track Races / 4 Road Course Races(Road). I would push for one less Daytona Race and add a short track. We can do a preseason race at Daytona and two exhibition races, one at Daytona and the other at SSRX. And if we did that we would have at least 3 short track races for S2.

What I consider as a short track is a track that is less than 1 mile and lap times have to be less than 40sec. If a road course is slightly over a mile but lap times are at 1min or above 50sec I would consider that only as a Road Course.

Actually if we do get Motegi, I think that course should be the "bread and butter" of this series instead of Daytona. Maybe for S3 switch the balance towards more short tracks. Like 4 short tracks/3 speedways/3 road courses. This would give more integrity to this series.

Droptop & Chqr please take some consideration into adding a TRUE Short Track Program for NW.

 

[cgr-10]

I forgot to put Monza on my schedule but I agree that should be kept anyway.

For a short track, I think Madrid Mini would be slightly more appropriate than Autumn Ring Mini since it has more characteristics of an oval.

 

[Knelly]

And Madrid was a great race to watch last season

 

[kenkwilinski]

I forgot to put Monza on my schedule but I agree that should be kept anyway.

For a short track, I think Madrid Mini would be slightly more appropriate than Autumn Ring Mini since it has more characteristics of an oval.

I understand the characteristic part but I mean what it is physically not the asthetics of the track. Madrid Mini is over a Mile long and Lap times are around a minute. Think of a short track, those lap times are faster than Indy and Daytona. See we need to think smaller size, whether or not it turns left or right and about the actual lap time. Because short tracks have lap times from 20-40sec. And Speedways are usually 40-50sec. Road Courses 1-2min. This why I push for Autumn Ring Mini Reverse, it's perfect for this. Madrid is fun too, but I think thats a road course according to my definition. Well maybe someone can answer this.....whats a lap time at Madrid Mini and whats the length of the track?

 

[cgr-10]

1. Daytona Oval - 120 laps
2. Indy Oval - 60 laps
3. Monza - 20 laps
4. SSRX - 8 laps
5. High Speed Ring - 40 laps
6. Laguna Seca - 35 laps
7. Daytona Oval - 70 laps
8. Fuji Speedway GT - 30 laps
9. Madrid Mini - 50 laps
10. Motegi Oval - 70 laps (If not Motegi, Drop the round off the calendar)
11. Suzuka East - 40 laps
12. Indy Oval - 80 laps

The issue with Autumn Ring is it's nothing like a short track, it's a road course. Madrid is like a narrow, shorter version of Pocono. Lap times were under 50 seconds IIRC and it's a much more interesting track, T2 requires a lot of commitment.

 

[kenkwilinski]

1. Daytona Oval - 120 laps
2. Indy Oval - 60 laps
3. Monza - 20 laps
4. SSRX - 8 laps
5. High Speed Ring - 40 laps
6. Laguna Seca - 35 laps
7. Daytona Oval - 70 laps
8. Fuji Speedway GT - 30 laps
9. Madrid Mini - 50 laps
10. Motegi Oval - 70 laps (If not Motegi, Drop the round off the calendar)
11. Suzuka East - 40 laps
12. Indy Oval - 80 laps

The issue with Autumn Ring is it's nothing like a short track, it's a road course. Madrid is like a narrow, shorter version of Pocono. Lap times were under 50 seconds IIRC and it's a much more interesting track, T2 requires a lot of commitment.

Well, if Autumn Ring Mini is choosen and we do get Motegi I think that would be our start at a Short Track Program. If we don't get Motegi and we do Madrid Mini then I would leave it classified as a Road Course until we have a Short Track Program carved out right.

But going over your list, it's quite even with:

5 Super Speedways(Oval) / 5-6 Road Courses (depending on Motegi) / 0-2 Short Tracks (depending on Motegi).

I do like this but however I thought we were going in favor of Ovals over Road Courses. And then I want to add (convince Droptop and Chqr) a Short Track Program.

Tom, could you take this into consideration and re-write your list please? Since your list seems a little Road Course heavy....

 

[Niop]

I think the season should be 10 races long, and include Daytona once, SSRX once, Indy twice, Motegi twice, Monza, HSR, Madrid mini, and Autumn Ring mini. Don't care about the order.

Autumn ring mini lap times are around 36 seconds if I remember correctly. I like the track, but I think it's a turn off to a lot of people due to the lack of grip. It's a very slick track.

 

[kenkwilinski]

I think the season should be 10 races long, and include Daytona once, SSRX once, Indy twice, Motegi twice, Monza, HSR, Madrid mini, and Autumn Ring mini. Don't care about the order.

This I do like 👍 it gets right the point and jumps right into introducing a Short Track Program.
That's : 4 Super Speedways / 4 Short Tracks / 2 Road Courses

I think that's looking like a more typical Nationwide Schedule.

It's a very slick track.

I have heard that excuse for Monza & Suzuka as well......I think if the track is slick then you will have to learn to adjust to it as you do for everything else we encounter from track to track whether if it's for tire wear, drafting or strategy. Every track has its obsticles and some kind of element that makes it a Challenge.

 

[rustyMercedes]

what about created ovals? Like a gokart short track. Or have those not been successful in the past?

 

[cgr-10]

Looks good but i'm still wondering how Autumn Ring can be classified as a 'Short track' if you're talking about it in an oval sense. It's a short road course with multiple turns. A short track is 3-4 turns, less than 1.5 miles and resembles an oval.

Two-three Motegi races accounts for the vast array of intermediate tracks we see in NASCAR.

Regardless, in my opinion as long as Laguna Seca and Madrid get on there it will be a nice schedule.

 

[Niop]

I'm not really a fan of Laguna Seca for whatever reason. Although I haven't ever taken a NASCAR car around there yet, so that could change.

For Autumn ring mini, the testing done there was actually with SC specs, so the grip shouldn't be an issue anyways.

I also forgot Suzuka East, that's got to be in there somewhere. Maybe add it and make it 11 races. And allow one dropped result for the season.

 

[Knelly]

Y'all forgetting SSR5 Clubman. Short track, night racing, long straight, and had a very good test there.

I really think this should be in somewhere, if we are talking about these kind of circuits.

 

[kenkwilinski]

Looks good but i'm still wondering how Autumn Ring can be classified as a 'Short track' if you're talking about it in an oval sense. It's a short road course with multiple turns. A short track is 3-4 turns, less than 1.5 miles and resembles an oval.

Well clearly our two definitions of a short track are different. I am using Short Track loosely which would cover any road course that falls under my defintion and of course your defintion which is what it clearly is. In real life, I would say you nailed it and are correct. But since we have a limited selection I am saying Autumn Ring Mini would be a Short Track because of its length and lap times.

And yes I do agree it's a Road Course as well. Another track that could be debated as so would be High Speed Ring since it's an Oval with a slow esse section. But high speed ring is a road course even though it's has SuperSpeedway length 2.49mi, banking and drivability like a SuperSpeedway. Even though we could argue those points we leave it as a Road Course. If we had it our way entirely I would agree with this....

what about created ovals? Like a gokart short track. Or have those not been successful in the past?

as it has the clear defintion but lacks a pit lane which denies any kind of strategy which plays a big part in this series. And Rusty no pit lane, thats why not considered.

Two-three Motegi races accounts for the vast array of intermediate tracks we see in NASCAR.

This I do like. I think until we can level the series out more with a Short Track Program then we could get into an Intermediate Program if GT5's future DLC allows us to do so. NASCAR defines the Intermediate Program as the 1-1/2mi ovals. What is the length of Motegi? Not relevent now but good to know to help shape future series in this league.

Regardless, in my opinion as long as Laguna Seca and Madrid get on there it will be a nice schedule.

I like Laguna but think Fuji may be a better fit for this series since its mostly flat out and we do need more Ovals than Road Courses. And of course I would like to see Madrid if we could get a good balance on the schedule as I have been saying.

I think we need to mold this more into a Minor League and dump some Superspeedway Races and substitute with some short tracks.

 

[kenkwilinski]

Y'all forgetting SSR5 Clubman. Short track, night racing, long straight, and had a very good test there.

I really think this should be in somewhere, if we are talking about these kind of circuits.

But whats the lap time? If its over 50sec (1-2min range ideally) then its more or less a Road Course, like Suzuka East is. I'm all for this track if it has comparable short track lap times.

 

[Knelly]

Can't recall but approx that of AR Mini.

 

[cgr-10]

I think we need to mold this more into a Minor League and dump some Superspeedway Races and substitute with some short tracks.

This do agree with. One each for the three superspeedways (maybe an extra for Daytona), 2-3 intermediate Motegi races and the real life definition you mentioned of a 'short track', Madrid mini.

That's 7-8 rounds leaving you with space for 3-4 road courses. These would be chosen from Laguna, Clubman, Autumn mini, Fuji, Monza and HSR most probably.

 

[kenkwilinski]

This do agree with. One each for the three superspeedways (maybe an extra for Daytona), 2-3 intermediate Motegi races and the real life definition you mentioned of a 'short track', Madrid mini.

That's 7-8 rounds leaving you with space for 3-4 road courses. These would be chosen from Laguna, Clubman, Autumn mini, Fuji, Monza and HSR most probably.

Well in order for us all to come to an agreement on schedule that Droptop and Chqr approve of we need to get our term of "Short Track" defined in here. So everyone in this series can dish out their ideas as well.

So this question is what we have to come to an agreement on:

A.) Short Track - small course, road or oval with lap times faster than Daytona SuperSpeedway

B.) Short Track - Oval track no greater than 1-1/2mi distance

If defined by B. That concludes Road Courses range in a wide variety from anywhere as small as 1/2mi to 10mi despite lap times. Actually any length/lap time would work. And then Ovals would be sub-categorized into SuperSpeedway and Short Track.

Or if defined by A. That concludes Road Courses need to have laptimes greater than a SuperSpeedway. And Short Tracks would include Ovals of 1-1/2mi or less and incl road courses with lap times faster than a SuperSpeedway. This would leave the Oval category untouched and could be renamed SuperSpeedway.

Thoughts?